Would you vote for a third party or independent if they could win?

[Ray From Cleveland]

t will probably take a few election cycles, but if people start insisting on voting for "good" instead of "can win" or "lesser evil from major party", then eventually, we will either have a third party that can win, or we will see a change in how the major parties approach elections. Right now, all we do is encourage them to believe they can keep on with "same old, same old", because they know that when it comes down to Election Day, we can be buffaloed into falling in line with them.

Not much of a choice really. Like many Americans, I don't vote for my candidate because my candidate is great, I vote to keep the worst candidate out. Throwing my vote away on anybody outside of the two parties is just a wasted effort. It's like trying to push a car down the road with four flat tires.

And that attitude right there is why you never have any choices except "This pile of shit" and "that bucket of slime". Why the hell should the politicians and pundits and people in power ever listen to you, when you telegraph to them every election that you can be stampeded into abandoning the things you claim to care about?

As long as you insist that any vote that isn't cast for one of the Big Two is "wasted", then that will always be the case.

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. I say the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over because you can't recognize that it's the same thing.

I'm not voting for Trump this year--I'm voting to keep Hillary out. The last two elections, I voted to keep DumBama out.

You know why we get shady con artists looking to line their own pockets every election, instead of potential statesmen and leaders? Because we cast our vote for every reason under the damned sun EXCEPT quality, principles, and conscience.

As long as you consider those things to be luxuries, or even liabilities, that must be set aside "just this one more time", and once we win, THEN we'll get to care about them, they will ALWAYS be luxuries to be pursued "someday", and someday never comes.

The only way we ever stand a chance at a third or fourth party is if both major parties piss off their electorate in the same year. This is the closest they have ever come to doing that this election cycle. So maybe we are on the right path.

Yeah, now if we could pull our heads out of our asses long enough to figure out that "same shit, different package" isn't progress, we might really have something.

And that attitude right there is why you never have any choices except "This pile of shit" and "that bucket of slime". Why the hell should the politicians and pundits and people in power ever listen to you, when you telegraph to them every election that you can be stampeded into abandoning the things you claim to care about?

As long as you insist that any vote that isn't cast for one of the Big Two is "wasted", then that will always be the case.

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. I say the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over because you can't recognize that it's the same thing.

No, it's not the same thing. If McCain won the first election against DumBama, we wouldn't have Commie Care. We wouldn't be 19 trillion in debt. Iraq would still be under US and Iraqi control instead of ISIS. Benghazi would have never happened and if it did, McCain would have made efforts to help the poor souls that died in the battle.

There is a lot of difference, just not a striking difference as you would like to see it.

You know why we get shady con artists looking to line their own pockets every election, instead of potential statesmen and leaders? Because we cast our vote for every reason under the damned sun EXCEPT quality, principles, and conscience.

No, we get shady people because of our media.

Who wants to go through the hell candidates go through just to run for office? They will attack you, attack your family, attack your associates.......

Donald Trump is a fine example of this. They went back decades to find women he dated to trash the guy. With George Bush, they went back 20 years to find a DUI that he resolved with authorities. Romney? They went all the way back to his high school years to find a story about a kid he played a prank on.

What descent person would want to go through all that? So the good people stay the hell out of politics.

Yeah, now if we could pull our heads out of our asses long enough to figure out that "same shit, different package" isn't progress, we might really have something.

Yes we might, but it's impossible to get everybody (or even most people) to think the same way. If you think that's ever going to happen in a country as large as ours, then you are living in fantasy land and not reality.

In reality, you have to play the cards you are dealt. No matter how bad of a hand you may have, you throw away the worst cards in effort to make a shitty hand a not as shitty of a hand. If you throw all your cards in, you stand no chance at winning anything. You can't make a good hand that way.

During the housing bubble our suburb went to hell. With no money down and no credit checks, the lowlifes from the inner-city moved here and along with them came the crime.

I didn't experience much of a problem because I have over a dozen motion detector lights on my property. I monitored my police scanner nightly. If there was ever a problem in my area, I kept focus on what was going on outside.

I told my councilman about my efforts and expressed to him that we need to encourage everybody to do the same things I have done. We need to fight crime together because we don't have a cop on every street. Do you think I was able to get anybody to take the same steps as I did?

Of course not. There is a solution to every problem, but you can't get everybody involved to produce those solutions. If we could do that, terrorism would be a thing of the past because all nations would join together to wipe terrorism off the face of the earth.

 

[georgephillip]

Throwing the lesser evil dilemma and lack of winning independent/third party candidates out the window for a second, would you even want to vote for someone outside of the reigning parties if they matched your views more?

Many voters in both major parties will be casting ballots AGAINST the candidate they perceive as the greater evil next November. In fact, both Trump and Clinton are two sides of the same golden, corporate coin. If millions of voters choose between Green or Libertarian instead of Wall Street or Real Estate, the results could change US politics forever.

It will probably take a few election cycles, but if people start insisting on voting for "good" instead of "can win" or "lesser evil from major party", then eventually, we will either have a third party that can win, or we will see a change in how the major parties approach elections. Right now, all we do is encourage them to believe they can keep on with "same old, same old", because they know that when it comes down to Election Day, we can be buffaloed into falling in line with them.

I can't escape the belief 90% of US voters would be better represented at the federal level next January if whichever presidential candidate of the Greens and Libertarians who won the popular vote served as President with the losing party's presidential candidate serving as VP.

Until recently, I've concentrated on congressional races by trying to convince voters to chose a third party alternative for House and Senate races.

That doesn't work in my state anymore since I will have two Democrats to "choose" from on my ballot, and, I suspect, if I was voting in the district I grew up in (about 70 miles to the east), I would have two Republicans to select from.

Republicans AND Democrats have outlived their usefulness, imho.

 

[Divine Wind]

I have voted third party as many times as I have voted for the main parties. I do not subscribe to the keeping the worst person out is a win theory.

Agreed. Same here. I'm voting Libertarian this year. Voting for the "lesser of two evils" is not working.

When you vote for "the lesser of two evils", not only do you still wind up with evil, but the NEXT time, both the evils you get to choose from are even worse than last time.

Agreed. Some people choose not to vote at all, but I disagree with them. There are plenty of things to vote for on ballots besides political candidates. Still, by voting for a third party, even when I know they probably won't win, it sends a message to the winner that I didn't vote for them.

It also adds to the vote count and percentages. If there are 4 people voting and 1 chooses to not vote while 2 vote for candidate A and the other candidate B, the voting stats are 66% Candidate A, 33% Candidate B. If that fourth person voted for Candidate C, then the stats would be 50% Candidate A, 25% Candidate B and 25% Candidate C.

This sends a more accurate message to political parties, donors and voters than someone who sits home and plays with themselves.

 

[Divine Wind]

I think that's a big part of the problem with the Libertarians: they aren't exactly awash in serious candidate material.

Agreed, but as more people vote for them, especially in smaller, local elections, better candidates will crop up.

Why did Bernie run as a Democrat? Why did Rand and Trump run as Republicans? Clearly none of them are staunch supporters of the party line. They simply chose that party for recognition reasons.

The more Libertarian candidates who win office on the local and state level, the more likely they'll win on the national level. It could take a few more decades to put a Libertarian President in the White House, but that doesn't stop the LP from electing State reps and even governors now.

 

[JoeB131]

No, it's not the same thing. If McCain won the first election against DumBama, we wouldn't have Commie Care. We wouldn't be 19 trillion in debt. Iraq would still be under US and Iraqi control instead of ISIS. Benghazi would have never happened and if it did, McCain would have made efforts to help the poor souls that died in the battle.

There is a lot of difference, just not a striking difference as you would like to see it.

Or-

We might be in a war with IRan with tens of thousands of Americans dying, we might be facing an even deeper recession because McCain didn't take the actions Obama took. We probably would still be 19 Trillion in debt, though. McCain wasn't going to cut spending or raise taxes.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Or-

We might be in a war with IRan with tens of thousands of Americans dying, we might be facing an even deeper recession because McCain didn't take the actions Obama took. We probably would still be 19 Trillion in debt, though. McCain wasn't going to cut spending or raise taxes.

No, because DumBama's efforts did nothing for our economy. His idiotic healthcare policy made it worse for many people including myself. That means people that lost their employer sponsored healthcare insurance like I did now have to pay out of pocket with after tax money to get the same thing (or less) than they had before. That means a lot less money in circulation.

Just between the Pork Bill and Commie Care alone, that's 2 trillion right there McCain would have never spent.

 

[Kristian]

Third and fourth portions with Libertainan and Independent with Johnson and Stein.

 

[Kristian]

Just between the Pork Bill and Commie Care alone, that's 2 trillion right there McCain would have never spent.

 

[aaronleland]

Write in Carl Miller. Don't look him up. I just invented that name.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Throwing the lesser evil dilemma and lack of winning independent/third party candidates out the window for a second, would you even want to vote for someone outside of the reigning parties if they matched your views more?

Yes my problem is so far I have found no third party candidate who really matches my views we might agree on one or two things but it seems to me third party candidates are still pretty much out on the fringe.

At this point, I would vote for my high school Civics teacher over the two major candidates. At least he was a serious adult who understood how government works and should work. Unfortunately, high school was a long time ago, and he's probably dead.

If he's still alive I will consider him hell at this point I would consider my yellow lab over the two current chuckleheads.

What does it say about our country that our Presidential candidates look like the entire nation got drunk and voted as a fraternity prank?

 

[JoeB131]

No, because DumBama's efforts did nothing for our economy. His idiotic healthcare policy made it worse for many people including myself. That means people that lost their employer sponsored healthcare insurance like I did now have to pay out of pocket with after tax money to get the same thing (or less) than they had before. That means a lot less money in circulation.

Just between the Pork Bill and Commie Care alone, that's 2 trillion right there McCain would have never spent.

I'm not sure why you are still blaming Obama for your employer screwing you. Or your inability to get a job that offers insurance. Shit, I got a job that has good insurance, dude.

I am sure McCain's Iran War would have cost more than the Stimulus. As for ObamaCare, i t's brought health care spending under control, so, no, not so much.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm not sure why you are still blaming Obama for your employer screwing you. Or your inability to get a job that offers insurance. Shit, I got a job that has good insurance, dude.

I am sure McCain's Iran War would have cost more than the Stimulus. As for ObamaCare, i t's brought health care spending under control, so, no, not so much.

It has? So where are you getting your information from? By all reports thus far, insurance is going up, up, up. Blue Cross/ Blue Shield just abandoned Commie Care because of cost. They couldn't' afford to stay in it. They follow a line of many other health insurance providers.

Why am I blaming DumBama? Because without Commie Care, employers were forced to provide insurance due to competition of other companies. Now that the monkey wrench is thrown into the system, many employers are dropping the benefit so if you leave your job that has no insurance, you may end up at another employer that will follow suit.

Without Commie Care, I and millions of others would still have our insurance today.