Why does one polar circle, the Antarctic, have 9 times the ice of the other?

[LaDexter]

"Go read about the last 4 Ice Ages that the Earth experienced and tell me how "continent specific" they were. "


You read. You parrot. You never think.

Antarctica has 70 million year old dinosaur fossils on it...

Two New Dinosaurs Discovered in Antarctica

" This 70-million-year-old dinosaur is the only known Antarctic meat-eater from the late Cretaceous period "

Now, was Antarctica on the South Pole 70 million years ago? Did those dinos live on top of 2 miles of ice in -60F temperatures?

Get a clue. When Antarctica broke off from Africa 120 mil years ago (still attached to South America, which broke off from Antarctica 50-80 mil years ago), it was not frozen because it was not on the South Pole. It moved there...

THAT is what drives "ice ages." That is what the data clearly shows right now. Continents that get within 600 miles of an Earth Pole fail to melt all their snow during the summer. When that happens, the ice starts to stack. Stack it for 800k years and you get 800k cubic miles of ice on Greenland. Stack it for 50 mil years and you get 8 mil cubic miles of ice on Antarctica...

The entire dynamic of the last million years of Northern Hemisphere climate change proves it. There, North America thawed while Greenland froze, all at the same time on the same planet with the same atmosphere with the same amount of CO2 in the atmosphere...

Next time, try THINKING over PARROTING easily discredited fudgebaking liars...

 

[LaDexter]

And the arctic has ships that stir the currents in the Arctic. hmmmmm no one ever mentions that. If humans left it alone, perhaps it would be a bit colder in the arctic, but I don't really care.

Today is 60 in chicago and Saturday is expected to be 95 and then Sunday 70. Now that's what CO2 can do for you. CO2 is magic.It can make one day hotter by 20 degrees.

The Arctic Ocean is growing. As it grows, the sea ice will melt and form just around Greenland. The Arctic warming over the past million years or so is in the process of stopping. The question is not whether the Arctic is warming or not. The question is why, given Antarctic cooling and ice growth. Clearly, the atmosphere is eliminated as a possible cause because the atmosphere is constant over both polar circles, one is warming and thawing, the other is cooling and thickening. The Arctic will never be "ice free" as long as Greenland is there and Greenland is within 600 miles of the North Pole (ice age territory). Greenland is a growing strip of land ice age, it prints a new ice core every year, and its glaciers will be 2 miles high in 5-10 million years.

 

[LaDexter]

If you cannot answer that question, you know precisely nothing about Earth climate change...

it's most likely a combination of the ice being on land and the gulf stream heading north.

the water around the arctic poles looks black and therefore absorbs sunlight

the arctic ice is in the water and has things living off of it that melt it


there's a bunch of reasons, none of them are more important than who pays who to cry that we are all going to die soon if we don't give more control to the worlds governments.

the water warms the arctic but the land cannot warm the antarctic. Don't let the warmers off that easy, they do not know this.

Water warmer than ice!!!

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Two Thumbs]

If you cannot answer that question, you know precisely nothing about Earth climate change...

it's most likely a combination of the ice being on land and the gulf stream heading north.

the water around the arctic poles looks black and therefore absorbs sunlight

the arctic ice is in the water and has things living off of it that melt it


there's a bunch of reasons, none of them are more important than who pays who to cry that we are all going to die soon if we don't give more control to the worlds governments.

the water warms the arctic but the land cannot warm the antarctic. Don't let the warmers off that easy, they do not know this.

I answered out of boredom.

guess I was right since he never replied.

 

[Crick]

What point would that be and how was it proven?

We are discussing the difference between the Arctic Circle and the Antarctic Circle.

No, we we weren't, but reality doesn't seem to have a strong grip on you in any sense, so let's just watch and see where you end up

Here are the basics...

1. Antarctic surface temps are, on average, 50 F colder than the Arctic (I've seen 43 F to 60 F, so I averaged and rounded down. NOBODY disputes that when air flows over the Antarctic, it cools more than it does going over the Arctic, something in the ballpark of 50 F. That's the "air conditioner" at work cooling Earth's atmosphere.

You have a simplistic and puerile view of a lot of physics. Care to explain why Antarctica doesn't warm up from all that heat getting dumped there? Where does that energy go? Let me guess, you're going to say it is absorbed by the enormous mass of ice there. Then I will ask, how did that enormous mass of ice form if warm air was constantly blowing over the area?

2. Antarctica pumps 9 times the ice into the oceans vs. the Arctic, and 46 times the molecular H20 that the Mississippi River pumps into the Gulf.

Again, for the apparently untrainable. Antarctica pumps infinitely more ice into the ocean than does the Arctic because the Arctic adds none.

That Antarctic ice is also much colder than the ice from your freezer.

It seems to have eluded your deep and profound thinking processes, but most of the people you see posting on this board have been here for several years discussing nothing but global warming, climate change, CO2 and the like. Some of us have college degrees in science and science-related fields and have had some research experience. Sorry to say this, but you, quite obviously, do not and have not. You act as if we've all been sitting here in an information vacuum waiting for you to arrive and fill us all in. That would be an error on your part. For that matter, the only thing you've shown us so far are errors on your part. But let's carry on.

The Russians found -200 F deep in the Antarctic Glacier about 10 years ago when they were drilling to a lake covered by ice for 50 mil years. Since the Antarctic dumps 9 times the ice into the oceans vs. the Arctic, it cools the oceans more too...

And do you believe that's a permanent arrangement? I have to ask you, once again, where do you believe all that heat energy is going? You talk here as if you believe Antarctica was some sort of infinite heat sink.

The difference is entirely WHERE LAND IS. 90% of Earth ice is on Antarctica. 7% is on Greenland. So 97% of Earth ice is on the two land masses closes to an Earth pole.

This is really profound. So... perhaps we can cure global warming if we can get the Chinese to move their South China Sea island building above the Arctic Circle.

Look and notice. The Earth's two "AC units" have settings 0=off to 10=maxcool. The Arctic is set at 1, and the Antarctic is set at 9. THAT is what dictates Earth's current climate. Have a look...



This one below is set at 1...





and this one is set at 9....






So perhaps LAND NEAR AN EARTH POLE HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH EARTH CLIMATE CHANGE....

because if we had two polar oceans, Earth would have NO ICE...

Perhaps. Do you have a link to some peer reviewed science that comes to that same conclusion?

While you're looking for that, allow me to make a few points.

The Earth's climate has changed a great deal faster than plate tectonics has moved any significant amount of land in or out of the Earth's polar regions. How do you explain changes at those time scales?

Carbon dioxide absorbs and re-radiates a great deal of infrared energy that is not taken up by water vapor or other GHGs. This drives its portion of the greenhouse effect which science gives full credit for the difference between the SB black body temperature of the Earth and its actual temperature. Since you reject the greenhouse effect, can you give us some sort of rough idea how the difference between the "air conditioning" effects of the North and South Poles warms the planet? Or do you have some other process that is accomplishing that function?

 

[LaDexter]

"Care to explain why Antarctica doesn't warm up from all that heat getting dumped there? "

ALL THAT HEAT??? Maybe relative to Pluto, but the Earth poles don't get a lot of heat from the sun....


"how did that enormous mass of ice form if warm air was constantly blowing over the area?"

It started stacking when the land got to around 600 miles of the South Pole, around 50 million years ago. Believe it or not, but liquids and solids are more DENSE than gas. The atmosphere doesn't warm or cool things, but rather is itself warmed or cooled by the area of the Earth it travels over. Your birdbrain is conditioned to bawk parroted BS about the atmosphere. The atmosphere did not move the Antarctic tectonic plate to the South Pole...



" Antarctica pumps infinitely more ice into the ocean than does the Arctic because the Arctic adds none."

Yeah, and that iceberg that hit the Titanic, it is now called DENIER ICEBERG!!!!

That iceberg came from Greenland. Greenland is now pumping more ice into the ocean than it did in 1912...



"It seems to have eluded your deep and profound thinking processes, but most of the people you see posting on this board have been here for several years discussing nothing but global warming, climate change, CO2 and the like. Some of us have college degrees in science and science-related fields and have had some research experience. Sorry to say this, but you, quite obviously, do not and have not. You act as if we've all been sitting here in an information vacuum waiting for you to arrive and fill us all in. That would be an error on your part. For that matter, the only thing you've shown us so far are errors on your part. But let's carry on."


I'm quite sure you have a PhD in Parroting from Dexter Manley University. You have precisely no ability to think for yourself, and every time you parrot fudge and fraud on this board, I will be here to refute you....


"perhaps we can cure global warming "

There is precisely no evidence at all of a planetary warming. The raw data does not support that conclusion. Only idiots who parrot fudge and fraud believe it...

 

[Crick]

Care to explain why Antarctica doesn't warm up from all that heat getting dumped there?

Have you not figured out how to quote?

ALL THAT HEAT??? Maybe relative to Pluto, but the Earth poles don't get a lot of heat from the sun....

You need to follow your own thoughts a little bit better. This comment followed your observation that Antarctica cooled the atmosphere blowing over it more than did the Arctic. You also stated that the Antarctic ice cooled the ocean. Try to keep in mind that there's really no such thing as "cold", simply more or less heat. It's the heat that's moving. If Antarctica is cooling the atmosphere and the oceans, that means a lot of heat from elsewhere on the planet (and, of course, originally from the sun) is moving south.

how did that enormous mass of ice form if warm air was constantly blowing over the area?

It started stacking when the land got to around 600 miles of the South Pole, around 50 million years ago. Believe it or not, but liquids and solids are more DENSE than gas. The atmosphere doesn't warm or cool things, but rather is itself warmed or cooled by the area of the Earth it travels over. Your birdbrain is conditioned to bawk parroted BS about the atmosphere. The atmosphere did not move the Antarctic tectonic plate to the South Pole...

You've got an impressive talent for missing the point. And you'll have to show me where I even suggested that the atmosphere moved the Antarctic plate. And since the atmosphere doesn't warm or cool things, you can feel free to ignore wind chill warnings, right? And convective cooling? Doesn't exist, does it.

Antarctica pumps infinitely more ice into the ocean than does the Arctic because the Arctic adds none.

Yeah, and that iceberg that hit the Titanic, it is now called DENIER ICEBERG!!!!

That iceberg came from Greenland. Greenland is now pumping more ice into the ocean than it did in 1912...

Yes it is. And you believe that is because Greenland has moved away from the pole some significant distance in the last 104 years? That would be unfortunate, because it is moving TOWARDS the poles at a rate of 15-25 mm/yr. Thus the sum total of less than 2.6 meters latitudinal change north - per your hypothesis - has caused Greenland to go from frozen to melting.

It seems to have eluded your deep and profound thinking processes, but most of the people you see posting on this board have been here for several years discussing nothing but global warming, climate change, CO2 and the like. Some of us have college degrees in science and science-related fields and have had some research experience. Sorry to say this, but you, quite obviously, do not and have not. You act as if we've all been sitting here in an information vacuum waiting for you to arrive and fill us all in. That would be an error on your part. For that matter, the only thing you've shown us so far are errors on your part. But let's carry on."

I'm quite sure you have a PhD in Parroting from Dexter Manley University.

I have a BSc in Ocean Engineering. What have you got?

You have precisely no ability to think for yourself, and every time you parrot fudge and fraud on this board, I will be here to refute you....

That will be fun.

perhaps we can cure global warming

There is precisely no evidence at all of a planetary warming. The raw data does not support that conclusion. Only idiots who parrot fudge and fraud believe it...

Hmm... Very, very close to 100% of all the Earth's PhD scientists believe it. Are they idiots?

 

[flacaltenn]

Just before the Cretaceous period (in geo time) there was ONLY ONE continent. Fossils there ARE due to shifts in continents. But the problem with your theory is --- An ICE age is more than a LOCAL event. It affects multiple continents at the same time. As in the LAST 4 ice ages which came in relatively quick succession with little or NO change in "continental position".. For you to have ANY kind of shocking revelation -- you'd have to explain those ice ages in terms of continental motion..

You need a larger view of the historical Continental drift and a better definition of an Ice Age.

The amount of ice on the planet as a whole has been shrinking SINCE the last Ice Age. The fact that the large majority of what's left exists at the south pole on solid ground is no mystery to anybody and is not even "an ice age" by definition..

 

[Crick]

Well, let's get started. Refute these:

The spectra of interest in this question look like this:

As you can see, water vapor is the big player. Fortunately it's level in the atmosphere is stable (though a function of temperature) and it has a very short lifespan. CO2, as you can see, fills in a few of water's gaps in the spectrum. CO2 is not stable on a planet in which billions of humans burn fossil fuels. It also has a lifespan of well over a century. Sort of a lose-lose situation. So, REFUTE AWAY.

Next, we have the correlation between CO2 and warming throughout the last century. I think you've already seen the graphs.

Now, just for fun, temperature correlates with CO2 AND CO2 correlates with temperature. As we all know, CO2 is a greenhouse gas and thus, as its level in the atmosphere rises, the equilibrium temperature of the planet does likewise. The other side of the coin is a different process: gas solubility is INVERSELY proportional to temperature. As the Earth's temperature rises, CO2 solubility in the oceans, the Earth's fresh water and soil, decreases, driving the gas out of solution and in to the atmosphere. A very popular argument among the less educated deniers is that because CO2 participates in the latter function, it cannot participate in the former. Do you agree? I do not, of course, as it makes no sense. But REFUTE AWAY.

The world's temperature has been rising, with a few setbacks, since 1880 or so.

There are absolute mountains of evidence to support that. Temperature records from all over the planet. Then there are the massive secondary effects. The thermal expansion of the world's oceans, the melting of the Arctic, the rise in timberlines across the planet's mountains, the changes in a hundred thousand different seasonal cues. REFUTE AWAY.

 

[LaDexter]

" that means a lot of heat from elsewhere on the planet (and, of course, originally from the sun) is moving south."

Really... Heat moves towards Antarctica because Antarctica is cold. OK, if you say so...???


" And since the atmosphere doesn't warm or cool things, you can feel free to ignore wind chill warnings, right? "

Apparently, in the minds of "warmers," "wind chill" counts as temperatures, clearly for the "climate change" side of "global warming," or something like that...


" And you believe that (more ice from Greenland being pumped into the ocean) is because Greenland has moved away from the pole some significant distance in the last 104 years"

No. Greenland prints (manufactures) a new ICE CORE every year. That allows us to get "climate records" from ice cores. Y'all have to love this. Greenland is "melting" even though it is ADDING A NEW ICE CORE EVERY YEAR. Rather, Greenland's ice thickens every year, and will continue to do so. When its ice thickens, so do the icebergs that it calves. Hence, MORE ICE...


"because it is moving TOWARDS the poles at a rate of 15-25 mm/yr"

Hoora!!!

You got something RIGHT for ONCE!!!!

Greenland IS STILL MOVING CLOSER TO THE POLE. THAT WILL CONTINUE TO COOL IT BY REDUCING ITS HEAT FROM THE SUN AND ALLOW ITS ICE AGE TO GROW. THAT IS WHY THE PLANET IS NOT COOLING, NOR WILL IT COOL IN THE NEXT MILLION YEARS, BECAUSE 97% OF EARTH ICE WILL CONTINUE TO PRINT NEW ICE CORES AND GROW.....

Your heroes DO NOT EVEN HAVE THE CLIMATE FORECAST RIGHT!!!!

Earth will slightly COOL and ocean levels will go DOWN. THAT is why NOBODY who claims to believe in Algore' s BS is selling beachfront property. Just the opposite...

 

[LaDexter]

"Very, very close to 100% of all the Earth's PhD scientists believe it. "

Once again, you parrot falsehoods religiously. 37,000 scientists, many with PhDs, signed a "denialist" statement a decade ago.

I have a degree in Physics.

But PARROTING and DEGREES do not constitute SCIENTIFIC PROOF. That is what I provide, since the truth of Earth climate change is that it is ALL ABOUT WHERE LAND IS and has PRECISELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CO2.

 

[LaDexter]

"The amount of ice on the planet as a whole has been shrinking SINCE the last Ice Age"

LMAO!!!

Nevermind 90% of Earth ice on ice age continent Antarctica ADDING AT LEAST 80 Billion tons of ice every year since Algore started lying about CO2...

NASA Study: Mass Gains of Antarctic Ice Sheet Greater than Losses


You, sir, don't understand anything except how to post color fudge charts...

 

[Crick]

Go read about the last 4 Ice Ages that the Earth experienced and tell me how "continent specific" they were.

You read. You parrot. You never think.

You never provide links to support your position. And you don't seem to know how to quote other posters. Hit the reply button. The entire post will be included in a quote tag. Edit the tag as you wish. Putting things in quotation marks doesn't work because you don't identify the speaker.

Antarctica has 70 million year old dinosaur fossils on it...

So what? The Antarctic plate has moved. How does that prove your claim?

" This 70-million-year-old dinosaur is the only known Antarctic meat-eater from the late Cretaceous period "

Now, was Antarctica on the South Pole 70 million years ago? Did those dinos live on top of 2 miles of ice in -60F temperatures?

Common knowledge Whizzo. What relevance does that have to your claim? The only things demonstrated are plate tectonics and that the equator is warmer than the poles. Fucking profound, eh.

Get a clue. When Antarctica broke off from Africa 120 mil years ago (still attached to South America, which broke off from Antarctica 50-80 mil years ago), it was not frozen because it was not on the South Pole. It moved there...

When you're done lecturing the four-year-olds let us know.

THAT is what drives "ice ages."

How? You haven't explained jack shit. Antarctic moving around did not bury the American midwest or Europe or Asia in snow and ice. The ice ages were NOT continent-specific. So far you've done nothing but babble.

That is what the data clearly shows right now.

WHAT DATA? LET'S SEE IT

Continents that get within 600 miles of an Earth Pole fail to melt all their snow during the summer. When that happens, the ice starts to stack. Stack it for 800k years and you get 800k cubic miles of ice on Greenland. Stack it for 50 mil years and you get 8 mil cubic miles of ice on Antarctica...

Are you actually that stupid? The last Ice Age put ice over 2500 miles from the poles and it was hardly one of the more severe glaciations. During ice ages, the world gets colder due to reduced sunlight. The world simply ices up, starting at the poles and moving towards the equator. The loss of CO2 and other GHGs into solution, water vapor into ice, are major feedback mechanisms. If you have a piece of land near the pole, it will get iced up. That would be a result of a glaciation, not its cause.

The entire dynamic of the last million years of Northern Hemisphere climate change proves it.

You keep saying that, but not only does it prove nothing, you have not even demonstrated that it supports your contention. And you have still not provided a single link from anyone that might actually have an educated opinion on the matter.

There, North America thawed while Greenland froze, all at the same time on the same planet with the same atmosphere with the same amount of CO2 in the atmosphere...

When was this, exactly? I'd like to see a reputable source telling us Greenland grew colder while North America grew warmer. Do you have such a link? How about some firm dates we could look into ourselves?

Next time, try THINKING over PARROTING easily discredited fudgebaking liars...

How about actually debating your argument?

 

[Crick]

" that means a lot of heat from elsewhere on the planet (and, of course, originally from the sun) is moving south."

Really... Heat moves towards Antarctica because Antarctica is cold. OK, if you say so...???

You claim to have a degree in physics? How about if I put an ice cube and a heated rock at the opposite ends of an insulated cooler and wait for 24 hours. Where will I find the heat energy has gone?

And since the atmosphere doesn't warm or cool things, you can feel free to ignore wind chill warnings, right?

Apparently, in the minds of "warmers," "wind chill" counts as temperatures, clearly for the "climate change" side of "global warming," or something like that...

That physics degree is getting more and more dubious bud. Why don't you go look up convective heat transfer before making more grade school mistakes.

And you believe that (more ice from Greenland being pumped into the ocean) is because Greenland has moved away from the pole some significant distance in the last 104 years

No. Greenland prints (manufactures) a new ICE CORE every year. That allows us to get "climate records" from ice cores. Y'all have to love this. Greenland is "melting" even though it is ADDING A NEW ICE CORE EVERY YEAR. Rather, Greenland's ice thickens every year, and will continue to do so. When its ice thickens, so do the icebergs that it calves. Hence, MORE ICE...

So... what the FUCK are you talking about? Please explain to us what the term "ice core" means in your universe.

because it is moving TOWARDS the poles at a rate of 15-25 mm/yr

Hoora!!!

You got something RIGHT for ONCE!!!!

Name a single thing I've gotten wrong'

Greenland IS STILL MOVING CLOSER TO THE POLE. THAT WILL CONTINUE TO COOL IT BY REDUCING ITS HEAT FROM THE SUN AND ALLOW ITS ICE AGE TO GROW. THAT IS WHY THE PLANET IS NOT COOLING, NOR WILL IT COOL IN THE NEXT MILLION YEARS, BECAUSE 97% OF EARTH ICE WILL CONTINUE TO PRINT NEW ICE CORES AND GROW.....

"That will continue to cool it"..."That is why the planet is not cooling"... "Print new ice cores"

Dude, you are in fucking La-La-Land.

Your heroes DO NOT EVEN HAVE THE CLIMATE FORECAST RIGHT!!!!

We know who YOUR hero is: Poster LaDexter. Everyone here is well aware that you haven't posted one single fucking SHRED of supporting data. You've not provided a single link to any respectable scientist saying ANYTHING like the lunatic NONSENSE you've been spewing here.

Earth will slightly COOL and ocean levels will go DOWN. THAT is why NOBODY who claims to believe in Algore' s BS is selling beachfront property. Just the opposite...

Let's see the data.

 

[LaDexter]

"How about if I put an ice cube and a heated rock at the opposite ends of an insulated cooler and wait for 24 hours. Where will I find the heat energy has gone?"


The Earth's atmosphere and oceans are different. An insulated cooler contains. Oceans and atmosphere have currents, including up and down currents. In a lab, the heat and cold mix and the whole cooler goes to one temp in the middle. Hot air from Africa does not rush down to Antarctica because of a lab experiment. It may actually blow north with the wind. It is like the difference between you and I. You parrot, and what you parrot is the be all and end all. I think, and react to the actual data, which is why I get the right answer and you end up looking like a moron...

 

[LaDexter]

"You've not provided a single link to any respectable scientist"

LMFAO!!!

Translation - if Crick cannot parrot it, it does not exist...

What does Co2 have to do with Antarctica having 9 times the ice of the Arctic??

Go ahead, ask your fraudulent heroes that question, since your BEAKED BIRDBRAIN cannot answer it...

 

[LaDexter]

"The only things demonstrated are plate tectonics and that the equator is warmer than the poles. Fucking profound, eh."


How much ice does Earth have if tectonics puts two polar oceans on it??

A: Crick will ask the tippy toppiest "top climate scientists" and parrot "his answer"

 

[Crick]

How about if I put an ice cube and a heated rock at the opposite ends of an insulated cooler and wait for 24 hours. Where will I find the heat energy has gone?

The Earth's atmosphere and oceans are different.

No shit Sherlock

An insulated cooler contains.

What?

Oceans and atmosphere have currents, including up and down currents.

No shit Sherlock. Seem to be the same so far.

In a lab, the heat and cold mix and the whole cooler goes to one temp in the middle.

That's the explanation from someone with a physics degree? "The heat and the cold mix"? Jesus dude. The hot rock got colder. Thermal energy left it. The ice cube got warmer and went through a phase change. It acquired thermal energy. For those both to happen, the energy had to go from the hot rock to the cold ice. Bingo.

Hot air from Africa does not rush down to Antarctica because of a lab experiment.

It's becoming more and more obvious that you've got absolutely nothing to bring to this discussion besides your fantasies. You've now repeatedly stated that global ice ages are precipitated by the accumulation of snow and ice on land masses near the poles. The entire world's temperatures drop during an ice age. For that to then happen as you suggest, that heat must be moving from equatorial regions to the polar regions. There's no other way around it, is there Mr Physics.

It may actually blow north with the wind. It is like the difference between you and I. You parrot, and what you parrot is the be all and end all. I think, and react to the actual data, which is why I get the right answer and you end up looking like a moron...

Yeah. Yeah, that's what's happening here.

 

[LaDexter]

"You've now repeatedly stated that global ice ages are precipitated by the accumulation of snow and ice on land masses near the poles."


Coming from Dexter Manley University, it is not surprising that your reading comprehension skills are very lacking. Ice ages are NOT GLOBAL. They are CONTINENT SPECIFIC. Try to get that right next time...


When ice grows out over water, it tends to BREAK OFF....

 

[LaDexter]

" The entire world's temperatures drop during an ice age."


Yes, it does, and it very much depends on the size of the ice age. If you switched land mass Antarctica with water from the center of the Pacific Ocean, you'd warm the planet 25 degrees. None of that changes the facts here...

1. ice ages are continent specific
2. the planet's climate is 100% about WHERE LAND IS
3. CO2 has NOTHING to do with EArth climate Change...