Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[RetiredGySgt]

I agree, when they start showing they care about the crawling and walking, I'll believe they are pro 'life'

None of you Pro Abortion types have provide a shred of evidence that Pro Choice people do not care about the crawling and walking. We however have ample proof you do not care one whit about human life as you agree snuffing it out in the womb is fine for no other reason then personal discomfort or whim.

It is the pro 'life' people who show no regard for the crawling and walking. I have yet to hear a single outcry from the right about the thousands of innocent Iraqis murdered by the war Bush started. What was their crime?

If you use a condom, or your partner uses an IUD or takes birth control pills, are your murderers?

Just claiming it does not make it so. You have yet to provide any evidence. And preventing a pregnancy is not murder since no human life was ENDED. I will go so far as to say the morning after pill is not murder either as it PREVENTS a pregnancy does not terminate one.

As for war. People that die due to war actions are not murdered as that is the action of Governments. Or are you claiming every soldier in every war on all sides are murderers? Another untenable position.

 

[Bfgrn]

None of you Pro Abortion types have provide a shred of evidence that Pro Choice people do not care about the crawling and walking. We however have ample proof you do not care one whit about human life as you agree snuffing it out in the womb is fine for no other reason then personal discomfort or whim.

It is the pro 'life' people who show no regard for the crawling and walking. I have yet to hear a single outcry from the right about the thousands of innocent Iraqis murdered by the war Bush started. What was their crime?

If you use a condom, or your partner uses an IUD or takes birth control pills, are your murderers?

Just claiming it does not make it so. You have yet to provide any evidence. And preventing a pregnancy is not murder since no human life was ENDED. I will go so far as to say the morning after pill is not murder either as it PREVENTS a pregnancy does not terminate one.

As for war. People that die due to war actions are not murdered as that is the action of Governments. Or are you claiming every soldier in every war on all sides are murderers? Another untenable position.

Ending a life is murder. YOU said it yourself. BUT, when the government sanctions it in war, then it suddenly becomes something else? Well, the government sanctions abortion, doesn't it?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It is the pro 'life' people who show no regard for the crawling and walking. I have yet to hear a single outcry from the right about the thousands of innocent Iraqis murdered by the war Bush started. What was their crime?

If you use a condom, or your partner uses an IUD or takes birth control pills, are your murderers?

Just claiming it does not make it so. You have yet to provide any evidence. And preventing a pregnancy is not murder since no human life was ENDED. I will go so far as to say the morning after pill is not murder either as it PREVENTS a pregnancy does not terminate one.

As for war. People that die due to war actions are not murdered as that is the action of Governments. Or are you claiming every soldier in every war on all sides are murderers? Another untenable position.

Ending a life is murder. YOU said it yourself. BUT, when the government sanctions it in war, then it suddenly becomes something else? Well, the government sanctions abortion, doesn't it?

Ok we are playing semantics. Murder is the intentional taking of another humans life and I will grant that using that definitions those killed purposefully in a war are murdered. I will not grant as you imply that it is criminal nor that it is immoral. The CHOICE to abort a healthy fetus that does not involve any major medical risk to the mother SHOULD be criminal and IS, in MY opinion immoral. It also is the purposeful taking of a human life.

By the way still waiting for evidence that pro life people do not care about the crawling and walking.

 

[Bfgrn]

Just claiming it does not make it so. You have yet to provide any evidence. And preventing a pregnancy is not murder since no human life was ENDED. I will go so far as to say the morning after pill is not murder either as it PREVENTS a pregnancy does not terminate one.

As for war. People that die due to war actions are not murdered as that is the action of Governments. Or are you claiming every soldier in every war on all sides are murderers? Another untenable position.

Ending a life is murder. YOU said it yourself. BUT, when the government sanctions it in war, then it suddenly becomes something else? Well, the government sanctions abortion, doesn't it?

Ok we are playing semantics. Murder is the intentional taking of another humans life and I will grant that using that definitions those killed purposefully in a war are murdered. I will not grant as you imply that it is criminal nor that it is immoral. The CHOICE to abort a healthy fetus that does not involve any major medical risk to the mother SHOULD be criminal and IS, in MY opinion immoral. It also is the purposeful taking of a human life.

By the way still waiting for evidence that pro life people do not care about the crawling and walking.

No, YOU are playing semantics. If willfully ending a human life is murder, then all soldiers who end another person's life are murderers. No one is forcing them to kill are they?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ending a life is murder. YOU said it yourself. BUT, when the government sanctions it in war, then it suddenly becomes something else? Well, the government sanctions abortion, doesn't it?

Ok we are playing semantics. Murder is the intentional taking of another humans life and I will grant that using that definitions those killed purposefully in a war are murdered. I will not grant as you imply that it is criminal nor that it is immoral. The CHOICE to abort a healthy fetus that does not involve any major medical risk to the mother SHOULD be criminal and IS, in MY opinion immoral. It also is the purposeful taking of a human life.

By the way still waiting for evidence that pro life people do not care about the crawling and walking.

No, YOU are playing semantics. If willfully ending a human life is murder, then all soldiers who end another person's life are murderers. No one is forcing them to kill are they?

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it? Already agreed to the term. And specified the difference.

Still waiting by the way , for some evidence that Pro Life people do not care about the crawling or the walking.

 

[Barb]

I dont have to defend myself when it comes to my body.

The child is not your body. Biology 101. Your beloved catchphrase is, to put it plainly, fucking bullshit. You have every right to do with your body as you will so long as you harm nobody else. You may tattoo it, pierce it, and penetrate it with exotic toys all you like. You may not harm another person either with your body (eg: punching someone in the face) or in the course of doing something to your own body (eg: suicide bombing).

Nobody gives a shit what you do with your body. What's at issue is whether or not you may harm another human being- killing generally being recognized as harmful.

Its nobodies business why I had it done

Homicide has always been recognized as a social issue. If I shoot you in the face, it sure as hell is society's business why I did so, so it can be determined whether my acts are acceptable or whether I am guilty of some crime, such as homicide or manslaughter.

When you rely on emotions and refuse to address the matter honestly, you are no different than the wackos waving bibles around. You might be on the other side of the isle, but you are a mirror image of the same mindset.

The bastocyst, until it can survive outside of the host, is a parasite dependent on the hospitality of the female host. THAT is a biological fact.

 

[Article 15]

Ok we are playing semantics. Murder is the intentional taking of another humans life and I will grant that using that definitions those killed purposefully in a war are murdered. I will not grant as you imply that it is criminal nor that it is immoral. The CHOICE to abort a healthy fetus that does not involve any major medical risk to the mother SHOULD be criminal and IS, in MY opinion immoral. It also is the purposeful taking of a human life.

By the way still waiting for evidence that pro life people do not care about the crawling and walking.

No, YOU are playing semantics. If willfully ending a human life is murder, then all soldiers who end another person's life are murderers. No one is forcing them to kill are they?

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it? Already agreed to the term. And specified the difference.

Still waiting by the way , for some evidence that Pro Life people do not care about the crawling or the walking.

So we can assume that you are in favor of social programs in place to assist poor families and single mothers?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No, YOU are playing semantics. If willfully ending a human life is murder, then all soldiers who end another person's life are murderers. No one is forcing them to kill are they?

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it? Already agreed to the term. And specified the difference.

Still waiting by the way , for some evidence that Pro Life people do not care about the crawling or the walking.

So we can assume that you are in favor of social programs in place to assist poor families and single mothers?

Not Federal Government ones, They are Unconstitutional. The States and the local communities are responsible for those.

 

[tyggabooist]

Now hold on there a sec. Having an abortion is not an easy thing to do. It is no picnic, I guarantee you. I dont have to defend myself when it comes to my body. Wanna call me a murderer? Go ahead. Ive called myself much worse when I had it done many many MANY years ago. Its nobodies business why I had it done and I answer to nobody on why I did it.

Say what you will. Unless you are a woman....you have no clue.

Wrong. All people have a right to have an opinion about the ending prematurely of a human life. I will grant that currently it is totally legal to do so. But that does not change the basic facts. A human life was ended prematurely by design of another Human.

I and others find that unacceptable and believe it should not be legal to simply kill another human because it may be inconvenient to the mother of the child. Technically it is not homicide since that definition includes that the act is illegal. It is murder though. Just legal murder.

Hello Everyone

I am new to the board and usually I spend several weeks just watching and reading before I post but I have to say something about this comment. There are many reasons why a woman might have an abortion and saying that it is based on inconvenience is a bit unfair. Inconvenience might be a reason for some, but for others, more serious reasons come into play. Rape, health issues, incest and age are all reasons that a woman might choose to terminate a fetus.

These are issues that cannot be understood unless experienced and to dismiss them as inconvenience is grossly callous. I am sure that wasn't the intention from the original poster, but it bears repeating that unless you are a woman that was raped either by a stranger or a relative and got pregnant, there is no way to judge a woman for her choice.

I have been looking for a new message board for quite awhile, this one looks promising, so it is nice to meet you all.

 

[tyggabooist]

The child is not your body. Biology 101. Your beloved catchphrase is, to put it plainly, fucking bullshit. You have every right to do with your body as you will so long as you harm nobody else. You may tattoo it, pierce it, and penetrate it with exotic toys all you like. You may not harm another person either with your body (eg: punching someone in the face) or in the course of doing something to your own body (eg: suicide bombing).

Nobody gives a shit what you do with your body. What's at issue is whether or not you may harm another human being- killing generally being recognized as harmful.
Homicide has always been recognized as a social issue. If I shoot you in the face, it sure as hell is society's business why I did so, so it can be determined whether my acts are acceptable or whether I am guilty of some crime, such as homicide or manslaughter.

When you rely on emotions and refuse to address the matter honestly, you are no different than the wackos waving bibles around. You might be on the other side of the isle, but you are a mirror image of the same mindset.

Think what you will, as it is beyond my control. What IS in my control is MY BODY. Nobody elses. And until you are impregnated with a life you didnt ask for growing in it, you have no say.

If you are "in control" of your body, you would have the sense to not have unprotected sex therby getting pregnant. and as far as the "didn't ask for" line, you did not know that having sex could lead to a pregnancy?

You must be male. Not all women have sex by choice. There are many, many cases in which the woman did NOT choose to have sex and therefore your assumption is a bit out of line.

 

[Article 15]

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it? Already agreed to the term. And specified the difference.

Still waiting by the way , for some evidence that Pro Life people do not care about the crawling or the walking.

So we can assume that you are in favor of social programs in place to assist poor families and single mothers?

Not Federal Government ones, They are Unconstitutional. The States and the local communities are responsible for those.

Name some programs that help the poor and single mothers that you are in favor of.

 

[midcan5]

Why is it men who cannot make this decision know the proper decision?

"Faith trumps rational argument on this issue?" from youtube below

Does pro-life include not eating and killing other life forms for surely they suffer and die at a more advanced level of life and feeling?

Each month a women, a couple, decide on whether the cells, the potential cells are to be discarded or if they are to attempt a conception and thus life. If they choose not to create life, is that ok, for surely this is life (cellular life) being discarded?

Two out of five (or more) conceptions end naturally, who is at fault here? Nature or gawd? Are these humans?

How is it that a decision that a women or a couple makes is thought of as wrong by another person or entity who have no authority to tell or command another person?

"In the 1950s, about a million illegal abortions a year were performed in the U.S., and over a thousand women died each year as a result. Women who were victims of botched or unsanitary abortions came in desperation to hospital emergency wards, where some died of widespread abdominal infections. Many women who recovered from such infections found themselves sterile or chronically and painfully ill. The enormous emotional stress often lasted a long time."
HISTORY OF ABORTION
Boston Review — Judith Jarvis Thomson
Top 10 Anti-Abortion Myths - Top 10 Myths About Abortion
Why Francis Beckwith


"Abolition of a woman's right to abortion, when and if she wants it, amounts to compulsory maternity: a form of rape by the State." Edward Abbey

 

[Eric Cartman]

If one's position is defensible, shouldn't you be able to defend it with logical, cogent, well-thought-out arguments? Shouldn't you be able to discuss the matter in an honest and intelligent manner?

I seen it done several times. (begin the beating of the dead horse)

A blastocyst/foetus/etc is an organism. It is alive and it is genetically human.* These are verifiable, objective, demonstrable scientific facts. It is all a matter of basic biology.

Yes. So far, so good.

Of course most of our cells are alive and genetically human. (from head to toe)

Therefore, the child is be definition a living human organism. We are, therefore, dealing with a human life. To 'abort' a pregnancy is to bring about the end of those physiological and biological processes that identify this human organism as alive- it is to bring about the child's death.

You just jumped from organism to human child. We kill genetically human cells every time we bump into something.

It is therefore a scientific fact that when we speak of abortion, we speak of ending human life. As we are also humans, we are therefore dealing with a case of homicide- homicide is defined as the killing of a human being by another human being.

More jumping to conclusions.

If your position is defensible- if the ending of this life is a defensible ac- then you should be able to demonstrate why this is justifiable or acceptable without denying the facts of what it is you support. When pretend that we're not dealing with a living human being, you reveal that one or both of the following is true:
-You do not know what it is you advocate; you are guided purely by your emotion and your programming. You should shut your fucking mouth and not speak about things you do not understand

Seems like you are guided by emotion. (e.g. anger?)

-You know your position is indefensible; you must lie about what it is you advocate because you cannot honestly defend your position




*Yes, I know a foetus can die in utero without the woman's body expelling it [see: stone foetus] and that humans aren't the only species to experience pregnancy. Given the context, such things should go unsaid. Let us exercise a little critical thinking here.

My personal position lies somewhere in the middle of the two extreme positions but I am pretty sure I can defend it.

 

[Nosmo King]

Frankly, I don't give a fuck what the pro-lifers have to say.

I agree, when they start showing they care about the crawling and walking, I'll believe they are pro 'life'

None of you Pro Abortion types have provide a shred of evidence that Pro Choice people do not care about the crawling and walking. We however have ample proof you do not care one whit about human life as you agree snuffing it out in the womb is fine for no other reason then personal discomfort or whim.

You magnify the embryo to the status of a living human with rights and then trivialize the emotional toll paid by the woman opting out of an unwanted, unplanned pregnancy as 'discomfort' and a 'whim'.

This thread is titled Why can't the PRO-ABORTION Crowd be Honest? The very title suggests that reproductive freedom is Pro-Abortion. Reproductive freedom is Pro-Choice. The operative word being "Choice". And the title of the thread suggests precious little 'honesty' from the OP.

If you truly were seeking an honest debate, why did you couch the debate in such drastically dishonest terms?

 

[Seawytch]

The "pro-life" crowd has a cognitive disconnect that I just don't get. Not only are they usually folks that are pro death penalty , but beyond that they are also usually opposed to any kind of comprehensive sex education in schools.

The goals of the pro choice crowd are much easier to understand. Keep abortion safe, legal and RARE!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Now hold on there a sec. Having an abortion is not an easy thing to do. It is no picnic, I guarantee you. I dont have to defend myself when it comes to my body. Wanna call me a murderer? Go ahead. Ive called myself much worse when I had it done many many MANY years ago. Its nobodies business why I had it done and I answer to nobody on why I did it.

Say what you will. Unless you are a woman....you have no clue.

That is half the problem I have. Planned Parenthood keeps telling me there are no mental health problems associated with abortion, and that it is a routine medical procedure. Then people like you come along and tell me not only about the soul searching from before they made the decision, and how much they have agonized after it.

That tells me that I have to choose between Planned Parenthood lying and the fact that everyone I have ever met that has had an abortion has emotional problems. Either I live in a statistical blip or an organization that makes money off of abortions is lying to me. Guess where I come down.

You made a choice, and I was not there. You are completely right about that.I do not judge you for the choice you made, and I even support your right to make that choice. What I find objectionable is you telling me that, unless I am a woman, I cannot comprehend the subject. Guess what, me being male does not mean I have no empathy, no brains, and no imagination. I not only have a clue, I have absolute proof people are lying to me about everything involved.

Until the pro abortion side stops lying, and defending the lies by claiming I am unequipped to understand, I will not offer my support to them. This despite the fact that I personally think abortions should be an option for some women.

My only objection all along to abortion is that it is too easy. Abortion counseling should not be done by an organization that profits off of it. They cannot give unbiased advice, and I fully support defunding Planned Parenthood as long as they preform abortions. They have a conflict of interest, and, despite their rhetoric, offer abortions as a first choice in treating pregnancy. If they want my tax dollars they need to get out of the abortion business.

 

[JBeukema]

What IS in my control is MY BODY.

I already explained why that little slogan is bullshit.

If your position and acts are defensible, why can't you defend them?

 

[Si modo]

....

A blastocyst/foetus/etc is an organism. It is alive and it is genetically human.* These are verifiable, objective, demonstrable scientific facts. It is all a matter of basic biology.

....

Absolutely correct.

An appendix cell is also an organism. It's also alive and genetically human. Thus, we need to stop all appendectomies.

 

[JBeukema]

. You dont want answers.

You can't address the issue, so you pretend it was never raised?

You dont give a fuck, right? So why "dare" anyone to disagree with you and then jump their shit because you dont like what they say when they do answer?

You've answered nothing. All you've done is repeat a bullshit slogan like a mindless parrot after it's been shown to be fallacious.

As for 'daring people to disagree with me', you clearly don't even know what my position is or you wouldn't say something so stupid. UI have expressed my views in some detail in several threads.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I agree, when they start showing they care about the crawling and walking, I'll believe they are pro 'life'

None of you Pro Abortion types have provide a shred of evidence that Pro Choice people do not care about the crawling and walking. We however have ample proof you do not care one whit about human life as you agree snuffing it out in the womb is fine for no other reason then personal discomfort or whim.

It is the pro 'life' people who show no regard for the crawling and walking. I have yet to hear a single outcry from the right about the thousands of innocent Iraqis murdered by the war Bush started. What was their crime?

If you use a condom, or your partner uses an IUD or takes birth control pills, are your murderers?

Until you start whining about the Afghans, Pakistanis, and Libyans in Obama's wars you have no moral high gorund to call for others to whine about the war Bush started. That makes you a mental midget, a hypocrite, and morally bankrupt, all at the same time.

Congratulations.