Will Democratic Senators Read the Health Care Bill Before They Vote Yes?

[txlonghorn]

Will the Republicans read it before they vote no.

The worst of partisan politics is coming out with health care reform.

Everybody agrees we need reform. Why didn't the Republicans do it when they controlled both houses and the Presidency.

The idiots from both parties are not willing to compromise to come up with reform.

Everybody is voting stictly on their party not on practical reform.

Their are many idiots on this thread who cannot think for themselves. They make decisions based on the party that backs it not the substance of the bill.

Why should anybody have to read the whole thing? You only read up to the point where you see something you don't agree with. And then you continue of you want. If you find more that you don't agree with then you ask yourself, do I still want to vote yes? If not, then stop reading and vote "NO". But if you aren't' convinced, then you keep reading.

So it stands to reason that if you read the whole thing and don't have a big enough fundamental and reasonable objection, then you vote yes with a clear conscience. But if you don't read it and there's something or several somethings that you disagree with, then you've just committed a grave error.

But we are dealing with the conscience of a politician now, aren't we? And, since this bill has no bearing on the lifestyle or requirements of those who are voting for it, then what the hell do they care? It won't effect them one bit!! So fuck it! Go play golf and then when it's time to vote, just vote the way your peer group votes.

Actually as a senator you should read it and when you come to something that you don't like offer up an amendment to correct what you see as a problem and then debate it to try and convince others that your amendment is worth their vote. Then you move on to the next concern you have and repeat the process. The bill is NOT seet in stone and can be changed through the amendment process. To say that you have to take the bill and vote on it as is and that it is set in stone is beyond absurd.

The problem that I have seen is that the republicans, based on their "concerns" spewed across the airways over the weekend, have NO REAL CONCERNS.

I have heard. "it's so huge that you can't read it but i know it's bad for america despite the fact that you can't read it to tell what's in it" (not exact quote).

I have heard the arguments about "if you have a plan and want to keep you can" and the right's claims that is not true because they claim that YOUR EMPLOYER could choose to buy insurance for his employers when that would be on YOUR EMPLOYER and have nothing to do with the bill or the plan.

I have heard the argument against a government run system and how it's unconstitutional and bad and yet these same conservative feign support for medicare, a government run system, in a dishonest attempt to scare old people and gain their support.

I have heard the arguments about how RECOMMENDATIONS from a panel is somehow now defined as REQUIREMENTS.

The republicans in congress have no real concerns and are against passing the bill because as they said "this is obama's waterloo" and that if he fails it will be good for republicans and that is all the reasoon they need to oppose it.

Several amendments offered by republicans...NONE of them heard or considered. You clearly are a koolaid drinker to say such an idiotic thing as this:

The republicans in congress have no real concerns and are against passing the bill because as they said "this is obama's waterloo" and that if he fails it will be good for republicans and that is all the reasoon they need to oppose it.

Sleepwalk much?

 

[MaggieMae]

And what makes you think any amendment from a republican is going to be considered? None of the others have! Would people PLEASE stop thinking this bill isn't being shoved under our locked and barricaded doors?

The rules for floor debate in the Senate are different than they are in the House. (Tuck this away somewhere, so you'll know what they're talking about on Day One next week, when they discuss said rules.)

Screen

It's funny that while you seem convinced a bill will get passed, I don't think so. The Senate version is much more Republican-friendly, yet Reid struggled to find 60 Democrats. Once their final bill is merged with the House version (liberal-friendly), I will be shocked if the final bill after conference passes.

yeah, well, we also heard that is was dead on arrival to the senate..sooo...bribes aside, i put nothing past this congress

No, what was said was that the first House Bill (the so-called Kennedy bill) would be DOA when it reached the Senate Finance Committee. And it was.

Actually, you also previously stated that no Republican amendments were allowed, but the Finance Committee's version that went to the full Senate omitted the public option and went with the trigger option, which was Olympia Snow's BIG amendment. There was also a lot of wording that got changed by amendments posed by Republicans, such as the confusion over "death panels" and illegal aliens, etc.

 

[txlonghorn]

Nice but if I read that right obama clearly said that he would not tax those making under $250,000 TO PAY FOR the healthcare plan. If you have insurance or purchase it if you can then you will not be fined and you, if you make under $250,000, are not taxed to pay for the plan. Seems simple enough to me.
This FINE in the form of a tax for those that do not purchase it but could is hardly what any HONEST person would consider what obama was actually talking about.

Furthermore, it's funny that you are trying to claim this fine is seperate from your taxes in one breath and then in the next you are trying to argue that it is a part of the taxes so you can claim that obama lied. LOL Nice contradiction.

Well Dr., I seem to recall that Obama was using the 250K figure for ANY taxation well before the election as part of his campaign BS.

yeah and if I remember correctly his comments referred to no taxes for those under $250,000 TO PAY FOR IT. that is why I ased you for a quote in it's complete context to back up your claim and you failed to provide one to back up your SPIN. Imagine that.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not he's going to tax the middle wealthy or not...it's the fact that over 250K is in his sights. I'm not one of them...mind you. I make WAY less than that. I'm pretty sure I'm safe. As a matter of fact, I'm one of those that will probably have to choose between my health insurance or my kid's education. Or electricity bill. Or house note. Unless I just want to throw chance to the wind and get fined and/or sent to jail.

If it doesn't matter then why did you bring it up?? LOL

It's real easy, pay your taxes or take the chance that you MIGHT get found guilty of tax evasion IF you evading paying your taxes WILFULLY. If you pay your taxes then you have nothing to worry about either way.

Did he or did he not say that healthcare reform would not increase taxes ONE DIME? Or did he say it would only increase the taxes of those over 250K? I think it was the first one. That NO taxes would go up. At least that is what was said in the very early goings. Now, that SO many have asked the 1 trillion dollar question "HOW WILL WE PAY FOR THIS?" , some dancing is going on. Some viewpoints are being changed and some promises are not there anymore. What NEW changes are coming that we have come to expect from this administration? Many promises have been dropped. What's next?

You made the claim I asked you for an exact quote in context and you failed to provide one. Here is another simple task for you, If you can't prove your point then retract it.

Furthermore, it's funny that you are trying to claim this fine is seperate from your taxes in one breath and then in the next you are trying to argue that it is a part of the taxes so you can claim that obama lied. LOL Nice contradiction.

If it doesn't matter then why did you bring it up?? LOL

If you could read the entire post without a kneejerk reaction, you'd understand why I brought it up.

As for a retraction, I submit that I wasn't able to find any exact quote that backs up my claim, so perhaps he never said that taxes wouldn't go up for anyone where healthcare is concerned. Hell, I'm old enough to make a mistake every now and then where memory is involved and unlike some around here, I will admit when I'm off base.

It's real easy, pay your taxes or take the chance that you MIGHT get found guilty of tax evasion IF you evading paying your taxes WILFULLY. If you pay your taxes then you have nothing to worry about either way.

Pay your taxes??? Or pay your insurance premium? Which is it? If it's not a tax, why is it considered tax evasion? I'm just trying to understand the language that is being used here on this subject of healthcare. It seems a bit two sided to me.

 

[txlonghorn]

The rules for floor debate in the Senate are different than they are in the House. (Tuck this away somewhere, so you'll know what they're talking about on Day One next week, when they discuss said rules.)

Screen

It's funny that while you seem convinced a bill will get passed, I don't think so. The Senate version is much more Republican-friendly, yet Reid struggled to find 60 Democrats. Once their final bill is merged with the House version (liberal-friendly), I will be shocked if the final bill after conference passes.

yeah, well, we also heard that is was dead on arrival to the senate..sooo...bribes aside, i put nothing past this congress

No, what was said was that the first House Bill (the so-called Kennedy bill) would be DOA when it reached the Senate Finance Committee. And it was.

maybe it was, but it was also said after the sneek in Saturday vote from the House. That just because it passed the house, it would be DOA on the senate floor. It wasn't.

Actually, you also previously stated that no Republican amendments were allowed, but the Finance Committee's version that went to the full Senate omitted the public option and went with the trigger option, which was Olympia Snow's BIG amendment. There was also a lot of wording that got changed by amendments posed by Republicans, such as the confusion over "death panels" and illegal aliens, etc.[/

QUOTE]

Hardly the "amendments" that many republicans were going for. These were simple and easy things to grant just to get passage.

Trigger option is not much different from public. With way too many loop holes.

 

[MaggieMae]

yeah, well, we also heard that is was dead on arrival to the senate..sooo...bribes aside, i put nothing past this congress

maybe it was, but it was also said after the sneek in Saturday vote from the House. That just because it passed the house, it would be DOA on the senate floor. It wasn't.

Actually, you also previously stated that no Republican amendments were allowed, but the Finance Committee's version that went to the full Senate omitted the public option and went with the trigger option, which was Olympia Snow's BIG amendment. There was also a lot of wording that got changed by amendments posed by Republicans, such as the confusion over "death panels" and illegal aliens, etc.[/

QUOTE]

Hardly the "amendments" that many republicans were going for. These were simple and easy things to grant just to get passage.

Trigger option is not much different from public. With way too many loop holes.

Of course the House bill as finalized isn't dead in its entirety. It's the one that will be used in conference between the House and the Senate. Huh?

I think you need to take Civics 101 and read how Congress works. There's a reason why there is a House and Senate MAJORITY rule. The party in power sets the agenda. Passage of a bill through Congress happens exactly the same way when Republicans are in charge, with the minority Democrats not having a very large voice. It's just the way it is. Deal with it.

 

[drsmith1072]

Why should anybody have to read the whole thing? You only read up to the point where you see something you don't agree with. And then you continue of you want. If you find more that you don't agree with then you ask yourself, do I still want to vote yes? If not, then stop reading and vote "NO". But if you aren't' convinced, then you keep reading.

So it stands to reason that if you read the whole thing and don't have a big enough fundamental and reasonable objection, then you vote yes with a clear conscience. But if you don't read it and there's something or several somethings that you disagree with, then you've just committed a grave error.

But we are dealing with the conscience of a politician now, aren't we? And, since this bill has no bearing on the lifestyle or requirements of those who are voting for it, then what the hell do they care? It won't effect them one bit!! So fuck it! Go play golf and then when it's time to vote, just vote the way your peer group votes.

Actually as a senator you should read it and when you come to something that you don't like offer up an amendment to correct what you see as a problem and then debate it to try and convince others that your amendment is worth their vote. Then you move on to the next concern you have and repeat the process. The bill is NOT seet in stone and can be changed through the amendment process. To say that you have to take the bill and vote on it as is and that it is set in stone is beyond absurd.

The problem that I have seen is that the republicans, based on their "concerns" spewed across the airways over the weekend, have NO REAL CONCERNS.

I have heard. "it's so huge that you can't read it but i know it's bad for america despite the fact that you can't read it to tell what's in it" (not exact quote).

I have heard the arguments about "if you have a plan and want to keep you can" and the right's claims that is not true because they claim that YOUR EMPLOYER could choose to buy insurance for his employers when that would be on YOUR EMPLOYER and have nothing to do with the bill or the plan.

I have heard the argument against a government run system and how it's unconstitutional and bad and yet these same conservative feign support for medicare, a government run system, in a dishonest attempt to scare old people and gain their support.

I have heard the arguments about how RECOMMENDATIONS from a panel is somehow now defined as REQUIREMENTS.

The republicans in congress have no real concerns and are against passing the bill because as they said "this is obama's waterloo" and that if he fails it will be good for republicans and that is all the reasoon they need to oppose it.

Several amendments offered by republicans...NONE of them heard or considered. You clearly are a koolaid drinker to say such an idiotic thing as this:

The republicans in congress have no real concerns and are against passing the bill because as they said "this is obama's waterloo" and that if he fails it will be good for republicans and that is all the reasoon they need to oppose it.

Sleepwalk much?

so personal attacks and lame spin are the only responses that you have to offer?? LOL

I stated arguments that I heard over the weekend on the news programs and you can't even respond to them or show any REAL concerns republicans actually have to provide a valid counter argument. all you cna do is spin and attack. imagine that. LOL

P.S. You do know that we are talking about the SENATE bill don't you?? If you do know that to be the case then why do you continually bring up the houise bill??

 

[Maple]

Anyone honestly think they will?

Let me re-phrase... Anyone besides, Ravi and jillian? We know they will say yes...



Senate bill weighs in at 2,074 pages - Live Pulse - POLITICO.com

ahhhhhhhhhhhh- no.

 

[Care4all]

I think it is probably the republicans that needed to read it....the Democrats wrote it so they probably have a good idea on what is in it....but the republicans probably don't know all that is in there, so they should have read it closely...before voting on it, and certainly should read it before voting on the conferenced bill.

 

[MaggieMae]

I think it is probably the republicans that needed to read it....the Democrats wrote it so they probably have a good idea on what is in it....but the republicans probably don't know all that is in there, so they should have read it closely...before voting on it, and certainly should read it before voting on the conferenced bill.

The Republicans will do what they did with all the drafts, as well as the Stimulus Bill. They'll pick out the parts they don't like, then try to say they didn't have time to read it. Um, how can that be?