World's biggest wind farm given go-ahead off Britain

[martybegan]

Renewable Energy in Iceland - Geothermal

Iceland is 100% self sufficient.

They also sit on a hotspot, something which most places don't have the luxury of.

Lucky? You know nothing of Geothermal power.
Google

Prospects for Sustainable Energy: A Critical Assessment
isbn:0521631203 - Google Search
Edward S. Cassedy - 2000 - ‎Business & Economics
Steam pressures have fallen and available thermal power is expected to be only half ...Iceland is a prime example of this use, with over 85% of the residences in the ... oftoxic wastes from this scrubbing and the processing of geothermal fluids ...

As long as the systems are as closed looped as possible, effluent from the system can be minimized. That being said, as any "sustainable" source touted by the "something from nothing" crowd, geothermal has downsides, but for Iceland, it is a good fit as it reduces the imports of coal and oil it needs for power production.

I work in Geothermal plants, closed loop systems are opened for maintenance, most use fracking to inject the brine back into the wells.

In Iceland, my link which I will use for another thread, specifically states the power or steam pressure in Iceland is about half of what it was, so that geothermal source is no longer as it was.

Every Geothermal is unique in its chemistry and problems. Being thee most expensive form of Energy it was never a good idea. It is expensive because that steam is not like steam from a teapot, it is and can be very corrosive, destroying pipes. Further geothermal is and can be very volatile, think volcano, mini eruptions, shaking pipes, tremendously, stress corrosion cracking, high cycle fatigue. intergranular attack scc. So geothermal goes through a lot of pipes and components.

So for Iceland, it sucks, you know it has also lowered the water table which may result in contamination spreading to the fresh water wells. Anyhow, like I said, another thread, GEOTHERMAL TOXIC RADIOACTIVE ELEMENTS DANGER TO THE PUBLIC sounds like a nice start.

Aren't most of the plants going to a split system, where a 2nd material is used for the actual power generation, which limits the corrosive loop's size?

Any power generation has downsides, and geothermal is no exception. But unless Iceland wants to nuclear geothermal is still cost effective for them based on the shipping which would be required for them to go full fossil.

That being said Iceland is a wind power playground, but they still need other things for base-load.

 

[elektra]

Renewable Energy in Iceland - Geothermal

Iceland is 100% self sufficient.

They also sit on a hotspot, something which most places don't have the luxury of.

Lucky? You know nothing of Geothermal power.
Google

Prospects for Sustainable Energy: A Critical Assessment
isbn:0521631203 - Google Search
Edward S. Cassedy - 2000 - ‎Business & Economics
Steam pressures have fallen and available thermal power is expected to be only half ...Iceland is a prime example of this use, with over 85% of the residences in the ... oftoxic wastes from this scrubbing and the processing of geothermal fluids ...

As long as the systems are as closed looped as possible, effluent from the system can be minimized. That being said, as any "sustainable" source touted by the "something from nothing" crowd, geothermal has downsides, but for Iceland, it is a good fit as it reduces the imports of coal and oil it needs for power production.

I work in Geothermal plants, closed loop systems are opened for maintenance, most use fracking to inject the brine back into the wells.

In Iceland, my link which I will use for another thread, specifically states the power or steam pressure in Iceland is about half of what it was, so that geothermal source is no longer as it was.

Every Geothermal is unique in its chemistry and problems. Being thee most expensive form of Energy it was never a good idea. It is expensive because that steam is not like steam from a teapot, it is and can be very corrosive, destroying pipes. Further geothermal is and can be very volatile, think volcano, mini eruptions, shaking pipes, tremendously, stress corrosion cracking, high cycle fatigue. intergranular attack scc. So geothermal goes through a lot of pipes and components.

So for Iceland, it sucks, you know it has also lowered the water table which may result in contamination spreading to the fresh water wells. Anyhow, like I said, another thread, GEOTHERMAL TOXIC RADIOACTIVE ELEMENTS DANGER TO THE PUBLIC sounds like a nice start.

Aren't most of the plants going to a split system, where a 2nd material is used for the actual power generation, which limits the corrosive loop's size?

Any power generation has downsides, and geothermal is no exception. But unless Iceland wants to nuclear geothermal is still cost effective for them based on the shipping which would be required for them to go full fossil.

That being said Iceland is a wind power playground, but they still need other things for base-load.

Iceland, yes geothermal uses a secondary loop, all thermal plants do. Typically it is called a heat exchanger. That component is does suffer damage but I don't think it is bad, my company has inspected the heat exchangers at Calipatria at the Salton Sea. There the biggest problem is te pipes from the wells, as well as the wells. I could look into the details of Iceland, but from what I have read they suffer the same problems. Once you drill a well, and begin to use the brine or steam, it begins to lose energy. So they constantly must drill new wells, run new pipes, sometimes or most times over a mile of new pipe for each new well. At the Salton Sea, they drill new wells everyday, all year long.

Geothermal is simply extremely expensive, they would be much further ahead going nuclear.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Wind power generates 140% of Denmark's electricity demand

Denmark exports wind power.
It just gets stronger and stronger.

You didn't read that article did you?

So much power was produced by Denmark’s windfarms on Thursday that the country was able to meet its domestic electricity demand and export power to Norway, Germany and Sweden.

It was ONE day

 

[Old Rocks]

Renewable Energy in Iceland - Geothermal

Iceland is 100% self sufficient.

Geothermal is not renewable nor clean

Really? Show us the evidence for that. More stupidity pulled out of your ass.

 

[elektra]

Renewable Energy in Iceland - Geothermal

Iceland is 100% self sufficient.

Geothermal is not renewable nor clean

Really? Show us the evidence for that. More stupidity pulled out of your ass.

show us the evidence that geothermal is renewable, you pull renewable out of your ass all day long, without every providing proof.

Go ahead, start a thread Old Crock and I will gladly hand your ass to you. Seems that may of happened in the past, Old Crock losing the geothermal debate?

 

[Old Rocks]

U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) - Source

Plant type Capacity factor (%) Levelized capital cost Fixed O&M Variable O&M (including fuel) Transmission investment Total system LCOE Subsidy2 Total LCOE including Subsidy
Dispatchable Technologies
Conventional Coal 85 60.4 4.2 29.4 1.2 95.1
Advanced Coal 85 76.9 6.9 30.7 1.2 115.7
Advanced Coal with CCS 85 97.3 9.8 36.1 1.2 144.4
Natural Gas-fired
ConventionalCombined Cycle 87 14.4 1.7 57.8 1.2 75.2
Advanced Combined Cycle 87 15.9 2.0 53.6 1.2 72.6
Advanced CC with CCS 87 30.1 4.2 64.7 1.2 100.2
Conventional Combustion Turbine 30 40.7 2.8 94.6 3.5 141.5
Advanced Combustion Turbine 30 27.8 2.7 79.6 3.5 113.5
Advanced Nuclear 90 70.1 11.8 12.2 1.1 95.2
Geothermal 92 34.1 12.3 0.0 1.4 47.8 -3.4 44.4
Biomass 83 47.1 14.5 37.6 1.2 100.5
Non-Dispatchable Technologies
Wind 36 57.7 12.8 0.0 3.1 73.6
Wind – Offshore 38 168.6 22.5 0.0 5.8 196.9
Solar PV3 25 109.8 11.4 0.0 4.1 125.3 -11.0 114.3
Solar Thermal 20 191.6 42.1 0.0 6.0 239.7 -19.2 220.6
Hydroelectric4 54 70.7 3.9 7.0 2.0 83.5
1Costs for the advanced nuclear technology reflect an online date of 2022.
2The subsidy component is based on targeted tax credits such as the production or investment tax credit available for some technologies. It only reflects subsidies available in 2020, which include a permanent 10% investment tax credit for geothermal and solar technologies. EIA models tax credit expiration as follows: new solar thermal and PV plants are eligible to receive a 30% investment tax credit on capital expenditures if placed in service before the end of 2016, and 10% thereafter. New wind, geothermal, biomass, hydroelectric, and landfill gas plants are eligible to receive either: (1) a $23.0/MWh ($11.0/MWh for technologies other than wind, geothermal and closed-loop biomass) inflation-adjusted production tax credit over the plant's first ten years of service or (2) a 30% investment tax credit, if they are under construction before the end of 2013. Up to 6 GW of new nuclear plants are eligible to receive an $18/MWh production tax credit if in service by 2020; nuclear plants shown in this table have an in-service date of 2022.
3Costs are expressed in terms of net AC power available to the grid for the installed capacity.
4As modeled, hydroelectric is assumed to have seasonal storage so that it can be dispatched within a season, but overall operation is limited by resources available by site and season.
Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Annual Energy Outlook 2015, April 2015, DOE/EIA-0383(2015).

Red are the real costs. Note that Geothermal is the cheapest of all. And nuclear is more expensive than wind. Solar PV is rapidly coming down in price, so that cost is less at present, and will be much less in a decade.

 

[elektra]

Renewable Energy in Iceland - Geothermal

Iceland is 100% self sufficient.

Geothermal is not renewable nor clean

Really? Show us the evidence for that. More stupidity pulled out of your ass.

Go ahead, start a geothermal thread, I dare you Old Crock, do it! Make it a 2-step link easy as PIE thing. ha ha

 

[elektra]

U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) - Source

Plant type Capacity factor (%) Levelized capital cost Fixed O&M Variable O&M (including fuel) Transmission investment Total system LCOE Subsidy2 Total LCOE including Subsidy
Dispatchable Technologies
Conventional Coal 85 60.4 4.2 29.4 1.2 95.1
Advanced Coal 85 76.9 6.9 30.7 1.2 115.7
Advanced Coal with CCS 85 97.3 9.8 36.1 1.2 144.4
Natural Gas-fired
ConventionalCombined Cycle 87 14.4 1.7 57.8 1.2 75.2
Advanced Combined Cycle 87 15.9 2.0 53.6 1.2 72.6
Advanced CC with CCS 87 30.1 4.2 64.7 1.2 100.2
Conventional Combustion Turbine 30 40.7 2.8 94.6 3.5 141.5
Advanced Combustion Turbine 30 27.8 2.7 79.6 3.5 113.5
Advanced Nuclear 90 70.1 11.8 12.2 1.1 95.2
Geothermal 92 34.1 12.3 0.0 1.4 47.8 -3.4 44.4
Biomass 83 47.1 14.5 37.6 1.2 100.5
Non-Dispatchable Technologies
Wind 36 57.7 12.8 0.0 3.1 73.6
Wind – Offshore 38 168.6 22.5 0.0 5.8 196.9
Solar PV3 25 109.8 11.4 0.0 4.1 125.3 -11.0 114.3
Solar Thermal 20 191.6 42.1 0.0 6.0 239.7 -19.2 220.6
Hydroelectric4 54 70.7 3.9 7.0 2.0 83.5
1Costs for the advanced nuclear technology reflect an online date of 2022.
2The subsidy component is based on targeted tax credits such as the production or investment tax credit available for some technologies. It only reflects subsidies available in 2020, which include a permanent 10% investment tax credit for geothermal and solar technologies. EIA models tax credit expiration as follows: new solar thermal and PV plants are eligible to receive a 30% investment tax credit on capital expenditures if placed in service before the end of 2016, and 10% thereafter. New wind, geothermal, biomass, hydroelectric, and landfill gas plants are eligible to receive either: (1) a $23.0/MWh ($11.0/MWh for technologies other than wind, geothermal and closed-loop biomass) inflation-adjusted production tax credit over the plant's first ten years of service or (2) a 30% investment tax credit, if they are under construction before the end of 2013. Up to 6 GW of new nuclear plants are eligible to receive an $18/MWh production tax credit if in service by 2020; nuclear plants shown in this table have an in-service date of 2022.
3Costs are expressed in terms of net AC power available to the grid for the installed capacity.
4As modeled, hydroelectric is assumed to have seasonal storage so that it can be dispatched within a season, but overall operation is limited by resources available by site and season.
Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Annual Energy Outlook 2015, April 2015, DOE/EIA-0383(2015).

Red are the real costs. Note that Geothermal is the cheapest of all. And nuclear is more expensive than wind. Solar PV is rapidly coming down in price, so that cost is less at present, and will be much less in a decade.

Start a thread, start a thread, go ahead, meet the challenge, what are you afraid of Old Crock

 

[Old Rocks]

Why? I have already shown you are just pulling more shit out of your ass with baseless claims about geothermal and wind.

 

[elektra]

No thread by Old Crock on geothermal is my bet, Old Crock is dumb but not dumb enough to start a thread he can not support.

Hey, how about this from your link Old Crock, seems Geothermal can not expand at all. All the good sites are gone!

Geothermal cost data is site-specific, and the relatively large positive value for that technology results because there may be individual sites that are very cost competitive, leading to new builds, but there is a limited amount of capacity available at that cost.

 

[HenryBHough]

There was a chance to have the world's largest wind farm just off the coast of Cape Cod several years back but Klan Kennedy had sufficient political drag to prevent it === it might have ruined their "viewshed".

Ob-la-di-ob-la-dahhhhhhh.....

 

[elektra]

Why? I have already shown you are just pulling more shit out of your ass with baseless claims about geothermal and wind.

From your link Old Crock, the PIE eating LIAR, how about that 2-step any moron can make, LIAR.
Low cost is relative, low cost but thee most expensive form of electricity, maybe old crock can tell us story how we can recover zinc from geothermal and make a fortune, ha, ha, go ahead, start a thread, but until then from your link, old crock:

most of the low-cost resources in California have already been developed.

 

[Old Rocks]

No thread by Old Crock on geothermal is my bet, Old Crock is dumb but not dumb enough to start a thread he can not support.

Hey, how about this from your link Old Crock, seems Geothermal can not expand at all. All the good sites are gone!

Geothermal cost data is site-specific, and the relatively large positive value for that technology results because there may be individual sites that are very cost competitive, leading to new builds, but there is a limited amount of capacity available at that cost.

The word geothermal comes from the Greek words geo (earth) and therme (heat). So, geothermal energy is heat from within the earth. We can recover this heat as steam or hot water and use it to heat buildings or generate electricity.

Geothermal energy is a renewable energy source because the heat is continuously produced inside the earth.

Naturally occurring large areas of hydrothermal resources are called geothermal reservoirs. Most geothermal reservoirs are deep underground with no visible clues showing above ground. But geothermal energy sometimes finds its way to the surface in the form of:

• Volcanoes and fumaroles (holes where volcanic gases are released)
• Hot springs
• Geysers

Most of the geothermal resources in the United States are found in the West:

Geothermal Energy Geothermal Energy

Most sites available already in production? LOL

 

[Old Rocks]

There was a chance to have the world's largest wind farm just off the coast of Cape Cod several years back but Klan Kennedy had sufficient political drag to prevent it === it might have ruined their "viewshed".

Ob-la-di-ob-la-dahhhhhhh.....

An extreme case of NIMBY, and that farm should have been built.

 

[elektra]

No thread by Old Crock on geothermal is my bet, Old Crock is dumb but not dumb enough to start a thread he can not support.

Hey, how about this from your link Old Crock, seems Geothermal can not expand at all. All the good sites are gone!

Geothermal cost data is site-specific, and the relatively large positive value for that technology results because there may be individual sites that are very cost competitive, leading to new builds, but there is a limited amount of capacity available at that cost.

The word geothermal comes from the Greek words geo (earth) and therme (heat). So, geothermal energy is heat from within the earth. We can recover this heat as steam or hot water and use it to heat buildings or generate electricity.

Geothermal energy is a renewable energy source because the heat is continuously produced inside the earth.

Naturally occurring large areas of hydrothermal resources are called geothermal reservoirs. Most geothermal reservoirs are deep underground with no visible clues showing above ground. But geothermal energy sometimes finds its way to the surface in the form of:

• Volcanoes and fumaroles (holes where volcanic gases are released)
• Hot springs
• Geysers

Most of the geothermal resources in the United States are found in the West:

Geothermal Energy Geothermal Energy

Most sites available already in production? LOL

start a thread, coward

 

[HenryBHough]

Suck enough heat out of Mother Gaia with that geothermal stuff and the planet will cool too rapidly. Maybe crack. Then the oceans would drain down the cracks and extinguish what little fire is left down deep and we'll all freeze to death.

A theory at least as credible as that espoused by Algore's First Universal Church of Global Warming.

Gee, think I could get donations if I did a PayPal setup for believers?

I mean, think I TOO could.....

 

[Old Rocks]

Suck enough heat out of Mother Gaia with that geothermal stuff and the planet will cool too rapidly. Maybe crack. Then the oceans would drain down the cracks and extinguish what little fire is left down deep and we'll all freeze to death.

A theory at least as credible as that espoused by Algore's First Universal Church of Global Warming.

Gee, think I could get donations if I did a PayPal setup for believers?

I mean, think I TOO could.....

OK........................ LOL

 

[martybegan]

They also sit on a hotspot, something which most places don't have the luxury of.

Lucky? You know nothing of Geothermal power.
Google

Prospects for Sustainable Energy: A Critical Assessment
isbn:0521631203 - Google Search
Edward S. Cassedy - 2000 - ‎Business & Economics
Steam pressures have fallen and available thermal power is expected to be only half ...Iceland is a prime example of this use, with over 85% of the residences in the ... oftoxic wastes from this scrubbing and the processing of geothermal fluids ...

As long as the systems are as closed looped as possible, effluent from the system can be minimized. That being said, as any "sustainable" source touted by the "something from nothing" crowd, geothermal has downsides, but for Iceland, it is a good fit as it reduces the imports of coal and oil it needs for power production.

I work in Geothermal plants, closed loop systems are opened for maintenance, most use fracking to inject the brine back into the wells.

In Iceland, my link which I will use for another thread, specifically states the power or steam pressure in Iceland is about half of what it was, so that geothermal source is no longer as it was.

Every Geothermal is unique in its chemistry and problems. Being thee most expensive form of Energy it was never a good idea. It is expensive because that steam is not like steam from a teapot, it is and can be very corrosive, destroying pipes. Further geothermal is and can be very volatile, think volcano, mini eruptions, shaking pipes, tremendously, stress corrosion cracking, high cycle fatigue. intergranular attack scc. So geothermal goes through a lot of pipes and components.

So for Iceland, it sucks, you know it has also lowered the water table which may result in contamination spreading to the fresh water wells. Anyhow, like I said, another thread, GEOTHERMAL TOXIC RADIOACTIVE ELEMENTS DANGER TO THE PUBLIC sounds like a nice start.

Aren't most of the plants going to a split system, where a 2nd material is used for the actual power generation, which limits the corrosive loop's size?

Any power generation has downsides, and geothermal is no exception. But unless Iceland wants to nuclear geothermal is still cost effective for them based on the shipping which would be required for them to go full fossil.

That being said Iceland is a wind power playground, but they still need other things for base-load.

Iceland, yes geothermal uses a secondary loop, all thermal plants do. Typically it is called a heat exchanger. That component is does suffer damage but I don't think it is bad, my company has inspected the heat exchangers at Calipatria at the Salton Sea. There the biggest problem is te pipes from the wells, as well as the wells. I could look into the details of Iceland, but from what I have read they suffer the same problems. Once you drill a well, and begin to use the brine or steam, it begins to lose energy. So they constantly must drill new wells, run new pipes, sometimes or most times over a mile of new pipe for each new well. At the Salton Sea, they drill new wells everyday, all year long.

Geothermal is simply extremely expensive, they would be much further ahead going nuclear.

I have a Master's in Chem E, so i have been around a few heat exchangers. I can also imagine the fouling issue on the "hot" side of the exchanger.

Don't some sites inject the waste water back into the stratum to replenish the water supply in the originally drilled heat source?

 

[Old Rocks]

Most do pump the waste water back down into the heat source. Best way to get rid of the water, and also replenish the steam source. I foresee the day when this will be done after the valuable minerals, such as zinc and lithium are removed, and the water is used to heat greenhouses for growing food.

 

[martybegan]

Most do pump the waste water back down into the heat source. Best way to get rid of the water, and also replenish the steam source. I foresee the day when this will be done after the valuable minerals, such as zinc and lithium are removed, and the water is used to heat greenhouses for growing food.

I doubt those minerals are available in concentrations that make it economically viable to remove them, using current technology at least.