Why I Support a Public Option.

[AVG-JOE]

I spent 16 YEARS in Government handling accounts, I know exactly how it works.

HERE'S a guy that spent almost 20 years inside the health insurance industry and tells us exactly how it works AGAINST American citizens...

<snip>

...ost of the shareholders are large, institutional investors and hedge funds. Hedge fund managers are the ones who look at the stock. And investors for large organizations. It's not mom and pop investor.

Bill Moyers Journal . Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients | PBS

I happened to catch that episode one evening while flipping through the box......

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Bfgrn again.

Bummer!

 

[&#9773;proletarian&#9773;]

There are many reasons why I do not want Owe Bama's Health Care Reform Bill to pass - especially with a public option involved:

(1) The government has proved to us all that they can't manage Social Security.
(2) The governmant has proved to us all that they can't manage Medicare.
(3) The government has proved to us all that they can't manage the Postal System.
(4) The government has just recently proved to us all that they can't manage something as simple as a Cash for Clunkers program.

There are four pretty good reasons right in front of your nose why you should fear Government controlled Health Care Reform. If they are not good enough reasons to prove to you the government has no business in the Health Care Business I can only offer you just one more reason why I don't think the government should get involved:

THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT SUPPORT THE US GOVERNMENT SELLING INSURANCE TO ANYBODY.

(1) The government has proved to us all that they can't manage Social Security.

1.2%..... 'Nuff said.​

Could you source that, please?
​

 

[AVG-JOE]

The problem I have is this: the federal government has fucked up just about everything they've ever touched. The Fed is renowned for incomprehensible waste. How can we trust anything as important as health care in their hands?

And yet Social Security, with no changes, is solvent through 2035 and running at 1.2% efficiency with more individuals to collect from, monitor the records for and pay out to than any bureaucracy in the history of this silly little planet.

Imagine what we might save in health care costs if we quit using our health care dollars to buy corporate jets and veal for the bureaucrats that manage the health insurance bureaucracy.

I figure that if We, The People ran an ad looking for bureaucrats to run a health care bureaucracy, we would probably get adequately qualified candidates for most of the required tasks for between $30,000 and $250,000.

If you saw gasoline, guaranteed quality, for a dollar per gallon cheaper on the other side of the road, would you make a left instead of a right to save the difference?

(Pun not originally intended, but I liked it )​

How can we trust private, for extreme profit corporations - which can't be sent to jail for fucking us - with our most sensitive financial and personal health data?

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I do NOT want Government run health care for all. It won't work.

Are liberals missing a gene? What part of I don't want to pay for everyone else don't you get? What part of take PERSONAL responsibility for your self and your family don't you get?

The health care crap in Congress right now does not improve anything. If you want Health care to be sold across State lines? It is not in there. If you want preexisting conditions covered make single bill for that. If you want all non work people covered by one group rate make a single bill for that.

NONE of that requires Government to be involved at all. Just make a law.

Get tort reform in there. Get the shyster Lawyers out of our medical costs.

There is not a SINGLE program the Government runs that is cost effective and runs smoothly. They are all full of waste and abuse. It is the NATURE of the beast.

No Government entity EVER has an incentive to save a dime.In fact by their very nature they MUST spend every penny given them even if it is wasted doing it. Failing to do so means next year their budget goes DOWN.

Every Government agency has every incentive to create more work for itself so that it can get more money. No Government agency ever works to eliminate its self or save the tax payers a penny. By their very nature they must grow.

Bolded part is bullshit. 20% of expenditures by private insurance companies are administrative costs. Medicare spends........wait for it............2%. That's right kids, medicare is a helluva lot more efficient than private insurance.

Don't believe me? Then buy this article.

Medicare Versus Private Insurance: Rhetoric And Reality -- Davis et al., 10.1377/hlthaff.w2.311 -- Health Affairs

 

[CrimsonWhite]

We already have a public option. It is called medicare. We should simply drop the age requirement to use it.

 

[AVG-JOE]

There are many reasons why I do not want Owe Bama's Health Care Reform Bill to pass - especially with a public option involved:

(1) The government has proved to us all that they can't manage Social Security.
(2) The governmant has proved to us all that they can't manage Medicare.
(3) The government has proved to us all that they can't manage the Postal System.
(4) The government has just recently proved to us all that they can't manage something as simple as a Cash for Clunkers program.

There are four pretty good reasons right in front of your nose why you should fear Government controlled Health Care Reform. If they are not good enough reasons to prove to you the government has no business in the Health Care Business I can only offer you just one more reason why I don't think the government should get involved:

THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT SUPPORT THE US GOVERNMENT SELLING INSURANCE TO ANYBODY.

(1) The government has proved to us all that they can't manage Social Security.

1.2%..... 'Nuff said.​

Could you source that, please?
​

I read it on the web site: Social Security Online - The Official Website of the U.S. Social Security Administration last summer; I'll link it as soon as I find the page again.

 

[Christopher]

If you remove the million dollar executives and their needs from the equation, costs to the consumer come down. Take banking for instance - I just received notice from my Not-For-Profit Credit Union that I had insufficient funds in checking to cover my last mortgage check. They transferred the cash out of savings and charged me $5.00.

Why don't we have a national credit union and a public option in insurance?

Good (insert your preferred Deity here) people!! We must look so stupid from space.

I think this will do little to stop increases in costs. Profits are around 3-4% for health insurance companies.

Why wouldn't you be open to non-profit private insurance? Why does it have to be a public option?

 

[&#9773;proletarian&#9773;]

I do NOT want Government run health care for all. It won't work.

Are liberals missing a gene? What part of I don't want to pay for everyone else don't you get? What part of take PERSONAL responsibility for your self and your family don't you get?

The health care crap in Congress right now does not improve anything. If you want Health care to be sold across State lines? It is not in there. If you want preexisting conditions covered make single bill for that. If you want all non work people covered by one group rate make a single bill for that.

NONE of that requires Government to be involved at all. Just make a law.

Get tort reform in there. Get the shyster Lawyers out of our medical costs.

There is not a SINGLE program the Government runs that is cost effective and runs smoothly. They are all full of waste and abuse. It is the NATURE of the beast.

No Government entity EVER has an incentive to save a dime.In fact by their very nature they MUST spend every penny given them even if it is wasted doing it. Failing to do so means next year their budget goes DOWN.

Every Government agency has every incentive to create more work for itself so that it can get more money. No Government agency ever works to eliminate its self or save the tax payers a penny. By their very nature they must grow.

Bolded part is bullshit. 20% of expenditures by private insurance companies are administrative costs. Medicare spends........wait for it............2%. That's right kids, medicare is a helluva lot more efficient than private insurance.

Don't believe me? Then buy this article.

Medicare Versus Private Insurance: Rhetoric And Reality -- Davis et al., 10.1377/hlthaff.w2.311 -- Health Affairs

What paragraph was that figure in? I didn't see it.

 

[Damo]

Governments can't run health care? The USA is the ONLY western industrialized country that does not have universal public health care for all its citizens. Healthcare costs in the USA are the most expensive among these countries and costs, at least, twice as much per capita and consumes the greatest percentage of GDP as any of these countries. The private health care industry is run for profit and Americans are paying way more for a system that ignores the needs of many of its citizens. Governments can and do run health care systems very efficiently and effectively in Europe, Japan, Canada and Australia. As one objective measure of the effectiveness of these health care systems, the average life expectancy of the citizens of these countries is higher than that of Americans. Wake up Americans, you're being duped by the private health care industry! Private = profits over patients.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So you are saying you have more experience?

Specific experience in regards accounts and how Government handles OUR money. Now if you are going to chime in with how you run Government accounts do us all a favor and do not lie to us about how you save money. The sad fact is that if an account does not spend every dime it gets that year then next year some other account will get the excess since your account obviously does not need it. No increase for inflation or new contracts or anything else.

Every year account managers get the same speech about ensuring every penny is spent before the end of the fiscal year.

RGS, your Avatar and Handle convey a pride in service to The People while in the employ of the Armed Services, yet you belittle and rail against your colleagues in Federal employ a LOT...

I find that curious.

I am not railing against anything, I simply telling you HOW the Government works.

 

[JW Frogen]

Do you feel that you know more than me because you are older and more experienced?

Once I would have answered yes to that question without any hesitation but my experience (drinking) has really fucked with my brain, so I can say I am older and more Zen-ishly older than you are.

 

[Annie]

The health care crap in Congress right now does not improve anything. If you want Health care to be sold across State lines? It is not in there.

Ezra Klein - The six Republican ideas already in the health-care reform bill

the Senate health-care bill included a compromise with the conservative vision for insurance regulation. The relevant policy is in Section 1333, which allows the formation of interstate compacts. Under this provision, Wyoming, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, and Idaho (for instance) could agree to allow insurers based in any of those states to sell plans in all of them. This prevents a race to the bottom, as Idaho has to be comfortable with Arizona's regulations, and the policies have to have a minimum level of benefits (something that even Rep. Paul Ryan believes), but it's a lot closer to the conservative ideal.

So rather than have the option of either public or private insurance, you'd rather pass legislation telling businesses what services they must offer?

Get tort reform in there. Get the shyster Lawyers out of our medical costs.

Tort Reform Unlikely to Cut Health Care Costs The Washington Independent

Eighty percent of malpractice claims involve significant disability or death, a 2006 analysis of medical malpractice claims conducted by the Harvard School of Public Health shows, and the amount of compensation patients receive strongly depends on the merits of their claims. Most people injured by medical malpractice do not bring legal claims, earlier studies by the same researchers have found.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/opinion/12baker.html?_r=1

CBO disagrees on tort reform, in the main and has for quite some time:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/55xx/doc5549/Report.pdf

quick view:

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Longer:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/55xx/doc5549/Report.pdf

 

[&#9773;proletarian&#9773;]

I'll have to read it later

 

[Sarah G]

I do NOT want Government run health care for all. It won't work.

Are liberals missing a gene? What part of I don't want to pay for everyone else don't you get? What part of take PERSONAL responsibility for your self and your family don't you get?

The health care crap in Congress right now does not improve anything. If you want Health care to be sold across State lines? It is not in there. If you want preexisting conditions covered make single bill for that. If you want all non work people covered by one group rate make a single bill for that.

NONE of that requires Government to be involved at all. Just make a law.

Get tort reform in there. Get the shyster Lawyers out of our medical costs.

There is not a SINGLE program the Government runs that is cost effective and runs smoothly. They are all full of waste and abuse. It is the NATURE of the beast.

No Government entity EVER has an incentive to save a dime.In fact by their very nature they MUST spend every penny given them even if it is wasted doing it. Failing to do so means next year their budget goes DOWN.

Every Government agency has every incentive to create more work for itself so that it can get more money. No Government agency ever works to eliminate its self or save the tax payers a penny. By their very nature they must grow.

What part of the word 'OPTION' is unclear to you Sarge?

A public option is NOT free health care, it would create a non profit insurance provider where citizens could purcha$e coverage.

Private insurance corporations are NOT in the health care business, they are in the PROFIT business. Their incentive to increase PROFIT is collect premiums from policy holders, then FIRE the policy holder when they submit a claim.

It is beyond insanity

He finds it difficult to separate Republican talking points from reality. Poor guy.

 

[AVG-JOE]

If you remove the million dollar executives and their needs from the equation, costs to the consumer come down. Take banking for instance - I just received notice from my Not-For-Profit Credit Union that I had insufficient funds in checking to cover my last mortgage check. They transferred the cash out of savings and charged me $5.00.

Why don't we have a national credit union and a public option in insurance?

Good (insert your preferred Deity here) people!! We must look so stupid from space.

I think this will do little to stop increases in costs. Profits are around 3-4% for health insurance companies.

Why wouldn't you be open to non-profit private insurance? Why does it have to be a public option?

Unless a not for profit corporation serves an exclusive segment of the public, it is by definition, a public option.

A not-for-profit insurance option would thrill me, ass-u-me-ing the current insurance lobby allowed true and free access to the not-for-profit segment and it wasn't watered down by said lobby.

 

[FireGod]

If you remove the million dollar executives and their needs from the equation, costs to the consumer come down. Take banking for instance - I just received notice from my Not-For-Profit Credit Union that I had insufficient funds in checking to cover my last mortgage check. They transferred the cash out of savings and charged me $5.00.

Why don't we have a national credit union and a public option in insurance?

Good (insert your preferred Deity here) people!! We must look so stupid from space.

I think this will do little to stop increases in costs. Profits are around 3-4% for health insurance companies.

Why wouldn't you be open to non-profit private insurance? Why does it have to be a public option?

I am thinking that you may want to research that. There are links in thread already, I believe.

 

[Immanuel]

I do NOT want Government run health care for all. It won't work.

Are liberals missing a gene? What part of I don't want to pay for everyone else don't you get? What part of take PERSONAL responsibility for your self and your family don't you get?

The health care crap in Congress right now does not improve anything. If you want Health care to be sold across State lines? It is not in there. If you want preexisting conditions covered make single bill for that. If you want all non work people covered by one group rate make a single bill for that.

NONE of that requires Government to be involved at all. Just make a law.

Get tort reform in there. Get the shyster Lawyers out of our medical costs.

There is not a SINGLE program the Government runs that is cost effective and runs smoothly. They are all full of waste and abuse. It is the NATURE of the beast.

No Government entity EVER has an incentive to save a dime.In fact by their very nature they MUST spend every penny given them even if it is wasted doing it. Failing to do so means next year their budget goes DOWN.

Every Government agency has every incentive to create more work for itself so that it can get more money. No Government agency ever works to eliminate its self or save the tax payers a penny. By their very nature they must grow.

What part of the word 'OPTION' is unclear to you Sarge?

A public option is NOT free health care, it would create a non profit insurance provider where citizens could purcha$e coverage.

Private insurance corporations are NOT in the health care business, they are in the PROFIT business. Their incentive to increase PROFIT is collect premiums from policy holders, then FIRE the policy holder when they submit a claim.

It is beyond insanity

My problem with what you say is that it will not remain AN option, it will become THE ONLY OPTION in the long run.

The original bill proposed was a clear attempt to eliminate private competition. Within five years private health insurance would have become either extinct or sock puppets of the U.S. Government.

Rewrite the proposal and maybe the idea is not so bad especially if it provides insurance for the poor and needy. Given a choice, I would not want the government being my insurance provider. Unfortunately, the bills that were put forth with a public option were designed to take away other options.

Immie

 

[Christopher]

If you remove the million dollar executives and their needs from the equation, costs to the consumer come down. Take banking for instance - I just received notice from my Not-For-Profit Credit Union that I had insufficient funds in checking to cover my last mortgage check. They transferred the cash out of savings and charged me $5.00.

Why don't we have a national credit union and a public option in insurance?

Good (insert your preferred Deity here) people!! We must look so stupid from space.

I think this will do little to stop increases in costs. Profits are around 3-4% for health insurance companies.

Why wouldn't you be open to non-profit private insurance? Why does it have to be a public option?

I am thinking that you may want to research that. There are links in thread already, I believe.

Here is a link which shows it is between 3-4% (bold emphasis added): Why Health Insurers Make Lousy Villains - Rick Newman (usnews.com)

Overall, the profit margin for health insurance companies was a modest 3.4 percent over the past year, according to data provided by Morningstar. That ranks 87th out of 215 industries and slightly above the median of 2.2 percent. By this measure, the most profitable industry over the past year has been beverages, with a 25.9 percent profit margin.

 

[Bern80]

1.2%..... 'Nuff said.​

Pretty narrow defintion of better. The numbers prove it is unsustainable they way it is currently run.

Under funded. Needs young, healthy contributors. Alternative? Make private insurance keep the elderly and the disabled as well as the young and working.​

Why am I morally obligated to pay for anyone else's health care?

It got fat in the 70's, but it's self sufficient now.​

You do know that the postal service is subsidized due to the fact that it doesn't actually make money, right?

THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT PROHIBIT THE US GOVERNMENT SELLING INSURANCE TO ANYBODY.

Then you, on a very fundamental level, don't understand how the consitution was intended to be read. We have had this debate before. Article 10, Section 8 I believe outlines with great specificity what the federal government can do. You don't write a list that specific if you think it's okay for the fed to decide what it can do as it goes along. The intent was if it isn't in the list, the fed can't do it and those matters are left to the state.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Under funded. Needs young, healthy contributors. Alternative? Make private insurance keep the elderly and the disabled as well as the young and working.​

Why am I morally obligated to pay for anyone else's health care?

People who ask this question do not understand "insurance".


Insurance is a pool of funds designed to spread risk over a group of people and over time.

You pay money to an 'insurance' company today because you may get cancer in your life time and the odds are against your being able to cover the cost of the treatment you want by yourself.

It's not a question of you paying for the health care of some poor, undeserving bastard, it is a question of being lucky enough to not become a poor, undeserving bastard with health care bills he couldn't possibly have planned for without sharing the risk. In theory, the larger the group, the lower the risk and therefore the cost. Currently we have been divided into very small groups called 'employees'. We are such chumps.


Why do so many people think that 'public option' equates to 'tax-payer funded'?

I don't think any of us poor, undeserving bastards are unwilling to pay for the insurance we obtain via a public option.....​

Remember..... There are only two jobs in a for profit insurance bureaucracy that pay enough to attract basic intelligence: The guy who makes sure they only take money from people who won't get cancer and the guy who figures out how the company can legally dodge payments on claims.