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Actually, they have to have auxiliary generators in case the nukes have to go offline or doing an emergency, as happened at Fukushima. And those generators don't run off natural gas. They run off of diesel, which is even dirtier. And of course, solar plants don't produce radioactive waste, which is deadly for thousands of years.
And those generators only kick on in an emergency, Ivanpah's are running full time.
If the only way you people can make an argument is to lie about the facts, you've already lost your argument. It is clear that those boilers are NOT running full time. So what do you think you have to gain from lying about it?
Ivanpah Solar Plant Already Irrelevent - Business Insider
If solar thermal sounds unnecessarily complicated, you're right. Solar photovoltaic has seen explosive growth in the past few years thanks to plummeting material costs, state incentives, and eco-conscious homebuyers putting up panels on their roofs. But solar thermal growth has stalled, and is expected to continue to do so. Ivanpah cost $2.2 billion. Warren Buffett paid the same amount for the world's largest photovoltaic plant just up the road outside Bakersfield. That plant will generate 1.5-times as much power as Ivanpah.
As the New York Times' Diane Cardwell and Matt Wald wrote Friday, Ivanpah probably represents an end, not a beginning.
"When BrightSource and other companies asked [investor] NRG to invest in a second thermal project, said David Crane, NRGs chief, he responded: 'Weve got $300 million invested in Ivanpah let me see that work for a few months and then well decide whether we want to be involved in more.' "
And here's what Lux Energy analyst Matthew Feinstein told them:
I dont think that were going to see large-scale solar thermal plants popping up, five at a time, every year in the U.S. in the long-term its just not the way its going to work... Companies that are supplying these systems have questionable futures. Theres other prospects for renewables and for solar that look a lot better than this particular solution.
It's not that Ivanpah itself won't be cost-effective. BrightSource locked in a 20-year power purchase agreement with local utilities that includes fixed pricing, and the vast majority of costs were borne up front, according to Shayle Kann, director of GTM Research. That means the Energy Department, which lent the project $1.6 billion, and Google, which put up $168 million, will likely see a decent return.
"So it's not so much an issue for Ivanpah as it is for any future solar thermal project," he told us in an email.
But it's a sign of how fast renewable energy technology is moving these days.
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Ivanpah will continue to generate electricity using a tiny fraction of the natural gas that a fully gas-fired plant of the same capacity would produce. Given the 20 year pricing arrangement, it will not lose any money for its investors and there will be no cost surprises for its customers. But, as this article and many others note, PV has surpassed solar thermal in cost/kwh and, for the moment, is the future. We're going to see more and more and more rooftop PV installations. The world is moving towards renewable, non-polluting, zero carbon footprint, alternative energy solutions. The era of the unfettered growth of fossil fuel consumption is at an end.
How well Ivanpah or photovoltaics or any other energy supply works is completely immaterial to the truth of the assertion that human GHG emissions and deforestation are the primary cause of the warming the planet has experienced over the last 150 years. That warming presents a complex set of threats to human infrastructure, drinking water supplies and crop productivity. We need to act dramatically to reduce those emission and we need to act now.
The permit is asking permission to start them up at any time of day or night. It is not asking permission to turn Ivanpah into a gas-fired plant.
Actually, they have to have auxiliary generators in case the nukes have to go offline or doing an emergency, as happened at Fukushima. And those generators don't run off natural gas. They run off of diesel, which is even dirtier. And of course, solar plants don't produce radioactive waste, which is deadly for thousands of years.
And those generators only kick on in an emergency, Ivanpah's are running full time.
If the only way you people can make an argument is to lie about the facts, you've already lost your argument. It is clear that those boilers are NOT running full time. So what do you think you have to gain from lying about it?
since it doesn't burn as much a an all natural gas plant, that makes it ok.
Wanna know what doesn't need any gas ever?
nuclear
nuclear is the awesomest source out there
Actually, they have to have auxiliary generators in case the nukes have to go offline or doing an emergency, as happened at Fukushima. And those generators don't run off natural gas. They run off of diesel, which is even dirtier. And of course, solar plants don't produce radioactive waste, which is deadly for thousands of years.
Ivanpah, in serious trouble, is battling to burn trillions of cubic feet of Natural Gas.
Owners Google and Brightsource made Emergency requests to change the rules to allow Solar to run on Natural Gas.
Lied to again we are, by the Government, by Obama and Energy Secretary Moniz.
Ivanpah is non-operational, Ivanpah wants to run a natural gas boiler to produce electricity.
The World's Largest Solar Plant is a lie, everything about Solar is a lie.
Ivanpah Solar Plant Owners Want To Burn a Lot More Natural Gas | Concentrating Solar | ReWire | KCET
The project's managers, BrightSource Energy and NRG Energy, originally estimated that the plant's main auxiliary boilers would need to run for an hour a day, on average, to allow the plant to capture solar energy efficiently. But after a few months of operation, they're now saying they need to burn more gas, with the boilers running an average of five hours a day.
To that end, the companies have asked the California Energy Commission (CEC) to change the project's license to allow Ivanpah to burn more than 1.5 billion cubic feet of gas a year, and the plant's operators say that change won't have any environmental impact.
Billions of dollars in Research and Development lost, as well as Billions in concrete, cement, steel, fiberglass, silica, computers, thousands of mirrors, miles of land, dead turtles, birds, an increase in the use of water, all for another failed SCAM, portrayed on us, by Al Gore, Bill Clinton, and all of Congress, Republicans and Democrats.
I should go back and quote everyone who stated Ivanpah was a Solar Plant, the only part working is the part that is pure fossil fuel.
Ivanpah, in serious trouble, is battling to burn trillions of cubic feet of Natural Gas.
Owners Google and Brightsource made Emergency requests to change the rules to allow Solar to run on Natural Gas.
Lied to again we are, by the Government, by Obama and Energy Secretary Moniz.
Ivanpah is non-operational, Ivanpah wants to run a natural gas boiler to produce electricity.
The World's Largest Solar Plant is a lie, everything about Solar is a lie.
Ivanpah Solar Plant Owners Want To Burn a Lot More Natural Gas | Concentrating Solar | ReWire | KCET
The project's managers, BrightSource Energy and NRG Energy, originally estimated that the plant's main auxiliary boilers would need to run for an hour a day, on average, to allow the plant to capture solar energy efficiently. But after a few months of operation, they're now saying they need to burn more gas, with the boilers running an average of five hours a day.
To that end, the companies have asked the California Energy Commission (CEC) to change the project's license to allow Ivanpah to burn more than 1.5 billion cubic feet of gas a year, and the plant's operators say that change won't have any environmental impact.
Billions of dollars in Research and Development lost, as well as Billions in concrete, cement, steel, fiberglass, silica, computers, thousands of mirrors, miles of land, dead turtles, birds, an increase in the use of water, all for another failed SCAM, portrayed on us, by Al Gore, Bill Clinton, and all of Congress, Republicans and Democrats.
I should go back and quote everyone who stated Ivanpah was a Solar Plant, the only part working is the part that is pure fossil fuel.
What were the lies told by the Government, by Obama and Energy Secretary Moniz about this plant?
"The Ivanpah project is a shining example of how America is becoming a world leader in solar energy," Moniz says, in a statement. As the president made clear in the State of the Union, we must continue to move toward a cleaner energy economy, and this project shows that building a clean energy economy creates jobs, curbs greenhouse gas emissions, and fosters American innovation."
Ivanpah, in serious trouble, is battling to burn trillions of cubic feet of Natural Gas.
Owners Google and Brightsource made Emergency requests to change the rules to allow Solar to run on Natural Gas.
Lied to again we are, by the Government, by Obama and Energy Secretary Moniz.
Ivanpah is non-operational, Ivanpah wants to run a natural gas boiler to produce electricity.
The World's Largest Solar Plant is a lie, everything about Solar is a lie.
Ivanpah Solar Plant Owners Want To Burn a Lot More Natural Gas | Concentrating Solar | ReWire | KCET
Billions of dollars in Research and Development lost, as well as Billions in concrete, cement, steel, fiberglass, silica, computers, thousands of mirrors, miles of land, dead turtles, birds, an increase in the use of water, all for another failed SCAM, portrayed on us, by Al Gore, Bill Clinton, and all of Congress, Republicans and Democrats.
I should go back and quote everyone who stated Ivanpah was a Solar Plant, the only part working is the part that is pure fossil fuel.
What were the lies told by the Government, by Obama and Energy Secretary Moniz about this plant?
February 13th Energy Secretary Moniz dedicated Ivanpah as a fully operational Solar Power Plant while at the same time the plant was broken or unable to operate as designed/marketed.
SolarIndustryMag.com: Ivanpah Dedicated With All Three CSP Units Now Online
"The Ivanpah project is a shining example of how America is becoming a world leader in solar energy," Moniz says, in a statement. “As the president made clear in the State of the Union, we must continue to move toward a cleaner energy economy, and this project shows that building a clean energy economy creates jobs, curbs greenhouse gas emissions, and fosters American innovation."
Energy Secretary Moniz states we are becoming a world leader in Solar Energy which is easy when in all other countries Solar Power has failed, further it takes a world leader in created debt and taxing to pay for Solar Power.
The President states or sells Solar Energy as clean yet the plant he touts burns Natural Gas night and day, further the World's Largest Solar Plant used the world's largest amount of fossil fuels to manufacture the world's largest amount of mirrors covering the world's largest amount of land producing a minuscule, insignificant amount of electricity.
I can not believe how the AGW alarmists are not concerned that the solution they propose literally kills the earth.
What were the lies told by the Government, by Obama and Energy Secretary Moniz about this plant?
February 13th Energy Secretary Moniz dedicated Ivanpah as a fully operational Solar Power Plant while at the same time the plant was broken or unable to operate as designed/marketed.
SolarIndustryMag.com: Ivanpah Dedicated With All Three CSP Units Now Online
"The Ivanpah project is a shining example of how America is becoming a world leader in solar energy," Moniz says, in a statement. “As the president made clear in the State of the Union, we must continue to move toward a cleaner energy economy, and this project shows that building a clean energy economy creates jobs, curbs greenhouse gas emissions, and fosters American innovation."
Energy Secretary Moniz states we are becoming a world leader in Solar Energy which is easy when in all other countries Solar Power has failed, further it takes a world leader in created debt and taxing to pay for Solar Power.
The President states or sells Solar Energy as clean yet the plant he touts burns Natural Gas night and day, further the World's Largest Solar Plant used the world's largest amount of fossil fuels to manufacture the world's largest amount of mirrors covering the world's largest amount of land producing a minuscule, insignificant amount of electricity.
I can not believe how the AGW alarmists are not concerned that the solution they propose literally kills the earth.
Excepting that it may need more gas than originally intended...it is operating as designed and marketed.
Using natural gas as a pre-heat in the morning and when there is no sun was always the design intent.
I wonder how much natural gas a fully gas-fired plant of equivalent output would burn - and whether it would be more or less than this design?
What were the lies told by the Government, by Obama and Energy Secretary Moniz about this plant?
February 13th Energy Secretary Moniz dedicated Ivanpah as a fully operational Solar Power Plant while at the same time the plant was broken or unable to operate as designed/marketed.
SolarIndustryMag.com: Ivanpah Dedicated With All Three CSP Units Now Online
"The Ivanpah project is a shining example of how America is becoming a world leader in solar energy," Moniz says, in a statement. As the president made clear in the State of the Union, we must continue to move toward a cleaner energy economy, and this project shows that building a clean energy economy creates jobs, curbs greenhouse gas emissions, and fosters American innovation."
Energy Secretary Moniz states we are becoming a world leader in Solar Energy which is easy when in all other countries Solar Power has failed, further it takes a world leader in created debt and taxing to pay for Solar Power.
The President states or sells Solar Energy as clean yet the plant he touts burns Natural Gas night and day, further the World's Largest Solar Plant used the world's largest amount of fossil fuels to manufacture the world's largest amount of mirrors covering the world's largest amount of land producing a minuscule, insignificant amount of electricity.
I can not believe how the AGW alarmists are not concerned that the solution they propose literally kills the earth.
Excepting that it may need more gas than originally intended...it is operating as designed and marketed.
Using natural gas as a pre-heat in the morning and when there is no sun was always the design intent.
I wonder how much natural gas a fully gas-fired plant of equivalent output would burn - and whether it would be more or less than this design?
since it doesn't burn as much a an all natural gas plant, that makes it ok.
Wanna know what doesn't need any gas ever?
nuclear
nuclear is the awesomest source out there
Actually, they have to have auxiliary generators in case the nukes have to go offline or doing an emergency, as happened at Fukushima. And those generators don't run off natural gas. They run off of diesel, which is even dirtier. And of course, solar plants don't produce radioactive waste, which is deadly for thousands of years.
Yet the process of making everything having to do with solar requires another energy source, and being that you have to manufacture a 100,000xs more material Solar ends up contributing more radioactivity to the environment then lets say, nuclear power.
Actually, they have to have auxiliary generators in case the nukes have to go offline or doing an emergency, as happened at Fukushima. And those generators don't run off natural gas. They run off of diesel, which is even dirtier. And of course, solar plants don't produce radioactive waste, which is deadly for thousands of years.
Yet the process of making everything having to do with solar requires another energy source, and being that you have to manufacture a 100,000xs more material Solar ends up contributing more radioactivity to the environment then lets say, nuclear power.
Oh really? And you have the data to back up that assertion, right?
Yet the process of making everything having to do with solar requires another energy source, and being that you have to manufacture a 100,000xs more material Solar ends up contributing more radioactivity to the environment then lets say, nuclear power.
Oh really? And you have the data to back up that assertion, right?
Yes. Really. Further it is a fact.
Oh. And I do not get to play by your rules where theory and assertion gets to stand as a valid point until somebody finds the proof that your agw theory or your assertions in regards to clean green renewable energy are found as false.
Again, the world's largest solar power plant burns up the world's largest amount fossil fuel in the construction.
Do I need to draw a picture or will argue that green energy grows on magic trees
No thanks? A hypocrite you are. I have asked twice of you to provide data and you refuse.Oh really? And you have the data to back up that assertion, right?
Yes. Really. Further it is a fact.
Oh. And I do not get to play by your rules where theory and assertion gets to stand as a valid point until somebody finds the proof that your agw theory or your assertions in regards to clean green renewable energy are found as false.
Again, the world's largest solar power plant burns up the world's largest amount fossil fuel in the construction.
Do I need to draw a picture or will argue that green energy grows on magic trees
No thanks. Just posting the data that I requested would suffice. Have anything like that?
February 13th Energy Secretary Moniz dedicated Ivanpah as a fully operational Solar Power Plant while at the same time the plant was broken or unable to operate as designed/marketed.
SolarIndustryMag.com: Ivanpah Dedicated With All Three CSP Units Now Online
Energy Secretary Moniz states we are becoming a world leader in Solar Energy which is easy when in all other countries Solar Power has failed, further it takes a world leader in created debt and taxing to pay for Solar Power.
The President states or sells Solar Energy as clean yet the plant he touts burns Natural Gas night and day, further the World's Largest Solar Plant used the world's largest amount of fossil fuels to manufacture the world's largest amount of mirrors covering the world's largest amount of land producing a minuscule, insignificant amount of electricity.
I can not believe how the AGW alarmists are not concerned that the solution they propose literally kills the earth.
Excepting that it may need more gas than originally intended...it is operating as designed and marketed.
Using natural gas as a pre-heat in the morning and when there is no sun was always the design intent.
I wonder how much natural gas a fully gas-fired plant of equivalent output would burn - and whether it would be more or less than this design?
No, it's not. try reading some of the provided links and you'll see that it isn't even close to what was promised. This is yet more progressive propaganda.
Yet the process of making everything having to do with solar requires another energy source, and being that you have to manufacture a 100,000xs more material Solar ends up contributing more radioactivity to the environment then lets say, nuclear power.
Oh really? And you have the data to back up that assertion, right?
Yes. Really. Further it is a fact.
Oh. And I do not get to play by your rules where theory and assertion gets to stand as a valid point until somebody finds the proof that your agw theory or your assertions in regards to clean green renewable energy are found as false.
Again, the world's largest solar power plant burns up the world's largest amount fossil fuel in the construction.
Do I need to draw a picture or will argue that green energy grows on magic trees
Excepting that it may need more gas than originally intended...it is operating as designed and marketed.
Using natural gas as a pre-heat in the morning and when there is no sun was always the design intent.
I wonder how much natural gas a fully gas-fired plant of equivalent output would burn - and whether it would be more or less than this design?
No, it's not. try reading some of the provided links and you'll see that it isn't even close to what was promised. This is yet more progressive propaganda.
I have, and yes it does.
Only if you read JUST the OP's link. Try reading some of the links that Elektra and polarbear provided. I understand that facts make your brain hurt but if you actually want to know what's happening you must read alternate sources.
Oh really? And you have the data to back up that assertion, right?
Yes. Really. Further it is a fact.
Oh. And I do not get to play by your rules where theory and assertion gets to stand as a valid point until somebody finds the proof that your agw theory or your assertions in regards to clean green renewable energy are found as false.
Again, the world's largest solar power plant burns up the world's largest amount fossil fuel in the construction.
Do I need to draw a picture or will argue that green energy grows on magic trees
So, you can make an unsubstantiated claim and what makes it a fact is that you say it's a fact.
Interesting.
No, it's not. try reading some of the provided links and you'll see that it isn't even close to what was promised. This is yet more progressive propaganda.
I have, and yes it does.
Each plant also includes a partial-load natural gas-fired steam boiler, which would be used for thermal input to the turbine during the morning start-up cycle to assist the plant in coming up to operating temperature more quickly. The boiler would also be operated during transient cloudy conditions, in order to maintain the turbine on-line and ready to resume production from solar thermal input, after the clouds pass. After the clouds pass and solar thermal input resumes, the turbine would be returned to full solar production.
