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If you have a source of the rules of dhimitude that comes from a source other than Abdur-Rahman bin Ghanm Al-Ash`ari recording the 3rd calph Umar bin Al-Khattab post it.So find the ahadith that specifically support these actions. Hurry back, now.
The status of the dhimmie was established by the 3rd Islamic ruler, 2nd after mohallah .One of the 4 Rashidun and is documented here.
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir
Alright, let's see the isnad.
It's a religion that wants to destroy all other religions, control society, and it kills people. What more is there to know?So what do you think about that second part of that verse?
Here are some other translations
Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 8:39
and all worship is devoted to God alone
and religion is all for Allah
and religion should be only for Allah
and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere
replaces discord and Allah's system of faith and worship prevails,
and so that the entire system is God's.
and all worship is devoted to God alone:
and their obedience be wholly unto Allah.
Are you detecting anything yet?
Forget itDon't pull your head out of your silkyasssalad.Don't worry about it.Don't question what you know , you dont know.
I meet bigots like you all the time.
Im sure you emerged from the womb, an expert on Islam, jihad ,and zalimun .
Sorry, Ibn Kathir's report does not come directly from 'Abd ur-Rahman. So, where is the isnad? I wonder why Ibn Kathir decided not to include it.If you have a source of the rules of dhimitude that comes from a source other than Abdur-Rahman bin Ghanm Al-Ash`ari recording the 3rd calph Umar bin Al-Khattab post it.
Can you document any appearance of the "Pact of Umar" before Al-Khallal referred to it a couple of centuries after it was supposedly written?We can go with later leader like Abd al-Azziz.
or Abu Yusuf under Caliph Harun al-Rashid
What ever you think will make Islam look good.
Where do you think the rules of dhimmitude come from?
I "refused" to do this?You refused to state when Quran 2:256 was uttered and what the source was .
Lets start with those 2.
Why don't Muslim Leaders sound like our Leaders regarding their "Extremists"?
You have an endless line of American leaders, political leaders from both sides, religious and all others denouncing the burning of a book, and act of "Free Speech" according to our own Constitution and Laws.
In essence, we are willing to collectively denounce one of our own who is exercising their Constitutional Rights, because it is Inherently wrong But legal and causes NO harm to ANY person.
You can't get Muslim leaders to denounce almost anything that their "Extremists" do, from beheadings to executing Homosexuals... Err, wait a minute... Those ARE the Leaders in Islam who are doing that! At least in Islams Homeland where its REAL leaders are, that is.
Are those of you who continue to be sympathetic to Islam while you call Christianity "Intolerant" and "Hateful" starting to get it yet?
One asshat with a following of dozens gets the Free Press to fixate on him about threatening to burn a book, and we have to worry about Americans DYING over it.
Literally, that is what (43)s General is saying Thats what Obama is saying Thats what the FEAR is. If we exercise our Free Speech in a way that upsets Islamists, then we can count on Americans Dying.
We are losing this War And most people dont even see it happening.
And as long as we continue to cater to this Absurdity that is Islam and their Murderous, Genocidal and Psychotic reactions to things like CARTOONS, then we are doomed to lose this War ultimately.
It is WAY past time to WAKE THE **** UP, people!
If you want to be angry with someone about this Quran burning, be angry with the Free Press for profiting off of the coverage they created for OBVIOUSLY Selfish reasons.
This idiot in Florida is inconsequential without the Free Press.
With their support, he is a weapon against the Right, because they will paint a perception that this is American Christianity, and in that, it is the Party who appears to be on the road to victory this fall in the Elections The Republican Party.
And worse, they are a dying industry in dire need of advertising They get that by getting the American people festered and keeping their attention.
This is not unlike the attempt by the newly bankrupt Newsweak and their ABJECT LIE about our Soldiers flushing Qurans while they were fighting on 2 fronts.
How many died at the hands of angry Muslims so that Newsweak could try to make their budget?
The real villain right now isnt this inbred hayseed in Florida Its the Free Press and their shameless attempts at assisting their Party by making news out of this.
The next REAL villain will be the Islamists who murder over this act of Free Speech on American soil, God or Allah forbid he goes through with it.
The tragedy will be when the Left and their Free Press excuses those Murders and Violence on the part of Muslims in the name of Allah because they were insulted by a book burning redneck in Florida.
Is it getting any clearer?
Copyright ©2010 - tha malcontent/americanfreepress.org
peace...
Yep, it sounds like Mo also bought into God's command to not worship other Gods...amazing!So what do you think about that second part of that verse?
Here are some other translations
Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 8:39
and all worship is devoted to God alone
and religion is all for Allah
and religion should be only for Allah
and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere
replaces discord and Allah's system of faith and worship prevails,
and so that the entire system is God's.
and all worship is devoted to God alone:
and their obedience be wholly unto Allah.
Are you detecting anything yet?
I have not made any claims; I've merely asked you to provide the isnad. Why are you having so much trouble with this?The scholars of Hadith narrated from
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir
If you have a more detailed account produce it,
Is it necessary? Do you have any proof it is outside the tenants of Islam?
Dhimmi encyclopedia topics | Reference.com
It wasn't the dhimmis writing the agreements was it?
If your contention is that this pact originated with Umar, I'm sure you can provide an account of it from one of the many Islamic historians who were active in the first couple of centuries after the events supposedly occurred.If you have proof produce it. I have no fear of being contradicted.
I see you're trying to avoid providing this very simple information at all costs...As you well know the pact of umar is retcon typical of Islam but falls well with in traditional opinion.based on 9:33,3:17,34:24,3:110,35:37,8:41, Give or take an ayat depending on the translation.
Did you miss my last post?Yeah you refuse to give a year specifically and the source .
If something abrogates it, it should be very easy for you to produce a hadith saying as much.But if we are to accept what you say, then it is your contention that nothing that happened in the next almost 20 years doesn't abrogate 2:256.
Getting mad?You just keep thinking that kaafir.
That Islam getting any stranger for you?
I have not made any claims; I've merely asked you to provide the isnad. Why are you having so much trouble with this?The scholars of Hadith narrated from
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir
If you have a more detailed account produce it,
Is it necessary? Do you have any proof it is outside the tenants of Islam?
Dhimmi encyclopedia topics | Reference.com
It wasn't the dhimmis writing the agreements was it?
If your contention is that this pact originated with Umar, I'm sure you can provide an account of it from one of the many Islamic historians who were active in the first couple of centuries after the events supposedly occurred.If you have proof produce it. I have no fear of being contradicted.
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 53 :: Hadith 388
Narrated Juwairiya bin Qudama At-Tamimi:
We said to 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, Jo Chief of the believers! Advise us." He said, "I advise you to fulfill Allah's Convention (made with the Dhimmis) as it is the convention of your Prophet and the source of the livelihood of your dependents (i.e. the taxes from the Dhimmis.) "
But if we are to accept what you say, then it is your contention that nothing that happened in the next almost 20 years doesn't abrogate 2:256.
If something abrogates it, it should be very easy for you to produce a hadith saying as much.
Nice isnt it.It's hilarious how a dude with an inflatable pig floating between two minarets in his avatar is trying to tell a Muslim about what Islam really is. This is priceless.
You're suggesting that the text of this "pact" originated with Umar (RA), or at least with his approval. I'm simply asking to see some evidence of this from his contemporaries.Im not suggestion Umar ibn al-Khattab invented the idea of dhimmitide that would be ridicules .It is clear the status was in force during the time of the "prophet"
OK, then show me the isnad.The evidance of Abd al-Rahman ibn Ghanam recording Umars opinion of the conditions and status of the dhimmie are well know and available if you wish to look.
So, where is the reference to 2:256?I have hundreds of times, also the Quran verses.
9:5, 8:39. 2:193
Abdullah bin 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported:
Allah's Messenger said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, perform the Prayer, and pay Zakah. If they do that, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
??????? - ?????? - ???? ???????
It's hilarious how a dude with an inflatable pig floating between two minarets in his avatar is trying to tell a Muslim about what Islam really is. This is priceless.
According to Al-Turtushi in Siraj al-Muluk.You're suggesting that the text of this "pact" originated with Umar (RA), or at least with his approval. I'm simply asking to see some evidence of this from his contemporaries.Im not suggestion Umar ibn al-Khattab invented the idea of dhimmitide that would be ridicules .It is clear the status was in force during the time of the "prophet"
The evidance of Abd al-Rahman ibn Ghanam recording Umars opinion of the conditions and status of the dhimmie are well know and available if you wish to look.
I am not aware of any beyond what I have listed that is sufficient . I would be interested to see any further confirmation you may have .OK, then show me the isnad.
So, where is the reference to 2:256?
I have hundreds of times, also the Quran verses.
9:5, 8:39. 2:193
Abdullah bin 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported:
Allah's Messenger said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, perform the Prayer, and pay Zakah. If they do that, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
??????? - ?????? - ???? ???????
Is this the At-Turtushi who died in the 520th year of the Hijra?According to Al-Turtushi in Siraj al-Muluk.You're suggesting that the text of this "pact" originated with Umar (RA), or at least with his approval. I'm simply asking to see some evidence of this from his contemporaries.Im not suggestion Umar ibn al-Khattab invented the idea of dhimmitide that would be ridicules .It is clear the status was in force during the time of the "prophet"
I know of several possible chains of transmission depending on what version of the "pact" you prefer.I am not aware of any beyond what I have listed that is sufficient . I would be interested to see any further confirmation you may have .
The referencing is unnecessary the text and meaning are perspicuous in-spite of your deliberate attempt to make it incomprehensible.
The Quran abrogates the quran not hadith abrogates the QuranThe referencing is unnecessary the text and meaning are perspicuous in-spite of your deliberate attempt to make it incomprehensible.
Sorry, that isn't how abrogation works. In every case, we find that the Prophet (SAWS) or one of the Sahaba (RA) identifies when abrogation occurs. I'm sorry that you're realizing that reality and your beliefs are inconsistent. Here is an example of what you need to provide:
Ibn Abbas said: This verse abrogated [the widow's] dwelling in her dead husband's house, and she could complete the 'idda. - Bukhari
