Woman defies driving ban in Saudi Arabia

[Coyote]

You need to look deeper, Saudi Arabia is the mother of Islam. Billions of dollars of Saudi money goes to fund Islamic schools and madrassas around the world, including here. Millions of Muslims go to the Kingdom every year to make the pilgrimage to Hajj, lets not even mention all Muslims pray in the direction of the Kingdom every day!!!!!!!

We're like two ships passing in the night here HG - you're not hearing what I said...

Edited to add:

The region called Saudi Arabia gave birth to Islam over 1300 years ago.

The tradition called Wahabi is what made Saudi Arabia what it is today and that came about in the 18th century - a few hundred years ago.

It's the Wahabi's who are pooring all that money into spreading Wahabi around the world. Is Wahabi the mother of Islam? No. Is Saudi Arabia the sacred center of Islam? Not the nation per se.

It would seem that you are the one who is about 2 barrels short of a tanker load.

I find history interesting, and the Wahabi tradition has certainly been very damaging and destructive to Islam.

 

[High_Gravity]

I disagree.

Saudi Arabia is the birth place of Islam, but the Saudi Arabia of then is not the Saudi Arabia of now. The rise of the Wahabi tradition is said to be what effectively ended Islamic exploration into the sciences and education as well as forcing a very radical view of Islam on Muslim countries worldwide. The fact that that tradition became dominant and sprang out of Saudi Arabia does give truth to the claim that Saudi Arabia is the enemy of Islam because Wahabiism has certainly been responsible for a great deal of ignorance and destruction including the destruction of great Islamic artifacts and the artifacts of other religions.

It's not so black and white because it's not an unchanging thing.

You need to look deeper, Saudi Arabia is the mother of Islam. Billions of dollars of Saudi money goes to fund Islamic schools and madrassas around the world, including here. Millions of Muslims go to the Kingdom every year to make the pilgrimage to Hajj, lets not even mention all Muslims pray in the direction of the Kingdom every day!!!!!!!

We're like two ships passing in the night here HG - you're not hearing what I said...

Edited to add:

The region called Saudi Arabia gave birth to Islam over 1300 years ago.

The tradition called Wahabi is what made Saudi Arabia what it is today and that came about in the 18th century - a few hundred years ago.

It's the Wahabi's who are pooring all that money into spreading Wahabi around the world. Is Wahabi the mother of Islam? No. Is Saudi Arabia the sacred center of Islam? Not the nation per se.

I didn't say the Wahhabis were the mother of Islam, but Saudi Arabia holds the Holy sites of Islam, millions of people go there every year for Hajj, and all the Muslims in the world pray in that direction 5 times a day. Lets not even mention the billions of dollars that Saudi funds to Islamic schools all across the world every day who look to the Saudis for curriculum and instruction. I would say they are pretty important and certainly not an "enemy" of Islam.

 

[Coyote]

I think that completely depends, the things we are arguing about here are in Black and white, anyone regardless of religion can read them and debate the issue. Saying the Kingdom is an enemy of Islam is a complete utter black faced lie.

I disagree.

Saudi Arabia is the birth place of Islam, but the Saudi Arabia of then is not the Saudi Arabia of now. The rise of the Wahabi tradition is said to be what effectively ended Islamic exploration into the sciences and education as well as forcing a very radical view of Islam on Muslim countries worldwide. The fact that that tradition became dominant and sprang out of Saudi Arabia does give truth to the claim that Saudi Arabia is the enemy of Islam because Wahabiism has certainly been responsible for a great deal of ignorance and destruction including the destruction of great Islamic artifacts and the artifacts of other religions.

It's not so black and white because it's not an unchanging thing.

Blaming all the ailments of islam on Wahhabism is being ignorant. Iran practices a Shi'ite version of Islam (which according to Ayatollah Khomieni is the "true Islam") that is even more radical in my opinion than Wahhabism. The truth is, something is seriously wrong with Islam.

I'm not.

We're talking about Nox's comment about how Saudi Arabia could be seen as the enemy of Islam.

 

[Nox]

You need to look deeper, Saudi Arabia is the mother of Islam. Billions of dollars of Saudi money goes to fund Islamic schools and madrassas around the world, including here. Millions of Muslims go to the Kingdom every year to make the pilgrimage to Hajj, lets not even mention all Muslims pray in the direction of the Kingdom every day!!!!!!!

Also Usa is making food aid to poor countries : ) how you call it , throw out a sprat to catch a mackerel : ) Saudis are not ally of Chechens , if you dont know anything , just shhhhhhh

 

[Coyote]

You need to look deeper, Saudi Arabia is the mother of Islam. Billions of dollars of Saudi money goes to fund Islamic schools and madrassas around the world, including here. Millions of Muslims go to the Kingdom every year to make the pilgrimage to Hajj, lets not even mention all Muslims pray in the direction of the Kingdom every day!!!!!!!

We're like two ships passing in the night here HG - you're not hearing what I said...

Edited to add:

The region called Saudi Arabia gave birth to Islam over 1300 years ago.

The tradition called Wahabi is what made Saudi Arabia what it is today and that came about in the 18th century - a few hundred years ago.

It's the Wahabi's who are pooring all that money into spreading Wahabi around the world. Is Wahabi the mother of Islam? No. Is Saudi Arabia the sacred center of Islam? Not the nation per se.

I didn't say the Wahhabis were the mother of Islam, but Saudi Arabia holds the Holy sites of Islam, millions of people go there every year for Hajj, and all the Muslims in the world pray in that direction 5 times a day. Lets not even mention the billions of dollars that Saudi funds to Islamic schools all across the world every day who look to the Saudis for curriculum and instruction. I would say they are pretty important and certainly not an "enemy" of Islam.

The Saudi's fund Wahabi. If a tradition is damaging to a faith then I think they could be said to be an "enemy" of that faith regardless of how much money they poor into it.

 

[High_Gravity]

You need to look deeper, Saudi Arabia is the mother of Islam. Billions of dollars of Saudi money goes to fund Islamic schools and madrassas around the world, including here. Millions of Muslims go to the Kingdom every year to make the pilgrimage to Hajj, lets not even mention all Muslims pray in the direction of the Kingdom every day!!!!!!!

Also Usa is making food aid to poor countries : ) how you call it , throw out a sprat to catch a mackerel : ) Saudis are not ally of Chechens , if you dont know anything , just shhhhhhh

Wow what an ungrateful brat you are, Saudis were the first in line to fight the Russians and send money, food and aid to you.

 

[High_Gravity]

We're like two ships passing in the night here HG - you're not hearing what I said...

Edited to add:

The region called Saudi Arabia gave birth to Islam over 1300 years ago.

The tradition called Wahabi is what made Saudi Arabia what it is today and that came about in the 18th century - a few hundred years ago.

It's the Wahabi's who are pooring all that money into spreading Wahabi around the world. Is Wahabi the mother of Islam? No. Is Saudi Arabia the sacred center of Islam? Not the nation per se.

I didn't say the Wahhabis were the mother of Islam, but Saudi Arabia holds the Holy sites of Islam, millions of people go there every year for Hajj, and all the Muslims in the world pray in that direction 5 times a day. Lets not even mention the billions of dollars that Saudi funds to Islamic schools all across the world every day who look to the Saudis for curriculum and instruction. I would say they are pretty important and certainly not an "enemy" of Islam.

The Saudi's fund Wahabi. If a tradition is damaging to a faith then I think they could be said to be an "enemy" of that faith regardless of how much money they poor into it.

If people are being silent and accepting the money and aid than calling the Saudis an enemy is hypocritical.

 

[Nox]

Wow what an ungrateful brat you are, Saudis were the first in line to fight the Russians and send money, food and aid to you.

Nope , they just tried to spread wahhabism in Chechnya mountains and they could not and return their home . There were so much support at the first war and we had destroyed all russian army . But later aids decreased from day to day and today they have zero money and zero support . Where is wahhabis ? and you dont know how much money government pay this region every year to to keep them calm.

 

[Roudy]

You need to look deeper, Saudi Arabia is the mother of Islam. Billions of dollars of Saudi money goes to fund Islamic schools and madrassas around the world, including here. Millions of Muslims go to the Kingdom every year to make the pilgrimage to Hajj, lets not even mention all Muslims pray in the direction of the Kingdom every day!!!!!!!

We're like two ships passing in the night here HG - you're not hearing what I said...

Edited to add:

The region called Saudi Arabia gave birth to Islam over 1300 years ago.

The tradition called Wahabi is what made Saudi Arabia what it is today and that came about in the 18th century - a few hundred years ago.

It's the Wahabi's who are pooring all that money into spreading Wahabi around the world. Is Wahabi the mother of Islam? No. Is Saudi Arabia the sacred center of Islam? Not the nation per se.

It would seem that you are the one who is about 2 barrels short of a tanker load.

I don't see anybody but the Islamic terrorists complaining about "Saudi control of Mecca and Medina".

The entire Muslim world is quite happy in fact, with exception of the Shi'ites.

 

[Coyote]

I didn't say the Wahhabis were the mother of Islam, but Saudi Arabia holds the Holy sites of Islam, millions of people go there every year for Hajj, and all the Muslims in the world pray in that direction 5 times a day. Lets not even mention the billions of dollars that Saudi funds to Islamic schools all across the world every day who look to the Saudis for curriculum and instruction. I would say they are pretty important and certainly not an "enemy" of Islam.

The Saudi's fund Wahabi. If a tradition is damaging to a faith then I think they could be said to be an "enemy" of that faith regardless of how much money they poor into it.

If people are being silent and accepting the money and aid than calling the Saudis an enemy is hypocritical.

I'm not sure how that fits in with what I was saying - I was speak more about a faith in general, not the actions of people.

 

[High_Gravity]

Wow what an ungrateful brat you are, Saudis were the first in line to fight the Russians and send money, food and aid to you.

Nope , they just tried to spread wahhabism in Chechnya mountains and they could not and return their home . There were so much support at the first war and we had destroyed all russian army . But later aids decreased from day to day and today they have zero money and zero support . Where is wahhabis ? and you dont know how much money government pay this region every year to to keep them calm.

Wahhabiasm is a big problem there, you are right. The Saudis still do have alot of influence in Chechnya now though with the money they shell out every year.

 

[High_Gravity]

The Saudi's fund Wahabi. If a tradition is damaging to a faith then I think they could be said to be an "enemy" of that faith regardless of how much money they poor into it.

If people are being silent and accepting the money and aid than calling the Saudis an enemy is hypocritical.

I'm not sure how that fits in with what I was saying - I was speak more about a faith in general, not the actions of people.

I've yet to really hear any Muslim claim the Kingdom is an "enemy of Islam", besides terrorists and Nox.

 

[Hollie]

We're like two ships passing in the night here HG - you're not hearing what I said...

Edited to add:

The region called Saudi Arabia gave birth to Islam over 1300 years ago.

The tradition called Wahabi is what made Saudi Arabia what it is today and that came about in the 18th century - a few hundred years ago.

It's the Wahabi's who are pooring all that money into spreading Wahabi around the world. Is Wahabi the mother of Islam? No. Is Saudi Arabia the sacred center of Islam? Not the nation per se.

I didn't say the Wahhabis were the mother of Islam, but Saudi Arabia holds the Holy sites of Islam, millions of people go there every year for Hajj, and all the Muslims in the world pray in that direction 5 times a day. Lets not even mention the billions of dollars that Saudi funds to Islamic schools all across the world every day who look to the Saudis for curriculum and instruction. I would say they are pretty important and certainly not an "enemy" of Islam.

The Saudi's fund Wahabi. If a tradition is damaging to a faith then I think they could be said to be an "enemy" of that faith regardless of how much money they poor into it.

Wahabbism is often referred to as following a near literal interpretation of islam and the example of muhammud (swish) as the model for humanity. In that sense, wahabbism is the "most authentic" subdivision of islam... as crude, nasty and inflexible as it may be.

I suppose it will be a matter of the islamists in this thread to settle the matter of what is the real islam.

 

[Roudy]

Wow what an ungrateful brat you are, Saudis were the first in line to fight the Russians and send money, food and aid to you.

Nope , they just tried to spread wahhabism in Chechnya mountains and they could not and return their home . There were so much support at the first war and we had destroyed all russian army . But later aids decreased from day to day and today they have zero money and zero support . Where is wahhabis ? and you dont know how much money government pay this region every year to to keep them calm.

Ah Chechen Muslims such nice people, responsible for blowing up trains and schools filled with kids in Russia, and of course, the Boston Bombing. Yeah, it's the Wahhabis, "nothing to do with Islam, move along folks, move along, Islam is a peaceful religion" Ha ha ha. Gimme a break! JIHAD is not a Wahabbi invention.

Beslan school hostage crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Beslan school hostage crisis (also referred to as the Beslan school siege or Beslan massacre)[2][3][4] of early September 2004 lasted three days and involved the capture of over 1,100 people as hostages (including 777 children),[5] ending with the death of over 380 people. The crisis began when a group of armed Islamic separatist militants, mostly Ingush and Chechen, occupied School Number One (SNO) in the town of Beslan, North Ossetia (an autonomous republic in the North Caucasus region of the Russian Federation) on 1 September 2004. The hostage-takers were the Riyadus-Salikhin Battalion, sent by the Chechen separatist warlord Shamil Basayev, who demanded recognition of the independence of Chechnya at the UN and Russian withdrawal from Chechnya. On the third day of the standoff, Russian security forces entered the building with the use of tanks, incendiary rockets and other heavy weapons.[6] At least 334 hostages were killed as a result of the crisis, including 186 children,[7][8] with a significant number of people injured and reported missing.

 

[Coyote]

I didn't say the Wahhabis were the mother of Islam, but Saudi Arabia holds the Holy sites of Islam, millions of people go there every year for Hajj, and all the Muslims in the world pray in that direction 5 times a day. Lets not even mention the billions of dollars that Saudi funds to Islamic schools all across the world every day who look to the Saudis for curriculum and instruction. I would say they are pretty important and certainly not an "enemy" of Islam.

The Saudi's fund Wahabi. If a tradition is damaging to a faith then I think they could be said to be an "enemy" of that faith regardless of how much money they poor into it.

Wahabbism is often referred to as following a near literal interpretation of islam and the example of muhammud (swish) as the model for humanity. In that sense, wahabbism is the "most authentic" subdivision of islam... as crude, nasty and inflexible as it may be.

I suppose it will be a matter of the islamists in this thread to settle the matter of what is the real islam.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if there are any Islamists in this thread but I think that those who are Muslims themselves can best answer it. The rest of us are just guessing and, I suspect most are not at all interested in hearing what Muslims might have to say about their own religion

 

[Roudy]

Wahabbism is often referred to as following a near literal interpretation of islam and the example of muhammud (swish) as the model for humanity. In that sense, wahabbism is the "most authentic" subdivision of islam... as crude, nasty and inflexible as it may be.

I suppose it will be a matter of the islamists in this thread to settle the matter of what is the real islam.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if there are any Islamists in this thread but I think that those who are Muslims themselves can best answer it. The rest of us are just guessing and, I suspect most are not at all interested in hearing what Muslims might have to say about their own religion

Maybe you're guessing or should I say hoping. To most people it's pretty evident.

 

[High_Gravity]

Wahabbism is often referred to as following a near literal interpretation of islam and the example of muhammud (swish) as the model for humanity. In that sense, wahabbism is the "most authentic" subdivision of islam... as crude, nasty and inflexible as it may be.

I suppose it will be a matter of the islamists in this thread to settle the matter of what is the real islam.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if there are any Islamists in this thread but I think that those who are Muslims themselves can best answer it. The rest of us are just guessing and, I suspect most are not at all interested in hearing what Muslims might have to say about their own religion

I'd be interested in hearing from an honest Muslim not a cafeteria Muslim like Nox.

 

[Hollie]

Wahabbism is often referred to as following a near literal interpretation of islam and the example of muhammud (swish) as the model for humanity. In that sense, wahabbism is the "most authentic" subdivision of islam... as crude, nasty and inflexible as it may be.

I suppose it will be a matter of the islamists in this thread to settle the matter of what is the real islam.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if there are any Islamists in this thread but I think that those who are Muslims themselves can best answer it. The rest of us are just guessing and, I suspect most are not at all interested in hearing what Muslims might have to say about their own religion

That's not necessarily true. The overwhelming majority of people in the islamist middle east have no choice as to their religious beliefs. They are indoctrinated from birth about the religion assigned to them. Rote memorization of korans, hadith, etc., does not imply any objective evaluation of the ideology.

 

[High_Gravity]

I don't know if there are any Islamists in this thread but I think that those who are Muslims themselves can best answer it. The rest of us are just guessing and, I suspect most are not at all interested in hearing what Muslims might have to say about their own religion

That's not necessarily true. The overwhelming majority of people in the islamist middle east have no choice as to their religious beliefs. They are indoctrinated from birth about the religion assigned to them. Rote memorization of korans, hadith, etc., does not imply any objective evaluation of the ideology.

And they don't go around picking bits and pieces of Islam that they like and throwing away the rest, thats what people who have never been to the region don't understand.

 

[Roudy]

That's not necessarily true. The overwhelming majority of people in the islamist middle east have no choice as to their religious beliefs. They are indoctrinated from birth about the religion assigned to them. Rote memorization of korans, hadith, etc., does not imply any objective evaluation of the ideology.

And they don't go around picking bits and pieces of Islam that they like and throwing away the rest, thats what people who have never been to the region don't understand.

Well according to Noxious drinking is allowed in Islam.