Why does the Rightwing Conservatives Hate Unions?

[Skull Pilot]

Personally i don't want some idiot union rep looking out for me.

I was forced to join a union once and all it did was cost me money. Union reps spent more time defending the fuck ups who should have been fired than anything else.

I was told I couldn't work through my lunch break and that I couldn't skip my 15 minute breaks. Really what the fuck does the union care if I work through lunch so I can leave 30 minutes earlier? The owner didn't care the idiot union rep gave me all kinds of shit about it.

Unions are for sheep.

Correction: that's well compensated sheep.

But sheep nonetheless.

 

[Big Fitz]

Try alll you want.

You will never stop the American people from freedom of assembly.


The corporations may own your mind but you are many fewer than you dream you are.

The people have been roused from their sleep.

You can look forward to workers in the streets from now on

You just remember that when the Tea Parties start up in force again. I can already hear the yowls from you over it.

the people have been roused. Walker is the result, doing precisely what the voters in WI wanted.

 

[boedicca]

Yeah. Walker won.

And as usual, the lefties loves democracy until they lose.

 

[Big Fitz]

One of the basic principles underlying the US Constitution is a system of "checks and balances" whereby no one person or institution wields absolute power.

Teachers are one of the "cornerstones" of any modern, successful society and an attack on their democratic right to organize is an attack on them!

You're public school educated aren't you?

There are no 'checks and balances' for employment. It is to prevent abuse of power by government.

 

[rightwinger]

In the past 30 years, employers have been demanding more and more while workers have made more and more concessions.

Workers are working more hours and receiving fewer benefits. In tough economic times, workers are told to make do with less or risk losing their jobs.
While workers are accepting concessions, they are witnessing their top executives take more compensation.

That is why unions are needed

Huh? What was the minimum wage 30 years ago....?

$2.10 an hour

I made minimum wage 30 years ago. On that $2.10 an hour I could afford to work part time over the summers and earn enough to pay for my college tuition

Can't do that now

 

[jgarden]

Huh? What was the minimum wage 30 years ago....?

30 years ago, a CEO would make about 20 times the average worker in that company. Now they make 300 to 400 times as much. Look at the CEO of Cigna. They produce nothing. They are merely middle men for hospitals, doctors and nurses. The CEO received a paycheck of $120,000,000.00. Is this what you are defending?

Question, how many insurance policies do you have to "skim" to make a single salary of $120,000,000.00? I wonder what the other executives from that company make? Don't you? What about all the other companies?

CEO wages have what to do with employee unions again?

Apparently "leading by example" is a concept to which "Dirk the Daring" doesn't subscribe.

There is nothing more corrosive to the morale of any organization than leaders telling his/her people to "do without," and then find out they've given themselves a "bonus!"

 

[rightwinger]

In the past 30 years, employers have been demanding more and more while workers have made more and more concessions.

Workers are working more hours and receiving fewer benefits. In tough economic times, workers are told to make do with less or risk losing their jobs.
While workers are accepting concessions, they are witnessing their top executives take more compensation.

That is why unions are needed

Huh? What was the minimum wage 30 years ago....?

30 years ago, a CEO would make about 20 times the average worker in that company. Now they make 300 to 400 times as much. Look at the CEO of Cigna. They produce nothing. They are merely middle men for hospitals, doctors and nurses. The CEO received a paycheck of $120,000,000.00. Is this what you are defending?

Question, how many insurance policies do you have to "skim" to make a single salary of $120,000,000.00? I wonder what the other executives from that company make? Don't you? What about all the other companies?

Oh, here's a link.

CIGNA Denies Cancer Patient Care, CEO Makes $120 Million In Five Years - Not A Coincidence | Crooks and Liars

If you want more, go look them up. Just search CEO makes 120 million.

You could justify it if you could show that those CEOs lead American companies to a larger percentage of the global market. But they didn't. American companies have lost on the global market and CEOs have seen their compensation skyrocket

Meanwhile worker pay has been stagnant and benefits are less

 

[rightwinger]

The 'employer' assumes the majority of the risk, and therefore is entitled to 'more' than the employees. Hell, w/o the 'employer,' the employee wouldn't exist.

Unions were set up to provide standard working conditions for employees; well, the gov't does that now, so why do we still need unions?

It is a two sided coin

The employer "gives" nothing. He receives labor for which he makes a profit. Risk is spread around. If management takes a risk and fails....it is the employee who is first in line to pay the price

You act as if the employer and the employee are on equal ground, this is false, they are not. The employer is not beholden to the employee and has the RIGHT to take chances with his or her business. Sometimes those risks fail, sometimes they don't.

How right you are...
And the employee is not beholden to the employer and has the RIGHT to union representation to ensure he is properly compensated

 

[GWV5903]

The animosity is chilling, but never the less consistent and irritating. Maybe we could actually have a discussion without the name calling, and find out exactly what is the right cons problem with Unions.

It seems to me Unions are a role model for what Capitalism stands for. To exploit the corporation for fair living wages & benefits, in exchange for an honest days work. And to get a fair working package a negotiation takes place and a contract written explaining what each side expects from the other side (labor vs. business). Nothing is hidden.

Capitalism allows workers to negotiate their own wage & benefits as individuals or as a collective, with the idea of extracting the maximum from the employer for each hour of work performed. The employer hires as many people as he wishes, from those that will work for him, and exploits workers for the lowest wages & benefit packages he can get for his hour of labor.

So the Union member or private sector worker gives an honest days work, and the employer gives an honest days wages & benefits.

So why do rightys hate Unions? They support America and prefer capitalism?

Detroit ring any bells? UAW? Do you believe these are shining examples of union success?

Just curious, lol....

 

[bodecea]

How about the simple answer:


No one likes thugs, bullies, criminals, gangsters, and thieves.

And as the Right wing will tell you, Unions are nothing but thugs, bullies, criminals, gangsters, and thieves.

 

[Mr Natural]

The animosity is chilling, but never the less consistent and irritating. Maybe we could actually have a discussion without the name calling, and find out exactly what is the right cons problem with Unions.

It seems to me Unions are a role model for what Capitalism stands for. To exploit the corporation for fair living wages & benefits, in exchange for an honest days work. And to get a fair working package a negotiation takes place and a contract written explaining what each side expects from the other side (labor vs. business). Nothing is hidden.

Capitalism allows workers to negotiate their own wage & benefits as individuals or as a collective, with the idea of extracting the maximum from the employer for each hour of work performed. The employer hires as many people as he wishes, from those that will work for him, and exploits workers for the lowest wages & benefit packages he can get for his hour of labor.

So the Union member or private sector worker gives an honest days work, and the employer gives an honest days wages & benefits.

So why do rightys hate Unions? They support America and prefer capitalism?

Detroit ring any bells? UAW? Do you believe these are shining examples of union success?

Just curious, lol....

Crappy products, out-of-touch marketing, piss-poor management, and foreign competition is what did in Detroit.

Not the workers.

 

[rightwinger]

The animosity is chilling, but never the less consistent and irritating. Maybe we could actually have a discussion without the name calling, and find out exactly what is the right cons problem with Unions.

It seems to me Unions are a role model for what Capitalism stands for. To exploit the corporation for fair living wages & benefits, in exchange for an honest days work. And to get a fair working package a negotiation takes place and a contract written explaining what each side expects from the other side (labor vs. business). Nothing is hidden.

Capitalism allows workers to negotiate their own wage & benefits as individuals or as a collective, with the idea of extracting the maximum from the employer for each hour of work performed. The employer hires as many people as he wishes, from those that will work for him, and exploits workers for the lowest wages & benefit packages he can get for his hour of labor.

So the Union member or private sector worker gives an honest days work, and the employer gives an honest days wages & benefits.

So why do rightys hate Unions? They support America and prefer capitalism?

Detroit ring any bells? UAW? Do you believe these are shining examples of union success?

Just curious, lol....

Did the UAW design those cars that couldn't sell?

US cars are cheaper than their foreign competitors and still nobody wants to buy them

 

[Shoobis1]

The animosity is chilling, but never the less consistent and irritating. Maybe we could actually have a discussion without the name calling, and find out exactly what is the right cons problem with Unions.

It seems to me Unions are a role model for what Capitalism stands for. To exploit the corporation for fair living wages & benefits, in exchange for an honest days work. And to get a fair working package a negotiation takes place and a contract written explaining what each side expects from the other side (labor vs. business). Nothing is hidden.

Capitalism allows workers to negotiate their own wage & benefits as individuals or as a collective, with the idea of extracting the maximum from the employer for each hour of work performed. The employer hires as many people as he wishes, from those that will work for him, and exploits workers for the lowest wages & benefit packages he can get for his hour of labor.

So the Union member or private sector worker gives an honest days work, and the employer gives an honest days wages & benefits.

So why do rightys hate Unions? They support America and prefer capitalism?

The concept of labor unions itself is the essence of freedom. It's people joining together and creating organizations to better their lives. It's people using their rights to take care of business themselves without needing the government to do it for them. I think we should be encouraging the idea of labor unions and citizen organizations of all kinds.

However, some of the practices of labor unions have actually given them unfair advantages. When an employer requires that their employees belong to a union, then that employer loses essential powers. Employers need to preserve the right to hire non-union employees if they want, and that includes the government. Right now there's a law in Wisconsin that government employees have to belong to the union. This has given the unions an imbalance of power that has let them get wages that are higher than their fair-market value.

Union workers are often paid higher than non-union workers and are paid more than they should be for the health of the employer. Something that's bad for the employer is ultimately going to be bad for the employees because an employer needs to remain healthy and competitive in order to provide well for its employees. This is one of the fundamental (true) principles of capitalism--what's good for the employer is good for the employee, and vice-versa.

Many union workers get paid more than their fair market value--much more, in some cases. And then they demand even more. When employers refuse and try to do the smart thing, sometimes union members throw hissy fits and whine, which is irritating since they're already getting paid more than their fair share.

 

[Truthmatters]

The right would rather blame everything on American workers than international corporations

 

[GHook93]

What's to love? What's to even like?

Negatives Effects of the Modern Unions:
(1) They are the number 1 reason American Manufacturing has moved over seas!
(2) They strong-arm Politicians into providing inflated and tax payor funded Pension Plans, and over-valued benefits. The strong arm the State government in creating too many government organizations and unless jobs.
(3) They kill employers by strong arming them into unreasonable employment contracts
(4) They are a business killing and job killing arm of the marxist movement
(5) Corruption is so rambid, money is wasted so enormously, that Unions do so much more damage to the workers they represent then actually help them!

 

[Mr Natural]

The right would rather blame everything on American workers than international corporations

To the right, workers (aka human beings) are nothing more than another resource to be exploited for financial gain.

 

[boedicca]

Wrong.

To the right, workers are individuals who have the liberty to seek work based upon their preferences, skills, education and any other factors which are personal to them.

 

[Truthmatters]

They also have the right to free assembly and to work in unison for their benifit

 

[boedicca]

Nobody said they didn't have the right to freely assemble, nor to work in unison as long as their employer freely agrees to such an arrangement. In the real world, working in unison generally results in very low productivity as work is reduced to the lowest common denominator of performance. Most employers, with the exception of career politician-public union ones, try to avoid such low productivity schemes.

 

[rightwinger]

What's to love? What's to even like?

Negatives Effects of the Modern Unions:
(1) They are the number 1 reason American Manufacturing has moved over seas!
(2) They strong-arm Politicians into providing inflated and tax payor funded Pension Plans, and over-valued benefits. The strong arm the State government in creating too many government organizations and unless jobs.
(3) They kill employers by strong arming them into unreasonable employment contracts
(4) They are a business killing and job killing arm of the marxist movement
(5) Corruption is so rambid, money is wasted so enormously, that Unions do so much more damage to the workers they represent then actually help them!

You could make the same list about US Corporations....only they control more politicians