Why Pro-Abortion Is Anti-Science

[Newby]

There's a lot going on in this question, so I'll single it out.

If I thought that a fetus before it is a viable being outside the wound was even remotely equivalent to a 'child', then yes, I would find something morally wrong with it.

As most abortions are done long before a fetus is a viable being outside of a woman's womb, I find nothing morally wrong with them.

Yes.

The male body is also designed to create life.

YouTube - Every Sperm is Sacred {Monty Python's Meaning of Life}

Thank you for your straight up answer. I just completely disagree with you and that is what the op is all about. ....

The OP is all over the place, to be honest. For instance, I am not in favor of any government funds for abortions. None at all.

But, we seem to have focused on the 'what is life' issue brought up in the OP as well. So, I'll stick with that.

Sure I am. My hangnail is human - has human DNA, the cells can replicate, etc. - and I want that destroyed. My friends appendix was human, too. It had DNA, it's cells could replicate, so it needed to be destoyed as well.

Invoking that wonderfully warm and fuzzy term, 'life', when discussing this topic is all well and fine, but one needs to be a lot more specific when using it in this topic. The word human is also an adjective. I have a human hangnail. I have ahuman spleen. If one wishes to use it as a vowel, as I suspect you do, a human being is more specific and leads to less confusion.

.... And how do you define 'viable'? Isn't that the big question? ....

Yes, it is the big question as it applies to a human being, because a lot of human tissue is not at all viable when separated from the mother being.

.... A newborn is not 'viable' on its own, .....

It looks like you've gone ahead and defined viable on your own. Perhaps this is where we should focus for the moment as I say a newborn is indeed viable.

I really respect you Si, but I see that whole post as a cop out. You're evading the question by talking about hang nails and appendixes, which have nothing to do with the conversation, and I'm sure you already know that. Why can't anyone who has this position talk honestly about it, that's what I don't get? We're talking about human life, a baby, a separate living human being, not a hang nail or an organ.

I asked you to tell me what you defined as 'viable' and who ultimately gets to have their definition imposed on society? I understand if you don't want to answer, it's just frustrating whenever someone on the opposite side won't have an honest discussion about it. I relate to you in a lot of other ways, and I'm genuinely trying to understand why you have the outlook that you do, but perhaps that's just not 'viable' either.

 

[Newby]

So, how are you willing to pay for your choice to prevent the abortion of unwanted children?

I'm not sure I understand your question? Should we allow people who harm or kill others in society go free because we have no other recourse or don't want to spend the money?

No, I mean how many unaborted children are you willing to adopt?

How do you know that I haven't already? And that's also a cop out as well, why do you have trouble with people who get pregnant being responsible for the life they bring into the world?

Yet another cop out is that it's better that they be dead than abused or not cared for too, sorry but I don't buy into that game either.

 

[Si modo]

I'm not sure I understand your question? Should we allow people who harm or kill others in society go free because we have no other recourse or don't want to spend the money?

No, I mean how many unaborted children are you willing to adopt?

How do you know that I haven't already? And that's also a cop out as well, why do you have trouble with people who get pregnant being responsible for the life they bring into the world?

Yet another cop out is that it's better that they be dead than abused or not cared for too, sorry but I don't buy into that game either.

OK. I guess you'l lkeep on using non-specific yet emotionally-charged words when discussing this.



This is one of the fundamental problems of so many debates. Folks end up arguing with their emotions rather than their cognitive thoughts.

This is not an insult at all. Emotions as well as cognition are both processes of the brain. But, we all would be well-served in separating the two when attempting to problem-solve.

 

[Si modo]

Thank you for your straight up answer. I just completely disagree with you and that is what the op is all about. ....

The OP is all over the place, to be honest. For instance, I am not in favor of any government funds for abortions. None at all.

But, we seem to have focused on the 'what is life' issue brought up in the OP as well. So, I'll stick with that.

Sure I am. My hangnail is human - has human DNA, the cells can replicate, etc. - and I want that destroyed. My friends appendix was human, too. It had DNA, it's cells could replicate, so it needed to be destoyed as well.

Invoking that wonderfully warm and fuzzy term, 'life', when discussing this topic is all well and fine, but one needs to be a lot more specific when using it in this topic. The word human is also an adjective. I have a human hangnail. I have ahuman spleen. If one wishes to use it as a vowel, as I suspect you do, a human being is more specific and leads to less confusion.

Yes, it is the big question as it applies to a human being, because a lot of human tissue is not at all viable when separated from the mother being.

.... A newborn is not 'viable' on its own, .....

It looks like you've gone ahead and defined viable on your own. Perhaps this is where we should focus for the moment as I say a newborn is indeed viable.

I really respect you Si, but I see that whole post as a cop out. ....

Okie doke, then.

Discussion over.

 

[Newby]

The OP is all over the place, to be honest. For instance, I am not in favor of any government funds for abortions. None at all.

But, we seem to have focused on the 'what is life' issue brought up in the OP as well. So, I'll stick with that.

Sure I am. My hangnail is human - has human DNA, the cells can replicate, etc. - and I want that destroyed. My friends appendix was human, too. It had DNA, it's cells could replicate, so it needed to be destoyed as well.

Invoking that wonderfully warm and fuzzy term, 'life', when discussing this topic is all well and fine, but one needs to be a lot more specific when using it in this topic. The word human is also an adjective. I have a human hangnail. I have ahuman spleen. If one wishes to use it as a vowel, as I suspect you do, a human being is more specific and leads to less confusion.

Yes, it is the big question as it applies to a human being, because a lot of human tissue is not at all viable when separated from the mother being.

It looks like you've gone ahead and defined viable on your own. Perhaps this is where we should focus for the moment as I say a newborn is indeed viable.

I really respect you Si, but I see that whole post as a cop out. ....

Okie doke, then.

Discussion over.

Fine with me, it would go no where anyway. It's a shame that no one on the pro 'choice' side that I've ever come across can answer simple honest questions.

 

[Samson]

I'm not sure I understand your question? Should we allow people who harm or kill others in society go free because we have no other recourse or don't want to spend the money?

No, I mean how many unaborted children are you willing to adopt?

How do you know that I haven't already? And that's also a cop out as well, why do you have trouble with people who get pregnant being responsible for the life they bring into the world?

Yet another cop out is that it's better that they be dead than abused or not cared for too, sorry but I don't buy into that game either.

So, you're not willing to take any responsibility for forcing irresponsible people to have unwanted children, but you're quite willing to lecture them about their own irresponsibility?



Sorry, but my moral standards don't allow me to do that.

 

[Newby]

No, I mean how many unaborted children are you willing to adopt?

How do you know that I haven't already? And that's also a cop out as well, why do you have trouble with people who get pregnant being responsible for the life they bring into the world?

Yet another cop out is that it's better that they be dead than abused or not cared for too, sorry but I don't buy into that game either.

OK. I guess you'l lkeep on using non-specific yet emotionally-charged words when discussing this.



This is one of the fundamental problems of so many debates. Folks end up arguing with their emotions rather than their cognitive thoughts.

This is not an insult at all. Emotions as well as cognition are both processes of the brain. But, we all would be well-served in separating the two when attempting to problem-solve.

Yet I'm not 'emotional', I'm just asking simple questions and not getting any real answers for them.

 

[Newby]

No, I mean how many unaborted children are you willing to adopt?

How do you know that I haven't already? And that's also a cop out as well, why do you have trouble with people who get pregnant being responsible for the life they bring into the world?

Yet another cop out is that it's better that they be dead than abused or not cared for too, sorry but I don't buy into that game either.

So, you're not willing to take any responsibility for forcing irresponsible people to have unwanted children, but you're quite willing to lecture them about their own irresponsibility?



Sorry, but my moral standards don't allow me to do that.

Okay, you win, Samson, anyone that argues against abortion should at least be willing to adopt 3 unwanted children. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and something to base your entire argument for it on. Whatever makes you happy.

So, your 'moral standards' count for something and mine don't? That explains a lot.

 

[Ravi]

If you don't want an abortion, don't have one.

It is really that simple.

 

[Samson]

How do you know that I haven't already? And that's also a cop out as well, why do you have trouble with people who get pregnant being responsible for the life they bring into the world?

Yet another cop out is that it's better that they be dead than abused or not cared for too, sorry but I don't buy into that game either.

So, you're not willing to take any responsibility for forcing irresponsible people to have unwanted children, but you're quite willing to lecture them about their own irresponsibility?



Sorry, but my moral standards don't allow me to do that.

Okay, you win, Samson, anyone that argues against abortion should at least be willing to adopt 3 unwanted children. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and something to base your entire argument for it on. Whatever makes you happy.

So, your 'moral standards' count for something and mine don't? That explains a lot.

Moral standards don't count for much unless you're willing to act upon them.

I have.

Until you have, then you're moral standards are nothing more than empty words.

 

[Newby]

So, you're not willing to take any responsibility for forcing irresponsible people to have unwanted children, but you're quite willing to lecture them about their own irresponsibility?



Sorry, but my moral standards don't allow me to do that.

Okay, you win, Samson, anyone that argues against abortion should at least be willing to adopt 3 unwanted children. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and something to base your entire argument for it on. Whatever makes you happy.

So, your 'moral standards' count for something and mine don't? That explains a lot.

Moral standards don't count for much unless you're willing to act upon them.

I have.

Until you have, then you're moral standards are nothing more than empty words.

Talk about holier than thou.... wow, you win the prize.

And since you don't know a damn thing about whether or not I live up to my moral standards, you look foolish trying to imply that you do. Maybe you should try to not make this a personal issue about me?

 

[Si modo]

How do you know that I haven't already? And that's also a cop out as well, why do you have trouble with people who get pregnant being responsible for the life they bring into the world?

Yet another cop out is that it's better that they be dead than abused or not cared for too, sorry but I don't buy into that game either.

OK. I guess you'l lkeep on using non-specific yet emotionally-charged words when discussing this.



This is one of the fundamental problems of so many debates. Folks end up arguing with their emotions rather than their cognitive thoughts.

This is not an insult at all. Emotions as well as cognition are both processes of the brain. But, we all would be well-served in separating the two when attempting to problem-solve.

Yet I'm not 'emotional', I'm just asking simple questions and not getting any real answers for them.

Bullshit.

As my post asks you to clarify those 'simple' questions, you are not only not willing to clarify them, you call my asking for such clarification a 'cop out'.

That is why I find that you are not capable of having a rational (meaning free of emotions) discussion about this issue. And, I have no interest in being told my furthering a rational discussion by asking questions for clarification and having that insulted by you.

 

[Newby]

OK. I guess you'l lkeep on using non-specific yet emotionally-charged words when discussing this.



This is one of the fundamental problems of so many debates. Folks end up arguing with their emotions rather than their cognitive thoughts.

This is not an insult at all. Emotions as well as cognition are both processes of the brain. But, we all would be well-served in separating the two when attempting to problem-solve.

Yet I'm not 'emotional', I'm just asking simple questions and not getting any real answers for them.

Bullshit.

As my post asks you to clarify those 'simple' questions, you are not only not willing to clarify them, you call myasking for such clarification a 'cop out'.

That is why I find that you are not capable of having a rational (meaning free of emotions) discussion about this issue.

A 'clarification' is comparing a living human being to a hangnail or an appendix? We can't even agree on that premise, so there's no hope for anything else really.

I've heard all of these arguments before, so there's really nothing new here.

 

[Si modo]

Okay, you win, Samson, anyone that argues against abortion should at least be willing to adopt 3 unwanted children. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and something to base your entire argument for it on. Whatever makes you happy.

So, your 'moral standards' count for something and mine don't? That explains a lot.

Moral standards don't count for much unless you're willing to act upon them.

I have.

Until you have, then you're moral standards are nothing more than empty words.

Talk about holier than thou.... wow, you win the prize.

And since you don't know a damn thing about whether or not I live up to my moral standards, you look foolish trying to imply that you do. Maybe you should try to not make this a personal issue about me?

Perhaps if you were capable of seeing that is exactly what you did to him, that would be helpful.

 

[Newby]

Moral standards don't count for much unless you're willing to act upon them.

I have.

Until you have, then you're moral standards are nothing more than empty words.

Talk about holier than thou.... wow, you win the prize.

And since you don't know a damn thing about whether or not I live up to my moral standards, you look foolish trying to imply that you do. Maybe you should try to not make this a personal issue about me?

Perhaps if you were capable of seeing that is exactly what you did to him, that would be helpful.

And how did I do that to him exactly? Seriously?

 

[Si modo]

Yet I'm not 'emotional', I'm just asking simple questions and not getting any real answers for them.

Bullshit.

As my post asks you to clarify those 'simple' questions, you are not only not willing to clarify them, you call myasking for such clarification a 'cop out'.

That is why I find that you are not capable of having a rational (meaning free of emotions) discussion about this issue.

A 'clarification' is comparing a living human being to a hangnail or an appendix? We can't even agree on that premise, so there's no hope for anything else really.

I've heard all of these arguments before, so there's really nothing new here.

Man, you have serious comprehension issues. You need to read what I posted not what your imagination tells you.

You are all over the place in this thread.

As to your comment about hearing these arguments before, I imagine you may have. But, by the content of your posts, I know that you have not listened to the arguments.






Funny how this has gotten personal. I wonder how that happened? (Not really)

 

[Newby]

Bullshit.

As my post asks you to clarify those 'simple' questions, you are not only not willing to clarify them, you call myasking for such clarification a 'cop out'.

That is why I find that you are not capable of having a rational (meaning free of emotions) discussion about this issue.

A 'clarification' is comparing a living human being to a hangnail or an appendix? We can't even agree on that premise, so there's no hope for anything else really.

I've heard all of these arguments before, so there's really nothing new here.

Man, you have serious comprehension issues. You need to read what I posted not what your imagination tells you.

You are all over the place in this thread.

As to your comment about hearing these arguments before, I imagine you may have. But, by the content of your posts, I know that you have not listened to the arguments.

Okay, if all you have is insults, then I'm out. Very disappointing.

 

[Si modo]

I feel like I unknowingly walked into an emotional wind devil. It's spinning too much in here for me.

 

[Foxfyre]

Funny, I've still never met a single person that is "Pro" abortion.

Nobody is going to say that he or she is PRO abortion. But all you have to do is read between the lines of rhetoric from people who support it and promote funding for it, etc. etc. to find that sentiment. All you have to do is read the contempt for a mother who knowingly brings a less-than-perfect baby into the world, or who refuses to abort on doctor's recommendation, or who refuses to abort one or more of a multiple birth to 'give the others a better chance' etc. All you have to do is spend a little bit of time with organizations like Planned Parenthood or NOW to know that pro abortion beliefs and sentiments are out there.

Even our own President would not want his daughter PUNSIHED with a baby if she got pregnant unintentionally. If that isn't a pro-abortion sentiment, I don't know what is.

 

[manifold]

Funny, I've still never met a single person that is "Pro" abortion.

Sure you have. They either lie to you, or you lie to yourself about it. Not being a mind reader I have no idea which is true, but one of them is.

Bullshit fail

I'm decidedly Anti-abortion AND Pro-Choice.

And I'm not lying to anyone, let alone myself.