Will Democratic Senators Read the Health Care Bill Before They Vote Yes?

[txlonghorn]

Will the Republicans read it before they vote no.

The worst of partisan politics is coming out with health care reform.

Everybody agrees we need reform. Why didn't the Republicans do it when they controlled both houses and the Presidency.

The idiots from both parties are not willing to compromise to come up with reform.

Everybody is voting stictly on their party not on practical reform.

Their are many idiots on this thread who cannot think for themselves. They make decisions based on the party that backs it not the substance of the bill.

Why should anybody have to read the whole thing? You only read up to the point where you see something you don't agree with. And then you continue of you want. If you find more that you don't agree with then you ask yourself, do I still want to vote yes? If not, then stop reading and vote "NO". But if you aren't' convinced, then you keep reading.

So it stands to reason that if you read the whole thing and don't have a big enough fundamental and reasonable objection, then you vote yes with a clear conscience. But if you don't read it and there's something or several somethings that you disagree with, then you've just committed a grave error.

But we are dealing with the conscience of a politician now, aren't we? And, since this bill has no bearing on the lifestyle or requirements of those who are voting for it, then what the hell do they care? It won't effect them one bit!! So fuck it! Go play golf and then when it's time to vote, just vote the way your peer group votes.

 

[txlonghorn]

So much for that heart, eh?

I find this kind of thinking very telling.

It has begun to pervade our society that somehow, the exercising of liberty has now begun to be considered selfish.

BTW...I support the right of hospitals to bill patients for services rendered. It is up to the individual to find a way to pay for those services. Even if it amounts to just a $100 per month.

And I support the right of our government to force individuals who carelessly consider only themselves when it comes to situation like this. Situations they have NO control over. IF they are hit by a bus tomorrow, AND cannot afford to pay for their medical care, all US tax payers are hit with it. How is this ANY different that forcing everyone to have insurance?

I think there's got to be a way other than forcing people to have insurance if they don't want it. I don't like that part. I wonder if Congress has considered penalizing someone who refused to get health care insurance ONLY when that person arrives at the emergency room and thereafter such penalties would double with each visit, if any. Or something like that.

Why not just say..."Ouch...broke your arm huh? Sorry...no insurance...no medical attention." Or "I know that your medicine is expensive but if you have no insurance...you get no medication." Or even better..."Sorry...no insurance...you owe $24,335.00 for your operation. You can pay now or we can beat it out of you."

 

[ElmerMudd]

Will the Republicans read it before they vote no.

The worst of partisan politics is coming out with health care reform.

Everybody agrees we need reform. Why didn't the Republicans do it when they controlled both houses and the Presidency.

The idiots from both parties are not willing to compromise to come up with reform.

Everybody is voting stictly on their party not on practical reform.

Their are many idiots on this thread who cannot think for themselves. They make decisions based on the party that backs it not the substance of the bill.

Why should anybody have to read the whole thing? You only read up to the point where you see something you don't agree with. And then you continue of you want. If you find more that you don't agree with then you ask yourself, do I still want to vote yes? If not, then stop reading and vote "NO". But if you aren't' convinced, then you keep reading.

So it stands to reason that if you read the whole thing and don't have a big enough fundamental and reasonable objection, then you vote yes with a clear conscience. But if you don't read it and there's something or several somethings that you disagree with, then you've just committed a grave error.

But we are dealing with the conscience of a politician now, aren't we? And, since this bill has no bearing on the lifestyle or requirements of those who are voting for it, then what the hell do they care? It won't effect them one bit!! So fuck it! Go play golf and then when it's time to vote, just vote the way your peer group votes.

well put

 

[txlonghorn]

Will the Republicans read it before they vote no.

The worst of partisan politics is coming out with health care reform.

Everybody agrees we need reform. Why didn't the Republicans do it when they controlled both houses and the Presidency.

The idiots from both parties are not willing to compromise to come up with reform.

Everybody is voting stictly on their party not on practical reform.

Their are many idiots on this thread who cannot think for themselves. They make decisions based on the party that backs it not the substance of the bill.

Why should anybody have to read the whole thing? You only read up to the point where you see something you don't agree with. And then you continue of you want. If you find more that you don't agree with then you ask yourself, do I still want to vote yes? If not, then stop reading and vote "NO". But if you aren't' convinced, then you keep reading.

So it stands to reason that if you read the whole thing and don't have a big enough fundamental and reasonable objection, then you vote yes with a clear conscience. But if you don't read it and there's something or several somethings that you disagree with, then you've just committed a grave error.

But we are dealing with the conscience of a politician now, aren't we? And, since this bill has no bearing on the lifestyle or requirements of those who are voting for it, then what the hell do they care? It won't effect them one bit!! So fuck it! Go play golf and then when it's time to vote, just vote the way your peer group votes.

well put

Thanks...apparently too well put...they ran like scared cats

 

[slackjawed]

Says the guy who can afford health insurance....

FYI- I do not have health insurance, nor do I seek health care. Try again. You have clearly shown yourself to be one of those who jumps to conclusions and assigns titles and actions to those you do not even know.
I respectfully refedr to my right to hold the opinion that you are a pinhead.

Where will you be treated if you're injured in a car wreck? Get cancer?

I do not want treatment, I have cancer. The treatment I went through was worse than than the cancer. I carry a card signed and notorized telling paramedicics I do not wish to be treated if unable to speak for myself.I learned that lesson after a heart attack and being dragged into the hospital when I could not say no. My choices are my choices. What's to fear, death? I am not afraid of death, everyone dies. Who wants to live forever, not me!
I made this choice for myself because the treatments i was getting were worse than the disease. (not to mention the costs)

 

[MaggieMae]

FYI- I do not have health insurance, nor do I seek health care. Try again. You have clearly shown yourself to be one of those who jumps to conclusions and assigns titles and actions to those you do not even know.
I respectfully refedr to my right to hold the opinion that you are a pinhead.

Where will you be treated if you're injured in a car wreck? Get cancer?

I do not want treatment, I have cancer. The treatment I went through was worse than than the cancer. I carry a card signed and notorized telling paramedicics I do not wish to be treated if unable to speak for myself.I learned that lesson after a heart attack and being dragged into the hospital when I could not say no. My choices are my choices. What's to fear, death? I am not afraid of death, everyone dies. Who wants to live forever, not me!
I made this choice for myself because the treatments i was getting were worse than the disease. (not to mention the costs)

I'm sorry about your illness, and my choice of examples was awful. I too have a clause in my Living Will (as well as a card kept in my wallet) that I do not want any treatment solely meant to keep me alive. Drugs to kill pain, yes. But that said, if by chance I caught my right hand in the garbage disposal, I would want to seek medical treatment. It's not going to kill me, but I would be helpless without my right hand (the left one only there to help out the right one!)

 

[Ame®icano]

Anyone honestly think they will?

Let me re-phrase... Anyone besides, Ravi and jillian? We know they will say yes...



Senate bill weighs in at 2,074 pages - Live Pulse - POLITICO.com

Some will argue that this is just the way things get done in DC. I argue they shouldn't be done this way and especially when it comes to 1/6 of our economy and everyone's health.

The $100 Million Health Care Vote?

If this bill were any good at all this would not be the case. But it isn't and therefore payoffs may determine the deciding votes. This is not right at all.

 

[sarahgop]

111 new agencies. this death bill must be stopped.

 

[txlonghorn]

Ok on the first video it says that if you don't buy insurance you are subject to an additional tax. Then it jumps to the law under the IRS where it says that if you "wilfully" fail to pay your taxes that you could found be guilty of a crime and then pay a fine or go to jail. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't neglecting to pay ones taxes one of the reasons you righties used to attack members of obama's administration?? And now you seem to be taking a view that directly contradicts the right's previous view all so you can once again attack obama.

Why is it that righties seem to believe that they can be on opposing sides of an issue in order to attack obama and still believe that they have any credibility??

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? LOL

Maybe it's because it has been said over and over and over again by the president and many others who are pushing this shit through, that this will NOT be a tax.

Really?? Can I get a quote and a link showing the exact context??

You know, it's one thing to be arrested for tax evasion...but to be arrested because you didn't pay your health care tax???

REALLY????? SERIOUSLY??? Can you explain your problem with this statement?

Actually they are (will be if billpasses as is) both crimes and what was listed as punishment were punishments if you wilfully fail to pay your taxes. if you have a porblem with that complain to the poster who presented it. Based on what was shown they are governed by the same laws so that makes them the same. Tax evasion it the same thing as tax evasion. You choosing not to label one as such proves nothing.

Got any more hypocritical spin??

Sorry I didn't see your reply so I am just now posting this...

Health care plan hits rich with big tax increases
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER
Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:03 AM CST
WASHINGTON (AP) — The typical family would be spared higher taxes from the House Democratic plan to overhaul health care, and their low-income neighbors could come out ahead.

Their wealthy counterparts, however, face big tax increases that could eventually hit future generations of taxpayers who are less wealthy.

The bill is funded largely from a 5.4 percent tax on individuals making more than $500,000 a year and couples making more than $1 million, starting in 2011. The tax increase would hit only 0.3 percent of tax filers, raising $460.5 billion over the next 10 years, according to congressional estimates.

But unlike other income tax rates, the new tax would not be indexed for inflation. As incomes rise over time because of inflation, more families — and more small business owners — would be hit by the tax.

“Twenty years from now, we’re going to see more and more small businesses ensnared into paying higher taxes,” said Rep. Dave Camp of Michigan, the top Republican on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee.

The tax would hit only 1.2 percent of taxpayers who claim business income on their returns, according to the estimates by the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation. But that percentage would grow as business owners’ nominal incomes rise with inflation.

In 2011, a family of four with an income of $800,000 a year would get a $24,000 tax increase, when the new tax is combined with an increase in the top two tax brackets proposed by President Barack Obama and other scheduled tax changes, according to an analysis by Deloitte Tax. That’s a 12.5 percent increase in federal income taxes.

A family of four making $5 million a year would see a $434,500 tax increase, about a 32 percent increase, according to the analysis.

“These are very big numbers and very high effective tax rates,” said Clint Stretch, a tax policy expert at Deloitte Tax.

The new health care tax would come on top of other tax increases for the wealthy proposed by Obama. The top marginal income tax rate now is 35 percent, on income above $372,950. Obama wants to boost the top rate to 39.6 percent in 2011 by allowing some of the tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush to expire.

House Democrats said they are proud that they found a way to finance the health care package largely from a tax on the wealthy. There is, however, little appetite for a millionaire’s tax in the Senate, and some tax experts think it is a mistake to tap only rich people to pay for services used by all.

“If health care is a benefit that is worth having, then it’s worth paying for,” said William Gale, who was an adviser to President George H. W. Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers and is now co-director of the Tax Policy Center. “This gives the impression that it’s only worth having if someone else pays for it.”

Obama promised during the presidential campaign that he would not increase taxes on couples making less than $250,000. However, the health care bill would impose new taxes on people who don’t buy qualified health insurance, including those making less than $250,000 a year.

Under the bill, individuals are required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay penalties, which are described as taxes in the legislation. The penalty would be equal to the cost of an average insurance plan or a 2.5 percent tax on incomes above the standard threshold for filing a tax return, whichever is less. There would be waivers for financial hardships.

To help afford insurance, families with incomes up to four times the federal poverty level would qualify for subsidies. The poverty level for a family of four is $22,050 this year.

Republicans argue that the penalties violate Obama’s tax pledge, and they liken the millionaire’s tax to the Alternative Minimum Tax, which Congress enacted in 1969 to ensure that wealthy Americans cannot use loopholes to avoid paying any income taxes.

The AMT was never indexed for inflation, so Congress must enact a fix each year to spare about 25 million middle-income families from being hit with big tax increases.

“They’re going down the same road by not indexing this tax,” said the Republican lawmaker Camp.

 

[MaggieMae]

Anyone honestly think they will?

Let me re-phrase... Anyone besides, Ravi and jillian? We know they will say yes...



Senate bill weighs in at 2,074 pages - Live Pulse - POLITICO.com

Some will argue that this is just the way things get done in DC. I argue they shouldn't be done this way and especially when it comes to 1/6 of our economy and everyone's health.

The $100 Million Health Care Vote?

If this bill were any good at all this would not be the case. But it isn't and therefore payoffs may determine the deciding votes. This is not right at all.

If the process did NOT work that way, a bill would have been passed long before this, when public opinion was in favor of one (before we got swamped with negative ads). So I would think you should be happy the procedure is long and drawn out.

When a huge policy change like this is proposed, it damned well should take a long time in order to get it right. If the cloture vote tonight allows the bill to be debated by the full Senate, that alone could take several more months because there will be hundreds of amendments offered and each of those will be debated.

 

[MaggieMae]

111 new agencies. this death bill must be stopped.

Izzat you, Gov?

 

[MaggieMae]

Maybe it's because it has been said over and over and over again by the president and many others who are pushing this shit through, that this will NOT be a tax.

Really?? Can I get a quote and a link showing the exact context??

You know, it's one thing to be arrested for tax evasion...but to be arrested because you didn't pay your health care tax???

REALLY????? SERIOUSLY??? Can you explain your problem with this statement?

Actually they are (will be if billpasses as is) both crimes and what was listed as punishment were punishments if you wilfully fail to pay your taxes. if you have a porblem with that complain to the poster who presented it. Based on what was shown they are governed by the same laws so that makes them the same. Tax evasion it the same thing as tax evasion. You choosing not to label one as such proves nothing.

Got any more hypocritical spin??

Sorry I didn't see your reply so I am just now posting this...

Health care plan hits rich with big tax increases
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER
Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:03 AM CST
WASHINGTON (AP) — The typical family would be spared higher taxes from the House Democratic plan to overhaul health care, and their low-income neighbors could come out ahead.

Their wealthy counterparts, however, face big tax increases that could eventually hit future generations of taxpayers who are less wealthy.

The bill is funded largely from a 5.4 percent tax on individuals making more than $500,000 a year and couples making more than $1 million, starting in 2011. The tax increase would hit only 0.3 percent of tax filers, raising $460.5 billion over the next 10 years, according to congressional estimates.

But unlike other income tax rates, the new tax would not be indexed for inflation. As incomes rise over time because of inflation, more families — and more small business owners — would be hit by the tax.

“Twenty years from now, we’re going to see more and more small businesses ensnared into paying higher taxes,” said Rep. Dave Camp of Michigan, the top Republican on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee.

The tax would hit only 1.2 percent of taxpayers who claim business income on their returns, according to the estimates by the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation. But that percentage would grow as business owners’ nominal incomes rise with inflation.

In 2011, a family of four with an income of $800,000 a year would get a $24,000 tax increase, when the new tax is combined with an increase in the top two tax brackets proposed by President Barack Obama and other scheduled tax changes, according to an analysis by Deloitte Tax. That’s a 12.5 percent increase in federal income taxes.

A family of four making $5 million a year would see a $434,500 tax increase, about a 32 percent increase, according to the analysis.

“These are very big numbers and very high effective tax rates,” said Clint Stretch, a tax policy expert at Deloitte Tax.

The new health care tax would come on top of other tax increases for the wealthy proposed by Obama. The top marginal income tax rate now is 35 percent, on income above $372,950. Obama wants to boost the top rate to 39.6 percent in 2011 by allowing some of the tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush to expire.

House Democrats said they are proud that they found a way to finance the health care package largely from a tax on the wealthy. There is, however, little appetite for a millionaire’s tax in the Senate, and some tax experts think it is a mistake to tap only rich people to pay for services used by all.

“If health care is a benefit that is worth having, then it’s worth paying for,” said William Gale, who was an adviser to President George H. W. Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers and is now co-director of the Tax Policy Center. “This gives the impression that it’s only worth having if someone else pays for it.”

Obama promised during the presidential campaign that he would not increase taxes on couples making less than $250,000. However, the health care bill would impose new taxes on people who don’t buy qualified health insurance, including those making less than $250,000 a year.

Under the bill, individuals are required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay penalties, which are described as taxes in the legislation. The penalty would be equal to the cost of an average insurance plan or a 2.5 percent tax on incomes above the standard threshold for filing a tax return, whichever is less. There would be waivers for financial hardships.

To help afford insurance, families with incomes up to four times the federal poverty level would qualify for subsidies. The poverty level for a family of four is $22,050 this year.

Republicans argue that the penalties violate Obama’s tax pledge, and they liken the millionaire’s tax to the Alternative Minimum Tax, which Congress enacted in 1969 to ensure that wealthy Americans cannot use loopholes to avoid paying any income taxes.

The AMT was never indexed for inflation, so Congress must enact a fix each year to spare about 25 million middle-income families from being hit with big tax increases.

“They’re going down the same road by not indexing this tax,” said the Republican lawmaker Camp.

All this stuff ^ is just talking point jibberjabber at this point. If Camp feels strongly about something, he will offer an amendment.

Would people PLEASE stop thinking that even THIS BILL is THE ONE that will be passed?

 

[driveby]

Says the guy who can afford health insurance....

Says the guy who took control of his own life and provided for himself and his family. Something that should be admired, not ridiculed.

Did I say I did not admire you for that? SOME of us have hearts and are willing to provide for those less fortunate, that's all.

Too bad that's not what the democraps are doing ........

 

[drsmith1072]

Maybe it's because it has been said over and over and over again by the president and many others who are pushing this shit through, that this will NOT be a tax.

Really?? Can I get a quote and a link showing the exact context??

You know, it's one thing to be arrested for tax evasion...but to be arrested because you didn't pay your health care tax???

REALLY????? SERIOUSLY??? Can you explain your problem with this statement?

Actually they are (will be if billpasses as is) both crimes and what was listed as punishment were punishments if you wilfully fail to pay your taxes. if you have a porblem with that complain to the poster who presented it. Based on what was shown they are governed by the same laws so that makes them the same. Tax evasion it the same thing as tax evasion. You choosing not to label one as such proves nothing.

Got any more hypocritical spin??

Sorry I didn't see your reply so I am just now posting this...

Health care plan hits rich with big tax increases
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER
Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:03 AM CST
WASHINGTON (AP) — The typical family would be spared higher taxes from the House Democratic plan to overhaul health care, and their low-income neighbors could come out ahead.

Their wealthy counterparts, however, face big tax increases that could eventually hit future generations of taxpayers who are less wealthy.

The bill is funded largely from a 5.4 percent tax on individuals making more than $500,000 a year and couples making more than $1 million, starting in 2011. The tax increase would hit only 0.3 percent of tax filers, raising $460.5 billion over the next 10 years, according to congressional estimates.

But unlike other income tax rates, the new tax would not be indexed for inflation. As incomes rise over time because of inflation, more families — and more small business owners — would be hit by the tax.

“Twenty years from now, we’re going to see more and more small businesses ensnared into paying higher taxes,” said Rep. Dave Camp of Michigan, the top Republican on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee.

The tax would hit only 1.2 percent of taxpayers who claim business income on their returns, according to the estimates by the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation. But that percentage would grow as business owners’ nominal incomes rise with inflation.

In 2011, a family of four with an income of $800,000 a year would get a $24,000 tax increase, when the new tax is combined with an increase in the top two tax brackets proposed by President Barack Obama and other scheduled tax changes, according to an analysis by Deloitte Tax. That’s a 12.5 percent increase in federal income taxes.

A family of four making $5 million a year would see a $434,500 tax increase, about a 32 percent increase, according to the analysis.

“These are very big numbers and very high effective tax rates,” said Clint Stretch, a tax policy expert at Deloitte Tax.

The new health care tax would come on top of other tax increases for the wealthy proposed by Obama. The top marginal income tax rate now is 35 percent, on income above $372,950. Obama wants to boost the top rate to 39.6 percent in 2011 by allowing some of the tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush to expire.

House Democrats said they are proud that they found a way to finance the health care package largely from a tax on the wealthy. There is, however, little appetite for a millionaire’s tax in the Senate, and some tax experts think it is a mistake to tap only rich people to pay for services used by all.

“If health care is a benefit that is worth having, then it’s worth paying for,” said William Gale, who was an adviser to President George H. W. Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers and is now co-director of the Tax Policy Center. “This gives the impression that it’s only worth having if someone else pays for it.”

Obama promised during the presidential campaign that he would not increase taxes on couples making less than $250,000. However, the health care bill would impose new taxes on people who don’t buy qualified health insurance, including those making less than $250,000 a year.

Under the bill, individuals are required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay penalties, which are described as taxes in the legislation. The penalty would be equal to the cost of an average insurance plan or a 2.5 percent tax on incomes above the standard threshold for filing a tax return, whichever is less. There would be waivers for financial hardships.

To help afford insurance, families with incomes up to four times the federal poverty level would qualify for subsidies. The poverty level for a family of four is $22,050 this year.

Republicans argue that the penalties violate Obama’s tax pledge, and they liken the millionaire’s tax to the Alternative Minimum Tax, which Congress enacted in 1969 to ensure that wealthy Americans cannot use loopholes to avoid paying any income taxes.

The AMT was never indexed for inflation, so Congress must enact a fix each year to spare about 25 million middle-income families from being hit with big tax increases.

“They’re going down the same road by not indexing this tax,” said the Republican lawmaker Camp.

Nice but if I read that right obama clearly said that he would not tax those making under $250,000 TO PAY FOR the healthcare plan. If you have insurance or purchase it if you can then you will not be fined and you, if you make under $250,000, are not taxed to pay for the plan. Seems simple enough to me.
This FINE in the form of a tax for those that do not purchase it but could is hardly what any HONEST person would consider what obama was actually talking about.

Furthermore, it's funny that you are trying to claim this fine is seperate from your taxes in one breath and then in the next you are trying to argue that it is a part of the taxes so you can claim that obama lied. LOL Nice contradiction.

 

[txlonghorn]

Really?? Can I get a quote and a link showing the exact context??



Actually they are (will be if billpasses as is) both crimes and what was listed as punishment were punishments if you wilfully fail to pay your taxes. if you have a porblem with that complain to the poster who presented it. Based on what was shown they are governed by the same laws so that makes them the same. Tax evasion it the same thing as tax evasion. You choosing not to label one as such proves nothing.

Got any more hypocritical spin??

Sorry I didn't see your reply so I am just now posting this...

Health care plan hits rich with big tax increases
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER
Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:03 AM CST
WASHINGTON (AP) — The typical family would be spared higher taxes from the House Democratic plan to overhaul health care, and their low-income neighbors could come out ahead.

Their wealthy counterparts, however, face big tax increases that could eventually hit future generations of taxpayers who are less wealthy.

The bill is funded largely from a 5.4 percent tax on individuals making more than $500,000 a year and couples making more than $1 million, starting in 2011. The tax increase would hit only 0.3 percent of tax filers, raising $460.5 billion over the next 10 years, according to congressional estimates.

But unlike other income tax rates, the new tax would not be indexed for inflation. As incomes rise over time because of inflation, more families — and more small business owners — would be hit by the tax.

“Twenty years from now, we’re going to see more and more small businesses ensnared into paying higher taxes,” said Rep. Dave Camp of Michigan, the top Republican on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee.

The tax would hit only 1.2 percent of taxpayers who claim business income on their returns, according to the estimates by the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation. But that percentage would grow as business owners’ nominal incomes rise with inflation.

In 2011, a family of four with an income of $800,000 a year would get a $24,000 tax increase, when the new tax is combined with an increase in the top two tax brackets proposed by President Barack Obama and other scheduled tax changes, according to an analysis by Deloitte Tax. That’s a 12.5 percent increase in federal income taxes.

A family of four making $5 million a year would see a $434,500 tax increase, about a 32 percent increase, according to the analysis.

“These are very big numbers and very high effective tax rates,” said Clint Stretch, a tax policy expert at Deloitte Tax.

The new health care tax would come on top of other tax increases for the wealthy proposed by Obama. The top marginal income tax rate now is 35 percent, on income above $372,950. Obama wants to boost the top rate to 39.6 percent in 2011 by allowing some of the tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush to expire.

House Democrats said they are proud that they found a way to finance the health care package largely from a tax on the wealthy. There is, however, little appetite for a millionaire’s tax in the Senate, and some tax experts think it is a mistake to tap only rich people to pay for services used by all.

“If health care is a benefit that is worth having, then it’s worth paying for,” said William Gale, who was an adviser to President George H. W. Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers and is now co-director of the Tax Policy Center. “This gives the impression that it’s only worth having if someone else pays for it.”

Obama promised during the presidential campaign that he would not increase taxes on couples making less than $250,000. However, the health care bill would impose new taxes on people who don’t buy qualified health insurance, including those making less than $250,000 a year.

Under the bill, individuals are required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay penalties, which are described as taxes in the legislation. The penalty would be equal to the cost of an average insurance plan or a 2.5 percent tax on incomes above the standard threshold for filing a tax return, whichever is less. There would be waivers for financial hardships.

To help afford insurance, families with incomes up to four times the federal poverty level would qualify for subsidies. The poverty level for a family of four is $22,050 this year.

Republicans argue that the penalties violate Obama’s tax pledge, and they liken the millionaire’s tax to the Alternative Minimum Tax, which Congress enacted in 1969 to ensure that wealthy Americans cannot use loopholes to avoid paying any income taxes.

The AMT was never indexed for inflation, so Congress must enact a fix each year to spare about 25 million middle-income families from being hit with big tax increases.

“They’re going down the same road by not indexing this tax,” said the Republican lawmaker Camp.

Nice but if I read that right obama clearly said that he would not tax those making under $250,000 TO PAY FOR the healthcare plan. If you have insurance or purchase it if you can then you will not be fined and you, if you make under $250,000, are not taxed to pay for the plan. Seems simple enough to me.
This FINE in the form of a tax for those that do not purchase it but could is hardly what any HONEST person would consider what obama was actually talking about.

Furthermore, it's funny that you are trying to claim this fine is seperate from your taxes in one breath and then in the next you are trying to argue that it is a part of the taxes so you can claim that obama lied. LOL Nice contradiction.

Well Dr., I seem to recall that Obama was using the 250K figure for ANY taxation well before the election as part of his campaign BS.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not he's going to tax the middle wealthy or not...it's the fact that over 250K is in his sights. I'm not one of them...mind you. I make WAY less than that. I'm pretty sure I'm safe. As a matter of fact, I'm one of those that will probably have to choose between my health insurance or my kid's education. Or electricity bill. Or house note. Unless I just want to throw chance to the wind and get fined and/or sent to jail.

Did he or did he not say that healthcare reform would not increase taxes ONE DIME? Or did he say it would only increase the taxes of those over 250K? I think it was the first one. That NO taxes would go up. At least that is what was said in the very early goings. Now, that SO many have asked the 1 trillion dollar question "HOW WILL WE PAY FOR THIS?" , some dancing is going on. Some viewpoints are being changed and some promises are not there anymore. What NEW changes are coming that we have come to expect from this administration? Many promises have been dropped. What's next?

 

[txlonghorn]

Really?? Can I get a quote and a link showing the exact context??



Actually they are (will be if billpasses as is) both crimes and what was listed as punishment were punishments if you wilfully fail to pay your taxes. if you have a porblem with that complain to the poster who presented it. Based on what was shown they are governed by the same laws so that makes them the same. Tax evasion it the same thing as tax evasion. You choosing not to label one as such proves nothing.

Got any more hypocritical spin??

Sorry I didn't see your reply so I am just now posting this...

Health care plan hits rich with big tax increases
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER
Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:03 AM CST
WASHINGTON (AP) — The typical family would be spared higher taxes from the House Democratic plan to overhaul health care, and their low-income neighbors could come out ahead.

Their wealthy counterparts, however, face big tax increases that could eventually hit future generations of taxpayers who are less wealthy.

The bill is funded largely from a 5.4 percent tax on individuals making more than $500,000 a year and couples making more than $1 million, starting in 2011. The tax increase would hit only 0.3 percent of tax filers, raising $460.5 billion over the next 10 years, according to congressional estimates.

But unlike other income tax rates, the new tax would not be indexed for inflation. As incomes rise over time because of inflation, more families — and more small business owners — would be hit by the tax.

“Twenty years from now, we’re going to see more and more small businesses ensnared into paying higher taxes,” said Rep. Dave Camp of Michigan, the top Republican on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee.

The tax would hit only 1.2 percent of taxpayers who claim business income on their returns, according to the estimates by the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation. But that percentage would grow as business owners’ nominal incomes rise with inflation.

In 2011, a family of four with an income of $800,000 a year would get a $24,000 tax increase, when the new tax is combined with an increase in the top two tax brackets proposed by President Barack Obama and other scheduled tax changes, according to an analysis by Deloitte Tax. That’s a 12.5 percent increase in federal income taxes.

A family of four making $5 million a year would see a $434,500 tax increase, about a 32 percent increase, according to the analysis.

“These are very big numbers and very high effective tax rates,” said Clint Stretch, a tax policy expert at Deloitte Tax.

The new health care tax would come on top of other tax increases for the wealthy proposed by Obama. The top marginal income tax rate now is 35 percent, on income above $372,950. Obama wants to boost the top rate to 39.6 percent in 2011 by allowing some of the tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush to expire.

House Democrats said they are proud that they found a way to finance the health care package largely from a tax on the wealthy. There is, however, little appetite for a millionaire’s tax in the Senate, and some tax experts think it is a mistake to tap only rich people to pay for services used by all.

“If health care is a benefit that is worth having, then it’s worth paying for,” said William Gale, who was an adviser to President George H. W. Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers and is now co-director of the Tax Policy Center. “This gives the impression that it’s only worth having if someone else pays for it.”

Obama promised during the presidential campaign that he would not increase taxes on couples making less than $250,000. However, the health care bill would impose new taxes on people who don’t buy qualified health insurance, including those making less than $250,000 a year.

Under the bill, individuals are required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay penalties, which are described as taxes in the legislation. The penalty would be equal to the cost of an average insurance plan or a 2.5 percent tax on incomes above the standard threshold for filing a tax return, whichever is less. There would be waivers for financial hardships.

To help afford insurance, families with incomes up to four times the federal poverty level would qualify for subsidies. The poverty level for a family of four is $22,050 this year.

Republicans argue that the penalties violate Obama’s tax pledge, and they liken the millionaire’s tax to the Alternative Minimum Tax, which Congress enacted in 1969 to ensure that wealthy Americans cannot use loopholes to avoid paying any income taxes.

The AMT was never indexed for inflation, so Congress must enact a fix each year to spare about 25 million middle-income families from being hit with big tax increases.

“They’re going down the same road by not indexing this tax,” said the Republican lawmaker Camp.

All this stuff ^ is just talking point jibberjabber at this point. If Camp feels strongly about something, he will offer an amendment.

Would people PLEASE stop thinking that even THIS BILL is THE ONE that will be passed?

And what makes you think any amendment from a republican is going to be considered? None of the others have! Would people PLEASE stop thinking this bill isn't being shoved under our locked and barricaded doors?

 

[drsmith1072]

Will the Republicans read it before they vote no.

The worst of partisan politics is coming out with health care reform.

Everybody agrees we need reform. Why didn't the Republicans do it when they controlled both houses and the Presidency.

The idiots from both parties are not willing to compromise to come up with reform.

Everybody is voting stictly on their party not on practical reform.

Their are many idiots on this thread who cannot think for themselves. They make decisions based on the party that backs it not the substance of the bill.

Why should anybody have to read the whole thing? You only read up to the point where you see something you don't agree with. And then you continue of you want. If you find more that you don't agree with then you ask yourself, do I still want to vote yes? If not, then stop reading and vote "NO". But if you aren't' convinced, then you keep reading.

So it stands to reason that if you read the whole thing and don't have a big enough fundamental and reasonable objection, then you vote yes with a clear conscience. But if you don't read it and there's something or several somethings that you disagree with, then you've just committed a grave error.

But we are dealing with the conscience of a politician now, aren't we? And, since this bill has no bearing on the lifestyle or requirements of those who are voting for it, then what the hell do they care? It won't effect them one bit!! So fuck it! Go play golf and then when it's time to vote, just vote the way your peer group votes.

Actually as a senator you should read it and when you come to something that you don't like offer up an amendment to correct what you see as a problem and then debate it to try and convince others that your amendment is worth their vote. Then you move on to the next concern you have and repeat the process. The bill is NOT seet in stone and can be changed through the amendment process. To say that you have to take the bill and vote on it as is and that it is set in stone is beyond absurd.

The problem that I have seen is that the republicans, based on their "concerns" spewed across the airways over the weekend, have NO REAL CONCERNS.

I have heard. "it's so huge that you can't read it but i know it's bad for america despite the fact that you can't read it to tell what's in it" (not exact quote).

I have heard the arguments about "if you have a plan and want to keep you can" and the right's claims that is not true because they claim that YOUR EMPLOYER could choose to buy insurance for his employers when that would be on YOUR EMPLOYER and have nothing to do with the bill or the plan.

I have heard the argument against a government run system and how it's unconstitutional and bad and yet these same conservative feign support for medicare, a government run system, in a dishonest attempt to scare old people and gain their support.

I have heard the arguments about how RECOMMENDATIONS from a panel is somehow now defined as REQUIREMENTS.

The republicans in congress have no real concerns and are against passing the bill because as they said "this is obama's waterloo" and that if he fails it will be good for republicans and that is all the reasoon they need to oppose it.

 

[drsmith1072]

Sorry I didn't see your reply so I am just now posting this...

Health care plan hits rich with big tax increases
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER
Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:03 AM CST
WASHINGTON (AP) — The typical family would be spared higher taxes from the House Democratic plan to overhaul health care, and their low-income neighbors could come out ahead.

Their wealthy counterparts, however, face big tax increases that could eventually hit future generations of taxpayers who are less wealthy.

The bill is funded largely from a 5.4 percent tax on individuals making more than $500,000 a year and couples making more than $1 million, starting in 2011. The tax increase would hit only 0.3 percent of tax filers, raising $460.5 billion over the next 10 years, according to congressional estimates.

But unlike other income tax rates, the new tax would not be indexed for inflation. As incomes rise over time because of inflation, more families — and more small business owners — would be hit by the tax.

“Twenty years from now, we’re going to see more and more small businesses ensnared into paying higher taxes,” said Rep. Dave Camp of Michigan, the top Republican on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee.

The tax would hit only 1.2 percent of taxpayers who claim business income on their returns, according to the estimates by the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation. But that percentage would grow as business owners’ nominal incomes rise with inflation.

In 2011, a family of four with an income of $800,000 a year would get a $24,000 tax increase, when the new tax is combined with an increase in the top two tax brackets proposed by President Barack Obama and other scheduled tax changes, according to an analysis by Deloitte Tax. That’s a 12.5 percent increase in federal income taxes.

A family of four making $5 million a year would see a $434,500 tax increase, about a 32 percent increase, according to the analysis.

“These are very big numbers and very high effective tax rates,” said Clint Stretch, a tax policy expert at Deloitte Tax.

The new health care tax would come on top of other tax increases for the wealthy proposed by Obama. The top marginal income tax rate now is 35 percent, on income above $372,950. Obama wants to boost the top rate to 39.6 percent in 2011 by allowing some of the tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush to expire.

House Democrats said they are proud that they found a way to finance the health care package largely from a tax on the wealthy. There is, however, little appetite for a millionaire’s tax in the Senate, and some tax experts think it is a mistake to tap only rich people to pay for services used by all.

“If health care is a benefit that is worth having, then it’s worth paying for,” said William Gale, who was an adviser to President George H. W. Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers and is now co-director of the Tax Policy Center. “This gives the impression that it’s only worth having if someone else pays for it.”

Obama promised during the presidential campaign that he would not increase taxes on couples making less than $250,000. However, the health care bill would impose new taxes on people who don’t buy qualified health insurance, including those making less than $250,000 a year.

Under the bill, individuals are required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay penalties, which are described as taxes in the legislation. The penalty would be equal to the cost of an average insurance plan or a 2.5 percent tax on incomes above the standard threshold for filing a tax return, whichever is less. There would be waivers for financial hardships.

To help afford insurance, families with incomes up to four times the federal poverty level would qualify for subsidies. The poverty level for a family of four is $22,050 this year.

Republicans argue that the penalties violate Obama’s tax pledge, and they liken the millionaire’s tax to the Alternative Minimum Tax, which Congress enacted in 1969 to ensure that wealthy Americans cannot use loopholes to avoid paying any income taxes.

The AMT was never indexed for inflation, so Congress must enact a fix each year to spare about 25 million middle-income families from being hit with big tax increases.

“They’re going down the same road by not indexing this tax,” said the Republican lawmaker Camp.

Nice but if I read that right obama clearly said that he would not tax those making under $250,000 TO PAY FOR the healthcare plan. If you have insurance or purchase it if you can then you will not be fined and you, if you make under $250,000, are not taxed to pay for the plan. Seems simple enough to me.
This FINE in the form of a tax for those that do not purchase it but could is hardly what any HONEST person would consider what obama was actually talking about.

Furthermore, it's funny that you are trying to claim this fine is seperate from your taxes in one breath and then in the next you are trying to argue that it is a part of the taxes so you can claim that obama lied. LOL Nice contradiction.

Well Dr., I seem to recall that Obama was using the 250K figure for ANY taxation well before the election as part of his campaign BS.

yeah and if I remember correctly his comments referred to no taxes for those under $250,000 TO PAY FOR IT. that is why I ased you for a quote in it's complete context to back up your claim and you failed to provide one to back up your SPIN. Imagine that.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not he's going to tax the middle wealthy or not...it's the fact that over 250K is in his sights. I'm not one of them...mind you. I make WAY less than that. I'm pretty sure I'm safe. As a matter of fact, I'm one of those that will probably have to choose between my health insurance or my kid's education. Or electricity bill. Or house note. Unless I just want to throw chance to the wind and get fined and/or sent to jail.

If it doesn't matter then why did you bring it up?? LOL

It's real easy, pay your taxes or take the chance that you MIGHT get found guilty of tax evasion IF you evading paying your taxes WILFULLY. If you pay your taxes then you have nothing to worry about either way.

Did he or did he not say that healthcare reform would not increase taxes ONE DIME? Or did he say it would only increase the taxes of those over 250K? I think it was the first one. That NO taxes would go up. At least that is what was said in the very early goings. Now, that SO many have asked the 1 trillion dollar question "HOW WILL WE PAY FOR THIS?" , some dancing is going on. Some viewpoints are being changed and some promises are not there anymore. What NEW changes are coming that we have come to expect from this administration? Many promises have been dropped. What's next?

You made the claim I asked you for an exact quote in context and you failed to provide one. Here is another simple task for you, If you can't prove your point then retract it.

Furthermore, it's funny that you are trying to claim this fine is seperate from your taxes in one breath and then in the next you are trying to argue that it is a part of the taxes so you can claim that obama lied. LOL Nice contradiction.

 

[MaggieMae]

Sorry I didn't see your reply so I am just now posting this...

Health care plan hits rich with big tax increases
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER
Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:03 AM CST
WASHINGTON (AP) — The typical family would be spared higher taxes from the House Democratic plan to overhaul health care, and their low-income neighbors could come out ahead.

Their wealthy counterparts, however, face big tax increases that could eventually hit future generations of taxpayers who are less wealthy.

The bill is funded largely from a 5.4 percent tax on individuals making more than $500,000 a year and couples making more than $1 million, starting in 2011. The tax increase would hit only 0.3 percent of tax filers, raising $460.5 billion over the next 10 years, according to congressional estimates.

But unlike other income tax rates, the new tax would not be indexed for inflation. As incomes rise over time because of inflation, more families — and more small business owners — would be hit by the tax.

“Twenty years from now, we’re going to see more and more small businesses ensnared into paying higher taxes,” said Rep. Dave Camp of Michigan, the top Republican on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee.

The tax would hit only 1.2 percent of taxpayers who claim business income on their returns, according to the estimates by the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation. But that percentage would grow as business owners’ nominal incomes rise with inflation.

In 2011, a family of four with an income of $800,000 a year would get a $24,000 tax increase, when the new tax is combined with an increase in the top two tax brackets proposed by President Barack Obama and other scheduled tax changes, according to an analysis by Deloitte Tax. That’s a 12.5 percent increase in federal income taxes.

A family of four making $5 million a year would see a $434,500 tax increase, about a 32 percent increase, according to the analysis.

“These are very big numbers and very high effective tax rates,” said Clint Stretch, a tax policy expert at Deloitte Tax.

The new health care tax would come on top of other tax increases for the wealthy proposed by Obama. The top marginal income tax rate now is 35 percent, on income above $372,950. Obama wants to boost the top rate to 39.6 percent in 2011 by allowing some of the tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush to expire.

House Democrats said they are proud that they found a way to finance the health care package largely from a tax on the wealthy. There is, however, little appetite for a millionaire’s tax in the Senate, and some tax experts think it is a mistake to tap only rich people to pay for services used by all.

“If health care is a benefit that is worth having, then it’s worth paying for,” said William Gale, who was an adviser to President George H. W. Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers and is now co-director of the Tax Policy Center. “This gives the impression that it’s only worth having if someone else pays for it.”

Obama promised during the presidential campaign that he would not increase taxes on couples making less than $250,000. However, the health care bill would impose new taxes on people who don’t buy qualified health insurance, including those making less than $250,000 a year.

Under the bill, individuals are required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay penalties, which are described as taxes in the legislation. The penalty would be equal to the cost of an average insurance plan or a 2.5 percent tax on incomes above the standard threshold for filing a tax return, whichever is less. There would be waivers for financial hardships.

To help afford insurance, families with incomes up to four times the federal poverty level would qualify for subsidies. The poverty level for a family of four is $22,050 this year.

Republicans argue that the penalties violate Obama’s tax pledge, and they liken the millionaire’s tax to the Alternative Minimum Tax, which Congress enacted in 1969 to ensure that wealthy Americans cannot use loopholes to avoid paying any income taxes.

The AMT was never indexed for inflation, so Congress must enact a fix each year to spare about 25 million middle-income families from being hit with big tax increases.

“They’re going down the same road by not indexing this tax,” said the Republican lawmaker Camp.

All this stuff ^ is just talking point jibberjabber at this point. If Camp feels strongly about something, he will offer an amendment.

Would people PLEASE stop thinking that even THIS BILL is THE ONE that will be passed?

And what makes you think any amendment from a republican is going to be considered? None of the others have! Would people PLEASE stop thinking this bill isn't being shoved under our locked and barricaded doors?

The rules for floor debate in the Senate are different than they are in the House. (Tuck this away somewhere, so you'll know what they're talking about on Day One next week, when they discuss said rules.)

Screen

It's funny that while you seem convinced a bill will get passed, I don't think so. The Senate version is much more Republican-friendly, yet Reid struggled to find 60 Democrats. Once their final bill is merged with the House version (liberal-friendly), I will be shocked if the final bill after conference passes.

 

[txlonghorn]

All this stuff ^ is just talking point jibberjabber at this point. If Camp feels strongly about something, he will offer an amendment.

Would people PLEASE stop thinking that even THIS BILL is THE ONE that will be passed?

And what makes you think any amendment from a republican is going to be considered? None of the others have! Would people PLEASE stop thinking this bill isn't being shoved under our locked and barricaded doors?

The rules for floor debate in the Senate are different than they are in the House. (Tuck this away somewhere, so you'll know what they're talking about on Day One next week, when they discuss said rules.)

Screen

It's funny that while you seem convinced a bill will get passed, I don't think so. The Senate version is much more Republican-friendly, yet Reid struggled to find 60 Democrats. Once their final bill is merged with the House version (liberal-friendly), I will be shocked if the final bill after conference passes.

yeah, well, we also heard that is was dead on arrival to the senate..sooo...bribes aside, i put nothing past this congress