Wisconsin Unions to Businesses- you are with us or against us, period

[theDoctorisIn]

Well boys, you Teabaggers started this game of hardball. Now you are squeeling like little girls when the opposition joins the game. Too bad, it is going to get tougher. There are a lot more things than just this which can be done legally to create an even meaner environment.

The public unions are welcome to try any such aggressive activities they see fit. I, as a taxpayer, will do everything in my power - along with the rest of the taxpaying public being asked to sustain the public employee's outsized salaries, benefits and pensions - to stop them, and that includes firing them en masse and replacing them outright.

Except that the majority of the "tax paying public" isn't standing with you. You guys are losing the battle of public opinion, and that's what really matters.

This is gonna come back to bite you guys soon.

 

[Synthaholic]

I find nothing objectionable about this.

You don't find it slightly disconcerting that unions are threatening local businesses to support the unions? I do. More than slightly. This is straight from the Andy Stern playbook... "We use the power of persuasion. If that doesn't work, we use the persuasion of power."

Is it any more disconcerting than anti-choice fanatics boycotting a business? Or gun nuts boycotting a business?

What about evangelicals boycotting Disney over their Queer Night?

 

[Dr Grump]

actually yes it is okay and if you cannot see why well, good luck and all that.

So it is OK to give bonuses to execs of companies that aren't performing? hhhmmm..

its a PRIVATE business, what they do is not my concern and its never that cut and dry anyway.

When the govt bails them out it is YOUR business.....

 

[rhodescholar]

Except that the majority of the "tax paying public" isn't standing with you. You guys are losing the battle of public opinion, and that's what really matters.This is gonna come back to bite you guys soon.

The 49% who pay no taxes no doubt agree with you, but the rest who do pay taxes will face a choice:

1-continue raising taxes on a diminishing private sector/tax base that can no longer be squeezed - until the economy collapses

2-reduce spending to rational levels and reduce the public sector costs

Most humans, once the concept is fully explained it, will take option B.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Except that the majority of the "tax paying public" isn't standing with you. You guys are losing the battle of public opinion, and that's what really matters.This is gonna come back to bite you guys soon.

The 49% who pay no taxes no doubt agree with you, but the rest who do pay taxes will face a choice:

1-continue raising taxes on a diminishing private sector/tax base that can no longer be squeezed - until the economy collapses

2-reduce spending to rational levels and reduce the public sector costs

Most humans, once the concept is fully explained it, will take option B.

I know that Conservatives love the "49%" statistic. But it only tells one side of the story.
Those 49% make less than 25,000 dollars a year.

The percentage that pays no income tax is growing because the average American family is making less money than they were before. The richest are getting richer, and the rest of us are getting poorer. You guys talk about how the top 5% pay half the income taxes - but they also make nearly half the income.

You claim to want tax equality in a very unequal world.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I find nothing objectionable about this.

You don't find it slightly disconcerting that unions are threatening local businesses to support the unions? I do. More than slightly. This is straight from the Andy Stern playbook... "We use the power of persuasion. If that doesn't work, we use the persuasion of power."

The most ridiculous thing about this form of outrage is the terms you guys define it by. The "Andy Stern playbook"? You think he wrote it? "Alinsky's rules"?

Seriously, these tactics have been around a whole lot longer than Saul Alinsky and Andy Stern.

These are political tactics that have existed for thousands of years.

Every side in every conflict in the history of mankind has used these tactics.

 

[Jroc]

Uh. Career politicians colluding with public employee unions by negotiating on the same side of the table to extract excessive benefits and campaign donations financed by taxpayers is not a Free Market.

That's capitalism for ya

she prefers it when politicians collude with corporations.... particularly the ones that offshore our jobs.

I agree.. Too much big government, too much power to the politicians leads to "crony Capitalism. We need to shrink the federal government...


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDnT-X2jlQs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDnT-X2jlQs[/ame]

 

[Jroc]

Except that the majority of the "tax paying public" isn't standing with you. You guys are losing the battle of public opinion, and that's what really matters.

This is gonna come back to bite you guys soon.

Yeah...ok..Which is why Obama didn't take any questions on this matter when he had that press conference, you'd think if you were correct he have taken advantage of the situation, but he ignored it. I guess that tells you something about the popularity of these public sector unions

 

[Care4all]

ddon't the teacher's unions negotiate with each school board district separately and NOT the politicians on capital hill? It's each school district that determines what they will agree to with the teachers.

So why is it being said that they negotiate with the big gun politicians?

maybe Chanel, a teacher, could answer this?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Except that the majority of the "tax paying public" isn't standing with you. You guys are losing the battle of public opinion, and that's what really matters.

This is gonna come back to bite you guys soon.

Yeah...ok..Which is why Obama didn't take any questions on this matter when he had that press conference, you'd think if you were correct he have taken advantage of the situation, but he ignored it. I guess that tells you something about the popularity of these public sector unions

Or you know, you could just ask people.

A whole bunch of polling companies did that. They all show more favor for the unions.

But continue believing that all polls against you are biased. See how well that works out.

 

[manifold]

boy·cott
   /ˈbɔɪkɒt/ Show Spelled[boi-kot] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.
to combine in abstaining from, or preventing dealings with, as a means of intimidation or coercion: to boycott a store.
2.
to abstain from buying or using: to boycott foreign products



boy·cott
verb \ˈbȯi-ˌkät\
Definition of BOYCOTT
transitive verb
: to engage in a concerted refusal to have dealings with (as a person, store, or organization) usually to express disapproval or to force acceptance of certain conditions
— boycott noun
— boy·cott·er noun
See boycott defined for English-language learners »
Examples of BOYCOTT

1. plans to boycott American products
2. They boycotted the city's bus system.
3. We boycotted companies that were polluting the environment.

Origin of BOYCOTT
Charles C. Boycott †1897 English land agent in Ireland who was ostracized for refusing to reduce rents
First Known Use: 1880


Boycott - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Charles Boycott - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yup. That's precisely what they're doing.

If I'd known that your confusion was simply that you didn't know what a boycott was, I would've posted this for you myself.

 

[007]

Except that the majority of the "tax paying public" isn't standing with you. You guys are losing the battle of public opinion, and that's what really matters.

This is gonna come back to bite you guys soon.

Yeah...ok..Which is why Obama didn't take any questions on this matter when he had that press conference, you'd think if you were correct he have taken advantage of the situation, but he ignored it. I guess that tells you something about the popularity of these public sector unions

Or you know, you could just ask people.

A whole bunch of polling companies did that. They all show more favor for the unions.

But continue believing that all polls against you are biased. See how well that works out.

I live in Wisconsin, and I've done that. Most everyone I've talked to got so damn sick of the sons a bitchin', militant, union thugs and their radical supporters TRASHING our capitol, (which in large part were just dumbass college students from the UW), I can tell you they lost A LOT of support. No, no polls will tell you that. You have to be here in Wisconsin and speak directly to the locals to find that out. Support for unions here is in the TOILET. They screwed that up by their CONSTANT PROTESTING. People can only take so much of that crap and then they've HAD IT. But don't take my word for it, we'll see just how right I am next election.

 

[georgephillip]

How are Wall Street's polling numbers holding up?

"WORKING AMERICA FIGHTS BACK: To the chagrin of right wingers like Walker, Americans have decided that they don't want to live in a country where their labor rights are destroyed and their children grow up in the most unequal era since the 1920s.

"All over the country, ordinary Americans are fighting back, because they understand that if you want a strong middle class you need organized labor and important social services."

Class War.

Now BOTH sides are fighting.

 

[Stephanie]

LOL, thinkprogress.

"All over the country, ordinary Americans are fighting back, because they understand that if you want a strong middle class you need organized labor and important social services."

We NEED ORGANIZED LABOR.?
no thanks, I don't feel in the mood to be a SLAVE to the Unions.

 

[DaGoose]

LOL, thinkprogress.

"All over the country, ordinary Americans are fighting back, because they understand that if you want a strong middle class you need organized labor and important social services."

We NEED ORGANIZED LABOR.?
no thanks, I don't feel in the mood to be a SLAVE to the Unions.

You don't have to be. But any blue collar worker who claims that they don't benefit from what labor unions have fought (and died) for is completely blind.

.

 

[Stephanie]

LOL, thinkprogress.

"All over the country, ordinary Americans are fighting back, because they understand that if you want a strong middle class you need organized labor and important social services."

We NEED ORGANIZED LABOR.?
no thanks, I don't feel in the mood to be a SLAVE to the Unions.

You don't have to be. But any blue collar worker who claims that they don't benefit from what labor unions have fought (and died) for is completely blind.

.

And died for?

 

[DaGoose]

LOL, thinkprogress.


We NEED ORGANIZED LABOR.?
no thanks, I don't feel in the mood to be a SLAVE to the Unions.

You don't have to be. But any blue collar worker who claims that they don't benefit from what labor unions have fought (and died) for is completely blind.

.

And died for?

Uh-huh. That's correct.

.

 

[Stephanie]

You don't have to be. But any blue collar worker who claims that they don't benefit from what labor unions have fought (and died) for is completely blind.

.

And died for?

Uh-huh. That's correct.

.

ummm umm

 

[Granny]

Yeah...ok..Which is why Obama didn't take any questions on this matter when he had that press conference, you'd think if you were correct he have taken advantage of the situation, but he ignored it. I guess that tells you something about the popularity of these public sector unions

Or you know, you could just ask people.

A whole bunch of polling companies did that. They all show more favor for the unions.

But continue believing that all polls against you are biased. See how well that works out.

I live in Wisconsin, and I've done that. Most everyone I've talked to got so damn sick of the sons a bitchin', militant, union thugs and their radical supporters TRASHING our capitol, (which in large part were just dumbass college students from the UW), I can tell you they lost A LOT of support. No, no polls will tell you that. You have to be here in Wisconsin and speak directly to the locals to find that out. Support for unions here is in the TOILET. They screwed that up by their CONSTANT PROTESTING. People can only take so much of that crap and then they've HAD IT. But don't take my word for it, we'll see just how right I am next election.

Thank you for that, Pale Rider. I was beginning to wonder what the hell was wrong with people in Wisconsin. I think unions are sort of a "way of life" for people up north more so than those in the south. A lot of states are "right to work" states - as they should be - unions are not as strong in the south as they are up north. Everybody has a right to work, but they should not HAVE to be members of unions to exercise that right.

Unions are the cause of a lot of private/public employment problems - but it's just a whole lot easier to blame it on the "rich Republican(s)/corporations." I find it absolutely impossible to get my brain around the idea that there are NO "rich Democrat(s)/corporations." Unions put so many demands on corporations that they don't have all the finances to pay for those demands without making cuts elsewhere - that includes shipping jobs overseas where the work is done cheaper. Management employees are excluded from union membership/benefits -it's the workers who get hurt worse in the long run.

Unions practically guarantee employment - it's hard as hell to fire an employee when a company has to go through all the union rules, regulations, warning steps, etc. So that drunk, bullying, careless, lazy, incompetent employee next to you on the job is going to stay next to you while you work your ass off doing your job and his - unless the company (at great legal expense) is proven correct in firing the idiot. The union? They have no expense because they have the NLRB to provide legal counsel to them - at taxpayer expense. Those corporate legal expenses could go a long way toward giving other employees a raise or better benefits from the company than from the union. Or maybe even hire a couple of new employees who are willing to work for their pay.

Look at your pay stub. How much money is paid out in union dues each year? Ask yourself what you are really getting from your union. Ask yourself what that money could be used for if you had it at your disposal as part of your net income? Is a strike really beneficial to workers? Not so much - companies have a right to replace every worker out on strike with new employees - who can become your permanent replacement.

 

[bodecea]

Trajan, what did you find Soprano-esque about that letter?

It crosses the line into extortion: "prove you're with us, or else!" Anyone sends a business I control any such "demand, my response will be a public release of said letter, with the following reply appended: "GO TO HELL!" What company was that again? I want to send them some business! I'll gladly do business with any firm that refuses to cave to extortion; my kind of people!

It most certainly does not. It would if they said something like..."Support us publically or your business with have an 'unfortunate accident'". THAT would be extortion.

Boycotts...tho they rarely work...are totally legal.