Who's Afraid of Socialism?

[bripat9643]

Fat commies, skinny commies, as long as they're dead commies.

Are you gonna cry when he gets ousted? Losing sleep already?

Not at all.
What will happen is the US will install its right wing government. They will continue to loot the country, that won't change. The capitalists who can afford to eat now will continue to eat. The poor and hungry people will continue to be poor and hungry. Western media will go away and pretend like all is better.

Pretty much exactly as happened in Honduras after the US installed that right wing government.

They [the opposition] will continue to loot the country? How are they in any position to loot the country? Chavez and Maduro are the ones who looted the country. Chaves' daughter ran off with $4 billion of the people's money. Formerly everyone could afford to eat, not just the rich. Now everyone but those who are politically connected is poor and hungry. You pretend as if the people of Venezuela aren't 1000% worse off.

You can't defend this regime without blatant lying.

And the only knowledge you have of the situation comes from Western sources. Bear that in mind.

So the videos on youTube showing thousands of emaciated people waiting in line for food are Western propaganda?

I haven't seen those videos.

starving people in Venezuela at DuckDuckGo

 

[georgephillip]

Venezuela 2017/2018

"Venezuela remained in a state of emergency, repeatedly extended since January 2016.

"A National Constituent Assembly was elected without the participation of the opposition.

"The Attorney General was dismissed under irregular circumstances.

"Security forces continued to use excessive and undue force to disperse protests. Hundreds of people were arbitrarily detained.

"There were many reports of torture and other ill-treatment, including sexual violence against demonstrators.

"The judicial system continued to be used to silence dissidents, including using military jurisdiction to prosecute civilians.

"Human rights defenders were harassed, intimidated and subject to raids. Conditions of detention were extremely harsh.

"The food and health crises continued to worsen, especially affecting children, people with chronic illness and pregnant women.

"The number of Venezuelans seeking asylum in other countries increased."

Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017

Capitalism to the rescue.

You're blaming capitalism for all this?

You're blaming capitalism for all this?

Yes.
Capitalists control the world's reserve currencies.
Capitalists control the IMF and World Bank.
And capitalists control this
Treasury sanctions Venezuela state-owned oil firm in bid to transfer control to Maduro opposition

Why do you suppose capitalists aren't sanctioning this mad dog?

What about all those socialist paradises in Europe? Why can't the Venezuelan oil monopoly just borrow money from them? Come to think of it, since socialism is so superior, why does Venezuela even need any capitalist countries?

It's hilarious the way socialists always blame capitalist countries for not doing business with them when they fail.

What about all those socialist paradises in Europe? Why can't the Venezuelan oil monopoly just borrow money from them? Come to think of it, since socialism is so superior, why does Venezuela even need any capitalist countries?

Because US sanctions prevent Venezuela from borrowing on global markets. When capitalism no longer controls stock and bond markets and global financial units like the IMF and World Bank, only then will socialism have a fair opportunity to challenge the status quo.

Stock and bond markets are capitalist creations. I'm not aware that US sanctions against certain corrupt politicians prevents German banks from loaning them money. furthermore, why should it matter? Since socialism is so superior, why can't Venezuela borrow from other socialist Utopias? Why are they dependent on capitalist institutions? Why should Venezuela even need to borrow money? All they have to do is poke a hole in the ground, and money comes gushing out.

Read more US History:

United States–Venezuela relations - Wikipedia

"The Venezuela Crisis of 1902–03 saw a naval blockade of several months imposed against Venezuela by Britain, Germany and Italy because of President Cipriano Castro's refusal to pay foreign debts and damages suffered by European citizens in a recent Venezuelan civil war.

"Castro assumed that the United States' Monroe Doctrine would see that the U.S. prevent European military intervention, but at the time the U.S. saw the Doctrine as concerning European seizure of territory, rather than intervention per se.

"Though U.S. Secretary of State, Elihu Root, characterized Castro as a 'crazy brute' or a 'monkey', President Theodore Roosevelt was concerned with the prospects of penetration into the region by Germany.

"With Castro failing to back down under U.S. pressure and increasingly negative British and American press reactions to the affair, the blockading nations agreed to a compromise, but maintained the blockade during negotiations over the details.

"This incident was a major driver of the Roosevelt Corollary and the subsequent U.S. Big Stick policy and Dollar Diplomacy in Latin America."

 

[dblack]

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value?

It's unappealing because it squashes individual freedom. It denies the subjective nature of utility and personal preference.

I hesitate to engage you on this, because you usually play dodge 'em rather than directly defending your views, but let me ask you this. How is your conception of value "enforced"? If someone wants to trade something with someone else for a price that doesn't match your "intrinsic value" calculation, what happens? Are they arrested? Fined? What?

Even more important, how do the pricing authorities even determine a price? What is the "value" of a ton of coal? How would they even guess without having market prices to look at?

Can you imagine a market that doesn't distribute goods and services on the basis of ability to pay?

I can imagine an institution that does that. But I'd be hard press to call it a "market".

 

[dblack]

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value?

It's unappealing because it squashes individual freedom. It denies the subjective nature of utility and personal preference.

I hesitate to engage you on this, because you usually play dodge 'em rather than directly defending your views, but let me ask you this. How is your conception of value "enforced"? If someone wants to trade something with someone else for a price that doesn't match your "intrinsic value" calculation, what happens? Are they arrested? Fined? What?

Even more important, how do the pricing authorities even determine a price? What is the "value" of a ton of coal? How would they even guess without having market prices to look at?

It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma,

 

[georgephillip]

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value?

It's unappealing because it squashes individual freedom. It denies the subjective nature of utility and personal preference.

I hesitate to engage you on this, because you usually play dodge 'em rather than directly defending your views, but let me ask you this. How is your conception of value "enforced"? If someone wants to trade something with someone else for a price that doesn't match your "intrinsic value" calculation, what happens? Are they arrested? Fined? What?

Even more important, how do the pricing authorities even determine a price? What is the "value" of a ton of coal? How would they even guess without having market prices to look at?

Can you imagine a market that doesn't distribute goods and services on the basis of ability to pay?

I can imagine an institution that does that. But I'd be hard press to call it a "market".

I can imagine an institution that does that. I'd be hard press to call it a "market".

When the US economy functioned during WWII, need rather than profit drove most transactions; did that arrangement qualify as a "market"?

 

[dblack]

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value?

It's unappealing because it squashes individual freedom. It denies the subjective nature of utility and personal preference.

I hesitate to engage you on this, because you usually play dodge 'em rather than directly defending your views, but let me ask you this. How is your conception of value "enforced"? If someone wants to trade something with someone else for a price that doesn't match your "intrinsic value" calculation, what happens? Are they arrested? Fined? What?

Even more important, how do the pricing authorities even determine a price? What is the "value" of a ton of coal? How would they even guess without having market prices to look at?

Can you imagine a market that doesn't distribute goods and services on the basis of ability to pay?

I can imagine an institution that does that. But I'd be hard press to call it a "market".

I can imagine an institution that does that. I'd be hard press to call it a "market".

When the US economy functioned during WWII, need rather than profit drove most transactions; did that arrangement qualify as a "market"?

See, here's where you actually need some kind of citation, and you fail to provide one. While some transactions were taken "off market" and controlled by government, I think you're simply bullshitting when you say "most", or even a significant percentage.

FWIW, the transactions controlled by government would not constitute a market in my view. I have zero interest in fighting over word definitions, but all the equivocation is tiresome.

 

[Tehon]

Not at all.
What will happen is the US will install its right wing government. They will continue to loot the country, that won't change. The capitalists who can afford to eat now will continue to eat. The poor and hungry people will continue to be poor and hungry. Western media will go away and pretend like all is better.

Pretty much exactly as happened in Honduras after the US installed that right wing government.

They [the opposition] will continue to loot the country? How are they in any position to loot the country? Chavez and Maduro are the ones who looted the country. Chaves' daughter ran off with $4 billion of the people's money. Formerly everyone could afford to eat, not just the rich. Now everyone but those who are politically connected is poor and hungry. You pretend as if the people of Venezuela aren't 1000% worse off.

You can't defend this regime without blatant lying.

And the only knowledge you have of the situation comes from Western sources. Bear that in mind.

So the videos on youTube showing thousands of emaciated people waiting in line for food are Western propaganda?

I haven't seen those videos.

starving people in Venezuela at DuckDuckGo

 

[francoHFW]

It

Hardly are they thriving, and hardly are they a one product country like Venezuela... And of course they are not being sanctioned and ruined by the United States. And of course their scumbag Venezuelan oligarchs...

What stopped Venezuela from developing other industries? Can't those bureaucrats plan for the future? Why is having huge oil revenues a liability?

None of your excuses make the slightest bit of sense. Anyway you look at it, Venezuela is a disaster.

They've only had socialist leadership since Hugo Chavez in 2005 or something. Before that they were USA banana Republic with totally corrupt oligarchs and charge. Chavez cut poverty by 75% and a literacy by 90% and gave them Healthcare. You have no idea what you're talking about of course. Google US sanctions against Venezuela socialists. The GOP should get there corrupt covert garbage out of other countries. The GOP always screws up other countries and our own economy. Of course you know nothing about that, super dupe.

How did he cut poverty if everyone is starving? in 1960 they had the 4th highest GDP per capita in the entire world. So far, the only sanctions I'm aware of is the one Trump just imposed. Obama certainly didn't put any sanctions on them? He loves those fucking commies. You pathetic bleating about how Venezuela has been so abused just doesn't wash. I fail to see any basis for blaming the GOP. Name one thing the GOP has done to damage Venezuela. One thing.

Here's one of your links:

DSA Calls for Ending Sanctions Against Venezuela - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

In 2014, the U.S. Congress, led by Sen. Robert Menendez (D-NJ), passed a sanctions bill that targeted Venezuelan officials by threatening to deny them visas and to seize their assets.
​

That doesn't seem like much a threat to the Venezuelan economy. It might prevent the scumbag bureaucrats from traveling to the US, but that's about it. If they have significant assets in the US, that would indicate to me that they are corrupt. Keep in mind that it only "threatened" to seize their assets. As far as I know, no assets have been seized.

No they had the 4th economy in 1950, what most countries were in ruins.

Hardly are they thriving, and hardly are they a one product country like Venezuela... And of course they are not being sanctioned and ruined by the United States. And of course their scumbag Venezuelan oligarchs...

What stopped Venezuela from developing other industries? Can't those bureaucrats plan for the future? Why is having huge oil revenues a liability?

None of your excuses make the slightest bit of sense. Anyway you look at it, Venezuela is a disaster.

They've only had socialist leadership since Hugo Chavez in 2005 or something. Before that they were USA banana Republic with totally corrupt oligarchs and charge. Chavez cut poverty by 75% and a literacy by 90% and gave them Healthcare. You have no idea what you're talking about of course. Google US sanctions against Venezuela socialists. The GOP should get there corrupt covert garbage out of other countries. The GOP always screws up other countries and our own economy. Of course you know nothing about that, super dupe.

How did he cut poverty if everyone is starving? in 1960 they had the 4th highest GDP per capita in the entire world. So far, the only sanctions I'm aware of is the one Trump just imposed. Obama certainly didn't put any sanctions on them? He loves those fucking commies. You pathetic bleating about how Venezuela has been so abused just doesn't wash. I fail to see any basis for blaming the GOP. Name one thing the GOP has done to damage Venezuela. One thing.

Here's one of your links:

DSA Calls for Ending Sanctions Against Venezuela - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

In 2014, the U.S. Congress, led by Sen. Robert Menendez (D-NJ), passed a sanctions bill that targeted Venezuelan officials by threatening to deny them visas and to seize their assets.
​

That doesn't seem like much a threat to the Venezuelan economy. It might prevent the scumbag bureaucrats from traveling to the US, but that's about it. If they have significant assets in the US, that would indicate to me that they are corrupt. Keep in mind that it only "threatened" to seize their assets. As far as I know, no assets have been seized.

www.crs.gov | 7-5700
Updated November 21, 2018
Venezuela: Overview of U.S. Sanctions
For more than a decade, the United States has employed
sanctions as a policy tool in response to activities of the
Venezuelan government or Venezuelan individuals. These
have included sanctions, including targeted sanctions
against almost 90 individuals, related to terrorism, drug
trafficking, trafficking in persons, antidemocratic actions,
human rights violations, and corruption.
Terrorism-Related Sanctions
Since 2006, U.S. officials have expressed concerns about
Venezuela’s lack of cooperation on anti-terrorism efforts.
Since then, the Secretary of State has made an annual
determination that Venezuela is not “cooperating fully with
United States anti-terrorism efforts” pursuant to Section
40A of the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2781). The
most recent determination was made in May 2018. As a
result, the United States has prohibited all U.S. commercial
arms sales and retransfers to Venezuela since 2006.
In 2008, the Treasury Department imposed sanctions (asset
freezing and prohibitions on transactions) on two
individuals and two travel agencies in Venezuela for
providing financial support to the radical Lebanon-based
Islamic Shiite group Hezbollah. The action was taken
pursuant to Executive Order (E.O.) 13224, aimed at
impeding terrorist funding.
Drug Trafficking-Related Sanctions
U.S. concerns about the lack of Venezuelan cooperation on
counternarcotics efforts date back to 2005, when Venezuela
suspended cooperation with the U.S. Drug Enforcement
Administration. Since 2005, the President has made an
annual determination, pursuant to procedures set forth in
the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, FY2003 (P.L.
107-228, §706; 22 U.S.C. 2291j), that Venezuela has failed
demonstrably to adhere to its obligations under
international narcotics agreements. President Trump made
the most recent determination for FY2019 in September
2018, when he also waived foreign assistance restrictions
for programs to support the promotion of democracy in
Venezuela.
The Treasury Department has imposed economic sanctions
on at least 22 individuals with connections to Venezuela
and 27 companies by designating them as Specially
Designated Narcotics Traffickers pursuant to the Foreign
Narcotics Kingpin Designation Act (Kingpin Act; P.L. 106-
120, Title VIII; 21 U.S.C. 1901 et seq.).
Designated individuals include several current or former
Venezuelan officials: in 2008, General Hugo Carvajal
(former military intelligence head), General Henry Rangel
Silva (former defense minister and governor of Trujillo
State), and Ramón Rodríguez Chacín (former interior
minister and former governor of Guárico); in 2011, Freddy
Alirio Bernal Rosales and Amilicar Jesus Figueroa Salazar
(United Socialist Party of Venezuela, or PSUV, politicians),
Major General Cliver Antonio Alcalá Cordones, and
Ramon Isidro Madriz Moreno (a Venezuelan intelligence
officer); in 2017, then-Vice President Tareck el Aissami;
and in May 2018, Pedro Luis Martin (a former senior
intelligence official) and two of his associates. Others
designated include drug trafficker Walid Makled, three dual
Lebanese-Venezuelan citizens allegedly involved in a drug
money-laundering network, and several Colombian drug
traffickers with activity in Venezuela.
Trafficking in Persons Sanctions
Since 2014, Venezuela has been on the State Department’s
Tier 3 list in its annual Trafficking in Persons Report. Tier 3
countries are those whose governments do not fully comply
with the minimum standards of the Trafficking Victims
Protection Act (P.L. 106-386, Division A, 22 U.S.C. 7101
et seq.) and are not making significant efforts to do so. Tier
3 countries are subject to a variety of U.S. aid restrictions,
although the President may waive prohibitions for national
interest reasons. In September 2017, President Trump
waived sanctions for health and democracy-related
assistance to Venezuela.
Targeted Sanctions Related to Antidemocratic
Actions, Human Rights Violations, and Corruption
In response to increasing repression in Venezuela, Congress
enacted the Venezuela Defense of Human Rights and Civil
Society Act of 2014 (P.L. 113-278; 50 U.S.C. 1701 note) in
December 2014. Among its provisions, the law requires the
President to impose sanctions (asset blocking and visa
restrictions) against those whom the President determines
are responsible for significant acts of violence or serious
human rights abuses associated with February 2014 protests
or, more broadly, against anyone who has directed or
ordered the arrest or prosecution of a person primarily
because of the person’s legitimate exercise of freedom of
expression or assembly. In July 2016, Congress extended
the 2014 act through 2019 in P.L. 114-194.
In March 2015, President Obama issued E.O. 13692 to
implement P.L. 113-278, and Treasury Department
regulations were issued in July 2015 (31 C.F.R. Part 591).
The E.O. targets (for asset blocking and visa restrictions)
those involved in actions or policies undermining
democratic processes or institutions; those involved in acts
of violence or conduct constituting a serious human rights
abuse; those taking actions that prohibit, limit, or penalize
the exercise of freedom of expression or peaceful assembly;
public corruption by senior Venezuelan officials; and any
person determined to be a current or former leader of any
entity engaged in any activity described above or a current
or former official of the government of Venezuela.


and they just made it impossible for Venezuela to sell oil to the United States, 40% of their market, and with many other countries... Screw Venezuelan oligarchs and American oligarchs... All scumbags.

Blocking visas for selected scumbag bureaucrats, restricting arms sales and "blocking" the assets of selected officials.

<YAWN!>

And today banning there oil in the United States and using American banking systems... We've absolutely screwed them, dumbass.

 

[georgephillip]

They [the opposition] will continue to loot the country? How are they in any position to loot the country? Chavez and Maduro are the ones who looted the country. Chaves' daughter ran off with $4 billion of the people's money. Formerly everyone could afford to eat, not just the rich. Now everyone but those who are politically connected is poor and hungry. You pretend as if the people of Venezuela aren't 1000% worse off.

You can't defend this regime without blatant lying.

And the only knowledge you have of the situation comes from Western sources. Bear that in mind.

So the videos on youTube showing thousands of emaciated people waiting in line for food are Western propaganda?

I haven't seen those videos.

starving people in Venezuela at DuckDuckGo

Around the nine minute mark in your video, Abby's hidden camera reveals fully stocked supermarkets in five different locations around Venezuela. Also mentioned is the claim there's no shortage of food in upscale restaurants for affluent Venezuelans. Maybe Bolton, Pence, and Rubio should follow in Abby Martin's footsteps before launching another coup attempt?

 

[Tehon]

And the only knowledge you have of the situation comes from Western sources. Bear that in mind.

So the videos on youTube showing thousands of emaciated people waiting in line for food are Western propaganda?

I haven't seen those videos.

starving people in Venezuela at DuckDuckGo

Around the nine minute mark in your video, Abby's hidden camera reveals fully stocked supermarkets in five different locations around Venezuela. Also mentioned is the claim there's no shortage of food in upscale restaurants for affluent Venezuelans. Maybe Bolton, Pence, and Rubio should follow in Abby Martin's footsteps before launching another coup attempt?

Maybe the corporate media should cease promoting fake news that is agenda driven. Maybe the right wing cucks like bripat should recognize it for what it is. Maybe he would if he didn't have the same agenda. Maybe the Democrats would stand up to the administration if they didn't also have the same agenda. I could probably go on....

 

[bripat9643]

It

What stopped Venezuela from developing other industries? Can't those bureaucrats plan for the future? Why is having huge oil revenues a liability?

None of your excuses make the slightest bit of sense. Anyway you look at it, Venezuela is a disaster.

They've only had socialist leadership since Hugo Chavez in 2005 or something. Before that they were USA banana Republic with totally corrupt oligarchs and charge. Chavez cut poverty by 75% and a literacy by 90% and gave them Healthcare. You have no idea what you're talking about of course. Google US sanctions against Venezuela socialists. The GOP should get there corrupt covert garbage out of other countries. The GOP always screws up other countries and our own economy. Of course you know nothing about that, super dupe.

How did he cut poverty if everyone is starving? in 1960 they had the 4th highest GDP per capita in the entire world. So far, the only sanctions I'm aware of is the one Trump just imposed. Obama certainly didn't put any sanctions on them? He loves those fucking commies. You pathetic bleating about how Venezuela has been so abused just doesn't wash. I fail to see any basis for blaming the GOP. Name one thing the GOP has done to damage Venezuela. One thing.

Here's one of your links:

DSA Calls for Ending Sanctions Against Venezuela - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

In 2014, the U.S. Congress, led by Sen. Robert Menendez (D-NJ), passed a sanctions bill that targeted Venezuelan officials by threatening to deny them visas and to seize their assets.
​

That doesn't seem like much a threat to the Venezuelan economy. It might prevent the scumbag bureaucrats from traveling to the US, but that's about it. If they have significant assets in the US, that would indicate to me that they are corrupt. Keep in mind that it only "threatened" to seize their assets. As far as I know, no assets have been seized.

No they had the 4th economy in 1950, what most countries were in ruins.

What stopped Venezuela from developing other industries? Can't those bureaucrats plan for the future? Why is having huge oil revenues a liability?

None of your excuses make the slightest bit of sense. Anyway you look at it, Venezuela is a disaster.

They've only had socialist leadership since Hugo Chavez in 2005 or something. Before that they were USA banana Republic with totally corrupt oligarchs and charge. Chavez cut poverty by 75% and a literacy by 90% and gave them Healthcare. You have no idea what you're talking about of course. Google US sanctions against Venezuela socialists. The GOP should get there corrupt covert garbage out of other countries. The GOP always screws up other countries and our own economy. Of course you know nothing about that, super dupe.

How did he cut poverty if everyone is starving? in 1960 they had the 4th highest GDP per capita in the entire world. So far, the only sanctions I'm aware of is the one Trump just imposed. Obama certainly didn't put any sanctions on them? He loves those fucking commies. You pathetic bleating about how Venezuela has been so abused just doesn't wash. I fail to see any basis for blaming the GOP. Name one thing the GOP has done to damage Venezuela. One thing.

Here's one of your links:

DSA Calls for Ending Sanctions Against Venezuela - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

In 2014, the U.S. Congress, led by Sen. Robert Menendez (D-NJ), passed a sanctions bill that targeted Venezuelan officials by threatening to deny them visas and to seize their assets.
​

That doesn't seem like much a threat to the Venezuelan economy. It might prevent the scumbag bureaucrats from traveling to the US, but that's about it. If they have significant assets in the US, that would indicate to me that they are corrupt. Keep in mind that it only "threatened" to seize their assets. As far as I know, no assets have been seized.

www.crs.gov | 7-5700
Updated November 21, 2018
Venezuela: Overview of U.S. Sanctions
For more than a decade, the United States has employed
sanctions as a policy tool in response to activities of the
Venezuelan government or Venezuelan individuals. These
have included sanctions, including targeted sanctions
against almost 90 individuals, related to terrorism, drug
trafficking, trafficking in persons, antidemocratic actions,
human rights violations, and corruption.
Terrorism-Related Sanctions
Since 2006, U.S. officials have expressed concerns about
Venezuela’s lack of cooperation on anti-terrorism efforts.
Since then, the Secretary of State has made an annual
determination that Venezuela is not “cooperating fully with
United States anti-terrorism efforts” pursuant to Section
40A of the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2781). The
most recent determination was made in May 2018. As a
result, the United States has prohibited all U.S. commercial
arms sales and retransfers to Venezuela since 2006.
In 2008, the Treasury Department imposed sanctions (asset
freezing and prohibitions on transactions) on two
individuals and two travel agencies in Venezuela for
providing financial support to the radical Lebanon-based
Islamic Shiite group Hezbollah. The action was taken
pursuant to Executive Order (E.O.) 13224, aimed at
impeding terrorist funding.
Drug Trafficking-Related Sanctions
U.S. concerns about the lack of Venezuelan cooperation on
counternarcotics efforts date back to 2005, when Venezuela
suspended cooperation with the U.S. Drug Enforcement
Administration. Since 2005, the President has made an
annual determination, pursuant to procedures set forth in
the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, FY2003 (P.L.
107-228, §706; 22 U.S.C. 2291j), that Venezuela has failed
demonstrably to adhere to its obligations under
international narcotics agreements. President Trump made
the most recent determination for FY2019 in September
2018, when he also waived foreign assistance restrictions
for programs to support the promotion of democracy in
Venezuela.
The Treasury Department has imposed economic sanctions
on at least 22 individuals with connections to Venezuela
and 27 companies by designating them as Specially
Designated Narcotics Traffickers pursuant to the Foreign
Narcotics Kingpin Designation Act (Kingpin Act; P.L. 106-
120, Title VIII; 21 U.S.C. 1901 et seq.).
Designated individuals include several current or former
Venezuelan officials: in 2008, General Hugo Carvajal
(former military intelligence head), General Henry Rangel
Silva (former defense minister and governor of Trujillo
State), and Ramón Rodríguez Chacín (former interior
minister and former governor of Guárico); in 2011, Freddy
Alirio Bernal Rosales and Amilicar Jesus Figueroa Salazar
(United Socialist Party of Venezuela, or PSUV, politicians),
Major General Cliver Antonio Alcalá Cordones, and
Ramon Isidro Madriz Moreno (a Venezuelan intelligence
officer); in 2017, then-Vice President Tareck el Aissami;
and in May 2018, Pedro Luis Martin (a former senior
intelligence official) and two of his associates. Others
designated include drug trafficker Walid Makled, three dual
Lebanese-Venezuelan citizens allegedly involved in a drug
money-laundering network, and several Colombian drug
traffickers with activity in Venezuela.
Trafficking in Persons Sanctions
Since 2014, Venezuela has been on the State Department’s
Tier 3 list in its annual Trafficking in Persons Report. Tier 3
countries are those whose governments do not fully comply
with the minimum standards of the Trafficking Victims
Protection Act (P.L. 106-386, Division A, 22 U.S.C. 7101
et seq.) and are not making significant efforts to do so. Tier
3 countries are subject to a variety of U.S. aid restrictions,
although the President may waive prohibitions for national
interest reasons. In September 2017, President Trump
waived sanctions for health and democracy-related
assistance to Venezuela.
Targeted Sanctions Related to Antidemocratic
Actions, Human Rights Violations, and Corruption
In response to increasing repression in Venezuela, Congress
enacted the Venezuela Defense of Human Rights and Civil
Society Act of 2014 (P.L. 113-278; 50 U.S.C. 1701 note) in
December 2014. Among its provisions, the law requires the
President to impose sanctions (asset blocking and visa
restrictions) against those whom the President determines
are responsible for significant acts of violence or serious
human rights abuses associated with February 2014 protests
or, more broadly, against anyone who has directed or
ordered the arrest or prosecution of a person primarily
because of the person’s legitimate exercise of freedom of
expression or assembly. In July 2016, Congress extended
the 2014 act through 2019 in P.L. 114-194.
In March 2015, President Obama issued E.O. 13692 to
implement P.L. 113-278, and Treasury Department
regulations were issued in July 2015 (31 C.F.R. Part 591).
The E.O. targets (for asset blocking and visa restrictions)
those involved in actions or policies undermining
democratic processes or institutions; those involved in acts
of violence or conduct constituting a serious human rights
abuse; those taking actions that prohibit, limit, or penalize
the exercise of freedom of expression or peaceful assembly;
public corruption by senior Venezuelan officials; and any
person determined to be a current or former leader of any
entity engaged in any activity described above or a current
or former official of the government of Venezuela.


and they just made it impossible for Venezuela to sell oil to the United States, 40% of their market, and with many other countries... Screw Venezuelan oligarchs and American oligarchs... All scumbags.

Blocking visas for selected scumbag bureaucrats, restricting arms sales and "blocking" the assets of selected officials.

<YAWN!>

And today banning there oil in the United States and using American banking systems... We've absolutely screwed them, dumbass.

Their oil isn't banned in the US, dumbass, and only selected individuals in the government are banned from borrowing money.

 

[bripat9643]

So the videos on youTube showing thousands of emaciated people waiting in line for food are Western propaganda?

I haven't seen those videos.

starving people in Venezuela at DuckDuckGo

Around the nine minute mark in your video, Abby's hidden camera reveals fully stocked supermarkets in five different locations around Venezuela. Also mentioned is the claim there's no shortage of food in upscale restaurants for affluent Venezuelans. Maybe Bolton, Pence, and Rubio should follow in Abby Martin's footsteps before launching another coup attempt?

Maybe the corporate media should cease promoting fake news that is agenda driven. Maybe the right wing cucks like bripat should recognize it for what it is. Maybe he would if he didn't have the same agenda. Maybe the Democrats would stand up to the administration if they didn't also have the same agenda. I could probably go on....

The corporate fake news media is completely on the side of the Maduro regime, dumbass. If it weren't, you would be seeing reports on Venezuela every day. Instead you almost never do.

 

[Tehon]

I haven't seen those videos.

starving people in Venezuela at DuckDuckGo

Around the nine minute mark in your video, Abby's hidden camera reveals fully stocked supermarkets in five different locations around Venezuela. Also mentioned is the claim there's no shortage of food in upscale restaurants for affluent Venezuelans. Maybe Bolton, Pence, and Rubio should follow in Abby Martin's footsteps before launching another coup attempt?

Maybe the corporate media should cease promoting fake news that is agenda driven. Maybe the right wing cucks like bripat should recognize it for what it is. Maybe he would if he didn't have the same agenda. Maybe the Democrats would stand up to the administration if they didn't also have the same agenda. I could probably go on....

The corporate fake news media is completely on the side of the Maduro regime, dumbass. If it weren't, you would be seeing reports on Venezuela every day. Instead you almost never do.

Yeah, sure you're right.

 

[georgephillip]

So the videos on youTube showing thousands of emaciated people waiting in line for food are Western propaganda?

I haven't seen those videos.

starving people in Venezuela at DuckDuckGo

Around the nine minute mark in your video, Abby's hidden camera reveals fully stocked supermarkets in five different locations around Venezuela. Also mentioned is the claim there's no shortage of food in upscale restaurants for affluent Venezuelans. Maybe Bolton, Pence, and Rubio should follow in Abby Martin's footsteps before launching another coup attempt?

Maybe the corporate media should cease promoting fake news that is agenda driven. Maybe the right wing cucks like bripat should recognize it for what it is. Maybe he would if he didn't have the same agenda. Maybe the Democrats would stand up to the administration if they didn't also have the same agenda. I could probably go on....

Maybe the corporate media should cease promoting fake news that is agenda driven. Maybe the right wing cucks like bripat should recognize it for what it is. Maybe he would if he didn't have the same agenda. Maybe the Democrats would stand up to the administration if they didn't also have the same agenda. I could probably go on....

I hope the NYT and New Democrats learn from past mistakes, but that doesn't appear likely:

Your Complete Guide to the N.Y. Times’ Support of U.S.-Backed Coups in Latin America

"On Friday, The New York Times continued its long, predictable tradition of backing U.S. coups in Latin America by publishing an editorial praising Donald Trump’s attempt to overthrow Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro.

"This will be the 10th such coup the paper has backed since the creation of the CIA over 70 years ago.

"A survey of The New York Times archives shows the Times editorial board has supported 10 out of 12 American-backed coups in Latin America, with two editorials—those involving the 1983 Grenada invasion and the 2009 Honduras coup—ranging from ambiguous to reluctant opposition.

"The survey can be viewed here."

It is hard to miss the familiar script in Latin America: The CIA and its US corporate partners (directed by Wall Street banks) wage economic warfare, fund and arm the opposition, then the target of this operation is blamed.

Of course there is always the United States of Amnesia to be considered:

 

[georgephillip]

I haven't seen those videos.

starving people in Venezuela at DuckDuckGo

Around the nine minute mark in your video, Abby's hidden camera reveals fully stocked supermarkets in five different locations around Venezuela. Also mentioned is the claim there's no shortage of food in upscale restaurants for affluent Venezuelans. Maybe Bolton, Pence, and Rubio should follow in Abby Martin's footsteps before launching another coup attempt?

Maybe the corporate media should cease promoting fake news that is agenda driven. Maybe the right wing cucks like bripat should recognize it for what it is. Maybe he would if he didn't have the same agenda. Maybe the Democrats would stand up to the administration if they didn't also have the same agenda. I could probably go on....

The corporate fake news media is completely on the side of the Maduro regime, dumbass. If it weren't, you would be seeing reports on Venezuela every day. Instead you almost never do.

The corporate fake news media is completely on the side of the Maduro regime, dumbass. If it weren't, you would be seeing reports on Venezuela every day. Instead you almost never do.

Link to any US corporate media supporting Maduro?
Why President Trump is jumping into the Venezuela crisis

 

[georgephillip]

It's unappealing because it squashes individual freedom. It denies the subjective nature of utility and personal preference.

I hesitate to engage you on this, because you usually play dodge 'em rather than directly defending your views, but let me ask you this. How is your conception of value "enforced"? If someone wants to trade something with someone else for a price that doesn't match your "intrinsic value" calculation, what happens? Are they arrested? Fined? What?

Even more important, how do the pricing authorities even determine a price? What is the "value" of a ton of coal? How would they even guess without having market prices to look at?

Can you imagine a market that doesn't distribute goods and services on the basis of ability to pay?

I can imagine an institution that does that. But I'd be hard press to call it a "market".

I can imagine an institution that does that. I'd be hard press to call it a "market".

When the US economy functioned during WWII, need rather than profit drove most transactions; did that arrangement qualify as a "market"?

See, here's where you actually need some kind of citation, and you fail to provide one. While some transactions were taken "off market" and controlled by government, I think you're simply bullshitting when you say "most", or even a significant percentage.

FWIW, the transactions controlled by government would not constitute a market in my view. I have zero interest in fighting over word definitions, but all the equivocation is tiresome.

See, here's where you actually need some kind of citation, and you fail to provide one. While some transactions were taken "off market" and controlled by government, I think you're simply bullshitting when you say "most", or even a significant percentage.

ExplorePAHistory.com - Image

Both major capitalist wars in the 20th Century required the US to adopt a command economy in order to "win".

Why would you think our current malaise is any different?

Social Democracy for the 21st Century: A Realist Alternative to the Modern Left: The Success of America’s Command Economy in WWII

 

[bripat9643]

starving people in Venezuela at DuckDuckGo

Around the nine minute mark in your video, Abby's hidden camera reveals fully stocked supermarkets in five different locations around Venezuela. Also mentioned is the claim there's no shortage of food in upscale restaurants for affluent Venezuelans. Maybe Bolton, Pence, and Rubio should follow in Abby Martin's footsteps before launching another coup attempt?

Maybe the corporate media should cease promoting fake news that is agenda driven. Maybe the right wing cucks like bripat should recognize it for what it is. Maybe he would if he didn't have the same agenda. Maybe the Democrats would stand up to the administration if they didn't also have the same agenda. I could probably go on....

The corporate fake news media is completely on the side of the Maduro regime, dumbass. If it weren't, you would be seeing reports on Venezuela every day. Instead you almost never do.

The corporate fake news media is completely on the side of the Maduro regime, dumbass. If it weren't, you would be seeing reports on Venezuela every day. Instead you almost never do.

Link to any US corporate media supporting Maduro?
Why President Trump is jumping into the Venezuela crisis

They support him by not reporting all the mass suffering, atrocities, corruption, and lawlessness of the regime.

 

[bripat9643]

Even more important, how do the pricing authorities even determine a price? What is the "value" of a ton of coal? How would they even guess without having market prices to look at?

Can you imagine a market that doesn't distribute goods and services on the basis of ability to pay?

I can imagine an institution that does that. But I'd be hard press to call it a "market".

I can imagine an institution that does that. I'd be hard press to call it a "market".

When the US economy functioned during WWII, need rather than profit drove most transactions; did that arrangement qualify as a "market"?

See, here's where you actually need some kind of citation, and you fail to provide one. While some transactions were taken "off market" and controlled by government, I think you're simply bullshitting when you say "most", or even a significant percentage.

FWIW, the transactions controlled by government would not constitute a market in my view. I have zero interest in fighting over word definitions, but all the equivocation is tiresome.

See, here's where you actually need some kind of citation, and you fail to provide one. While some transactions were taken "off market" and controlled by government, I think you're simply bullshitting when you say "most", or even a significant percentage.

ExplorePAHistory.com - Image

Both major capitalist wars in the 20th Century required the US to adopt a command economy in order to "win".

Why would you think our current malaise is any different?

Social Democracy for the 21st Century: A Realist Alternative to the Modern Left: The Success of America’s Command Economy in WWII

No, they actually didn't, but leftists politicians never fail to use wars to impose their socialist schemes on America.

Your chart only shows that the government was able to increase the production of pig iron. What it doesn't show is the decline in the production of other goods that made the increase possible. Take passenger cars, for example. Production of this product went to zero during the war.

 

[georgephillip]

Around the nine minute mark in your video, Abby's hidden camera reveals fully stocked supermarkets in five different locations around Venezuela. Also mentioned is the claim there's no shortage of food in upscale restaurants for affluent Venezuelans. Maybe Bolton, Pence, and Rubio should follow in Abby Martin's footsteps before launching another coup attempt?

Maybe the corporate media should cease promoting fake news that is agenda driven. Maybe the right wing cucks like bripat should recognize it for what it is. Maybe he would if he didn't have the same agenda. Maybe the Democrats would stand up to the administration if they didn't also have the same agenda. I could probably go on....

The corporate fake news media is completely on the side of the Maduro regime, dumbass. If it weren't, you would be seeing reports on Venezuela every day. Instead you almost never do.

The corporate fake news media is completely on the side of the Maduro regime, dumbass. If it weren't, you would be seeing reports on Venezuela every day. Instead you almost never do.

Link to any US corporate media supporting Maduro?
Why President Trump is jumping into the Venezuela crisis

They support him by not reporting all the mass suffering, atrocities, corruption, and lawlessness of the regime.

They support him by not reporting all the mass suffering, atrocities, corruption, and lawlessness of the regime.

The US corporate/capitalist press reports virtually nothing regarding the corruption and lawlessness of Venezuela's opposition, and they report exactly nothing about the war crimes of chicken-hawks like John Bolton and Elliot Abrams.

ProgressVideo.TV: Venezuela Coup 2019 – Elliott Abrams, the War Criminal in Charge via Thom Hartmann Program
" Elliott Abrams is a right-wing hawk who was convicted in 1991 for lying to Congress during the Iran-Contra scandal, but he was later pardoned by President George H.W. Bush.

"Abrams defended Guatemalan dictator General Efraín Ríos Montt as he oversaw a campaign of mass murder and torture of indigenous people in Guatemala in the 1980s. Ríos Montt was later convicted of genocide.

"Abrams was also linked to the 2002 coup in Venezuela that attempted to topple Hugo Chávez.

"We look at Abrams’s track record with prize-winning investigative journalist Allan Nairn, who has closely tracked Abrams for over three decades. Nairn is two-time winner of the George Polk Award and a recipient of the Robert F. Kennedy Memorial."

Allan Nairn: Trump’s Venezuela Envoy Elliott Abrams Is a War Criminal Who Has Abetted Genocide | Democracy Now!

 

[bripat9643]

Around the nine minute mark in your video, Abby's hidden camera reveals fully stocked supermarkets in five different locations around Venezuela. Also mentioned is the claim there's no shortage of food in upscale restaurants for affluent Venezuelans. Maybe Bolton, Pence, and Rubio should follow in Abby Martin's footsteps before launching another coup attempt?

Maybe the corporate media should cease promoting fake news that is agenda driven. Maybe the right wing cucks like bripat should recognize it for what it is. Maybe he would if he didn't have the same agenda. Maybe the Democrats would stand up to the administration if they didn't also have the same agenda. I could probably go on....

The corporate fake news media is completely on the side of the Maduro regime, dumbass. If it weren't, you would be seeing reports on Venezuela every day. Instead you almost never do.

The corporate fake news media is completely on the side of the Maduro regime, dumbass. If it weren't, you would be seeing reports on Venezuela every day. Instead you almost never do.

Link to any US corporate media supporting Maduro?
Why President Trump is jumping into the Venezuela crisis

They support him by not reporting all the mass suffering, atrocities, corruption, and lawlessness of the regime.

They support him by not reporting all the mass suffering, atrocities, corruption, and lawlessness of the regime.

The US corporate/capitalist press reports virtually nothing regarding the corruption and lawlessness of Venezuela's opposition, and they report exactly nothing about the war crimes of chicken-hawks like John Bolton and Elliot Abrams.

ProgressVideo.TV: Venezuela Coup 2019 – Elliott Abrams, the War Criminal in Charge via Thom Hartmann Program
" Elliott Abrams is a right-wing hawk who was convicted in 1991 for lying to Congress during the Iran-Contra scandal, but he was later pardoned by President George H.W. Bush.

"Abrams defended Guatemalan dictator General Efraín Ríos Montt as he oversaw a campaign of mass murder and torture of indigenous people in Guatemala in the 1980s. Ríos Montt was later convicted of genocide.

"Abrams was also linked to the 2002 coup in Venezuela that attempted to topple Hugo Chávez.

"We look at Abrams’s track record with prize-winning investigative journalist Allan Nairn, who has closely tracked Abrams for over three decades. Nairn is two-time winner of the George Polk Award and a recipient of the Robert F. Kennedy Memorial."

Allan Nairn: Trump’s Venezuela Envoy Elliott Abrams Is a War Criminal Who Has Abetted Genocide | Democracy Now!

What does that have to do with Venezuela in 2019?