Who should own and control the means of production?

And who exactly are you to take someone elses property?

I am me, who is everyone but the owner of production that I must make a living wage from. He the owner is a known dangerous person who must be owned and controlled from destroying us all. He should only exist as the government where I can control him.

Then you do what you can to govern your own life. Stop trying to take the property of others for your benefit.

Do you realize what you mean by benefit? It is #1.
 
And who exactly are you to take someone elses property?

I am me, who is everyone but the owner of production that I must make a living wage from. He the owner is a known dangerous person who must be owned and controlled from destroying us all. He should only exist as the government where I can control him.

You are a communist. Isn't there a communist country you could move to?

He's a chickenred.

chickenred

Someone who advocates Communism but is too cowardly to move to a Communist nation; who advocates the destruction of the US Constitution while hiding behind its protections; who condemns the American consumerism lifestyle while living that same lifestyle.
That woman at the protest handing out pro-Castro literature is a chickenred...she'd never move to Cuba.
 
And who exactly are you to take someone elses property?

I am me, who is everyone but the owner of production that I must make a living wage from. He the owner is a known dangerous person who must be owned and controlled from destroying us all. He should only exist as the government where I can control him.

You are a communist. Isn't there a communist country you could move to?

Have you ever had a Cinnamon roll for breakfast? Not out of a tube, but from a bakery or home made?
 
Where have you seen a successful Socialist program? Never. Capitalism has been the most successful program ever. Problem is everyone wants to be boss and most aren't smart enough. At least with Capitalism if you are smart enough the bosses will make sure you get ahead. You don't have to be some 3rd cousin of the current dictator

Capitalism is bankrupt to the tune 14Trillion, so stop talking nonsense. It has murdered millions in its Empirical wars, polluted the Earth, and starved the people it was to serve. And while you ignore it, socialism does work, and is shown to you over & over & over again, so you must be blind if you missed it. I am sure I could point out a country today and you would ask the same question tomorrow.

This debate has to do with what capitalism is capable of doing to the serfs, which is move you back to #1. if left unabated.

There are no serfs in capitalism.

Capitalism is merely the natural law of economics. It's what happens when the government doesn't oppress men and keep them from being their own masters.

And that is your excuse for Trillions of debt YOU owe because capitalism failed? And you surely will never repay the debt, so who is left to do that for you? For the good of the Corrupt corportions??
 
The producers, those who invest in the producers, and those that consume what is produced (I.E. producing the demand)... there is no other way in a free society...

If government starts to take it over, it should be eliminated from the picture like any other theif
 
Capitalism is bankrupt to the tune 14Trillion, so stop talking nonsense. It has murdered millions in its Empirical wars, polluted the Earth, and starved the people it was to serve. And while you ignore it, socialism does work, and is shown to you over & over & over again, so you must be blind if you missed it. I am sure I could point out a country today and you would ask the same question tomorrow.

This debate has to do with what capitalism is capable of doing to the serfs, which is move you back to #1. if left unabated.

There are no serfs in capitalism.

Capitalism is merely the natural law of economics. It's what happens when the government doesn't oppress men and keep them from being their own masters.

And that is your excuse for Trillions of debt YOU owe because capitalism failed? And you surely will never repay the debt, so who is left to do that for you? For the good of the Corrupt corportions??

No, idiot.. it is not because capitalism failed... the debt is because an overbloated and corrupt government has failed... failed us bad
 
One of the central questions of any political ideology is "Who should own and control the means the production?" (Means of production refers to factories, farmlands, machinery, office space, etc.) Generally there have been three approaches to this issue.

1.The first was aristocracy, in which a ruling elite owned the land and productive wealth, and peasants and serfs had to obey their orders in return for their livelihood.

2.The second is capitalism, which disbanded the ruling elite and allows a much broader range of private individuals to own the means of production. However, this ownership is limited to those who can afford to buy productive wealth; nearly all workers are excluded.

3.The third approach is socialism, which is defined as "the collective ownership and control of the means of production." That is, everyone owns and controls productive wealth, which is accomplished through the vote.

As you can see, there is a spectrum here, ranging from a few people owning productive wealth at one end, to everyone owning it at the other.
====http://www.huppi.com

I believe we are currently between 2 & 3 as we add more regulations, etc. to those that own & control production, due to flaws in Capitalism.

The anarcho syndicalists should own the means of production! Everybody knows that!

In a nutshell an anarcho-syndicalist believes that labor should own the means of production via their own capitalist ventures/companies/corporations/coops and that EVERYBODY should be in the labor class.

Anarcho-syndicalism is a branch of anarchism which focuses on the labour movement.[1] Syndicalisme is a French word, ultimately derived from the Greek, meaning "trade unionism" – hence, the "syndicalism" qualification. Syndicalism is an alternative co-operative economic system. Adherents view it as a potential force for revolutionary social change, replacing capitalism and the state with a new society, democratically self-managed by workers.

Anarcho-syndicalists seek to abolish the wage system, regarding it as wage slavery, and state or private ownership of the means of production, which they believe lead to class divisions. Not all seek to abolish money per se. Ralph Chaplin states that "the ultimate aim of the General Strike as regards wages is to give to each producer the full product of his labor. The demand for better wages becomes revolutionary only when it is coupled with the demand that the exploitation of labor must cease."[2]

Additionally, anarcho-syndicalists regard the state as a profoundly anti-worker institution. They view the primary purpose of the State as being the defence of private property and therefore of economic, social and political privilege, even when such defence denies its citizens the ability to enjoy material independence and the social autonomy which springs from it.[3] In contrast to other bodies of thought (Marxism-Leninism being a prime example), anarcho-syndicalists deny that there can be any kind of workers' state, or a state which acts in the interests of workers, as opposed to those of the rich and powerful. Reflecting the anarchist philosophy from which it draws its primary inspiration, anarcho-syndicalism holds to the idea that power corrupts.[4]

Although anarcho-syndicalism originated close to the beginning of the twentieth century, it remains a popular and active school of anarchism today and has many supporters as well as many currently active organizations. Anarcho-syndicalist trade unionists, being socialist anarchists, vary in their points of view on anarchist economic arrangements from a collectivist anarchism type economic system to an anarcho-communist economic system

Anarcho-syndicalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

here's another treatment of anarcho-syndicalism
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o76WQzVJ434[/ame]
 
Where have you seen a successful Socialist program? Never. Capitalism has been the most successful program ever. Problem is everyone wants to be boss and most aren't smart enough. At least with Capitalism if you are smart enough the bosses will make sure you get ahead. You don't have to be some 3rd cousin of the current dictator

Capitalism is bankrupt to the tune 14Trillion, so stop talking nonsense. It has murdered millions in its Empirical wars, polluted the Earth, and starved the people it was to serve. And while you ignore it, socialism does work, and is shown to you over & over & over again, so you must be blind if you missed it. I am sure I could point out a country today and you would ask the same question tomorrow.

This debate has to do with what capitalism is capable of doing to the serfs, which is move you back to #1. if left unabated.

The government has 14 trillion of debt.
Government is NOT capitalism.
Take a look at your house, your home, your family and all of their possessions.
That is capitalism. The US has 1/3 of the total assets in the world.
Last year we had 20 trillion in gross national product. 14 trillion is not good to have but that is good compared to the average consumer worldwide, very good for Americans.
The average American makes about 30% of what their debt is. An American that makes 60K a year has about 180K of debt in a mortgage, car etc.

That is comforting to know. So you think that #2 is a better economic means? Do you also feel we should remove all the regulations, etc. we have imposed on business to have a truly capitalist free market freedom system? Which in turn would shrink government considerably.
 
There are no serfs in capitalism.

Capitalism is merely the natural law of economics. It's what happens when the government doesn't oppress men and keep them from being their own masters.

And that is your excuse for Trillions of debt YOU owe because capitalism failed? And you surely will never repay the debt, so who is left to do that for you? For the good of the Corrupt corportions??

No, idiot.. it is not because capitalism failed... the debt is because an overbloated and corrupt government has failed... failed us bad

Well imbecile, do you happen to know who owns government? Let me give you a fucking vowel, not U. Gawd where do they find these stupid fucking people?
 
Capitalism is bankrupt to the tune 14Trillion, so stop talking nonsense. It has murdered millions in its Empirical wars, polluted the Earth, and starved the people it was to serve. And while you ignore it, socialism does work, and is shown to you over & over & over again, so you must be blind if you missed it. I am sure I could point out a country today and you would ask the same question tomorrow.

This debate has to do with what capitalism is capable of doing to the serfs, which is move you back to #1. if left unabated.

There are no serfs in capitalism.

Capitalism is merely the natural law of economics. It's what happens when the government doesn't oppress men and keep them from being their own masters.

And that is your excuse for Trillions of debt YOU owe because capitalism failed? And you surely will never repay the debt, so who is left to do that for you? For the good of the Corrupt corportions??
Capitalism didn't cause the debt. The government did. And your "solution" is MORE government.

Idiot. :cool:
 
I am me, who is everyone but the owner of production that I must make a living wage from. He the owner is a known dangerous person who must be owned and controlled from destroying us all. He should only exist as the government where I can control him.

You are a communist. Isn't there a communist country you could move to?

He's a chickenred.

chickenred

Someone who advocates Communism but is too cowardly to move to a Communist nation; who advocates the destruction of the US Constitution while hiding behind its protections; who condemns the American consumerism lifestyle while living that same lifestyle.
That woman at the protest handing out pro-Castro literature is a chickenred...she'd never move to Cuba.

And your a pedophile. Someone who likes to play sexually with little children, who molests children while he hides behind the laws he wish were not there: He publicly condemns child molestation while fondling children in the parks at the merry go round. That guy beating his pud at the park bench is our pedophile and he would never give up his park by cutting the city's park funds.
 
And that is your excuse for Trillions of debt YOU owe because capitalism failed? And you surely will never repay the debt, so who is left to do that for you? For the good of the Corrupt corportions??

I dont owe the debt. My children do. Why?

Because communists like you are trying to spend us out of existance as an excuse to overthrow the liberty of this nation. For what? So you can have the property of others.

Pathetic and sick.
 
history has shown a blurring between these forms. For instance, in the Soviet Union the means of production were controlled by a ruling elite (Politburo)

If social security were to become "privatized," the means of production would be at least partly collectively owned by all the workers.

Both of these forms present challenges to equal protection before the law. A ruling minority may exercise a corrupt prerogative over the interests of the many. When a majority holds an interest in corporate affairs, they may wield the same corrupt power over a minority
 
There are no serfs in capitalism.

Capitalism is merely the natural law of economics. It's what happens when the government doesn't oppress men and keep them from being their own masters.

And that is your excuse for Trillions of debt YOU owe because capitalism failed? And you surely will never repay the debt, so who is left to do that for you? For the good of the Corrupt corportions??
Capitalism didn't cause the debt. The government did. And your "solution" is MORE government.

Idiot. :cool:

Government is an entity, it does nothing, imbecile. It is those that control to do something, and those are corporation dumbass, the ones who control ever fool Representative we have. Got that Davey??
 
Capitalism didn't cause the debt. The government did. And your "solution" is MORE government.

Idiot. :cool:

Not only that. But the government is in more debt furthering the objectives he wants to create more.

He doesn't understand basic economics. Dont spend money on things you cant afford.
 
Government is an entity, it does nothing, imbecile. It is those that control to do something, and those are corporation dumbass, the ones who control ever fool Representative we have. Got that Davey??

Yeah. It's the corporations who are fighting for more and more of the entitlement that are bankrupting us.
 
Ya'll are missing the boat.

The choice is not between capitalism and communism.

The choice is between anythings you you can imagine.

To confine the discussion between the same tired old bogey men that have been chasing you since your youth is silly and imaginatively bankrupt.

What if every single citizen owned their own means of production! What a novel thought! Except that is the way it was for millions of years.

What if families, tribes and clans owned their own means of production! What a novel idea, except that is how it was for millions of years.

To be stuck between two dead ideologies as your only possibilities is to be stuck in a box that has never been real, and to be a permanent prisoner of the class wars.
 
And that is your excuse for Trillions of debt YOU owe because capitalism failed? And you surely will never repay the debt, so who is left to do that for you? For the good of the Corrupt corportions??

I dont owe the debt. My children do. Why?

Because communists like you are trying to spend us out of existance as an excuse to overthrow the liberty of this nation. For what? So you can have the property of others.

Pathetic and sick.

Hmm, lets see, your family does (good, I wanted you to say that), but communists are the ones you are borrowing trillions from, to who your little kiddies are in debt, so you are saying all our politicians are now communists? Really, but politicians are controlled by their masters the Corporations, so they must be commies as well.

And tell me, what property do own? Surely not you house, you are taxed on it like rent, it is not yours and never will be. The same is true of those luxury items, from cars to airplanes, you just rent them and receive a paper giving you a right to the property over other citizens. But the commie government owns them. So I would be taking noones property, just taking the management and control of production. The taking is pretty much over as you can see by the regulations, millions of pages of laws, etc. on business.
 
Where have you seen a successful Socialist program? Never. Capitalism has been the most successful program ever. Problem is everyone wants to be boss and most aren't smart enough. At least with Capitalism if you are smart enough the bosses will make sure you get ahead. You don't have to be some 3rd cousin of the current dictator

Capitalism is bankrupt to the tune 14Trillion, so stop talking nonsense. It has murdered millions in its Empirical wars, polluted the Earth, and starved the people it was to serve. And while you ignore it, socialism does work, and is shown to you over & over & over again, so you must be blind if you missed it. I am sure I could point out a country today and you would ask the same question tomorrow.

This debate has to do with what capitalism is capable of doing to the serfs, which is move you back to #1. if left unabated.

You mean socialist country's never had a war?(Germany), Polluted anything?(China),starved people?(China). I guess if it works so good over and over it's because none of them last too long. And WHAT country's that were so successful did you mention? Oh that's right, NONE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. Best country EVER. Only problem we have is too many Socialist Politicians.
 
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