Why we need a public option!

[Revere]

If government gives 310,000,000 the same health insurance they give the military, who will be the other people" who pay for it?

There is no bigger cabal than government.

 

[Moon]

Not only does Medicaid deny care, they prohibit you from payong cash for services they deny.

Health insurance for the military is a benefit other people pay for.

Since it comes from taxes, the military people pay for it too.

 

[WillowTree]

the only people who don't pay for it are the 50% who sit at home on they asses spawn 7 chilluns and say gimmmie gimmmmie. they don't pay for shit.

 

[LiberalNut]

You have to get out of your head the notion that people who work for the federal government pay taxes. They don't. They do not give to thetreasury. They take from the treasury. Yeah, some get more or less based on the tax code but in the end, not one federal employee pays federal taxes. Not one.

 

[LiberalNut]

Those chilluns are gonna be voters shit for brains.

 

[WillowTree]

Those chilluns are gonna be voters shit for brains.

yes, we know, dead or alive they izzz gonna vote.

 

[Gadawg73]

havent we had enough healthcare change? why not wait until we can tell if what the government has come up with is a fit for the US? why insist on a public option or single payer or socialized medicine as if health insurance is the most important thing on people's minds?

this couldn't possibly be the average person's top policy concern.

The average person has SOMEONE else paying for their health care.
I am self employed and own 3 businesses. Health care premiums cost me over 40K a year.
I am very, very healthy with NO claims as allI purchase is 10K deductible and have a family of 5. I pay 12K a year for my family.
30 years I paid $500.00 a year, 23 years ago I paid 1.5 K a year. 16 years ago I paid 3K a year, 8 years ago I paid 6K a year and now I pau 12K a year.
Under that UNDISPUTED rise of 15% a year how does a family pay FORTY EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS A FRIGGIN YEAR in health care premiums in 13-14 mor years.
It doubles every 6-7 years my man for the last 30 years.
Explain how that is going to help us in a world economy.
It is time for the American public to wake up ad admit how much we pay for a system that is not even in the top 20 worldwide for HEALTH CARE. Our system is st up FOR DISEASE CARE which is tops in the world. It should be as 4% of the population receives 60% of all health care dollars spent here.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Because its set up as a non profit ffrom the very start fool.


Your brains have been scambled by right wing loonacy.

Since when does lack of profit guarantee people will get all of a needed good they want?

Non-profits do not drive down costs on healthcare. Profits (even for "non profit" insitutions) fuel future growth and improvement in the organization.
The Left does not, cannot, and will not understand this and they continue to see any profit as "obscene" and evidence of criminal wrongdoing.

I never suggested profit was obscene or an example of wrongdoing. Are you suggesting an unhealthy population is good for business?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Is your fall-back position always a non sequitur? Did anyone suggest the government is telling business it can't make a profit?
In fact most insuance companies would not pay for the preventative medicine - saving them money - and in the long haul insurance companies would save by not having to pay for long term care and hospitalization if early detection, early treatments, reduces the need for surgery, in hospital care and specialists.

Why should government tell them to do that?

Never mind that. The scenario is wrong. There is no evidence that expensive diagnostic tests decrease overall health care costs. On the contrary, they drive them up.
Wry Catcher is living in a dream world of "free" health care.

Wry Catcher never suggested "expensive diagnostic tests" were part of preventative health care. If you couldn't lie or build straw men Rabbi, what would you post?

 

[Gadawg73]

Insane healthcare costs is part of the reason that the economy sucks. The sans public option law that was passed does nothing to curb costs. The insurance cabals continue to rape us all.

no, the costs of healthcare have more to do with the basis of our economy than the cause of it's woes. arguably, the bill without a public option could curb those costs, however, people are pulling the repeal lever on one end of the spectrum and the commie invasion lever on the other... like babies... all before the bill can demonstrate if it is a stepping-stone to a solution or a solution itself.

I am all ears as I own 3 businesses.
How do we stop the disease care industry eating 60% of ALL insurance group health care dollars for 4% of the population? Over the last 30 years this has gone from 20% of all dollars to 60% and is still rising. Do you really believe a Republican or Democrat will give up doctor's lobbying $$$? Not a chance my man so tell us how we change that.
What is on the table to stop this? Specifics please?
And also please show me ONE state where tort reform has lowered malpractice premiums on doctors.

 

[antagon]

havent we had enough healthcare change? why not wait until we can tell if what the government has come up with is a fit for the US? why insist on a public option or single payer or socialized medicine as if health insurance is the most important thing on people's minds?

this couldn't possibly be the average person's top policy concern.

The average person has SOMEONE else paying for their health care.
I am self employed and own 3 businesses. Health care premiums cost me over 40K a year.
I am very, very healthy with NO claims as allI purchase is 10K deductible and have a family of 5. I pay 12K a year for my family.
30 years I paid $500.00 a year, 23 years ago I paid 1.5 K a year. 16 years ago I paid 3K a year, 8 years ago I paid 6K a year and now I pau 12K a year.
Under that UNDISPUTED rise of 15% a year how does a family pay FORTY EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS A FRIGGIN YEAR in health care premiums in 13-14 mor years.
It doubles every 6-7 years my man for the last 30 years.
Explain how that is going to help us in a world economy.
It is time for the American public to wake up ad admit how much we pay for a system that is not even in the top 20 worldwide for HEALTH CARE. Our system is st up FOR DISEASE CARE which is tops in the world. It should be as 4% of the population receives 60% of all health care dollars spent here.

i'm in the same boat, minus the kids and the coverages for my workers. i dispute your undisputable 15%/year rise by asking if or how you maintained a family of 5 under your policy for the 30 years in your study.

i dont currently have any coverage for my employees, but this same concern will apply, which i feel the current regulation will address, should i snatch coverage up for them like myself:

it provides for a fixed outline of coverages, or at least more rigidly fixed than the status quo. most people pay a lot toward their care, but they dont pick the coverage out like self-employed and employers do. this is a frustrating process because you have to compare $1500 deductible $15/visit with free preventative care and no deductible prescriptions with $1000 deductible free visits $20 deductible prescriptions and an emergency care waiver. there are no apples to apples out there, and the proposed bill aims to draw that to a close.

doing so will require competition between providers which is currently not available, and which is my argument for why the insurance component is so expensive. the portion of the bill which mandates that people who can ostensibly afford coverage should get coverage is the part which i feel might reduce the cost of care itself, which is currently burdened with a lot of bad debt.

i say lets let it pan out. it's so popular to call shit 'crisis' and a 'collapse' nowadays, that we've become babies about things which truly should take a while to change. are we there yet? are we there yet?

 

[Wry Catcher]

First of all the only way for government to make something 'free' is to get the people providing the service to work for free. That is where the question around 'free' centers. Doctors, nurses, admin staff, they all have to be paid somehow. So when someone says make it 'free' the only solution they are really giving is that they would rather pay for healthcare indirectly through taxes than directly in premiuns or even more directly, right to the provider.

Along with this notion that healthcare ought to be 'free' on the moral basis that everyone needs it I guess is where do you draw the line. If you feel you are entitled to health care, why are you not also entitled to a house? Shelter is just as essential as health care isn't it?

And THAT brings us to how society thinks it should have it's basic needs met. Do you want most of your income taken in taxes in exchange for government essentially taking care of you, or do you want to keep most of your income and decide what's best for you in meeting those needs?

Your argument is ideologically based and one I reject. Taken to the exteme, why do we need police departments or even a military? Why regulate our water? Let s/he who owns the headwaters have sole control?
Most of my income isn't taken by taxes, too much maybe, for that amount which subsidizes the few by the many is objectionable.
But to support the citizenry from a human enemy and the enemy of disease seems perfectly congruent; universal protection provided by a 'war on terror' may even be less suited then universal protection from preventable disease. Of course both 'wars' might be defeated by education, early detection and mitigating the factors which lead to attack, by virus or evil doers. But such a concept might negatively impact those who profit from war and disease.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Free?

Free and universal PREVENTATIVE healtcare. Free education helping to abate unwanted pregnancy, std's; nutrition based disease, heart, diabtes, obesity. Free dental exams and cleaning; free innoculations and physicals leading to early detection; Free treatment for alcohol, drug and tobacco abuse.
Yep FREE. Of course the devil is in the details, and whether private providers contracted with the FEDs or government employees (fed, state or local) provided the services or even retired medical professionals volunteered. And of course taxes would provide the fiscal resources to combat disease. We pay an enormous rate to defend us against all enemies, why not for defense against a deadly virus or disease?

Who's gonna actually PAY for this 'FREE' stuff?

The devil is in the detail. Who pays for the war on terror? And, who profits? The tax payer pays for the war on terror, and the profits are enormous to the few; the tax payer will pick up the cost of free (to each citizen) universal preventative healthcare, and all will benefit.

 

[Wry Catcher]

There are only two ways for an insurance cabal to increase profits.

1. Increase prices.
2. Deny care.

Our insurance cabals do both.

And the wingnuts are brainwashed into parroting their talking points.

Sad, typical, predictable

3. Decrease their operating expenses.

See number 2 to decrease operating expenses.

 

[Liberty]

WC, public option is against the 14th amendment. try again.

edit: I mean 13th amendment.

 

[Wry Catcher]

havent we had enough healthcare change? why not wait until we can tell if what the government has come up with is a fit for the US? why insist on a public option or single payer or socialized medicine as if health insurance is the most important thing on people's minds?

this couldn't possibly be the average person's top policy concern.

Nope, but even you may face an abnormal and uncontrolled cell division, as many Americans learn for the first time everyday.

 

[Gadawg73]

havent we had enough healthcare change? why not wait until we can tell if what the government has come up with is a fit for the US? why insist on a public option or single payer or socialized medicine as if health insurance is the most important thing on people's minds?

this couldn't possibly be the average person's top policy concern.

The average person has SOMEONE else paying for their health care.
I am self employed and own 3 businesses. Health care premiums cost me over 40K a year.
I am very, very healthy with NO claims as allI purchase is 10K deductible and have a family of 5. I pay 12K a year for my family.
30 years I paid $500.00 a year, 23 years ago I paid 1.5 K a year. 16 years ago I paid 3K a year, 8 years ago I paid 6K a year and now I pau 12K a year.
Under that UNDISPUTED rise of 15% a year how does a family pay FORTY EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS A FRIGGIN YEAR in health care premiums in 13-14 mor years.
It doubles every 6-7 years my man for the last 30 years.
Explain how that is going to help us in a world economy.
It is time for the American public to wake up ad admit how much we pay for a system that is not even in the top 20 worldwide for HEALTH CARE. Our system is st up FOR DISEASE CARE which is tops in the world. It should be as 4% of the population receives 60% of all health care dollars spent here.

i'm in the same boat, minus the kids and the coverages for my workers. i dispute your undisputable 15%/year rise by asking if or how you maintained a family of 5 under your policy for the 30 years in your study.

i dont currently have any coverage for my employees, but this same concern will apply, which i feel the current regulation will address, should i snatch coverage up for them like myself:

it provides for a fixed outline of coverages, or at least more rigidly fixed than the status quo. most people pay a lot toward their care, but they dont pick the coverage out like self-employed and employers do. this is a frustrating process because you have to compare $1500 deductible $15/visit with free preventative care and no deductible prescriptions with $1000 deductible free visits $20 deductible prescriptions and an emergency care waiver. there are no apples to apples out there, and the proposed bill aims to draw that to a close.

doing so will require competition between providers which is currently not available, and which is my argument for why the insurance component is so expensive. the portion of the bill which mandates that people who can ostensibly afford coverage should get coverage is the part which i feel might reduce the cost of care itself, which is currently burdened with a lot of bad debt.

i say lets let it pan out. it's so popular to call shit 'crisis' and a 'collapse' nowadays, that we've become babies about things which truly should take a while to change. are we there yet? are we there yet?

National averages for ALL health care rises have been 15% a year for the last 30 years so what is there to dispute?
30 years I had no kids BUT FULL coverage with a $100 deductible.
20 years ago I had 2 kids and a 5K deductible with a limited policy.
Now I have the 10K deductible.
So it averages 15% rise over the years with severely lowering the coverage every year. If I had the SAME coverage I had 30 years ago with NO co-pay and $100 deductible the rises would be 20% ayear and that policy woul run 2k a month NOW for 24K a year.
Now tell us how a new self employed man with a family of 4 at age 30 can afford $600 a month in health care premiums with a 5K deductible? That would cost him close to 8K a year if he has claims.
Health insurance premiums go up 15% a year on average with LESS coverage.
But youfail to address the real issue:
Disease care is what we are funding with our group health care dollars 60% of the time.
Under our current structure insurance companies want to phase out as much health care as they can and focus on the disease care because that is what the doctors want.
And you did not address the 48K a year in 13 years which is what a 15% rise a year does.
Let it pan out? Respectfully, that is not a smart solution. It has been panning out for the last 30 years and what we have NOW is a train wreck.
8 of the 9 disease care costs, that consume 90% of all disease care costs, ARE PREVENTABLE DISEASES.
Fact is the current system is unsustainable. Every business study conducted anywhere states the same obvious fact. Group health insurance disease costs are blank check health care. Medical lobby loves it but it is killing us in a world economy.

 

[antagon]

Insane healthcare costs is part of the reason that the economy sucks. The sans public option law that was passed does nothing to curb costs. The insurance cabals continue to rape us all.

no, the costs of healthcare have more to do with the basis of our economy than the cause of it's woes. arguably, the bill without a public option could curb those costs, however, people are pulling the repeal lever on one end of the spectrum and the commie invasion lever on the other... like babies... all before the bill can demonstrate if it is a stepping-stone to a solution or a solution itself.

I am all ears as I own 3 businesses.
How do we stop the disease care industry eating 60% of ALL insurance group health care dollars for 4% of the population? Over the last 30 years this has gone from 20% of all dollars to 60% and is still rising. Do you really believe a Republican or Democrat will give up doctor's lobbying $$$? Not a chance my man so tell us how we change that.
What is on the table to stop this? Specifics please?
And also please show me ONE state where tort reform has lowered malpractice premiums on doctors.

i'm not a tort reform advocate. side issue, and political id say. the reason why the disease care end is soaking up all of the moola is because they are the ones who require all of the service. to compensate, healthy people are now mandated or taxed to participate in the system to balance out the burden. insurance is a ponzi, but it is also what is required to socialize the burdens of age, sickness, irresponsibility, economic cycles, income disparity, the birth rate, etc, in a way which is remotely possible to achieve without full-blown communism.

with respect to healthcare, this is the coffee that needs to be smelled over the fact that we wont live for ever, but amass a burden on healthcare to try to make it so anyhow. when we get sick or old, we want that safety net for ourselves so we tolerate it for the 4% who are currently riding on it.

this is ponzi magic. aspiring to the wealth of those at the top of the pyramid drives people to come in at the bottom. sympathizing with over-consumers at the 'top' of the care-consumption pyramid seems to drive healthy folks in at the bottom as well. we want the treatment that those top benefactors seem to have, albeit god forbid we get sick or hurt or in an accident or our house burns down or we're unemployed or the bank with our deposit fails, etc.

 

[Gadawg73]

WC, public option is against the 14th amendment. try again.

What is Medicare?

 

[Liberty]

WC, public option is against the 14th amendment. try again.

What is Medicare?

medicare is not forced on others and people are not forced to participate (besides paying taxes). I'll let this lady explain.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1-eBz8hyoE&feature=related[/ame]