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I don't watch news on the boob tube. Unlike you i actually read and form my own opinions. I do not need to step up to the misinformation trough with the rest of you fucking sheep.
That you don't know the difference between earned income and capital gains is your own fault little sheep.
Ahhh. Okay. Sorry. Didn't realize you were a stupid whackjob. Here, since it's so simple, why don't you pick this apart. This is the kind of deal we structure all the time. Since you're so uh "sophisticated" in this regard, it should be easy for you and the aptly named Oddball!
blablablamaumaumauyammeryammeryammer.....
Helpful hint: Even though bloviating text walls, going into excruciating details of the already understood complexities of the IRC, might score you some points with the port and brie set, they don't impress anyone of consequence around here, with the possible exception of yourself....But you've already shown yourself to be insufferably impressed and pleased with yourself, so that one is pretty much a wash.
Fact remains that the rates remain the same, only the abilities to obtain deductions and credits vary.
So in other words, your ass is kicked because you don't understand shit about how high income earners end up paying a lower net percentage. I'm cool with that!
Now of course, the clueless idiots, think it's as simple some moronic bs bumper sticker phrase like "They have the same rates on income and capital gains!" because FOX told them that is the answer.
Which is usually enough to placate the colosallty stupid morons who are clueless about things like defered comp etc... and can't come up with anything better than "Oh yeah?!? Well, uh, er, uh, You're just so impressed with yourself!"
It's okay. It's not like I expected you to come up with anything intelligent, learned or directly addressing the points I brought up.
And btw, if you weren't such a stupidass, you might have picked up on the whole thing about me saying it's not fair to tax high income earners more, solely because they make more.
But of course, being a mindless sheeple who just regurgitates the bs your thoughtmasters tell you, you did what you've been taught. That's fine junior. No surprise there either. Now go turn on Gleen and see what you opinion will be tomorrow! If you don't know, just ask me about any issue. I'll be happy to tell you what your opinion is - cause it's not like you have any of your own anyway...
I don't watch news on the boob tube. Unlike you i actually read and form my own opinions. I do not need to step up to the misinformation trough with the rest of you fucking sheep.
That you don't know the difference between earned income and capital gains is your own fault little sheep.
Ahhh. Okay. Sorry. Didn't realize you were a stupid whackjob. Here, since it's so simple, why don't you pick this apart. This is the kind of deal we structure all the time. Since you're so uh "sophisticated" in this regard, it should be easy for you and the aptly named Oddball!
People with higher incomes have almost always paid less in taxes. Their rate doesn't matter because they have so many more tools at their disposal for avoidance (as opposed to evasion).
For example, we just structured the comp for a partner at a law firm. He'll get a million a year but it's broken down in a few different ways. $200K will come as shares in the firm - which have a guaranteed buyout plus interest for every year he stays. No taxes on that money until he takes it, when it will be offset with other vehicles.
Some will go to the firm's investment fund. Think about the value of that. These guys know who is going to Merge / Acquire etc... before it ever happens. Not that they would ever use that info to their advantage Then there is the retirement account, life insurance etc... which is not taxed until received and then again, it is offset in other ways or put into a trust and not taxed at all.
So he'll end up with an actual income of about $500K. But wait there's more! As a partner, he gets a company car - a Mercedes 500CLS. His Learjet (which isn't as great as a Gulfstream but it's still COOL!) is deductible. So are his phones, computers, membership in the country club and so on.
So even though he uses these things for personal purposes (as well as business of course), he'll get at least another $100K off the top.
Then of course, his wife owns an interior decorating business. She has to buy all kinds of expensive furniture for their home because she uses it as a showcase. Her business loses about $100K for two years and then shows a profit of $20K for one year. That means once every three years they pay an extra $10K in taxes - but 2 out of 3 years, they save $50K in taxes PLUS they get to write of the cost of a lot of their funrinture! (We're talking $30K for a dining room set folks).
So he'll end up paying income taxes on about $350 - $400K. Probably around 20% or so of his income. Now this isn't a bad guy. He's not doing anything wrong. That's just how our tax code is written. The moment I started my own business (a legal recruiting firm), I got a couple dozen deductions you don't get. The more I make, the more I can avoid paying taxes on. It's just how it works.
Now. Can a manager at a retail store making $50K a year afford to defer or divert half their income? Nope. Would they get the same tax breaks if they did? A few but not most of them because they're not a business owner like those 400 people to whom you refer.
Can a small business owner who makes $50K a year do what these folks do? Legally they can but in application, it's probably not practical. They'd starve.
So yes, the tax codes favor the rich. Oh well. As things are picking up for us (the legal biz is benefitting right now), I'm ambivalent. But would I lose sleep over two points on the NET? Not really.
I do find it interesting that the very people who have claimed all our problems would be solved if only we lowered taxes on "job creators", are now complaining about Obama's jobs bill - which is substantially tax cuts.
So Bush's temporary tax cuts were great but Obama's are terrible. Check.
Now you notice how my post is not just whackjob bumper-sticker bullsh1t sold by RW media OR LW media? Just observation of fact which of course, because it doesn't agree with that nice little kindergarten phrase from your memorized soundbites, stirs the implanted reaction.
So since I don't just parrot your cute little mantras, instead of intelligently discussing issues, you cute little whackjobs get your panties in a bunch and start with the petty insults about how "other people" are sheep, unintelligent etc...
So how much deferred income are your taking this year? Do you work with DC or DB? Are you avoiding those pesky 10b's? Doin a lot of work on those 1120's? Do you have a nice GP guaranteed as long as you adhere to your NCA? Or is it more of a GH?
Surely Mensa members like yourselves deal with those hassles every day!
I happen to own my own business that nets over a million a year.
I take a portion of my income as stock dividends. I defer taxes via a safe harbor plan. I invest after tax money to the tune of 50K a year I have a couple deferred comp plans via life insurance and i have several other side ventures as a silent partner.
Don't think you can dazzle me little sheep.
And I don't remember saying anything about tax cuts.
What I do remember is saying that the tax rates (which is what this thread is about by the way) paid on earned income and capital gains are the same for everyone. It's you who seem to have problem with that simple fact and seem to feel the need to prove oh how smart you are.
I've found that the people who have to tell everyone how smart they are usually aren't. So run along little sheep. I'm sure there's a politician on TV right now spouting some rah rah sis-boom-bah that will get you all fired up for the night.
WASHINGTON, D.C.--The 400 highest-earning taxpayers in the U.S. reported a record $105 billion in total adjusted gross income in 2006, but they paid just $18 billion in tax, new Internal Revenue Service figures show. That works out to an average federal income tax bite of 17%--the lowest rate paid by the richest 400 during the 15-year period covered by the IRS statistics. The average federal tax bite on the top 400 was 30% in 1995 and 23% in 2002.
Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com
WASHINGTON, D.C.--The 400 highest-earning taxpayers in the U.S. reported a record $105 billion in total adjusted gross income in 2006, but they paid just $18 billion in tax, new Internal Revenue Service figures show. That works out to an average federal income tax bite of 17%--the lowest rate paid by the richest 400 during the 15-year period covered by the IRS statistics. The average federal tax bite on the top 400 was 30% in 1995 and 23% in 2002.
Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com
They don't pay lower taxes, you confuse the issue, income taxes are based on your income and deductions. The wealthy have already been taxed on their incomes, they are now taxed on their investments, dividends and capitol gains, being that they have already paid taxes on the original money invested ( income taxes), they pay on the profit at a much lower rate. Capitol gains, those held over a year are taxed at 15%. The wealthy, the top 10% pay 70% of all taxes in this country. 46% of americans pay NO income tax what-so-ever. I say tax them, they enjoy the same benefits the rest of us get to pay for, roads, bridges, schools, police, fire etc. They need to have some skin in the game.
" Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, the gospel of envy, it's only virtue is the shared equality of misery." Winston Churchill
" The problem with socialism is that you eventuallly run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.
You tax the wealthy and they don't buy the yacht, the yacht builder goes out of business and lays off all of his employee's now if that is your fix to promote growth in the private sector, then you need to take econ 101, Obama certainly missed this course at Harvard as he is an economic moron.WASHINGTON, D.C.--The 400 highest-earning taxpayers in the U.S. reported a record $105 billion in total adjusted gross income in 2006, but they paid just $18 billion in tax, new Internal Revenue Service figures show. That works out to an average federal income tax bite of 17%--the lowest rate paid by the richest 400 during the 15-year period covered by the IRS statistics. The average federal tax bite on the top 400 was 30% in 1995 and 23% in 2002.
Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com
They don't pay lower taxes, you confuse the issue, income taxes are based on your income and deductions. The wealthy have already been taxed on their incomes, they are now taxed on their investments, dividends and capitol gains, being that they have already paid taxes on the original money invested ( income taxes), they pay on the profit at a much lower rate. Capitol gains, those held over a year are taxed at 15%. The wealthy, the top 10% pay 70% of all taxes in this country. 46% of americans pay NO income tax what-so-ever. I say tax them, they enjoy the same benefits the rest of us get to pay for, roads, bridges, schools, police, fire etc. They need to have some skin in the game.
" Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, the gospel of envy, it's only virtue is the shared equality of misery." Winston Churchill
" The problem with socialism is that you eventuallly run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.
This has nothing to do with creating jobs, in fact, it will cause further unemployment and a further decrease in revenue to the government. The wealthy are responsible for 32 % of consumer spending, you take that away from them, you take it away from the private sector, which is the bill payer's for the nation and the job engine for our economy.
They don't pay lower taxes, you confuse the issue, income taxes are based on your income and deductions. The wealthy have already been taxed on their incomes, they are now taxed on their investments, dividends and capitol gains, being that they have already paid taxes on the original money invested ( income taxes), they pay on the profit at a much lower rate. Capitol gains, those held over a year are taxed at 15%. The wealthy, the top 10% pay 70% of all taxes in this country. 46% of americans pay NO income tax what-so-ever. I say tax them, they enjoy the same benefits the rest of us get to pay for, roads, bridges, schools, police, fire etc. They need to have some skin in the game.
" Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, the gospel of envy, it's only virtue is the shared equality of misery." Winston Churchill
" The problem with socialism is that you eventuallly run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.
This has nothing to do with creating jobs, in fact, it will cause further unemployment and a further decrease in revenue to the government. The wealthy are responsible for 32 % of consumer spending, you take that away from them, you take it away from the private sector, which is the bill payer's for the nation and the job engine for our economy.
He is sure spinning it now- this was during the campaign stating he would not raise taxes during an economic recession, Hello Mr. President we have LOST more jobs since you passed your 787 billion dollar stimulus plan. Then he talks about the 1/2 trillion hole that was left by Bush, I wonder what he thinks about the 4 trillion dollar hole he acomplished in just a couple of years.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7fSZiZG91o&feature=relmfu]Obama Admits His Tax Hikes Would Hurt The Economy - YouTube[/ame]
Nobody is arguing the net effective rate, you overbearing, excessively loquacious gasbag.Ahhh. Okay. Sorry. Didn't realize you were a stupid whackjob. Here, since it's so simple, why don't you pick this apart. This is the kind of deal we structure all the time. Since you're so uh "sophisticated" in this regard, it should be easy for you and the aptly named Oddball!
blablablamaumaumauyammeryammeryammer.....
Helpful hint: Even though bloviating text walls, going into excruciating details of the already understood complexities of the IRC, might score you some points with the port and brie set, they don't impress anyone of consequence around here, with the possible exception of yourself....But you've already shown yourself to be insufferably impressed and pleased with yourself, so that one is pretty much a wash.
Fact remains that the rates remain the same, only the abilities to obtain deductions and credits vary.
So in other words, your ass is kicked because you don't understand shit about how high income earners end up paying a lower net percentage. I'm cool with that!
Now of course, the clueless idiots, think it's as simple some moronic bs bumper sticker phrase like "They have the same rates on income and capital gains!" because FOX told them that is the answer.
Which is usually enough to placate the colosallty stupid morons who are clueless about things like defered comp etc... and can't come up with anything better than "Oh yeah?!? Well, uh, er, uh, You're just so impressed with yourself!"
It's okay. It's not like I expected you to come up with anything intelligent, learned or directly addressing the points I brought up.
And btw, if you weren't such a stupidass, you might have picked up on the whole thing about me saying it's not fair to tax high income earners more, solely because they make more.
But of course, being a mindless sheeple who just regurgitates the bs your thoughtmasters tell you, you did what you've been taught. That's fine junior. No surprise there either. Now go turn on Gleen and see what you opinion will be tomorrow! If you don't know, just ask me about any issue. I'll be happy to tell you what your opinion is - cause it's not like you have any of your own anyway...
WASHINGTON, D.C.--The 400 highest-earning taxpayers in the U.S. reported a record $105 billion in total adjusted gross income in 2006, but they paid just $18 billion in tax, new Internal Revenue Service figures show. That works out to an average federal income tax bite of 17%--the lowest rate paid by the richest 400 during the 15-year period covered by the IRS statistics. The average federal tax bite on the top 400 was 30% in 1995 and 23% in 2002.
Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com
They don't pay lower taxes, you confuse the issue, income taxes are based on your income and deductions. The wealthy have already been taxed on their incomes, they are now taxed on their investments, dividends and capitol gains, being that they have already paid taxes on the original money invested ( income taxes), they pay on the profit at a much lower rate. Capitol gains, those held over a year are taxed at 15%. The wealthy, the top 10% pay 70% of all taxes in this country. 46% of americans pay NO income tax what-so-ever. I say tax them, they enjoy the same benefits the rest of us get to pay for, roads, bridges, schools, police, fire etc. They need to have some skin in the game.
" Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, the gospel of envy, it's only virtue is the shared equality of misery." Winston Churchill
" The problem with socialism is that you eventuallly run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.
This has nothing to do with creating jobs, in fact, it will cause further unemployment and a further decrease in revenue to the government. The wealthy are responsible for 32 % of consumer spending, you take that away from them, you take it away from the private sector, which is the bill payer's for the nation and the job engine for our economy.
What is more important, that American children get an education, that our people get healthcare, that roads and bridges get fixed, that advanced materials research be done, that our military be supplied with the best equipment, that old people be taken care of, that our debt be paid down, that food and water be safe, that our environment be clean, OR THAT A BILLIONAIRE GETS A NEW YACHT???
What is more important, that American children get an education, that our people get healthcare, that roads and bridges get fixed, that advanced materials research be done, that our military be supplied with the best equipment, that old people be taken care of, that our debt be paid down, that food and water be safe, that our environment be clean, OR THAT A BILLIONAIRE GETS A NEW YACHT???
What is more important, that American children get an education, that our people get healthcare, that roads and bridges get fixed, that advanced materials research be done, that our military be supplied with the best equipment, that old people be taken care of, that our debt be paid down, that food and water be safe, that our environment be clean, OR THAT A BILLIONAIRE GETS A NEW YACHT???
The billionaire buying a new yacht helps pay for all of that, and it puts money into the pockets of the yacht builder, the electronics manufacturers, the crew of the yacht, and numerous others along the way.
Why do you hate the working people of America?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Ahhh. Okay. Sorry. Didn't realize you were a stupid whackjob. Here, since it's so simple, why don't you pick this apart. This is the kind of deal we structure all the time. Since you're so uh "sophisticated" in this regard, it should be easy for you and the aptly named Oddball!
People with higher incomes have almost always paid less in taxes. Their rate doesn't matter because they have so many more tools at their disposal for avoidance (as opposed to evasion).
For example, we just structured the comp for a partner at a law firm. He'll get a million a year but it's broken down in a few different ways. $200K will come as shares in the firm - which have a guaranteed buyout plus interest for every year he stays. No taxes on that money until he takes it, when it will be offset with other vehicles.
Some will go to the firm's investment fund. Think about the value of that. These guys know who is going to Merge / Acquire etc... before it ever happens. Not that they would ever use that info to their advantage Then there is the retirement account, life insurance etc... which is not taxed until received and then again, it is offset in other ways or put into a trust and not taxed at all.
So he'll end up with an actual income of about $500K. But wait there's more! As a partner, he gets a company car - a Mercedes 500CLS. His Learjet (which isn't as great as a Gulfstream but it's still COOL!) is deductible. So are his phones, computers, membership in the country club and so on.
So even though he uses these things for personal purposes (as well as business of course), he'll get at least another $100K off the top.
Then of course, his wife owns an interior decorating business. She has to buy all kinds of expensive furniture for their home because she uses it as a showcase. Her business loses about $100K for two years and then shows a profit of $20K for one year. That means once every three years they pay an extra $10K in taxes - but 2 out of 3 years, they save $50K in taxes PLUS they get to write of the cost of a lot of their funrinture! (We're talking $30K for a dining room set folks).
So he'll end up paying income taxes on about $350 - $400K. Probably around 20% or so of his income. Now this isn't a bad guy. He's not doing anything wrong. That's just how our tax code is written. The moment I started my own business (a legal recruiting firm), I got a couple dozen deductions you don't get. The more I make, the more I can avoid paying taxes on. It's just how it works.
Now. Can a manager at a retail store making $50K a year afford to defer or divert half their income? Nope. Would they get the same tax breaks if they did? A few but not most of them because they're not a business owner like those 400 people to whom you refer.
Can a small business owner who makes $50K a year do what these folks do? Legally they can but in application, it's probably not practical. They'd starve.
So yes, the tax codes favor the rich. Oh well. As things are picking up for us (the legal biz is benefitting right now), I'm ambivalent. But would I lose sleep over two points on the NET? Not really.
I do find it interesting that the very people who have claimed all our problems would be solved if only we lowered taxes on "job creators", are now complaining about Obama's jobs bill - which is substantially tax cuts.
So Bush's temporary tax cuts were great but Obama's are terrible. Check.
Now you notice how my post is not just whackjob bumper-sticker bullsh1t sold by RW media OR LW media? Just observation of fact which of course, because it doesn't agree with that nice little kindergarten phrase from your memorized soundbites, stirs the implanted reaction.
So since I don't just parrot your cute little mantras, instead of intelligently discussing issues, you cute little whackjobs get your panties in a bunch and start with the petty insults about how "other people" are sheep, unintelligent etc...
So how much deferred income are your taking this year? Do you work with DC or DB? Are you avoiding those pesky 10b's? Doin a lot of work on those 1120's? Do you have a nice GP guaranteed as long as you adhere to your NCA? Or is it more of a GH?
Surely Mensa members like yourselves deal with those hassles every day!
I happen to own my own business that nets over a million a year.
I take a portion of my income as stock dividends. I defer taxes via a safe harbor plan. I invest after tax money to the tune of 50K a year I have a couple deferred comp plans via life insurance and i have several other side ventures as a silent partner.
Don't think you can dazzle me little sheep.
And I don't remember saying anything about tax cuts.
What I do remember is saying that the tax rates (which is what this thread is about by the way) paid on earned income and capital gains are the same for everyone. It's you who seem to have problem with that simple fact and seem to feel the need to prove oh how smart you are.
I've found that the people who have to tell everyone how smart they are usually aren't. So run along little sheep. I'm sure there's a politician on TV right now spouting some rah rah sis-boom-bah that will get you all fired up for the night.
So you claim to have all that going and you found what flawed in my post? What specifically did you find that caused you to put on your asshole hat and start slinging bullshit?
NM. You're probably lying anyway.
WASHINGTON, D.C.--The 400 highest-earning taxpayers in the U.S. reported a record $105 billion in total adjusted gross income in 2006, but they paid just $18 billion in tax, new Internal Revenue Service figures show. That works out to an average federal income tax bite of 17%--the lowest rate paid by the richest 400 during the 15-year period covered by the IRS statistics. The average federal tax bite on the top 400 was 30% in 1995 and 23% in 2002.
Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com
WASHINGTON, D.C.--The 400 highest-earning taxpayers in the U.S. reported a record $105 billion in total adjusted gross income in 2006, but they paid just $18 billion in tax, new Internal Revenue Service figures show. That works out to an average federal income tax bite of 17%--the lowest rate paid by the richest 400 during the 15-year period covered by the IRS statistics. The average federal tax bite on the top 400 was 30% in 1995 and 23% in 2002.
Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com
Again you are comparing apples to oranges, these are capitol gains taxes not ordinary income taxes. They have already paid income taxes on the original investment, then they risked their profit by investing it in the market in the hopes of getting a return on their investment, if they make a profit, they will pay a 15% tax on the capitol gains. Now if you and your liberals decide to RAISE the capitol gains taxes, you will see money leave the U.S in droves, our business's will suffer as they will have no backing from investors. There is a risk to investing your money and an increase in the capitol gains rate discourages investment in American companies. I would zero any capitol gains tax.
They don't pay lower taxes, you confuse the issue, income taxes are based on your income and deductions. The wealthy have already been taxed on their incomes, they are now taxed on their investments, dividends and capitol gains, being that they have already paid taxes on the original money invested ( income taxes), they pay on the profit at a much lower rate. Capitol gains, those held over a year are taxed at 15%. The wealthy, the top 10% pay 70% of all taxes in this country. 46% of americans pay NO income tax what-so-ever. I say tax them, they enjoy the same benefits the rest of us get to pay for, roads, bridges, schools, police, fire etc. They need to have some skin in the game.
" Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, the gospel of envy, it's only virtue is the shared equality of misery." Winston Churchill
" The problem with socialism is that you eventuallly run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.
This has nothing to do with creating jobs, in fact, it will cause further unemployment and a further decrease in revenue to the government. The wealthy are responsible for 32 % of consumer spending, you take that away from them, you take it away from the private sector, which is the bill payer's for the nation and the job engine for our economy.
No, you are the economic moron.
When a government is underfunded and wealth is held in fewer and fewer hands, an economy stagnates.
Who has the fastest growing economy in Europe? Sweden.
Why? BECAUSE THEY INVEST IN THEIR PEOPLE.
Investments in education, healthcare, technology, research, and infrastructure is what drives an economy. Not tax cuts for the rich.
What is more important, that American children get an education, that our people get healthcare, that roads and bridges get fixed, that advanced materials research be done, that our military be supplied with the best equipment, that old people be taken care of, that our debt be paid down, that food and water be safe, that our environment be clean, OR THAT A BILLIONAIRE GETS A NEW YACHT???
The billionaire buying a new yacht helps pay for all of that, and it puts money into the pockets of the yacht builder, the electronics manufacturers, the crew of the yacht, and numerous others along the way.
Why do you hate the working people of America?
Glad I understand you now.
Billionaires are more important than American children get an education, that our people get healthcare, that roads and bridges get fixed, that advanced materials research be done, that our military be supplied with the best equipment, that old people be taken care of, that our debt be paid down, or our evironment being clean.
This is why Republican policies always fail.
They don't have their priorities straight.
WASHINGTON, D.C.--The 400 highest-earning taxpayers in the U.S. reported a record $105 billion in total adjusted gross income in 2006, but they paid just $18 billion in tax, new Internal Revenue Service figures show. That works out to an average federal income tax bite of 17%--the lowest rate paid by the richest 400 during the 15-year period covered by the IRS statistics. The average federal tax bite on the top 400 was 30% in 1995 and 23% in 2002.
Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com
Again you are comparing apples to oranges, these are capitol gains taxes not ordinary income taxes. They have already paid income taxes on the original investment, then they risked their profit by investing it in the market in the hopes of getting a return on their investment, if they make a profit, they will pay a 15% tax on the capitol gains. Now if you and your liberals decide to RAISE the capitol gains taxes, you will see money leave the U.S in droves, our business's will suffer as they will have no backing from investors. There is a risk to investing your money and an increase in the capitol gains rate discourages investment in American companies. I would zero any capitol gains tax.
You didn't answer the question.
Why should the rich pay taxes at a lower rate than the rest of us?
