Why don't the Chinese get climate chage

[Sodafin]

The Chinese look set to be the last people on earth to understand climate change...

People around the world were asked: How serious a threat is global warming to you and your family?

The % answering "Yes" are:

Small islands nations: 91%
Kenya: 87%
Saudi Arabia: 82%
India: 81%
Japan: 75%
US: 64%
EU:62%

China: 33%

BBC News - Where countries stand on Copenhagen

On the one hand it is good to see that most Third World nations also understand the issues, which is by no means a given in societies such as Kenya where not everyone has access to solid media services or the internet, but on the other hand it is disturbing that China lags so far behind.

 

[JW Frogen]

China is the very first continuous civilization on earth to wreck their environment and then have to adapt, this is a culture that eats anything that moves, including Tibetan monks.

To expect them to be sensitive is like asking Hannibal Lector to only eat only the fava beans and stay away from the liver and nice Chinante.

Not going to happen.

 

[Sodafin]

China is the very first continuous civilization on earth to wreck their environment and then have to adapt, this is a culture that eats anything that moves, including Tibetan monks.

Yes, I suppose that is true. I think it is also the nature of communist China - a society in which the people are expected to meekly reflect whatever the government tells them to believe, and who largely do.

With the Chinese government having been so slow to adapt to climate change, the Chinese people are now where the rest of the world was 20 years ago.

We can only hope that now China is starting to invest in renewables, the prevailing attitudes in society might also start to catch up a bit.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Those third world countries don't give a fyling fuck about climate change.

They want the billions of dollars that the disastrous treaties coming out of Copenhagen will give them.

Do you really think countries like Rwanda, Somalia and other so called developing nations are going to take that money and build windmills?

 

[Sodafin]

Those third world countries don't give a fyling fuck about climate change.

They want the billions of dollars that the disastrous treaties coming out of Copenhagen will give them.

Do you really think countries like Rwanda, Somalia and other so called developing nations are going to take that money and build windmills?

Actually they do care, in my experience.

I was in Kenya a couple of months ago, where the leading story is about how illegal settlements have screwed up the water table feeding Lake Nakuru National Park - an area hit very hard by climate change. I was both surprised and impressed to see the government involved in tree planting and reforestation as a means of countering desertification.

It's funny you mention Rwanda - probably the country in Africa with the best government, and one that will no doubt be a leader in renewable energy. They are already working to use more natural gas, which they source from Lake Kivu.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Those third world countries don't give a fyling fuck about climate change.

They want the billions of dollars that the disastrous treaties coming out of Copenhagen will give them.

Do you really think countries like Rwanda, Somalia and other so called developing nations are going to take that money and build windmills?

Actually they do care, in my experience.

I was in Kenya a couple of months ago, where the leading story is about how illegal settlements have screwed up the water table feeding Lake Nakuru National Park - an area hit very hard by climate change. I was both surprised and impressed to see the government involved in tree planting and reforestation as a means of countering desertification.

It's funny you mention Rwanda - probably the country in Africa with the best government, and one that will no doubt be a leader in renewable energy. They are already working to use more natural gas, which they source from Lake Kivu.

you're very naive.

this is about money and nothing else

 

[Bfgrn]

Those third world countries don't give a fyling fuck about climate change.

They want the billions of dollars that the disastrous treaties coming out of Copenhagen will give them.

Do you really think countries like Rwanda, Somalia and other so called developing nations are going to take that money and build windmills?

Actually they do care, in my experience.

I was in Kenya a couple of months ago, where the leading story is about how illegal settlements have screwed up the water table feeding Lake Nakuru National Park - an area hit very hard by climate change. I was both surprised and impressed to see the government involved in tree planting and reforestation as a means of countering desertification.

It's funny you mention Rwanda - probably the country in Africa with the best government, and one that will no doubt be a leader in renewable energy. They are already working to use more natural gas, which they source from Lake Kivu.

you're very naive.

this is about money and nothing else

Sodafin... Skull Pilot is a '36 percenter' ...

Oscar Wilde said: "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between"

He forgot to mention 36% remained barbarians

 

[Sunni Man]

It's funny you mention Rwanda - probably the country in Africa with the best government, and one that will no doubt be a leader in renewable energy. They are already working to use more natural gas, which they source from Lake Kivu.

They will be just fine untill some warlord/general grabs power and starts killing the opposition in mass.

 

[Zoom-boing]

On the one hand it is good to see that most Third World nations also understand the issues, which is by no means a given in societies such as Kenya where not everyone has access to solid media services or the internet, but on the other hand it is disturbing that China lags so far behind.

Or the Goricale.

 

[Mr Natural]

Those third world countries don't give a fyling fuck about climate change.

They want the billions of dollars that the disastrous treaties coming out of Copenhagen will give them.

Do you really think countries like Rwanda, Somalia and other so called developing nations are going to take that money and build windmills?

Actually they do care, in my experience.

I was in Kenya a couple of months ago, where the leading story is about how illegal settlements have screwed up the water table feeding Lake Nakuru National Park - an area hit very hard by climate change. I was both surprised and impressed to see the government involved in tree planting and reforestation as a means of countering desertification.

It's funny you mention Rwanda - probably the country in Africa with the best government, and one that will no doubt be a leader in renewable energy. They are already working to use more natural gas, which they source from Lake Kivu.

you're very naive.

this is about money and nothing else

Everything's about money and nothing else.

 

[Old Rocks]

The Chinese at present produce more wind turbines and solar panels than any other nation on earth. They are actively trying to reduce their population with the one child policy. They have actually shut down some coal mining areas with the resultant economic distress in those areas.

Offsetting that is the continued building of dirty coal fired plants. The extreme pollution allowed by industry. And a general willingness to accept the pollution as part of becoming an industrialized nation.

As in this nation, and in most others, there is hard resistance against the reality of climate change resulting from the warming caused by the burning of fossil fuels. This resistance is both by those whose economic interests will be damaged by efforts to reduce emissions, and by those who routinely resist any kind of change in any sphere.

As for the Chinese being a society meekly led, you need to get up to speed on the politics in China at present.

SpringerLink - Journal Article

Abstract The purposes, objectives and technology pathways for alternative energy development are discussed with the aim of reaching sustainable energy development in China. Special attention has been paid to alternative power and alternative vehicle fuels. Instead of limiting alternative energy to energy sources such as nuclear and renewable energy, the scope of discussion is extended to alternative technologies such as coal power with carbon capture and sequestration (CCS), electric and hydrogen vehicles. In order to take account of the fact that China’s sustainable energy development involves many dimensions, a six-dimensional indicator set has been established and applied with the aim of comprehensively evaluating different technology pathways in a uniform way. The analysis reaches the following conclusions: (a) in the power sector, wind power, nuclear power and hydro power should be developed as much as possible, while R&D of solar power and coal power with CCS should be strengthened continuously for future deployment. (b) in the transportation sector, there is no foreseeable silver bullet to replace oil on a large scale within the time frame of 20 to 30 years. To ease the severe energy security situation, expedient choices like coal derived fuels could be developed. However, its scale should be optimized in accordance to the trade-off of energy security benefits, production costs and environmental costs. Desirable alternative fuels (or technologies) like 2nd generation biofuels and electrical vehicles should be the subject of intensive R&D with the objective to be cost effective as early as possible.

 

[Sodafin]

you're very naive.

this is about money and nothing else

But that is because your views on climate change are based not on science, but on politics - hence you assume everyone is taking the same approach.

But when the Kenyan government look at the death of a game park which attracts 100,000 tourists a year, what they are reacting to is not political, but an economic and geographic reality.

The same is true with rising water levels in Bangladesh, Holland and Indonesia, with desertification in Spain and Australia, and with ocean ph damaging coral in Australia and the Pacific Basin.

 

[Sodafin]

The Chinese at present produce more wind turbines and solar panels than any other nation on earth. They are actively trying to reduce their population with the one child policy. They have actually shut down some coal mining areas with the resultant economic distress in those areas.

.

That is all true, but what the above research suggests I think is just that they joined this party about 20 years after the rest of the world did. Which means we may have to wait another decade or two before ordinary Chinese people start to take environmental issues more seriously.

It may be that China can catch up fast - often totalitarian regimes can change faster than democratic societies because they don't waste time on debate and discussion! - but they really need to start closing down coal and improving public transport fast if they are to lower their emissions.

 

[Old Rocks]

China is catching up fast. Fast enough that it is scary. They are actively developing technologies that we have already dismissed. In fact, they are graduating about ten times the number of engineers every year that we do.



Why Warren Buffett is investing in electric car company BYD - Apr. 13, 2009

Fortune Magazine) -- Warren Buffett is famous for his rules of investing: When a management with a reputation for brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for bad economics, it is usually the reputation of the business that remains intact. You should invest in a business that even a fool can run, because someday a fool will. And perhaps most famously, Never invest in a business you cannot understand.

So when Buffett's friend and longtime partner in Berkshire Hathaway (BRKB), Charlie Munger, suggested early last year that they invest in BYD, an obscure Chinese battery, mobile phone, and electric car company, one might have predicted Buffett would cite rule No. 3 above. He is, after all, a man who shunned the booming U.S. tech industry during the 1990s.

But Buffett, who is 78, was intrigued by Munger's description of the entrepreneur behind BYD, a man named Wang Chuan-Fu, whom he had met through a mutual friend. "This guy," Munger tells Fortune, "is a combination of Thomas Edison and Jack Welch - something like Edison in solving technical problems, and something like Welch in getting done what he needs to do. I have never seen anything like it."


0:00 /3:23Buffett eyes electric cars
Coming from Munger, that meant a lot. Munger, the 85-year-old vice chairman of Berkshire Hathaway, is a curmudgeon who frowns on most investment ideas. "When I call Charlie with an idea," Buffett tells me, "and he says, 'That is really a dumb idea,' that means we should put 100% of our net worth into it. If he says, 'That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard,' then you should put 50% of your net worth into it. Only if he says, 'I'm going to have you committed,' does it mean he really doesn't like the idea."

 

[Old Rocks]

BYD is building an all electric with a 250 mile range, about a 90 mph top end, room for 5 adults and luggage. For about $40,000. They have also already built a Camry sized car with a 62 mile all electric range, a 360 mile gas and electric range. For $22,000.

BYD is also the second biggest manufacturer of rechargable batteries worldwide. It looks like China will take the lead in a very important market.

 

[Sodafin]

BYD is building an all electric with a 250 mile range, about a 90 mph top end, room for 5 adults and luggage. For about $40,000. They have also already built a Camry sized car with a 62 mile all electric range, a 360 mile gas and electric range. For $22,000.

BYD is also the second biggest manufacturer of rechargable batteries worldwide. It looks like China will take the lead in a very important market.

And innovation is what this debate should be all about right now.

Norway is leading the world in osmotic energy, Germany and Spain dominate wind and solar products, although the US is also strong in some areas.

I'd like to see Finnish companies looking to innovate, export and create private sector jobs in the same way.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Actually they do care, in my experience.

I was in Kenya a couple of months ago, where the leading story is about how illegal settlements have screwed up the water table feeding Lake Nakuru National Park - an area hit very hard by climate change. I was both surprised and impressed to see the government involved in tree planting and reforestation as a means of countering desertification.

It's funny you mention Rwanda - probably the country in Africa with the best government, and one that will no doubt be a leader in renewable energy. They are already working to use more natural gas, which they source from Lake Kivu.

you're very naive.

this is about money and nothing else

Sodafin... Skull Pilot is a '36 percenter' ...

Oscar Wilde said: "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between"

He forgot to mention 36% remained barbarians

Barbarian?

So you too are stupid enough to believe that developing coutries don't want the trillions of dollars that will be taken from us and given to them?

You must be one of the 20% who still believe in fucking fairy tales.

Like the fairy tale that the fucking government taxing us into poverty will somehow make the planet cooler.

 

[Bfgrn]

you're very naive.

this is about money and nothing else

Sodafin... Skull Pilot is a '36 percenter' ...

Oscar Wilde said: "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between"

He forgot to mention 36% remained barbarians

Barbarian?

So you too are stupid enough to believe that developing coutries don't want the trillions of dollars that will be taken from us and given to them?

You must be one of the 20% who still believe in fucking fairy tales.

Like the fairy tale that the fucking government taxing us into poverty will somehow make the planet cooler.

Skunk Pilot...no, the government should encourage Mountaintop removal mining...just let the f_cking & earth 'breath'...

Government(s) represents the only vehicle that can address the raping of our planet for private profit...

Don't try to cross the street without an adult holding your hand...OK?

 

[Sodafin]

Like the fairy tale that the fucking government taxing us into poverty will somehow make the planet cooler.

That is not would make the planet cooler.

What would make the planet cooler is fuel efficiency, and converting from using coal and oil as fuels to using nuclear, wind, solar and tidal.

That isn't a fairy tale at all, then, is it?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Like the fairy tale that the fucking government taxing us into poverty will somehow make the planet cooler.

That is not would make the planet cooler.

What would make the planet cooler is fuel efficiency, and converting from using coal and oil as fuels to using nuclear, wind, solar and tidal.

That isn't a fairy tale at all, then, is it?

You mean the nuclear power plants that we won't build because they're bad for the planet?