World's Largest Solar Plant to burn Trillions!!!!!

[elektra]

Ivanpah, in serious trouble, is battling to burn trillions of cubic feet of Natural Gas.

Owners Google and Brightsource made Emergency requests to change the rules to allow Solar to run on Natural Gas.

Lied to again we are, by the Government, by Obama and Energy Secretary Moniz.

Ivanpah is non-operational, Ivanpah wants to run a natural gas boiler to produce electricity.

The World's Largest Solar Plant is a lie, everything about Solar is a lie.

Ivanpah Solar Plant Owners Want To Burn a Lot More Natural Gas | Concentrating Solar | ReWire | KCET

The project's managers, BrightSource Energy and NRG Energy, originally estimated that the plant's main auxiliary boilers would need to run for an hour a day, on average, to allow the plant to capture solar energy efficiently. But after a few months of operation, they're now saying they need to burn more gas, with the boilers running an average of five hours a day.

To that end, the companies have asked the California Energy Commission (CEC) to change the project's license to allow Ivanpah to burn more than 1.5 billion cubic feet of gas a year, and the plant's operators say that change won't have any environmental impact.

Billions of dollars in Research and Development lost, as well as Billions in concrete, cement, steel, fiberglass, silica, computers, thousands of mirrors, miles of land, dead turtles, birds, an increase in the use of water, all for another failed SCAM, portrayed on us, by Al Gore, Bill Clinton, and all of Congress, Republicans and Democrats.

I should go back and quote everyone who stated Ivanpah was a Solar Plant, the only part working is the part that is pure fossil fuel.

 

[Mr. H.]

What a crock. So typical of this admin.

 

[westwall]

What a crock. So typical of this admin.

It's sadly typical of the entire environmental movement. Just look at the mindless responses these stories (and there are far too many of them) get.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Well when the environmentalist head honcho lives here - what do you expect?

 

[polarbear]

Ivanpah, in serious trouble, is battling to burn trillions of cubic feet of Natural Gas.

Owners Google and Brightsource made Emergency requests to change the rules to allow Solar to run on Natural Gas.

Lied to again we are, by the Government, by Obama and Energy Secretary Moniz.

Ivanpah is non-operational, Ivanpah wants to run a natural gas boiler to produce electricity.

The World's Largest Solar Plant is a lie, everything about Solar is a lie.

Ivanpah Solar Plant Owners Want To Burn a Lot More Natural Gas | Concentrating Solar | ReWire | KCET

The project's managers, BrightSource Energy and NRG Energy, originally estimated that the plant's main auxiliary boilers would need to run for an hour a day, on average, to allow the plant to capture solar energy efficiently. But after a few months of operation, they're now saying they need to burn more gas, with the boilers running an average of five hours a day.

To that end, the companies have asked the California Energy Commission (CEC) to change the project's license to allow Ivanpah to burn more than 1.5 billion cubic feet of gas a year, and the plant's operators say that change won't have any environmental impact.

Billions of dollars in Research and Development lost, as well as Billions in concrete, cement, steel, fiberglass, silica, computers, thousands of mirrors, miles of land, dead turtles, birds, an increase in the use of water, all for another failed SCAM, portrayed on us, by Al Gore, Bill Clinton, and all of Congress, Republicans and Democrats.

I should go back and quote everyone who stated Ivanpah was a Solar Plant, the only part working is the part that is pure fossil fuel.

Hilarious, isn`t it. But as soon as you try and remind them about what they did say they`ll start complaining and demand that you move any thread conc. Ivanpah from environment and bury it in the energy category, because most of the guests who come for a read-only visit don`t go there.
"Abraham3" and his friends try to own the environment page where they practically "live" 24/7 to squirt their digital ink over everything that reveals what`s happening in the real world.
Back to the subject:

Each of the 4,000-acre facility's three units has gas-fired boilers used to warm up the fluid in the turbines in the early morning, to keep that fluid at an optimum temperature through the night, and to boost production during the day when the sun goes behind a cloud. The project's managers, BrightSource Energy and NRG Energy, originally estimated that the plant's main auxiliary boilers would need to run for an hour a day, on average, to allow the plant to capture solar energy efficiently. But after a few months of operation, they're now saying they need to burn more gas, with the boilers running an average of five hours a day.

I was wondering how much longer they can deceive the public and now we know how it can be done.
Once Ivanpah actually does generate power it`ll go on the CAISO data page as total "SOLAR THERMAL" which is already a composite of Ivanpah + all the other California solar thermal operations...
Then it`ll be almost impossible for critics to determine how much power was produced by Ivanpah with solar and how much of it came from Ivanpah`s gas burners.
"running an average of five hours"(on gas)....what a joke!
No matter which day you look at, the entire CAISO SOLAR THERMAL energy system never puts out for more than 5 hours per day from ~10:00 to 15:00 and when it does then seldom over 300 MW for more than 60 minutes.
Look at yesterday, it was a typical example:
http://content.caiso.com/green/renewrpt/20140401_DailyRenewablesWatch.txt

The entire California solar thermal system managed to produce 345 MW for only 1 hour at 14:00 and dropped down to nothing just 3 hours later.

Same story in the morning hours right up to 9 or 10 am every day, nothing, s.f.a. ,ZERO, which is when Ivanpah is supposedly still "preheating" (with gas).

After they get the permit to burn more gas it will be quite difficult to prove if they used most of it to spike their mid-day "solar" output, in order to save face....and there are a lot of public faces that need to be saved.
That`s why they`ll get that permit approved, no problemo!
The same thing happened with the water permit. There was only minimal environmental red tape and whatever red tape there was, that was staged for p.r. purposes.

From an engineering stand point, as impressive as the scale of the project is, equally impressive are the technical blunders.

As we've written extensively in past months, the concentration of "solar flux" creates extremely high air temperatures near the towers.

So much hot air that birds get fried...you could not design a dumber thermal power system than this one, which uses external heating where the bulk of it gets wasted outside at the open-air heat exchangers instead of an internal heat exchanger, like in "water-tube" or "fire-tube" steam generator systems.

Where the hot combustion products make 3 passes before they are vented to the outside. There is very little heat loss other than the heat that has not been "scrubbed" from the combustion chamber.
Ivanpah`s external heating is about as efficient as dangling a pot of water over an open fire, but that never mattered to the anti-CO2 mob, since solar heat is "free",....
if you go along with it that $2.2 Billion and the > 5 times higher than conventional cost per kwh can be construed as "free".
That used the same double standard method & reasoning as "green energy" employs with the wild life impact.
Birds killed by windmills or getting fried in mid-air by Ivanpah aren`t used to enrage the public. The news media still prefer to use birds which were soaked by "big bad oil"

 

[skookerasbil]

What a disgrace.......this is what happens when you have a plurality of knownothing simpletons in the electorate. The taxpayer gets hosed.

 

[SSDD]

What a disgrace.......this is what happens when you have a plurality of knownothing simpletons in the electorate. The taxpayer gets hosed.

And don't expect the mainstream press to correct their reporting errors regarding the money wasted or the blatant dishonesty of the whole project. Did you hear about the member of the illustrious press who recently asked the director of the movie "Gravity" to describe the difficulties of filming a movie in space?

You just can't make this shit up.

 

[Abraham3]

The request is actually to burn 60% more gas, not the 500% increase that the lead piece attempts to imply. As noted even there, a fully natural gas plant with the capacity of Ivanpah would burn through what Ivanpah is requesting annually, in 27 days. Ivanpah will thus use 7.4% of the gas a non-solar plant would and will be producing 92.6% of its energy output from solar.

Not quite the complete failure your lying shithead "journalists" - and the lot of you - would have us believe.

 

[westwall]

The request is actually to burn 60% more gas, not the 500% increase that the lead piece attempts to imply. As noted even there, a fully natural gas plant with the capacity of Ivanpah would burn through what Ivanpah is requesting annually, in 27 days. Ivanpah will thus use 7.4% of the gas a non-solar plant would and will be producing 92.6% of its energy output from solar.

Not quite the complete failure your lying shithead "journalists" - and the lot of you - would have us believe.

 

[elektra]

The request is actually to burn 60% more gas, not the 500% increase that the lead piece attempts to imply. As noted even there, a fully natural gas plant with the capacity of Ivanpah would burn through what Ivanpah is requesting annually, in 27 days. Ivanpah will thus use 7.4% of the gas a non-solar plant would and will be producing 92.6% of its energy output from solar.

Not quite the complete failure your lying shithead "journalists" - and the lot of you - would have us believe.

Abraham, this post is pathetic. This kind of paints all your other posts as lies, not simple google mistakes.

Care for some nice AbraHAM quotes in context with reality.

 

[SSDD]

The request is actually to burn 60% more gas, not the 500% increase that the lead piece attempts to imply. As noted even there, a fully natural gas plant with the capacity of Ivanpah would burn through what Ivanpah is requesting annually, in 27 days. Ivanpah will thus use 7.4% of the gas a non-solar plant would and will be producing 92.6% of its energy output from solar.

Not quite the complete failure your lying shithead "journalists" - and the lot of you - would have us believe.

The level that these people will stoop to defend their beliefs is simply amazing. I though the people who tried to defend clinton's behavior with monica were pathetic, but those who attempt to defend modern environmentalism are going to require hell to open up a whole new, and lower level. Didn't Dante say that the lowest level was reserved for traitors to their nations? What to do with traitors to humanity itself?

 

[SillyWabbit]

What a disgrace.......this is what happens when you have a plurality of knownothing simpletons in the electorate. The taxpayer gets hosed.

And don't expect the mainstream press to correct their reporting errors regarding the money wasted or the blatant dishonesty of the whole project. Did you hear about the member of the illustrious press who recently asked the director of the movie "Gravity" to describe the difficulties of filming a movie in space?

You just can't make this shit up.

I am already a blackhearted cynic. But, up until reading your post, I had a glimmer of hope living in my shriveled soul. I am going to keep that glimmer alive by not believing your post. I shall not research it to prove that someone actually posed such a fucked up question.

I will put my headphones on and drink six shots of ice cold vodka and smoke a pack of cigarettes.

Thank you,
Good night.

 

[flacaltenn]

Well when the environmentalist head honcho lives here - what do you expect?

What? No helo pad or Tennis Court? what a dump !!!!!

Somethin' ain't right.. Giving up WAAYYY too early.. Especially given the fact that this ain't the first Solar Tower design on the block..
Either there's a serious design flaw in THIS solar thermal facility --- or they knew all along that scaling it up to the size of Ivanpah would
require more nat gas and didn't disclose it.. THIS design competes against Parabolic Solar concentrators. Where the heated fluid goes out to the mirror field through MILES of piping. If THOSE plants don't burn oodles of fossil juice to warm up the pipes --- why should Ivanpah?

Not a simple failure.. More like false advertising.. Wonder how Google feels right now to have their name on it and money going up in steam?

 

[westwall]

Well when the environmentalist head honcho lives here - what do you expect?

What? No helo pad or Tennis Court? what a dump !!!!!

The helo pad is under the pool And he can't play tennis.

 

[Abraham3]

Whose house is that?

 

[Abraham3]

The request is actually to burn 60% more gas, not the 500% increase that the lead piece attempts to imply. As noted even there, a fully natural gas plant with the capacity of Ivanpah would burn through what Ivanpah is requesting annually, in 27 days. Ivanpah will thus use 7.4% of the gas a non-solar plant would and will be producing 92.6% of its energy output from solar.

Not quite the complete failure your lying shithead "journalists" - and the lot of you - would have us believe.

Abraham, this post is pathetic. This kind of paints all your other posts as lies, not simple google mistakes.

Care for some nice AbraHAM quotes in context with reality.

What is pathetic is the article with which you started this worthless thread. Ivanpah apparently isn't working as its designers hoped, but it is not a complete failure and is still producing electricity at a far, far lower level of GHG emissions per kilowatt than would anything YOU people would like to see out there.

And, as I have said repeatedly, how well Ivanpah performs is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the validity of anthropogenic global warming. The reason you're all so excited about it's difficulties is that you've so little else in this argument with which to be happy. You lose every debate point on the facts. That's gotta get you down after a while. I've a suggestion though. Come back as a new poster and join the side of mainstream science. It's very nice to win all the time. You'd like it.

 

[Abraham3]

Ivanpah, in serious trouble, is battling to burn trillions of cubic feet of Natural Gas.

Owners Google and Brightsource made Emergency requests to change the rules to allow Solar to run on Natural Gas.

Lied to again we are, by the Government, by Obama and Energy Secretary Moniz.

Ivanpah is non-operational, Ivanpah wants to run a natural gas boiler to produce electricity.

The World's Largest Solar Plant is a lie, everything about Solar is a lie.

Ivanpah Solar Plant Owners Want To Burn a Lot More Natural Gas | Concentrating Solar | ReWire | KCET

The project's managers, BrightSource Energy and NRG Energy, originally estimated that the plant's main auxiliary boilers would need to run for an hour a day, on average, to allow the plant to capture solar energy efficiently. But after a few months of operation, they're now saying they need to burn more gas, with the boilers running an average of five hours a day.

To that end, the companies have asked the California Energy Commission (CEC) to change the project's license to allow Ivanpah to burn more than 1.5 billion cubic feet of gas a year, and the plant's operators say that change won't have any environmental impact.

Billions of dollars in Research and Development lost, as well as Billions in concrete, cement, steel, fiberglass, silica, computers, thousands of mirrors, miles of land, dead turtles, birds, an increase in the use of water, all for another failed SCAM, portrayed on us, by Al Gore, Bill Clinton, and all of Congress, Republicans and Democrats.

I should go back and quote everyone who stated Ivanpah was a Solar Plant, the only part working is the part that is pure fossil fuel.

A little math for you Ms Elektra. Ivanpah would have to burn gas at the maximum rate they are requesting for 1,333 years and 4 months before it has consumed "trillions of cubic feet of natural gas". I'm glad you have such faith in the facility's durability.

 

[elektra]

The request is actually to burn 60% more gas, not the 500% increase that the lead piece attempts to imply. As noted even there, a fully natural gas plant with the capacity of Ivanpah would burn through what Ivanpah is requesting annually, in 27 days. Ivanpah will thus use 7.4% of the gas a non-solar plant would and will be producing 92.6% of its energy output from solar.

Not quite the complete failure your lying shithead "journalists" - and the lot of you - would have us believe.

More lies AbraHAM.
Ivanpah has went from being a solar plant to a natural gas plant.

One part of the change requested is to burn natural gas five more hours. How is five more than one 60%?

Further Ivanpah will burn natural gas 24 hours a day. Not one hour nor five.

Given all the lies. How credible are the latest claims.

24/7 the world's largest solar energy plant will require natural gas pumped by diesel fuel.

 

[Abraham3]

Read the article. Do the math. I assume you can do the math.

Ivanpah will not burn gas 24 hours a day. I don't know where you even dreamed that one up. Ivanpah will still produce the vast majority of her output via solar. The gas she will burn will be a tiny fraction of what a gas plant her size would burn.

The only lies we've seen so far have come, I'm afraid, from you.

 

[elektra]

Read the article. Do the math. I assume you can do the math.

Ivanpah will not burn gas 24 hours a day. I don't know where you even dreamed that one up. Ivanpah will still produce the vast majority of her output via solar. The gas she will burn will be a tiny fraction of what a gas plant her size would burn.

The only lies we've seen so far have come, I'm afraid, from you.

24/7 I say and as abraHAM knows, I quote sources. Read the permit linked to in the article or for fun, study the actual design and see the thing called NIGHTTIME PRESERVATION BOILER.

24 hours a day the worlds largest solar plant will burn natural gas. At least this is what the owners state in all the applications filed and posted online.

AbraHAM calls me liar when I quote the owner"s applications.