Who should own and control the means of production?

[loosecannon]

Our founding fathers considered it slavery if you DIDN'T own your own means of production!

What did they know?

 

[shintao]

history has shown a blurring between these forms. For instance, in the Soviet Union the means of production were controlled by a ruling elite (Politburo)

If social security were to become "privatized," the means of production would be at least partly collectively owned by all the workers.

Both of these forms present challenges to equal protection before the law. A ruling minority may exercise a corrupt prerogative over the interests of the many. When a majority holds an interest in corporate affairs, they may wield the same corrupt power over a minority

I don't think it was the intent of the Elite to make SS a collective of the workers, rather the investments of the stockholders. But then, sometimes what they do backfires.

In the majority case, corruption would be checked by the people who also own a stake in the corporate affairs. So where do you fit on the options. #1, #2, #3, or in between?

 

[Avatar4321]

Our founding fathers considered it slavery if you DIDN'T own your own means of production!

What did they know?

Alot more than the Robbers here know.

 

[cutter]

Have y'all ever considered having a civil conversation? o_0

This is as civil as I get with someone that want's to turn my country into a Socialist state. Hell No.

 

[Avatar4321]

Have y'all ever considered having a civil conversation? o_0

Other than the post by a certain member accusing others of being pedaphiles. This has been a very civil conversation.

 

[shintao]

Government is an entity, it does nothing, imbecile. It is those that control to do something, and those are corporation dumbass, the ones who control ever fool Representative we have. Got that Davey??

Yeah. It's the corporations who are fighting for more and more of the entitlement that are bankrupting us.

Are you suggesting the 14Trillion is due to the citizens entitlements?

 

[rdean]

America worked best when there was a blending of capitalism and socialism. People who were able to make lots of money invested in middle class America.

Today, you have two political parties, one that is 90% white and blindly follows a greedy leadership that sends American jobs overseas for a buck, wants to turn America into a cesspool for a buck and will pass tax breaks for people who have so many bucks, they will never be able to spend it all.

Then you have the other political party that is made up of everyone else and is so diverse, they are constantly hamstrung by incessant attacks from the other party and by their inability to present a unified front.

One side is united and unknowingly anti American.

If you are against the middle class, you are anti American. If you vote people into office that hurt the country, then you are anti American. Call yourself patriotic, but if you vote people into office and the very first thing they do is hold the middle class hostage to bring hundreds of billions to 1.7% of America, then you are most definitely "anti American".

The other side is simply too fractured.

The fact that the Republican Party is 90% white makes it the "natural leader" of the country, not because they are white, but because they are "unified" in a way the other party isn't.

But the Republican Party has simply become too stupid. Seriously, how can the base accept their leadership apologizing to BP? The fiasco that is Iraq? Another 1.1 trillion added to the deficit and the reason for that? To give money to millionaires and billionaires? And still, they defend the "indefensible". The Democrats have too much to lose standing against the Republicans.

Simply the FACT that the Republican leadership is whining about having to work close to Christmas when they wanted to deny unemployment benefits to millions of Americans JUST BEFORE CHRISTMAS simply to give money to "Scrooge" that Scrooge didn't even ask for. It's so over the top is a disgrace. Deep down, the Republican base has to feel spit on. If they don't, then they are truly stupid.

 

[loosecannon]

America worked best when there was a blending of capitalism and socialism.

Why would you want to blend two failed systems when there are billions more that you haven't even tried yet?

I assume you are familiar with the definitions of insanity?

 

[uptownlivin90]

 

[JBeukema]

Who should own and control the means of production?

The producers

 

[JBeukema]

One of the central questions of any political ideology is "Who should own and control the means the production?" (Means of production refers to factories, farmlands, machinery, office space, etc.) Generally there have been three approaches to this issue.

1.The first was aristocracy, in which a ruling elite owned the land and productive wealth, and peasants and serfs had to obey their orders in return for their livelihood.

2.The second is capitalism, which disbanded the ruling elite and allows a much broader range of private individuals to own the means of production. However, this ownership is limited to those who can afford to buy productive wealth; nearly all workers are excluded.

3.The third approach is socialism, which is defined as "the collective ownership and control of the means of production." That is, everyone owns and controls productive wealth, which is accomplished through the vote.

As you can see, there is a spectrum here, ranging from a few people owning productive wealth at one end, to everyone owning it at the other.
====http://www.huppi.com

I believe we are currently between 2 & 3 as we add more regulations, etc. to those that own & control production, due to flaws in Capitalism.

1) such is not the only definition of socialism

2) through the vote? That would mean the State owned the means of production. Sounds like fascism

 

[uptownlivin90]

Who should own and control the means of production?

God.... duhhhhhhhhhh!!

Really, are we seriously going to have this discussion? Honestly?

 

[JBeukema]

The people who own the property used.

Who should own property?

Should anyone?

Should it be owned for eternity?

Should all the land be privately owned, or should there be commons?

Who determines who own what? Whoever satisfies the State and the ruling class gets the legal right to the land?

 

[JBeukema]

And who exactly are you to take someone elses property?

I'm sure a few native american tribes would like to ask the same question

You're assuming their claim to own the land is a valid one

 

[JBeukema]

And who exactly are you to take someone elses property?

I am me, who is everyone but the owner of production that I must make a living wage from. He the owner is a known dangerous person who must be owned and controlled from destroying us all. He should only exist as the government where I can control him.

red: inversion, rather than abolition of systematic oppression...

blue: fascism

 

[JBeukema]

Shin's come out of his shell


I say we burn the fascist at the stake

 

[JBeukema]

Capitalism is bankrupt to the tune 14Trillion

Dept. of AgitProp
Rejected
​

We regret to inform you that your submission has been rejected. It is the opinion of the Department that your submission lacks sufficient credibility and is in need of further refinement. An example acceptable-grade AgitProp for your cause might be provided for you to study, at the discretion of the Department of Agitation and Propaganda.

Sincerely,

James T. Beukema
Minister of AgitProp



The nation-state known as the USA is bankrupt....

so stop talking nonsense.

 

[JBeukema]

And who exactly are you to take someone elses property?

I am me, who is everyone but the owner of production that I must make a living wage from. He the owner is a known dangerous person who must be owned and controlled from destroying us all. He should only exist as the government where I can control him.

You are a communist. Isn't there a communist country you could move to?

Actually, Shin's a fascist, if you read carefully

The State (government) should be the Boss who owns the means of production- because some little idiot on the Internet can control it (become the dictator) then

 

[JBeukema]

Shin, you have been reported to the Antifa League for monitoring and control.

 

[Agit8r]

I believe in an essentially free market, however I also believe that