Would Muslims be safer and happier in the USA if we limit their numbers to NMT 2% of our population?

[Mojo2]

Islam does not mean "submission." It means "submission to God." Which might seem a trivial difference but isn't.

So...What legal precedence are we imagining where we get to arbitraily choose how much of what religion can exist in the US? This sounds like something cooked up as a plot device in "V for Vendetta"

What method, tactic or strategy do you favor in protecting America from Jihadists?

 

[Machaut]

The Bill of Rights was not written to apply to Muslims.

It was written only for the Christians who were fleeing persecution from the British Throne.

Sorry to dredge this up after so long, but this statement seems rather shocking. Are you saying that the entire Bill of Rights doesn't apply to Anglicans? If so, what exactly is your basis for this assertion?

 

[hipeter924]

Islam does a good enough job keeping its numbers down, through the violence and bigotry of its followers. If you want to see Shia Islam visit Iran, want to see Sunni Islam visit Saudi Arabia, both are awful places to live - unless you like being a slave without personal freedom. What's odd is that many Muslims flee the Islamic world, only to attack western society when they get there. Surely if an Islamic theocracy is such a paradise why leave it?

 

[MDiver]

Well, one thing that would diminish some of the Muslim population increase would be to have our federal government, end all immigration, regardless of what nation you come from or, what religious belief you hold or do not have.
Increasing numbers of our nation's rivers are used to the point where they don't even make it to the ocean any longer.
Increasing and lengthening droughts are putting pressure on communities trying to share water and thus the public is very concerned over this matter.
Ending immigration completely will slow down the drain on our nation's resources, as well as its water usage.
As for those already here, if Muslims walk into your store and complain that they see something that offends their religion, point them to the exit. Don't give in to their ideology.

 

[Mojo2]

Islam does not mean "submission." It means "submission to God." Which might seem a trivial difference but isn't.

So...What legal precedence are we imagining where we get to arbitraily choose how much of what religion can exist in the US? This sounds like something cooked up as a plot device in "V for Vendetta"

What method, tactic or strategy do you favor in protecting America from Jihadists?

*Crickets*

Oh well...

Changing subjects: I have nothing concrete to go on, but I sometimes wonder if Delta4Embassy will ever become a Jihadi.

 

[Mojo2]

Islam as a PERSONAL religious preference is one thing.

Islam as a set of laws and justice and government system competing against the laws and sovereignty of the USA should already be prohibited by OUR law.

so long as the two aren't in conflict, what's the problem? when they are in conflict, US law wins. every time. but then this isn't a serious concern, since in no way shape or form is it happening here.

How far does the US Bill of Rights extend? I wonder. Does it cover groups coming to the USA with reasonable expectation of helping to spawn and shelter anti-American home-grown terrorists?

if we have reason to believe that someone is coming here to encourage terrorism we have every right to deny them entrance.
you seem to believe that religion alone is evidence enough, and I would say that it is that sort of thinking that the first amendment is meant to protect against.

Then how do you propose we protect America from the time bombs that are sure to be set upon us if we reached Stage 2 or more?

What time bombs would those be?

Go to the page for "Five Stages of Islam."

Read Stages 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Now, how do you propose we protect America from the time bombs that are sure to be set upon us if we reach Stage 2?

why would we need to 'protect' America against any of that? do you see a scenario where the united states would allow groups to make laws that contradict, or ignore, us law? if that's not allowed the rest of the concerns are invalid.

I hope this answers your sincere question.

nope. your words. i don't have ten minutes to spend watching a youtube video trying to glean your point, if you have one, from it.

how do you suppose it would be allowed for a group within the united states to create their own court enforceable laws, separate and in contradiction of those of the united states?

We needn't suppose. The plan has already been created without my participation.


a short course, part 14
The Muslim Brotherhood’s
Strategic Plan


Here, we look at the contents of the secret Muslim Brotherhood strategic plan for North America, which the FBI uncovered in 2004. The plan explains how the Ikhwan seeks to extend shariah into the United States and Canada.

‘An Explanatory Memorandum’

The Muslim Brotherhood’s strategic plan for North America was a closely-held secret until the FBI discovered it during a 2004 raid of a house in Annandale, Virginia. Agents discovered a secret basement containing internal Ikhwan documents, including the strategic plan titled, “An Explanatory Memorandum: On the General Strategic Goal for the Group.”

The strategic plan was written by a member of the Board of Directors for the Muslim Brotherhood in North America and senior Hamas leader named Mohammed Akram, and was approved by the Brotherhood’s Shura Council and Organizational Conference in 1987.

The plan establishes the mission of the Muslim Brother in North America in this following passage:

“The process of settlement is a ‘Civilization-Jihadist Process’ with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and ’sabotaging’ its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all other religions.”


In other words, the Ikhwan’s strategy for destroying the United States is to get us, specifically our leadership, to do the bidding of the MB for them. The Muslim Brotherhood intends to conduct Civilization Jihad by co-opting our leadership into believing a counterfactual understanding of Islam and the nature of the Muslim Brotherhood, thereby coercing these leaders to enforce the MB narrative on their subordinates.

At the ground level, this means that when police officers, federal agents, military personnel, or any other Americans who have sworn an oath to protect and defend the Constitution challenge their leadership with facts, the latter is faced with a hard choice: admit a lack of understanding of the threat and that he or she has been duped, or the leader must suppress the facts and his subordinates in the interest of protecting his or her professional reputation.

Extensive anecdotal evidence obtained from law enforcement professionals, federal agents, and military service members suggests that there is considerable suppression of the facts about shariah and efforts by the Muslim Brotherhood and its allies to bring it to America. This behavior frequently impedes ongoing investigations and countervailing efforts.

For instance, police officers in a number of communities around the country have been pushed out of their Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) or counterterrorism positions by their chiefs or deputy chiefs for factually articulating that certain MB operatives working with their police leadership are, in fact, hostile to the United States and the police department in question. A similar phenomenon has also been evidenced within the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security and other federal, as well as state and local, entities. That is what is meant by “‘sabotaging’ Western Civilization by ‘their hands.”’

The Muslim Brotherhood’s ‘Phased Plan’

We know from, among other things, the Elbarasse trove of MB documents, that the goal of destroying Western Civilization from within is to be achieved by the Brotherhood in accordance with a “phased plan.”

The plan is a stepped process modeled directly after Sayyid Qutb’s Milestones and the shariah doctrine of progressive revelation. One such document is an undated paper entitled, “Phases of the World Underground Movement Plan.” It specifies the five phases of the Muslim Brotherhood Movement in North America.

They are described, together with comments about the Ikhwan’s progress in realizing each goal as follows:

“Phase One: Phase of discreet and secret establishment of leadership.

“Phase Two: Phase of gradual appearance on the public scene and exercising and utilizing various public activities (It greatly succeeded in implementing this stage). It also succeeded in achieving a great deal of its important goals, such as infiltrating various sectors of the Government. Gaining religious institutions and embracing senior scholars. Gaining public support and sympathy. Establishing a shadow government (secret) within the Government.

“Phase Three: Escalation phase, prior to conflict and confrontation with the rulers, through utilizing mass media. Currently in progress.

“Phase Four: Open public confrontation with the Government through exercising the political pressure approach. It is aggressively implementing the above-mentioned approach. Training on the use of weapons domestically and overseas in anticipation of zero-hour. It has noticeable activities in this regard.

“Phase Five: Seizing power to establish their Islamic Nation under which all parties and Islamic groups are united.”

This document offers a chilling operational insight into the mindset, planning, and vision of the Islamic movement in North America.

The Implementation of Shariah by the Muslim Brotherhood

The Elbarasse archives and close observation of the Brotherhood’s operations reveal the following as the most important of the techniques employed by the Ikhwan in America to achieve the seditious goals of its civilization jihad:

• Expanding the Muslim presence by birth rate, immigration, and refusal to assimilate;

• Occupying and expanding domination of physical spaces;

• Ensuring the “Muslim Community” knows and follows MB doctrine;

• Controlling the language we use in describing the enemy;

• Ensuring we do not study their doctrine (shariah);

• Co-opting key leadership;

• Forcing compliance with shariah at local levels;

• Fighting all counterterrorism efforts;

• Subverting religious organizations;

• Employing lawfare – the offensive use of lawsuits and threats of lawsuits;

• Claiming victimization / demanding accommodations;

• Condemning “slander” against Islam;

• Subverting the U.S. education system, in particular, infiltrating and dominating U.S. Middle East studies programs;

• Demanding the right to practice shariah in segregated Muslim enclaves;

• Demanding recognition of shariah in non-Muslim spheres;

• Confronting and denouncing Western society, laws, and traditions; and

• Demanding that shariah replace Western law. Note that many of the foregoing techniques entail, in one way or another, influencing and neutralizing the American government at all levels.

The next section, Part 15, is a case study of Muslim Brotherhood penetration of the United States government.


A short course 14 The Muslim Brotherhood s Strategic Plan Shariah the Threat to America​

 

[hipeter924]

Islam does not mean "submission." It means "submission to God." Which might seem a trivial difference but isn't.

So...What legal precedence are we imagining where we get to arbitraily choose how much of what religion can exist in the US? This sounds like something cooked up as a plot device in "V for Vendetta"

Submission to Allah, and the 'literal truth' of the Koran, which calls for the death of Jews and the subjugation and oppression of all non believers according to many clerics - often in the form of sharia law. Not to suggest that most Muslims follow a jihad mentality that can be formed from following mainstream Islamic beliefs - but it is telling when many terrorists are well-educated middle class Muslims like the hijackers on 9/11. Radical religion crosses all demographics of society.

I don't think that violent and essentially anti-democratic movements that seek to undermine the US constitution should be allowed to proliferate across the US, I would be just as alarmed if the Westboro Baptist Church gained as many members as radical Islamic movements now have in the US.

You bring up 'V for Vendetta' forgetting that the central message of that film, was that whenever too much power in placed in the hands of government, and a radical religious or political movement is allowed to proliferate - it destroys a country through the fear and submission of the population from the existence of that movement. Much as Islamic State is now doing in Syria and Iraq, the communists did to Russia, and the Nazis did to Germany.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to practice their faith, but movements holding signs calling for the 'death to the Jews', 'death to the USA', and advocating violence and intolerance are dangerous, as they were in earlier periods of history.

 

[Yarddog]

Would Muslims be safer and happier in the USA if we limit their numbers to NMT 2% of our population?

The Five Stages of Islam
By Richard Butrick

Forget the Five Pillars of Islam. It is the Five Stages of Islam that threaten the fundamental freedoms
of Western Democracy. Freedoms which include freedom of thought, expression, and association
and the crucial derived right of freedom of the press. We should never forget that "Islam" means
submission -- the opposite of self-determination and Enlightenment values.

Six years ago Dr. Peter Hammond published a remarkable book which included a statistical study of
the correlation between Muslim to non-Muslim population ratios and the transition from conciliatory
Islam to fascist Islam.

The stages are the same in 2011 but the demographics have changed to show an alarming progression. Many European nations and the U.S. are on the cusp of moving to a higher
bracket.

The demographics change but the story is the same.

First comes the taqiyya and the kitman; then comes the Sword of Islam.

Imam Rauf, the Ground Zero Mosque promoter, is the current master of taqiyya. He has gulled everyone from Bloomberg to Maureen Dowd of the NYT -- who fanaticizes over male Muslims. Expect doppelgangers of Khomeini for stage 5 and Islamic PEACE at last.

Stage 1. Establish a Beachhead

Population density à 2% (US, Australia, Canada).

Muslims are conciliatory, deferential but request harmless special treatment (foot bath facilities,
removal/elimination of that which is offensive to delicate Muslim sensibilities - like walking dogs
near Mosques).

Stage 2. Establish Outposts

Population density 2% - 5% (UK, Germany, Denmark).

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with
major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. A recent example is that of Sheikh Abdullah
el-Faisal who is back in Jamaica after being kicked out of the UK. Sound harmless? Read on:

The dispatch, dated February 2010, warns that that Jamaica could be fertile ground for
jihadists because of its underground drug economy, marginalized youth, insufficient
security and gang networks in U.S. and British prisons.

Stage 3. Establish Sectional Control of Major Cities.

Population density 5% - 10% (France, Sweden, Netherlands).

First comes the demand for halal food in supermarkets, and the blocking of streets for prayers; then
comes the demand for self rule (within their ghettos) under Sharia. When Muslims approach 10% of
the population the demands turn to lawlessness. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any
criticism of Islam results ...

Continued at link.

Articles The Five Stages of Islam

I have little problem with the numbers of Muslims in America, currently.

This number, however, will change with an increase in the numbers of Muslims allowed in through immigration.

So, why not set a limit to prevent Muslim populations in America from reaching the Stage Two level?

They would be happier and be treated better.

​

Exactly what part of that is over your head, Adolf?

Its kind of hard to say you want to limit someone, right i get that , however, so lets say Muslims in the US are afforded those rights on that document. OK ,then if that is the case they should NOT be allowed to live in their enclaves under Sharia Law as they do in Europe, and have tried to ask for here already. If they want to live under Sharia Law then they dont get the constitution as well, screw all that. That's called working theh system and using our own laws against us. Let them come and live here peacefully under OUR laws. If they cant do that they got no business being here. And if you read the last line on the above document where it talks about grievances, .... you might put unchecked immigration on the grievance list, there might be a lot of Americans willing to sign that.

 

[Indofred]

The Bill of Rights was not written to apply to Muslims.

What a fucking moron.

 

[themirrorthief]

Islam does not mean "submission." It means "submission to God." Which might seem a trivial difference but isn't.

So...What legal precedence are we imagining where we get to arbitraily choose how much of what religion can exist in the US? This sounds like something cooked up as a plot device in "V for Vendetta"

Submission to Allah, and the 'literal truth' of the Koran, which calls for the death of Jews and the subjugation and oppression of all non believers according to many clerics - often in the form of sharia law. Not to suggest that most Muslims follow a jihad mentality that can be formed from following mainstream Islamic beliefs - but it is telling when many terrorists are well-educated middle class Muslims like the hijackers on 9/11. Radical religion crosses all demographics of society.

I don't think that violent and essentially anti-democratic movements that seek to undermine the US constitution should be allowed to proliferate across the US, I would be just as alarmed if the Westboro Baptist Church gained as many members as radical Islamic movements now have in the US.

You bring up 'V for Vendetta' forgetting that the central message of that film, was that whenever too much power in placed in the hands of government, and a radical religious or political movement is allowed to proliferate - it destroys a country through the fear and submission of the population from the existence of that movement. Much as Islamic State is now doing in Syria and Iraq, the communists did to Russia, and the Nazis did to Germany.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to practice their faith, but movements holding signs calling for the 'death to the Jews', 'death to the USA', and advocating violence and intolerance are dangerous, as they were in earlier periods of history.

allah calls for the death of jews but allows large numbers of muslims to get bumped off in the process