Will more guns create a safer society?

[westwall]

There are plenty of accidents caused by plenty of things, like vehicles for example. We don't make it more difficult to obtain a vehicle though, and driving is not even a constitutional right!

Have you heard of drivers' licenses laws on using headlights, safety belts, emissions or mandatory car safety inspections?

Are cars in the US registered when bought or sold?

If guns had the same level of safety laws as cars, I expect everyone would be quite happy.

Guns are FAR safer than cars.

In the USA 62 million cars kill over 40,000 per year.

800,000 doctors kill 120,000 people per year through medical malpractice, errors in diagnosis and faulty prescriptions.

300,000,000 firearms kill 9000 per year, 80% of that gang related crime that the progressive shills try and use as an excuse to punish the 99.9997% of all LEGAL gun users.

Only a brain dead imbecile would think it proper to ban a tool that prevent 1.4 MILLION crimes every year in the hands of the lawful.

 

[Saigon]

Pzz & Geaux -

I think the two of you have actually come up with a useful analogy here -

by and large people prevented from having an abortion will deliver the child, and will not use another, less effective method to remove it.

Likewise, we know that other methods of killing are so much less effective killing that they are only infrequently used in mass killings, for instance.

Would Columbine or Sandy Hook have happened with knives?

Very probably not, and certainly not with the same death toll.

 

[Geaux4it]

Pzz & Geaux -

I think the two of you have actually come up with a useful analogy here -

by and large people prevented from having an abortion will deliver the child, and will not use another, less effective method to remove it.

Likewise, we know that other methods of killing are so much less effective killing that they are only infrequently used in mass killings, for instance.

Would Columbine or Sandy Hook have happened with knives?

Very probably not, and certainly not with the same death toll.

History tells us, yes

-Geaux-

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School attacks in China 2010 12 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

March 2010[edit]
Main article: Nanping school massacre
On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[7] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping,[8] Fujian province;[9] The attack was widely reported in Chinese media (called 南平实验小学重大凶杀案),[7] sparking fears of copycat crimes.[9] Following a quick trial, Zheng Minsheng was executed about one month later on April 28.[8] Media reported a history of mental health issues, but police stated that Zheng had no history of mental illness, contradicting earlier reports. Zheng said that he performed the attack after being turned down by a girl and suffering "unfair treatment" from the girl's wealthy family.

April 2010[edit]
Just a few hours after the execution of Zheng Minsheng in neighboring Fujian Province,[10] in Leizhou,[11] Guangdong another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[12] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher.[9] Chen Kangbing had been a teacher at a different primary school in Leizhou, but was on sick leave due to mental illness[12][13] He was sentenced to death by a court in Zhanjiang in June.[14]

On April 29 in Taixing,[8] Jiangsu, unemployed 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten[15] and stabbed 28 students and two teachers after stabbing the security guard;[9] most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.[16] The attack was the second in China in just two days.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang,[8] Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation.[9]

May 2010[edit]
An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[8] early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[8][17] The attacker later committed suicide at his house; he was the landlord of the school,[18] Shengshui Temple private kindergarten, and had been involved in an ongoing dispute with the school administrator about when the school would move out of the building.[18]

On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology (海南科技职业学院), a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men[19] charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am;[20] after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously.[20] The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13.[21]

 

[Saigon]

Geaux -

You really do tie yourself into some very, very silly knots with this, don't you??!! My god, you must have cringed as you posted that!

Wow....I mean you found THREE instances in a country of a billion people??!! What rate is that per capita??!!

Firstly, why don't you tell us how many people were killed with knives versus killed with guns in the US last year. Or take the UK for comparison.

Secondly, here is a list of mass killings in the Americas.

List of rampage killers - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Note that in Europe, firearms were used in 9 out of the top 10 incidents.

Note that firearms are used in EVERY case in the Ameicas.

What conclusions would you draw from that?

 

[Ellipsis]

So if abortion is banned, people use other tools, do they?

Are you sure?

Very sure, not the least of those tools being black market doctors and DIY remedies of centuries past.

 

[Saigon]

So if abortion is banned, people use other tools, do they?

Are you sure?

Very sure, not the least of those tools being black market doctors and DIY remedies of centuries past.

Right - and in how many cases are these used?

Would about 1% of the abortion rate by correct?

My god man - is this seriously your best line of reasoning?

 

[Ellipsis]

Are cars in the US registered when bought or sold?

No, they're not.

I'm not sure if you've ever bought or sold a car before but you only have to register it if you're going to use it on public property. No registration, insurance or operator's license is required if it's kept on private land.

Notice also that you don't have to go through a licensed auto dealer to buy or sell a car. Nor is a background check run on anyone at any point in the transaction, even if the car is being sold to a convicted felon guilty of vehicular manslaughter.

 

[Ellipsis]

...Right - and in how many cases are these used?

Would about 1% of the abortion rate by correct?...

That would not be correct. 90% would be closer:

http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/2157/26/5 Myths About “Back Alley” Abortions

Myth #1. Illegal abortions were performed by unlicensed, unskilled hacks.

Prior to legalization, 90 percent of illegal abortions were done by physicians. Most of the remainder were done by nurses, midwives or others with at least some medical training.

The term “back alley” referred not to where abortions were performed, but to how women were instructed to enter the doctor’s office after hours, through the back alley, to avoid arousing neighbors’ suspicions.

An illegal abortion may be called a "back-alley", "backstreet", or "back-yard" abortion.

The wire coat hanger method was a popularly known illegal abortion procedure, although they were not the norm. In fact, Mary Calderone, former medical director of Planned Parenthood, said, in a 1960 printing of the American Journal of Public Health:

"Abortion is no longer a dangerous procedure. This applies not just to therapeutic abortions as performed in hospitals but also to so-called illegal abortions as done by physician. In 1957 there were only 260 deaths in the whole country attributed to abortions of any kind, second, and even more important, the conference [on abortion sponsored by Planned Parenthood] estimated that 90 percent of all illegal abortions are presently being done by physicians. Whatever trouble arises usually arises from self-induced abortions, which comprise approximately 8 percent, or with the very small percentage that go to some kind of non-medical abortionist. Abortion, whether therapeutic or illegal, is in the main no longer dangerous, because it is being done well by physicians."

Unsafe abortion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Saigon]

The defining statistic here is the total homicide rate. If Pezz and Geaux were right, we would see similiar homicide rates in countries with low levels of firearm ownership, because killers would simply find other weapons or buy them illegally.

Except that we do not see that trend - we see precisely the opposite.

US homicide rate: 4.7

UK homicide rate: 1.0

France homicide rate: 1.0

Germany homicide rate: 0.8

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


In other words, restricting the number of firearms in the USA could well see the homicide rate fall 75% within 10 years.

 

[Saigon]

That would not be correct. 90% would be closer:

Really?! Ha! Now that IS funny!!!

And of course you can prove this.....by all means, go right ahead.

Abortion rates per capita:

Russia 19.13
Bulgaria 12.4
Hungary 7.6
Cuba 7.47
Sweden 4.18
Countries Compared by Health Abortions per 1000. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

So according to Pezz, were abortions not available legally in Russia, some 249,300 women would abort their foetus with a coathanger. Interesting...

Strangely enough, only 6% of abortions performed in the developed world are considered unsafe. So Pezz seems to be about 84% out. That's also interesting.

 

[Saigon]

Are cars in the US registered when bought or sold?

No, they're not.

I'm not sure if you've ever bought or sold a car before but you only have to register it if you're going to use it on public property. No registration, insurance or operator's license is required if it's kept on private land.

Notice also that you don't have to go through a licensed auto dealer to buy or sell a car. Nor is a background check run on anyone at any point in the transaction, even if the car is being sold to a convicted felon guilty of vehicular manslaughter.

Jesus wept...

Vehicle registration is the (usually) compulsory registration of a vehicle with a government authority. Vehicle registration's purpose is to establish clear ownership and to tax motorists or vehicle owners.

While almost all vehicles are uniquely identified by a vehicle identification number only registered vehicles display a vehicle registration plate and carry a vehicle registration certificate.

Vehicle registration - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Politico]

Oh for chris sake... a firearm is a tool. Ya'll gonna rail about hammers and chainsaws next?

Don't leave out baseball bats, lots of crimes committed with baseball bats.

Don't forget box cutters. I have one and it is angry for some reason (May be a Muslim). It is everything I can do to keep it from hijacking a plane. And don't even get me started on my Beretta. It is constantly trying to jump off my desk and go on a rampage. I may have to perform an exorcism if this behavior continues.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

There are plenty of accidents caused by plenty of things, like vehicles for example. We don't make it more difficult to obtain a vehicle though, and driving is not even a constitutional right!

Have you heard of drivers' licenses laws on using headlights, safety belts, emissions or mandatory car safety inspections?

Are cars in the US registered when bought or sold?

If guns had the same level of safety laws as cars, I expect everyone would be quite happy.

Remember that in the United States, lawful possession of a firearm is a right enshrined in the American Second Amendment, where there is no 'right' to be issued a driver's license or to own a vehicle.

Consequently, a comparison can't be made between registering a motor vehicle and a firearm, as to require that of the latter manifest as an undue burden to exercise the Second Amendment right.

Again, guns are but a symptom of the problem, not the actual problem itself.

 

[Saigon]

There are plenty of accidents caused by plenty of things, like vehicles for example. We don't make it more difficult to obtain a vehicle though, and driving is not even a constitutional right!

Have you heard of drivers' licenses laws on using headlights, safety belts, emissions or mandatory car safety inspections?

Are cars in the US registered when bought or sold?

If guns had the same level of safety laws as cars, I expect everyone would be quite happy.

Remember that in the United States, lawful possession of a firearm is a right enshrined in the American Second Amendment, where there is no 'right' to be issued a driver's license or to own a vehicle.

Consequently, a comparison can't be made between registering a motor vehicle and a firearm, as to require that of the latter manifest as an undue burden to exercise the Second Amendment right.

Again, guns are but a symptom of the problem, not the actual problem itself.

I take your point and agree, by and large, but at the same time, the constitution is NOT a religious document. How many amendements are there already?

To my mind any sane gun-ownership legislation would include licensing of all owners and registration of all weapons, so that it is known who owns what in the event of a crime taking place. Licensing should ensure that the owner can pass a psychogical text and demonstrate gun safety knowledge.

I don't see how that limits the rights of any sane, law abiding person to own a weapon.

 

[Ellipsis]

That would not be correct. 90% would be closer:

Really?! Ha! Now that IS funny!!!

And of course you can prove this.....by all means, go right ahead.

Abortion rates per capita:

Russia 19.13
Bulgaria 12.4
Hungary 7.6
Cuba 7.47
Sweden 4.18
Countries Compared by Health Abortions per 1000. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

So according to Pezz, were abortions not available legally in Russia, some 249,300 women would abort their foetus with a coathanger. Interesting...

Strangely enough, only 6% of abortions performed in the developed world are considered unsafe. So Pezz seems to be about 84% out. That's also interesting.

Pidgin holing doesn't serve you. This conversation is about the United States.

 

[Ellipsis]

Jesus wept...

I'm Buddhist. If Jesus is upset I would be happy to accompany him through a calming breathing technique.

 

[ChrisL]

There are plenty of accidents caused by plenty of things, like vehicles for example. We don't make it more difficult to obtain a vehicle though, and driving is not even a constitutional right!

Have you heard of drivers' licenses laws on using headlights, safety belts, emissions or mandatory car safety inspections?

Are cars in the US registered when bought or sold?

If guns had the same level of safety laws as cars, I expect everyone would be quite happy.

There are already plenty of laws with regards to guns too, AND you are ignoring that the fact that is a constitutional right. That makes ALL the difference.

 

[Roadrunner]

There are plenty of accidents caused by plenty of things, like vehicles for example. We don't make it more difficult to obtain a vehicle though, and driving is not even a constitutional right!

Have you heard of drivers' licenses laws on using headlights, safety belts, emissions or mandatory car safety inspections?

Are cars in the US registered when bought or sold?

If guns had the same level of safety laws as cars, I expect everyone would be quite happy.

Remember that in the United States, lawful possession of a firearm is a right enshrined in the American Second Amendment, where there is no 'right' to be issued a driver's license or to own a vehicle.

Consequently, a comparison can't be made between registering a motor vehicle and a firearm, as to require that of the latter manifest as an undue burden to exercise the Second Amendment right.

Again, guns are but a symptom of the problem, not the actual problem itself.

I take your point and agree, by and large, but at the same time, the constitution is NOT a religious document. How many amendements are there already?

To my mind any sane gun-ownership legislation would include licensing of all owners and registration of all weapons, so that it is known who owns what in the event of a crime taking place. Licensing should ensure that the owner can pass a psychogical text and demonstrate gun safety knowledge.

I don't see how that limits the rights of any sane, law abiding person to own a weapon.

How does this address the problem of crimes committed with stolen guns?

 

[Roadrunner]

There are plenty of accidents caused by plenty of things, like vehicles for example. We don't make it more difficult to obtain a vehicle though, and driving is not even a constitutional right!

Have you heard of drivers' licenses laws on using headlights, safety belts, emissions or mandatory car safety inspections?

Are cars in the US registered when bought or sold?

If guns had the same level of safety laws as cars, I expect everyone would be quite happy.

There are already plenty of laws with regards to guns too, AND you are ignoring that the fact that is a constitutional right. That makes ALL the difference.

The Constitution is a rag to libs, except the part where it says abortion is like, so cool.

 

[ChrisL]

" Each day in the U.S., firearms kill an average of 10 children and teens"

People kill people, not firearms. Firearms are just the tool used. Like banning abortion, banning firearms will just change the way murders are carried out, not reduce the number of murders which occure.

So if abortion is banned, people use other tools, do they?

Are you sure?

Yes they do and have for centuries. Back in ancient times there were actually herbs that could induce abortion. Besides, none of these analogies even matter, as the 2nd Amendment is a constitutional right. Abortion, driving, etc. are NOT.