World Wide Civil Unrest - World War III?

[Foxfyre]

So if we go with the perception that WWIII is to be a radical Islamofacist Muslim war against the rest of us, who wins?

The West of course!

And which side do peaceful Muslims join, if any?

Which side did the peaceful Germans and Japanese fight on?

Athough this war will be different it will be a Holy War!

I wonder if the West will win if it cannot shake its current namby pamby politically correct views on how war must be conducted?

And as for the peaceful Muslims, I suspect some would take up arms with the West if the choice was fight or lose their freedoms. I would guess many would hide their faces and pray for an outcome that did not destroy us all.

Israel affords full citizenship status to all its citizens including the minority Arab population. But it does exempt Arab citizens from mandatory military service. I think that is probably wise rather than subject Arabs to mandatory violence against other Arabs which has been inevitable in the past and no doubt will be again.

 

[Foxfyre]

Iranian warships are moving through the Suez Canal in the last 24 hours and will be anchoring off the Israeli coast. This has not happened since the 1970's and would not have happened if Mubarek was still in power in Egypt. But no one is lifting a finger to stop it now.

What does this mean?

 

[Ropey]

Iranian warships are moving through the Suez Canal in the last 24 hours and will be anchoring off the Israeli coast. This has not happened since the 1970's and would not have happened if Mubarek was still in power in Egypt. But no one is lifting a finger to stop it now.

What does this mean?

So far, nothing as they are still 'delayed'.

Passage of Iran ships through Suez delayed by 48 hours

Iran is attempting to provoke Israel. Just as Turkey did with their "Peace" flotilla.

But when they have nuclear devices?

 

[Foxfyre]

Iranian warships are moving through the Suez Canal in the last 24 hours and will be anchoring off the Israeli coast. This has not happened since the 1970's and would not have happened if Mubarek was still in power in Egypt. But no one is lifting a finger to stop it now.

What does this mean?

So far, nothing as they are still 'delayed'.

Passage of Iran ships through Suez delayed by 48 hours

Iran is attempting to provoke Israel. Just as Turkey did with their "Peace" flotilla.

But when they have nuclear devices?

Ah, I haven't caught up with today's news since early this morning. At that time the warships were making their way through the Canal.

 

[Foxfyre]

Still watching the Iranian warships that are still in the Suez Canal.

Forgot to mention that there are public protests going on now in Lybia. Gadhafy's son says they will fight to the last bullet to save the government if they are forced into civil war. That sounds pretty serious, but admittedly I don't know this guy and that could be the way he orders breakfast.

Protests continue in Tehran and Bahrain.

And now there is a 'warship' shadowing a Somali pirate ship that supposedly has four Americans captive on it. The nationality of the 'warship' with a helicopter on its deck has not been announced. The U.S. State Dept. isn't talking. If the ship is American and there are hostilities. . . .

 

[SFC Ollie]

Still watching the Iranian warships that are still in the Suez Canal.

Forgot to mention that there are public protests going on now in Lybia. Gadhafy's son says they will fight to the last bullet to save the government if they are forced into civil war. That sounds pretty serious, but admittedly I don't know this guy and that could be the way he orders breakfast.

Protests continue in Tehran and Bahrain.

And now there is a 'warship' shadowing a Somali pirate ship that supposedly has four Americans captive on it. The nationality of the 'warship' with a helicopter on its deck has not been announced. The U.S. State Dept. isn't talking. If the ship is American and there are hostilities. . . .

I thought we killed Gaddafi's son years ago, I guess he had more than one.

 

[HUGGY]

It's high time we put an end to the Somali Pirates. The state department needs to drop leaflets all over the coast of that pissant country explaining that if the hostages are not ALL released forth with AND the violators are not handed over immediately that ALL Somali powered watercraft will be sunk wherever they are found until they have nothing to go into the ocean with than a rowboat. Give em a week to comply.

If they do not fully comply if I was Obama I would order the Navy to start at one end of Somalia and travel the whole coast going from harbor to harbor and destroy ALL vessels capable of perpetrating these crimes. If they kill any hostages shell ALL their coastal towns to cinders.

If the world press complains...too bad. I don't give a rat's ass. We pay for a Navy to protect Americans. Fucking USE IT!

 

[Douger]

This thread says we need a pole shift.

 

[Foxfyre]

It's high time we put an end to the Somali Pirates. The state department needs to drop leaflets all over the coast of that pissant country explaining that if the hostages are not ALL released forth with AND the violators are not handed over immediately that ALL Somali powered watercraft will be sunk wherever they are found until they have nothing to go into the ocean with than a rowboat. Give em a week to comply.

If they do not fully comply if I was Obama I would order the Navy to start at one end of Somalia and travel the whole coast going from harbor to harbor and destroy ALL vessels capable of perpetrating these crimes. If they kill any hostages shell ALL their coastal towns to cinders.

If the world press complains...too bad. I don't give a rat's ass. We pay for a Navy to protect Americans. Fucking USE IT!

Well, while I emotionally connect with your point here, rationally I think the more practical solution is to just leave Somalia alone, put out a travel bulletin for Americans to avoid that area, and warn Somalia that if any of their ships threaten an America outside of international waters it will be sunk. And there will be no more U.S. aid or trade with Somalia until they can guarantee safety to all Americans there. That should take care of it without having to sink the fishing fleet too.

 

[Foxfyre]

Still watching the Iranian warships that are still in the Suez Canal.

Forgot to mention that there are public protests going on now in Lybia. Gadhafy's son says they will fight to the last bullet to save the government if they are forced into civil war. That sounds pretty serious, but admittedly I don't know this guy and that could be the way he orders breakfast.

Protests continue in Tehran and Bahrain.

And now there is a 'warship' shadowing a Somali pirate ship that supposedly has four Americans captive on it. The nationality of the 'warship' with a helicopter on its deck has not been announced. The U.S. State Dept. isn't talking. If the ship is American and there are hostilities. . . .

I thought we killed Gaddafi's son years ago, I guess he had more than one.

We did inadvertently kill one of his kids in a bombing raid following a Lybian terrorist attack on a bar where Americans congregated. Reagan had warned them and he was the type to follow through and did. And that did a tremendous amount of good as we didn't hear squat from Lybia after that.

I do think that terrorists and international bullies do not respond to kindness, reason, forgiveness or any of the normal human virtues. But they do understand obliteration and generally back off when their choice is to back off or be obliterated.

 

[HUGGY]

Still watching the Iranian warships that are still in the Suez Canal.

Forgot to mention that there are public protests going on now in Lybia. Gadhafy's son says they will fight to the last bullet to save the government if they are forced into civil war. That sounds pretty serious, but admittedly I don't know this guy and that could be the way he orders breakfast.

Protests continue in Tehran and Bahrain.

And now there is a 'warship' shadowing a Somali pirate ship that supposedly has four Americans captive on it. The nationality of the 'warship' with a helicopter on its deck has not been announced. The U.S. State Dept. isn't talking. If the ship is American and there are hostilities. . . .

I thought we killed Gaddafi's son years ago, I guess he had more than one.

We did inadvertently kill one of his kids in a bombing raid following a Lybian terrorist attack on a bar where Americans congregated. Reagan had warned them and he was the type to follow through and did. And that did a tremendous amount of good as we didn't hear squat from Lybia after that.

I do think that terrorists and international bullies do not respond to kindness, reason, forgiveness or any of the normal human virtues. But they do understand obliteration and generally back off when their choice is to back off or be obliterated.

And this cannot be applied to Somalia?

 

[boedicca]

Are we moving to the brink of World War III?

We're moving to WW IV - I would count the Cold War as III, given the consumption of resources to support it.

 

[Foxfyre]

The situation in Lybia is escalating, becoming ever more violent, and is taking some interesting twists:

PARIS Feb 21 (Reuters) - A coalition of Libyan Muslim leaders has issued a declaration telling all Muslims it is their duty to rebel against the Libyan leadership.

"They have demonstrated total arrogant impunity and continued, and even intensified, their bloody crimes against humanity. They have thereby demonstrated total infidelity to the guidance of God and His beloved Prophet (peace be upon him)," said the group, called the Network of Free Ulema of Libya.

"This renders them undeserving of any obedience or support, and makes rebelling against them by all means possible a divinely ordained duty," the group said in a declaration obtained by Reuters on Monday.
Libyan Muslim leaders order followers to rebel | Reuters

And in the light of strange alliances--we already know Hugo Chavez is friendly with the Iranian government--there is this:

(Reuters) - The government of President Hugo Chavez denied on Monday reports Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi was traveling to Venezuela following violent protests in the fellow OPEC member nation.

Attracted to Gaddafi's revolutionary past, the socialist Chavez also casts himself as an anti-U.S. stalwart on the international stage, and the pair enjoy warm ties.

Adding to media rumors, British Foreign Secretary William Hague said earlier on Monday he had seen information to suggest Gaddafi had fled Libya and was on his way to the South American oil-exporting nation.

Venezuela denies Libya's Gaddafi en route | Reuters

And I think we can see a spike in oil futures shortly. . .

Libyan tribe threatens to cut oil exports soon
Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:43pm GMT
Print | Single Page[-] Text [+] TRIPOLI Feb 20 (Reuters) - The leader of the Al-Zuwayya tribe in eastern Libya threatened on Sunday to cut oil exports to Western countries within 24 hours unless authorities stop what he called the "oppression of protesters".
Speaking to Al Jazeera, Shaikh Faraj al Zuway said: "We will stop oil exports to Western countries within 24 hours" if the violence did not stop.

The tribe lives south of Benghazi, which has seen the worst of the deadly violence in recent days.
Libyan tribe threatens to cut oil exports soon | Agricultural Commodities | Reuters

and this. . .
FRANKFURT/LONDON (Reuters) – Spreading unrest in Libya shut down 6 percent of oil output in Africa's No.3 producer and prompted a number of energy firms to pull out international staff, sending oil prices above $105 a barrel.

Wintershall, the oil and gas exploration arm of BASF (BASFn.DE) said on Monday it was winding down Libyan oil production of as much as 100,000 barrels per day (bpd). Other companies, including Royal Dutch Shell (RDSa.L), ENI (ENI.MI) and
Libya unrest stops some oil output, firms move staff - Yahoo! News

And it is possible that the military is defecting:

The pilots of two Libyan military jets that landed in Malta on Monday are "senior colonels" who were ordered to bomb protesters, Al Jazeera satellite network reports.

The colonels say they refused to bomb protesters demonstrating against Libyan leader Moammar Kadafi and instead defected to Malta, according to Al Jazeera reporter Karl Stagno-Novarra in Malta.

The pilots reportedly told Maltese officials they were based in Tripoli and ordered to attack protesters in Benghazi. After seeing fellow pilots begin bombing, the colonels changed course and headed for Malta, according to Al Jazeera.
LIBYA: Colonels defected to Malta rather than bomb protesters | Babylon & Beyond | Los Angeles Times

So if the Gadhafy government is overthrown, what do we get? Something more like democracy? Or another militant Muslim theocracy?

 

[Foxfyre]

I thought we killed Gaddafi's son years ago, I guess he had more than one.

We did inadvertently kill one of his kids in a bombing raid following a Lybian terrorist attack on a bar where Americans congregated. Reagan had warned them and he was the type to follow through and did. And that did a tremendous amount of good as we didn't hear squat from Lybia after that.

I do think that terrorists and international bullies do not respond to kindness, reason, forgiveness or any of the normal human virtues. But they do understand obliteration and generally back off when their choice is to back off or be obliterated.

And this cannot be applied to Somalia?

Not sure Huggy. It isn't the Somalian government that is doing the piracy when it was almost certainly the Lybian government ordering the terrorism. So I don't know if the same criteria applies but it would give the Somalian government incentive to do something about the pirates if we got a lot tougher.

 

[Foxfyre]

Are we moving to the brink of World War III?

We're moving to WW IV - I would count the Cold War as III, given the consumption of resources to support it.

I tend to agree, but since the cold war didn't get the actual title, I think we're stuck with WWIII at the moment.

 

[Richard-H]

I do think that terrorists and international bullies do not respond to kindness, reason, forgiveness or any of the normal human virtues. But they do understand obliteration and generally back off when their choice is to back off or be obliterated.

Funny, but that's how a lot of us feel about the Governor of Wisconson right now...

 

[HUGGY]

We did inadvertently kill one of his kids in a bombing raid following a Lybian terrorist attack on a bar where Americans congregated. Reagan had warned them and he was the type to follow through and did. And that did a tremendous amount of good as we didn't hear squat from Lybia after that.

I do think that terrorists and international bullies do not respond to kindness, reason, forgiveness or any of the normal human virtues. But they do understand obliteration and generally back off when their choice is to back off or be obliterated.

And this cannot be applied to Somalia?

Not sure Huggy. It isn't the Somalian government that is doing the piracy when it was almost certainly the Lybian government ordering the terrorism. So I don't know if the same criteria applies but it would give the Somalian government incentive to do something about the pirates if we got a lot tougher.

Well... The Afghan government didn't send the 9/11 perpetrators either. Neither did the Taliban. It seems to me we are punishing the Taliban quite rightly for providing safe haven for Al Quaida much like the Somalis are providing for these TERRORISTS. How many of these hijackings and kidnappings does it take for them to be OFFICIALLY designated terrorists? Why would we be afraid to defend Americans ANYWHERE on the planet? Has the Taliban threatened America? If anything the price of oil is certainly rising because there is a threat to oil shipping there. I say clean the rat fuckers out. They seem to be a bigger and more real threat to American interests than a bunch of rag head fundamentalists out in the mountains of South West Asia.

 

[Foxfyre]

I do think that terrorists and international bullies do not respond to kindness, reason, forgiveness or any of the normal human virtues. But they do understand obliteration and generally back off when their choice is to back off or be obliterated.

Funny, but that's how a lot of us feel about the Governor of Wisconson right now...

Well a lot more of us see him as a hero and a man of courage and principle.

But that too is one of the points of unrest in the world today, and we can only hope that right and virtue emerges the victor. And that means the unions won't get their way on this one.

In the case of Wisconsin, I have no problem picking a side.

In some of these other conflicts, I am torn as I don't want to oust the devil we know in favor of a worse devil as we did with Iran back in the seventies.

Huggy's observations in Afghanistan merit consideration. I don't know whether I will agree with him, but he does have me thinking about and considering his point of view.

 

[boedicca]

I do think that terrorists and international bullies do not respond to kindness, reason, forgiveness or any of the normal human virtues. But they do understand obliteration and generally back off when their choice is to back off or be obliterated.

Funny, but that's how a lot of us feel about the Governor of Wisconson right now...

Funny, that's exactly what a lot of us would expect you foaming at the mouth moonbats to feel. Your moral relativism is beyond disgusting.

 

[Trajan]

since my reply of 01-28-2011, 06:32 PM that said I think we are in 1933.....

due to several issues, the salient ones being; hezbollahs final push to take control in Lebanon, Egypts "change", Kims regime carrying on into a new generation, I am advancing my time line to 1934.