Will eliminating "don't ask-don't tell" improve the military?

[SFC Ollie]

Well I imposed the view that I didn't want any of my troops to die in combat.

The military is not anything like civilian life. There are many many rules and regulations that if they were imposed upon civilians there would be an armed uprising. DADT is one of thousands such regulations. And it needs to be left alone. It works, it allows gays who want to serve to do so without jeopardizing themselves or others.

And gays have as much right to talk about banging a girl as anyone else does. Which type of talk is frowned upon in todays military. Never know when one of the female troops can overhear. And yes they do complain about it.

So many think it will be so easy, just repeal it and write a new regulation. You haven't a clue.

 

[Father Time]

Easy.....who the hell cares??

Guess what? Kids go to college all the time and are assigned gay roomates. Are you saying the delicate sensitivities of our Armed Forces are worse than some liberal, sissyfied college student?

SFC Ollie, what makes you think there are no gays in the service now?

No doubt that there are, And as long as they do not identify themselves as such no one will ever care. They do not need special treatment and special rules to serve.

It's not special treatment repealing DADT would give them the same treatment as everyone else.

Why do so many people insist that treating everyone the same is special treatment for some?

 

[G.T.]

Well I imposed the view that I didn't want any of my troops to die in combat.

The military is not anything like civilian life. There are many many rules and regulations that if they were imposed upon civilians there would be an armed uprising. DADT is one of thousands such regulations. And it needs to be left alone. It works, it allows gays who want to serve to do so without jeopardizing themselves or others.

And gays have as much right to talk about banging a girl as anyone else does. Which type of talk is frowned upon in todays military. Never know when one of the female troops can overhear. And yes they do complain about it.

So many think it will be so easy, just repeal it and write a new regulation. You haven't a clue.

Well, these anti-Gay people who would have this big to-do about it, sure have some fuckin feminine sensibilities, I can tell you that.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well I imposed the view that I didn't want any of my troops to die in combat.

The military is not anything like civilian life. There are many many rules and regulations that if they were imposed upon civilians there would be an armed uprising. DADT is one of thousands such regulations. And it needs to be left alone. It works, it allows gays who want to serve to do so without jeopardizing themselves or others.

And gays have as much right to talk about banging a girl as anyone else does. Which type of talk is frowned upon in todays military. Never know when one of the female troops can overhear. And yes they do complain about it.

So many think it will be so easy, just repeal it and write a new regulation. You haven't a clue.

First off you dinosaur delivery boy, remember.......YOU got out in '94, which was a LONG time ago.

Me? I retired in 2002, and saw many views change radically. Currently, most of the people I knew while active duty didn't really care if someone was gay or not, they just cared that they were competent at their job. Besides, some of them are very well qualified and a valuable asset, see Lt. Daniel Choi for that one, he was one of 500 Arabic speaking translators that we had MILITARY WIDE and he was kicked out for being gay.

Someone brought up open showers. Haven't seen an open group shower since I got out of boot camp in '82, all the ships I was stationed on had partitions between individual showers with opaque curtains.

Various barracks I've lived in also had individual showers.

As far as the billeting? Ever hear of good order and discipline? You learn it in the military and you follow the rules, if not, you go to Captain's Mast.

Have I ever served with gays that I knew were gay? Yep. Dudes and women both. Know what made them better military personnel than straights (and yes, they had 1 trait that they excelled at)?

Attention to detail. The military values it (drills it into your skull in boot camp actually), and gays, because of their lifestyle, have a very keen eye for attention to detail.

Nope, repeal DADT and let 'em serve openly.

By the way Rabid Lies, a couple of quick questons..........

1) Did you ever serve active duty in the miitary?

2) Did you ever serve alongside someone you knew was gay?

If not, shut the fuck up, you don't know shit about what you're spewing on these boards.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Leave it up to the Military.

Support for the military deciding the matter was slightly higher among people in the armed forces or who have a family member serving — 65 percent think the military should determine its rules, while 21 percent want Congress to decide and 14 percent are unsure.

Poll: Gays in military not Congress decision - Washington Times

As in previous years, the annual Military Times Poll (linked on Drudge today) reveals that approximately 58% of respondents are opposed to efforts to repeal what the survey described as the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy.” The catchphrase incorrectly labels the 1993 law, Section 654, Title 10, which clearly states that homosexuals are not eligible to be in the military.

Military Times Poll: Troops Oppose Gay Agenda for the Military - Elaine Donnelly - The Tank on National Review Online

 

[rightwinger]

Our view on gays in the military: Historic votes don't assure end to 'don't ask, don't tell' - USATODAY.com

Public opinion has shifted as well. In a Gallup poll in May, 70% of the public —including 53% of self-described conservatives— favored allowing openly gay men and women to serve, up 30 percentage points since 1993.

That's nice but irrelevant. What is relevant is what the commanders think since they're the ones stuck with the policy.

yea...yea and commanders were against integrating the service and were against expanding the roles of women. As usual, they are linked into "this is how we have always done things"

Having openly gay service members has been implemented in other counties effectively. Recent polls of soldiers show them accepting the policy. Like I said in my first post here, I don't think it will help the service significantly and it won't hurt either. It will be one of those things we look back and laugh that we thought it was a big deal at one time

 

[Father Time]

Why should we leave it up to the military? We pay for them.

When we set appropriate boundaries for police officers we certainly don't require the officers approve of them.

 

[The Rabbi]

Why should we leave it up to the military? We pay for them.

When we set appropriate boundaries for police officers we certainly don't require the officers approve of them.

Because they're the ones who are suppsoed to be experts at their jobs, which is killing people and breaking stuff. You don't tell your contractor how to drive a nail or your surgeon where to cut, right? You rely on their expertise. I don't see this as much different.

 

[The Rabbi]

Our view on gays in the military: Historic votes don't assure end to 'don't ask, don't tell' - USATODAY.com

Public opinion has shifted as well. In a Gallup poll in May, 70% of the public —including 53% of self-described conservatives— favored allowing openly gay men and women to serve, up 30 percentage points since 1993.

That's nice but irrelevant. What is relevant is what the commanders think since they're the ones stuck with the policy.

yea...yea and commanders were against integrating the service and were against expanding the roles of women. As usual, they are linked into "this is how we have always done things"

Having openly gay service members has been implemented in other counties effectively. Recent polls of soldiers show them accepting the policy. Like I said in my first post here, I don't think it will help the service significantly and it won't hurt either. It will be one of those things we look back and laugh that we thought it was a big deal at one time

And the commanders were probably right on both counts.
What point are you trying to make by introducing irrelevant facts here?

 

[maineman]

That's nice but irrelevant. What is relevant is what the commanders think since they're the ones stuck with the policy.

yea...yea and commanders were against integrating the service and were against expanding the roles of women. As usual, they are linked into "this is how we have always done things"

Having openly gay service members has been implemented in other counties effectively. Recent polls of soldiers show them accepting the policy. Like I said in my first post here, I don't think it will help the service significantly and it won't hurt either. It will be one of those things we look back and laugh that we thought it was a big deal at one time

And the commanders were probably right on both counts.
What point are you trying to make by introducing irrelevant facts here?

the commanders were "probably right" when they opposed allowing blacks to serve alongside whites in the military??? In what sense can opposing equality be "right" in a nation founded on the belief that all men are created equal?

and since when do men and women in uniform have some veto power over the civilian command authority?

 

[ABikerSailor]

That's nice but irrelevant. What is relevant is what the commanders think since they're the ones stuck with the policy.

yea...yea and commanders were against integrating the service and were against expanding the roles of women. As usual, they are linked into "this is how we have always done things"

Having openly gay service members has been implemented in other counties effectively. Recent polls of soldiers show them accepting the policy. Like I said in my first post here, I don't think it will help the service significantly and it won't hurt either. It will be one of those things we look back and laugh that we thought it was a big deal at one time

And the commanders were probably right on both counts.
What point are you trying to make by introducing irrelevant facts here?

Hey Rabid Lies, Maineman is a retired US Navy Commander, and I'm a retired 20 year Petty Officer First Class.

We've both served with gays, we've both figured out that they really aren't a detriment to the service.

I'd say our 40 plus years of experience trumps your bullshit.

 

[rightwinger]

That's nice but irrelevant. What is relevant is what the commanders think since they're the ones stuck with the policy.

yea...yea and commanders were against integrating the service and were against expanding the roles of women. As usual, they are linked into "this is how we have always done things"

Having openly gay service members has been implemented in other counties effectively. Recent polls of soldiers show them accepting the policy. Like I said in my first post here, I don't think it will help the service significantly and it won't hurt either. It will be one of those things we look back and laugh that we thought it was a big deal at one time

And the commanders were probably right on both counts.
What point are you trying to make by introducing irrelevant facts here?

I'm sorry Rabbi....


I realize now that you are just fucking with us. It has to be either that or you are one of the biggest racist assholes on the board. To claim in the year 2010, oer 50 years after integration that the armed forces were better when they were segregated shows you shouldn't be taken seriously on what you post

 

[ABikerSailor]

yea...yea and commanders were against integrating the service and were against expanding the roles of women. As usual, they are linked into "this is how we have always done things"

Having openly gay service members has been implemented in other counties effectively. Recent polls of soldiers show them accepting the policy. Like I said in my first post here, I don't think it will help the service significantly and it won't hurt either. It will be one of those things we look back and laugh that we thought it was a big deal at one time

And the commanders were probably right on both counts.
What point are you trying to make by introducing irrelevant facts here?

I'm sorry Rabbi....


I realize now that you are just fucking with us. It has to be either that or you are one of the biggest racist assholes on the board. To claim in the year 2010, oer 50 years after integration that the armed forces were better when they were segregated shows you shouldn't be taken seriously on what you post

You know who he should go tell that bullshit to?

A SEAL team. They'd beat his ass until he was hospitalized.

 

[rightwinger]

And the commanders were probably right on both counts.
What point are you trying to make by introducing irrelevant facts here?

I'm sorry Rabbi....


I realize now that you are just fucking with us. It has to be either that or you are one of the biggest racist assholes on the board. To claim in the year 2010, oer 50 years after integration that the armed forces were better when they were segregated shows you shouldn't be taken seriously on what you post

You know who he should go tell that bullshit to?

A SEAL team. They'd beat his ass until he was hospitalized.

A team of cheerleaders would beat his ass

 

[The Rabbi]

yea...yea and commanders were against integrating the service and were against expanding the roles of women. As usual, they are linked into "this is how we have always done things"

Having openly gay service members has been implemented in other counties effectively. Recent polls of soldiers show them accepting the policy. Like I said in my first post here, I don't think it will help the service significantly and it won't hurt either. It will be one of those things we look back and laugh that we thought it was a big deal at one time

And the commanders were probably right on both counts.
What point are you trying to make by introducing irrelevant facts here?

Hey Rabid Lies, Maineman is a retired US Navy Commander, and I'm a retired 20 year Petty Officer First Class.

We've both served with gays, we've both figured out that they really aren't a detriment to the service.

I'd say our 40 plus years of experience trumps your bullshit.

The only thing petty is your attitude. Getting grease gun enemas on a daily basis doesnt qualify you for anything.
I havent expressed an opinion on repealing DADT one way or another btw. My point is the military are the ones qualified to decide if it will benefit them or not.
But you want civilians micro-managing your affairs, go right ahead.
and btw, your foul mouth and lack of content leads me to stick you on iggy. Buh bye.

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm sorry Rabbi....


I realize now that you are just fucking with us. It has to be either that or you are one of the biggest racist assholes on the board. To claim in the year 2010, oer 50 years after integration that the armed forces were better when they were segregated shows you shouldn't be taken seriously on what you post

You know who he should go tell that bullshit to?

A SEAL team. They'd beat his ass until he was hospitalized.

A team of cheerleaders would beat his ass

Look who's talking. A cheerleader would run circles around you intellectually.

 

[Zona]

Easy.....who the hell cares??

Guess what? Kids go to college all the time and are assigned gay roomates. Are you saying the delicate sensitivities of our Armed Forces are worse than some liberal, sissyfied college student?

SFC Ollie, what makes you think there are no gays in the service now?

No doubt that there are, And as long as they do not identify themselves as such no one will ever care. They do not need special treatment and special rules to serve.

Remember when blacks couldn't serve...then when this country said, enough....guys who sound JUST LIKE YOU said, put them in their own quarters. We don't want them sleeping, eating or just living anywhere near us.

Like I said, the old archie bunker types are dying off.

 

[Zona]

So you think it was done to hamper the military from working effectively?

I think it was done because there's an underlying societal taboo against being Gay..... and so the institution followed suit; however, I also feel that the taboo is petty and lacks integrity.

OK. You are entirely welcome to your opinion. So is the opinion that homosexuality is disgusting and foul and contrary to Gd's law.
Do you really want to impose your view on other people?

Republicans: The Party of "Fuck You."

 

[Zona]

That's nice but irrelevant. What is relevant is what the commanders think since they're the ones stuck with the policy.

yea...yea and commanders were against integrating the service and were against expanding the roles of women. As usual, they are linked into "this is how we have always done things"

Having openly gay service members has been implemented in other counties effectively. Recent polls of soldiers show them accepting the policy. Like I said in my first post here, I don't think it will help the service significantly and it won't hurt either. It will be one of those things we look back and laugh that we thought it was a big deal at one time

And the commanders were probably right on both counts.
What point are you trying to make by introducing irrelevant facts here?

Fuck you, you racist, sexist asshole. Seriously, fuck you.

You are a piece of shit living in an old old shameful version of America. You disgrace all service members, including black and female ones.

AGAIN, FUCK YOU RABBI. You went too far on this one.

 

[The Rabbi]

yea...yea and commanders were against integrating the service and were against expanding the roles of women. As usual, they are linked into "this is how we have always done things"

Having openly gay service members has been implemented in other counties effectively. Recent polls of soldiers show them accepting the policy. Like I said in my first post here, I don't think it will help the service significantly and it won't hurt either. It will be one of those things we look back and laugh that we thought it was a big deal at one time

And the commanders were probably right on both counts.
What point are you trying to make by introducing irrelevant facts here?

Fuck you, you racist, sexist asshole. Seriously, fuck you.

You are a piece of shit living in an old old shameful version of America. You disgrace all service members, including black and female ones.

AGAIN, FUCK YOU RABBI. You went too far on this one.

You wouldn't like it. I just lie there.