Why can't Americans have a vacation?

[Unkotare]

How would you feel if YOUR vacation was taken away just because your employer could do that?

If it was that important to you, you'd go find another job.

 

[dominico]

I just had a three-week break, first long one in years, and I feel much better for it. Maybe long holidays do make better workers

 

[Unkotare]

Uh, it's called the FREE market.

if Joe's Pizza works his workers like slaves and doesn't give them time off/benefits, then odds are the workers will quit or go on strike.

What a concept.

if Joe can find workers that don't a day off, then he will hire them and fire the pissed off workers.

It's not called "free market" it's called "exploitation".

If I find out that Joe's Pizza treats their employees badly, then I'm not buying Joe's Pizza, and I'll tell all my friends about Joe and his exploitative ways.

Right, that's part of how the free market works.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Yes, I think as a whole Americans work longer hours and get less time off than most Europeans and that contributes to higher stress levels, and more health problems. But I'm personally not comfortable with federal vacation mandates.

What do you propose for those workers who get no time off, bearing in mind that these are generally the lowest income workers? Are you suggesting that they just suck it up?

How do you ensure fair treatment of workers without legislation? How would you feel if YOUR vacation was taken away just because your employer could do that?

Every country in the world mandates vacation time - every single one of them. The US is the ONLY first world nation where workers aren't entitled to take time off.

Get a better job. Problem solved.

And for the record, I've NEVER had a full-time job that didn't provide at least 2 weeks vacation....

 

[GoneBezerk]

Liberals believe they have the right to tell private businesses what extra benefits they need to provide a worker. It's not enough to make sure the business doesn't employ children, doesn't underpay the workers and doesn't violate overtime work rules....now businesses must provide their workers healthcare benefits, more days off, etc.....what about backrubs, a nicer car, etc????

Liberals believe someone with no education and no skills should have the upper hand against their employer because that employer should be grateful that person showed up for work in their business. The owner of that business created that business so that the worker can have a place to be for 8 hours that day...not that the owner created the business to actually earn a profit for their investment.

 

[Dragonlady]

Liberals believe someone with no education and no skills should have the upper hand against their employer because that employer should be grateful that person showed up for work in their business. The owner of that business created that business so that the worker can have a place to be for 8 hours that day...not that the owner created the business to actually earn a profit for their investment.

Why do Republicans think that all workers should be grateful to have a job? Employers should be equally grateful to have workers because without them, they don't have much.

Joe didn't make the business so workers would have something to do all day. He made the business so HE could make money. But Joe can't make more money without employees. There is only so much one person can do by themselves. Yes, the workers need jobs, but Joe needs those workers just as much as they need the job.

How much money is Joe going to make if he does all of the work himself? Probably not a huge amount. If Joe hires people to assist him in the store, he can make more pizzas, be open longer hours, and make more money. He can start delivering pizza instead of having people come to him and grow his business and make MORE MONEY.

Yes, the workers benefit from having jobs, but Joe benefits more from having employees. That's because Joe risked his own money, and deserves a decent return on his investment. But his employees also deserve some of the credit for Joe's success. If they hadn't worked hard, he'd still be doing all of the work in a one-man operation.

The employer/employee relationship is a mutually beneficial relationship. Both sides benefit. Both parties need the other, but all of the power rests with the employer and not all employers are smart people. Many of them, like you, think workers should be grateful for the job they've been given.

If Joe isn't smart enough to see this and to treat his employees well, then there should be a mandate which provides workers with bare minimum necessities and yes a vacation is a necessity.

 

[boedicca]

Liberals believe they have the right to tell private businesses what extra benefits they need to provide a worker. It's not enough to make sure the business doesn't employ children, doesn't underpay the workers and doesn't violate overtime work rules....now businesses must provide their workers healthcare benefits, more days off, etc.....what about backrubs, a nicer car, etc????

Liberals believe someone with no education and no skills should have the upper hand against their employer because that employer should be grateful that person showed up for work in their business. The owner of that business created that business so that the worker can have a place to be for 8 hours that day...not that the owner created the business to actually earn a profit for their investment.

The marginal returns on liberal meddling have turned negative. Very worthwhile things such as getting rid of child labor etc. have already been accomplished, so now they keep defining poverty upward. That's why the Poor in America are now Obese.

 

[boedicca]

Liberals believe someone with no education and no skills should have the upper hand against their employer because that employer should be grateful that person showed up for work in their business. The owner of that business created that business so that the worker can have a place to be for 8 hours that day...not that the owner created the business to actually earn a profit for their investment.

Why do Republicans think that all workers should be grateful to have a job? Employers should be equally grateful to have workers because without them, they don't have much.

Joe didn't make the business so workers would have something to do all day. He made the business so HE could make money. But Joe can't make more money without employees. There is only so much one person can do by themselves. Yes, the workers need jobs, but Joe needs those workers just as much as they need the job.

How much money is Joe going to make if he does all of the work himself? Probably not a huge amount. If Joe hires people to assist him in the store, he can make more pizzas, be open longer hours, and make more money. He can start delivering pizza instead of having people come to him and grow his business and make MORE MONEY.

Yes, the workers benefit from having jobs, but Joe benefits more from having employees. That's because Joe risked his own money, and deserves a decent return on his investment. But his employees also deserve some of the credit for Joe's success. If they hadn't worked hard, he'd still be doing all of the work in a one-man operation.

The employer/employee relationship is a mutually beneficial relationship. Both sides benefit. Both parties need the other, but all of the power rests with the employer and not all employers are smart people. Many of them, like you, think workers should be grateful for the job they've been given.

If Joe isn't smart enough to see this and to treat his employees well, then there should be a mandate which provides workers with bare minimum necessities and yes a vacation is a necessity.

What a load of crap.

The free market, as noted above, will take care of Joe. Don't like his policies? Don't work for him and don't buy his products. It's simple.

But morons like you have no courage to take a stand on your own. You need a big (unwilling) crowd to act as your body shield.

 

[Freemason9]

We just cashed out a couple of weeks. I went shopping.

On a serious note, when my husband was with this one company in Ontario, the head honchos over in Germany were always on vacation. Rog had to contact everyone at their vacation destinies just to keep the Canadian plant going.

It was wild. It was like "does anyone work over there"?

And yet, Germany does almost as good as the USA in every aspect. Shows how meaningles is the American anti-vacation mentality.

Uh, you haven't proven that Americans have an anti-vacation mentality, bub.

Americans are actually wage slaves. You should remember that slavery was actually LEGAL in this country not so long ago, and the American media (controlled by corporate ownership) never discusses the topic of labor.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And yet, Germany does almost as good as the USA in every aspect. Shows how meaningles is the American anti-vacation mentality.

Uh, you haven't proven that Americans have an anti-vacation mentality, bub.

Americans are actually wage slaves. You should remember that slavery was actually LEGAL in this country not so long ago, and the American media (controlled by corporate ownership) never discusses the topic of labor.

People choose to sell their labor for money.

Comparing that to slavery is ludicrous.

 

[Mr Natural]

And yet, Germany does almost as good as the USA in every aspect. Shows how meaningles is the American anti-vacation mentality.

Uh, you haven't proven that Americans have an anti-vacation mentality, bub.

Americans are actually wage slaves. You should remember that slavery was actually LEGAL in this country not so long ago, and the American media (controlled by corporate ownership) never discusses the topic of labor.

The right to work states, which are mostly in the South, are an extension of slavery. If you can't get your labor for free, the next best thing is cheap.

 

[boedicca]

Uh, you haven't proven that Americans have an anti-vacation mentality, bub.

Americans are actually wage slaves. You should remember that slavery was actually LEGAL in this country not so long ago, and the American media (controlled by corporate ownership) never discusses the topic of labor.

People choose to sell their labor for money.

Comparing that to slavery is ludicrous.

It's disgusting and demeaning to actual slaves to equate them with people being voluntarily employed. Slaves are owned and have no rights, which should not be trivialized to support class warfare nonsense.

Really. Some people need to check their moral compass.

 

[Freemason9]

Uh, you haven't proven that Americans have an anti-vacation mentality, bub.

Americans are actually wage slaves. You should remember that slavery was actually LEGAL in this country not so long ago, and the American media (controlled by corporate ownership) never discusses the topic of labor.

People choose to sell their labor for money.

Comparing that to slavery is ludicrous.

No, it's functionally the same, since the U.S. has no national health care system or housing. If you're broke, you can die of exposure, sickness, and starvation in the U.S. You have to take any job you can, under whatever "benefits" the employer sees fit to offer. With a high unemployment rate, workers are unable to bid up wages and benefits.

So functionally, human slavery has been replaced with wage slavery. It is very nearly the same outcome.

 

[Freemason9]

Americans are actually wage slaves. You should remember that slavery was actually LEGAL in this country not so long ago, and the American media (controlled by corporate ownership) never discusses the topic of labor.

People choose to sell their labor for money.

Comparing that to slavery is ludicrous.

It's disgusting and demeaning to actual slaves to equate them with people being voluntarily employed. Slaves are owned and have no rights, which should not be trivialized to support class warfare nonsense.

Really. Some people need to check their moral compass.

American employees are basically owned and have no rights, so I don't actually get your point.

 

[boedicca]

Americans are actually wage slaves. You should remember that slavery was actually LEGAL in this country not so long ago, and the American media (controlled by corporate ownership) never discusses the topic of labor.

People choose to sell their labor for money.

Comparing that to slavery is ludicrous.

No, it's functionally the same, since the U.S. has no national health care system or housing. If you're broke, you can die of exposure, sickness, and starvation in the U.S. You have to take any job you can, under whatever "benefits" the employer sees fit to offer. With a high unemployment rate, workers are unable to bid up wages and benefits.

So functionally, human slavery has been replaced with wage slavery. It is very nearly the same outcome.

You are revolting. Try reading about the life conditions of real slaves.

 

[boedicca]

People choose to sell their labor for money.

Comparing that to slavery is ludicrous.

It's disgusting and demeaning to actual slaves to equate them with people being voluntarily employed. Slaves are owned and have no rights, which should not be trivialized to support class warfare nonsense.

Really. Some people need to check their moral compass.

American employees are basically owned and have no rights, so I don't actually get your point.

You're owned, but not in the sense you claim.

 

[Dragonlady]

It's disgusting and demeaning to actual slaves to equate them with people being voluntarily employed. Slaves are owned and have no rights, which should not be trivialized to support class warfare nonsense.

Really. Some people need to check their moral compass.

No, it's a very apt analogy. Many people are slaves to their health care. They stay in jobs they hate, that don't pay well because one or more members of their families has a pre-existing condition. I know people in this situation.

If you don't make enough money to provide the basic necessities of life - food, shelter, clothing and medical care for your family. You are a wage slave with no bargaining power, and in the US, with its weak and toothless labour laws, and 11 million illigal immigrants ready to take whatever they can get, the low wage workers have never had so little bargaining power.

This is where government must step in to protect workers from such abuses.

 

[boedicca]

It's disgusting and demeaning to actual slaves to equate them with people being voluntarily employed. Slaves are owned and have no rights, which should not be trivialized to support class warfare nonsense.

Really. Some people need to check their moral compass.

No, it's a very apt analogy. Many people are slaves to their health care. They stay in jobs they hate, that don't pay well because one or more members of their families has a pre-existing condition. I know people in this situation.

If you don't make enough money to provide the basic necessities of life - food, shelter, clothing and medical care for your family. You are a wage slave with no bargaining power, and in the US, with its weak and toothless labour laws, and 11 million illigal immigrants ready to take whatever they can get, the low wage workers have never had so little bargaining power.

This is where government must step in to protect workers from such abuses.

Then what they have are attitude problems. They aren't happy with what they earn and are slaves to their emotions instead of doing something affirmative to improve their situations.

Boo hoo.

 

[Freemason9]

It's disgusting and demeaning to actual slaves to equate them with people being voluntarily employed. Slaves are owned and have no rights, which should not be trivialized to support class warfare nonsense.

Really. Some people need to check their moral compass.

No, it's a very apt analogy. Many people are slaves to their health care. They stay in jobs they hate, that don't pay well because one or more members of their families has a pre-existing condition. I know people in this situation.

If you don't make enough money to provide the basic necessities of life - food, shelter, clothing and medical care for your family. You are a wage slave with no bargaining power, and in the US, with its weak and toothless labour laws, and 11 million illigal immigrants ready to take whatever they can get, the low wage workers have never had so little bargaining power.

This is where government must step in to protect workers from such abuses.

Then what they have are attitude problems. They aren't happy with what they earn and are slaves to their emotions instead of doing something affirmative to improve their situations.

Boo hoo.

Then this probably doesn't apply to you, Boe, and you are one of the fortunate few. Most Americans have few choices in their lives--they take whatever they can scramble around and get, and since the ONLY way they can afford healthcare is through employment, that's how they get it. You are apparently lucky, and also you clearly can't relate to it at all.

I've often thought that the real problem the Right Wing has with national health care is that they do not want American workers to have that kind of freedom of employment. Workers might actually quit their jobs and look for better ones if they don't have to worry about insurance coverage. American owners have used health care insurance as a "whip" against their work force (wage slaves) for a very long time.

 

[boedicca]

No, it's a very apt analogy. Many people are slaves to their health care. They stay in jobs they hate, that don't pay well because one or more members of their families has a pre-existing condition. I know people in this situation.

If you don't make enough money to provide the basic necessities of life - food, shelter, clothing and medical care for your family. You are a wage slave with no bargaining power, and in the US, with its weak and toothless labour laws, and 11 million illigal immigrants ready to take whatever they can get, the low wage workers have never had so little bargaining power.

This is where government must step in to protect workers from such abuses.

Then what they have are attitude problems. They aren't happy with what they earn and are slaves to their emotions instead of doing something affirmative to improve their situations.

Boo hoo.

Then this probably doesn't apply to you, Boe, and you are one of the fortunate few. Most Americans have few choices in their lives--they take whatever they can scramble around and get, and since the ONLY way they can afford healthcare is through employment, that's how they get it. You are apparently lucky, and also you clearly can't relate to it at all.

I've often thought that the real problem the Right Wing has with national health care is that they do not want American workers to have that kind of freedom of employment. Workers might actually quit their jobs and look for better ones if they don't have to worry about insurance coverage. American owners have used health care insurance as a "whip" against their work force (wage slaves) for a very long time.

Perhaps if we didn't have a tax and regulatory system which both drives up the cost of health care and makes it tied to employment, more people could afford to purchase what they need. If you want to identify who is to blame for this, look back to FDR's wage controls.

People in America, even the poor, live far better than the vast amount of humans who have ever lived - most of whom were real slaves or serfs, living in squalor. I think you are a victim of "relative poverty thinking". Yes, there are certainly people who are richer than you (money does give one more freedom of choice), but their comparative well-offness doesn't make you a slave.