Zone1 Who Benefits from the Suppression of Racial information on Crime?

[Tommy Tainant]

Continued desperation. Why? More proof that you are a white guy eager to stir the pot of racism. Shame on you!

Is it really your point that criminal behaviour is determined by skin colour ?
Thats it ? Really.

 

[Lisa558]

Me talking about continuing white racism is not about any failure I have, it is about the failure of a specific portion of the white community. Now you and the other ignorant right wing whites can bark and make claims but I have made threads showing specifically what has been done. So your opinion is really irrelevant. You argue with the attitude of "I'm white and I say so." Well, that's not good enough. You make comments about blacks as if you know when you don't.

You tell me about blacks being disproportionately criminal, but blacks are disproportionately in poverty and unemployed. You and others like you are too stupid to understand that racism takes a physical and psychological toll on people of color. You have not studied these aspects of racism and your opinions are based on your experience being white, never facing racism, and reading books written by some black sellout that tells you what you want to hear.

Again as it pertains to crime, the most accurate measure is taking the people who actually are criminal offenders by race. When we do that, we see that whites commit the most crime. Proportion has nothing to do with this argument. There are more whites than anyone else, that means the likelihood of a crime committed by someone white is greater than the probability of any other race.

If I have 70 apples, 13 oranges, 15, pears, and 2 bananas, in a box, the probability of me getting an apple is greater than getting any other fruit in the box. Racism has white trying to claim the exact opposite, that even if there are 70 apples in the box, the chances of getting an orange is greater. This is dumb, but it falls in line with the cognitive dissonance whites such as yourself have.

You were the one who posted a quote from a leftist saying that Jews “should just get over it” (re antisemitism).

Maybe YOU should get over that ancestors you never met were slaves, and be thankful for the favoritism shown blacks for two generations. Meanwhile, I’m trying to get over the fact that antisemites just spray-painted “Jews are not welcome here” on a high school - imagine how the Jewish students there feel!” - and a swastika near a bike path. My elderly mother lives in the area, and my brother has removed the mezuzah from his doorpost.

And you tell JEWS to “get over it” while you create thread after thread moaning about racism.

Get over it.

 

[Lisa558]

Is it really your point that criminal behaviour is determined by skin colour ?
Thats it ? Really.

No, her point is that criminal behavior is correlated with poverty, and poverty is correlated with single girls having babies they can’t afford. With a 72% illegitimacy rate, is it any surprise that blacks are poorer than whites?

Girls: Best choice is NOT to have sex during high school. Second choice is to use birth control yourself and insist the boy use a condom. Double up like that and fewer than 1 in 1000 will get pregnant.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Let stop the false equivalences. There is not very many places blacks can go in this country wiithout interacting with whites. I can travel in some states for hundreds of miles and not see a person of color. In order to survive in this nation, we must be able to interact successfully with whites, meaning that we must have some understanding.

So, you are actually saying that you in fact do know what it is like to be white, even though it is impossible for me to know what it is like to be black?

Do you also know what it is like to be a Venezualan asylum seeker? How about an Inuit? What about trans?*

However, the claims made here by many so called republican whites about blacks comes from a position of total ignorance about black people. I am a college-educated man. My parents, grandparents, aunt, uncles, elders in the neighborhood, all stressed the importance of education.

Blacks who are taught that will be successful, same as whites.

We are taught that we must work twice as hard to get what whites are given with ease,

That's a lie that you are taught then.

we are not taught to wait for whitey to give us things. Because history shows that "whitey" gives out handouts to other whites

I never got mine.

while placing conditions ob us if we want the same thing.

Yes, like staying on the Democratic Party Plantation.

So wherever you get that dumb blaming somebody for my failure rap can only come from one place and for one reason.

I assumed you were a failure becuase of your constant complaining, which is a common trait among failures of all colors.

So work to end that.

Be specific about the work you ask of me. What could a white person do for you to say, "ok, that white person is doing exactly the right thing?"

As for post #129, feel free.

Alright, then.

Speaking of Venezualans and trans folk, how do you like them playing the victim card now and getting all the attention from Democrats? Seems like the only blacks the media pays attention to anymore are "white Supremacists."

 

[Seymour Flops]

If I have 70 apples, 13 oranges, 15, pears, and 2 bananas, in a box, the probability of me getting an apple is greater than getting any other fruit in the box. Racism has white trying to claim the exact opposite, that even if there are 70 apples in the box, the chances of getting an orange is greater. This is dumb, but it falls in line with the cognitive dissonance whites such as yourself have.

Love me some statistics.

Suppose you had those numbers of fruit in a box. Suppose you asked one thousand people to randomly pick a piece of fruit and put it back in the box. You would expect that the results would be:

Apples - 700
Oranges - 130
Pears - 150
Bananas 30

The theoretical probability of an orange being selected would be .13 or 13%

Suppose the results were as follows:

Apples - 660
Oranges - 220
Pears - 110
Bananas 10

Now after the experiment, we know that the experimental probability of an orange being selected is .22 or 22%, much higher than expected.

The theoretical probability of a banana being selected was .03, or 3% but the experimental probability turned out to be only .01 or 1%.

So, how can we interpret that? The answer is most likely that the selection process is not random. For whatever reason oranges are being selected at a higher rate than apples.

We could just say, "So? People still picked more apples, so apples are more likely to be selected!"

True enough, but any individual apple in that box is actually less likely to be selected than an individual orange. An individual banana stands very little chance of being selected in one pick.

By the same token, even though there are more whites than blacks, an individual black is more likely to commit a crime than any individual white, if race is the only factor (and isn't it always for some folks). Also more likely to go to prison.

Most of the race activists embrace that statistic about more college age black men being in jail or prison than in college and claim that it is due to a racist criminal justice system. You might consider switching to that argument, since at least the math would be right.

You tell me about blacks being disproportionately criminal, but blacks are disproportionately in poverty and unemployed. You and others like you are too stupid to understand that racism takes a physical and psychological toll on people of color. You have not studied these aspects of racism and your opinions are based on your experience being white, never facing racism, and reading books written by some black sellout that tells you what you want to hear.

That's a much better argument than that misapplied math.

Of course racism takes a toll. Of course it does so in ways that I cannot understand. But what to do about it, without making it worse?

Rightly or wrongly, the plain fact is that you will never overcome racism by whining and bitching about it. You certainly won't overcome racism by burning down businesses. All that just feeds into racism.

Every demographic that came to this country, other than English white male landowners, came with a disadvantage due to that demographic. They all faced discrimination of some kind. They all overcame that and succeeded though hard work.

Yes, blacks started off deeper in the hole than Italians, Jews, and even Chinese rail workers. But the overwhelming majority of blacks have worked their way out of the plight of their ancestors and are successful in the system. That in spite of a shrinking vestige of racist whites who actively work to hold blacks back, and a shrinking vestige of self-hating blacks who will never stop blaming whitey for their failure to achieve what other blacks have.

BTW, that vestige of racist whites who still actively work to hold blacks back? Their name is the Democratic Party. Those are the only whites who benefit by keeping black people from succeeding. But, luckily, that aspect of the Democratic Party is finally fading.

The fact that the Democrats have switched over to "helping" illegals and people with sexual disorders is the best thing that could have happened to black folks.

 

[Polishprince]

Is it really your point that criminal behaviour is determined by skin colour ?
Thats it ? Really.

No one thinks that at all.

But if there is a crime wave among one ethnic/racial group or another, the general public as well as the police certainly has the right to know that information so they can be aware and avoid those particular individuals that they don't know. That is, if they want to avoid being a victim.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

No, her point is that criminal behavior is correlated with poverty, and poverty is correlated with single girls having babies they can’t afford. With a 72% illegitimacy rate, is it any surprise that blacks are poorer than whites?

Girls: Best choice is NOT to have sex during high school. Second choice is to use birth control yourself and insist the boy use a condom. Double up like that and fewer than 1 in 1000 will get pregnant.

So why focus on black people ? The majoity of crime is not comitted by black folk but it doesnt get a mention.
That is just racism. XXXXXXXXXXXX.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

No one thinks that at all.

But if there is a crime wave among one ethnic/racial group or another, the general public as well as the police certainly has the right to know that information so they can be aware and avoid those particular individuals that they don't know. That is, if they want to avoid being a victim.

RACISM

 

[MizMolly]

The ones that you quote to support your racist outlook.

Show my quotes. You can’t because I didn’t quote any figures. Your lies are easy to see. You are the one who said too many black kids are locked up for crimes they didn’t commit. You know this how? Don’t you know everyone in jail claims to be innocent?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Show my quotes. You can’t because I didn’t quote any figures. Your lies are easy to see. You are the one who said too many black kids are locked up for crimes they didn’t commit. You know this how? Don’t you know everyone in jail claims to be innocent?

You challenged my fact that the crime figures are crap. Because you are a racist.

 

[MizMolly]

You challenged my fact that the crime figures are crap. Because you are a racist.

Challenging is not racist but you have me confused with someone else. I disagreed with your post that too many innocent black kids are locked up. Where is your proof of that? First you said my figures were wrong, I didn’t post any figures. Then you call me racist for challenging your post. Put your crack pipe down.

 

[IM2]

Love me some statistics.

Suppose you had those numbers of fruit in a box. Suppose you asked one thousand people to randomly pick a piece of fruit and put it back in the box. You would expect that the results would be:

Apples - 700
Oranges - 130
Pears - 150
Bananas 30

The theoretical probability of an orange being selected would be .13 or 13%

Suppose the results were as follows:

Apples - 660
Oranges - 220
Pears - 110
Bananas 10

Now after the experiment, we know that the experimental probability of an orange being selected is .22 or 22%, much higher than expected.

The theoretical probability of a banana being selected was .03, or 3% but the experimental probability turned out to be only .01 or 1%.

So, how can we interpret that? The answer is most likely that the selection process is not random. For whatever reason oranges are being selected at a higher rate than apples.

We could just say, "So? People still picked more apples, so apples are more likely to be selected!"

True enough, but any individual apple in that box is actually less likely to be selected than an individual orange. An individual banana stands very little chance of being selected in one pick.

By the same token, even though there are more whites than blacks, an individual black is more likely to commit a crime than any individual white, if race is the only factor (and isn't it always for some folks). Also more likely to go to prison.

Most of the race activists embrace that statistic about more college age black men being in jail or prison than in college and claim that it is due to a racist criminal justice system. You might consider switching to that argument, since at least the math would be right.


That's a much better argument than that misapplied math.

Of course racism takes a toll. Of course it does so in ways that I cannot understand. But what to do about it, without making it worse?

Rightly or wrongly, the plain fact is that you will never overcome racism by whining and bitching about it. You certainly won't overcome racism by burning down businesses. All that just feeds into racism.

Every demographic that came to this country, other than English white male landowners, came with a disadvantage due to that demographic. They all faced discrimination of some kind. They all overcame that and succeeded though hard work.

Yes, blacks started off deeper in the hole than Italians, Jews, and even Chinese rail workers. But the overwhelming majority of blacks have worked their way out of the plight of their ancestors and are successful in the system. That in spite of a shrinking vestige of racist whites who actively work to hold blacks back, and a shrinking vestige of self-hating blacks who will never stop blaming whitey for their failure to achieve what other blacks have.

BTW, that vestige of racist whites who still actively work to hold blacks back? Their name is the Democratic Party. Those are the only whites who benefit by keeping black people from succeeding. But, luckily, that aspect of the Democratic Party is finally fading.

The fact that the Democrats have switched over to "helping" illegals and people with sexual disorders is the best thing that could have happened to black folks.

Ok, let's examine claim of proportionality and crime. The argument has been that since whites are 5 times the population of blacks that crime is a more serious issue for blacks. That if blacks had the same population as whites the crime rate would be astronomical.

The problem with this opinion is if you multiply things by 5 to make the populations the same, there are things that no longer exist for blacks. We would have more economic opportunities. We would have equal representation relative to numbers of police, lawyers, judges, and political representatives. Increased black representation affects public policy formation, law enforcement, and legislation. Crime would reduce because of the increased opportunities; wealth would increase, and poverty would be dramatically reduced. Long-needed community improvements would be initiated in blighted communities, which increases property value, creating additional funding for schools in those communities.

The number of blacks entering and graduating college now rises to the same level as whites. These increases result in a more highly trained and qualified black workforce. Blacks would have the same number of businesses, and those businesses would be staffed with black employees. This increase in jobs lowers black unemployment to the same rate as whites. Fewer blacks would be on government assistance because they now have stable employment. Things would be dramatically different. Yet to the racist, nothing else changes except that crime increases.

You state that every group faced something. None of the white groups were enslaved; or faced Jim Crow. White ethnic groups dropped their ethnic differences and used skin color to unite.

Sarah Kendzior, How do you become “white” in America? How do you become “white” in America?

Art McDonald, Ph.D., How the Irish Became White

How the Irish Became White

Whites of every ethnicity and religion were able to participate in the government programs that created the white middle class while non whites were excluded. Your opinion leaves out this reality and you do so purposefully.

You claim the democratic party is the vestige for the racism blacks face. That's a lie and I'm really tired of you white republicans telling that lie. Racism has been multi partisan

This is a brief encapsulation of the history of the republican party and blacks.

Republicans authored an amendment to officially make slavery a constitutionally protected activity. The Republican Party is the party of The Corwin Amendment that would have cemented slavery as a constitutional right.

A Republican president, with the support of the Republican Party, ended reconstruction. The Republican Party is the party of the 1877 Compromise that ended reconstruction and paved the way for Jim Crow.

Once blacks got a foothold in the Republican party and gained some semblance of political equality, white Republicans took steps to purge blacks from leadership positions. The Republican Party is the party of the Lily White movement, a group of Republicans who worked to purge blacks from the party.

Blacks were mostly republican for 100 years, then a democratic President signed our second emancipation proclamation in 1964. Now you republicans disingenuously post Johnsons comments about blacks while bragging about being the party of Lincoln.

Lincoln supported the Corwin Amendment.

“I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution—which amendment, however, I have not seen—has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service ... holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Those who have studied Lincoln claim that his views evolved. Did they? The Second Confiscation Act in 1862 had provisions for the colonization of blacks who chose to leave. Both Dr. Henry Louis Gates and the 1619 Project have written about a meeting between blacks and Lincoln whereby he made insulting comments to them, blamed blacks for the Civil War, and demanded they accept his plan to resettle blacks outside of America. According to both sources, on Aug. 14, 1862, Lincoln met with black representatives at the White House to try getting blacks to accept getting shipped out of the country. They refused.

Republicans consistently broke promises or ignored issues that affected black people. When blacks got Civil Rights, the Republican Party did not believe that was civil or right and decided that extremism in defense of liberty was no vice. In 1964 the Republican Party turned its back on blacks after nearly 100 years of black support by nominating Barry Goldwater, a man that opposed the Civil Rights Act.

So stop trying to pass those stale lies about the democratic and republican parties.

Blacks are 13-14 percent of the population and are 0.6 percent of the American population as it pertains the American population and criminal offenders. THIS is the accurate measure of black crime. Your opinion is just a bunch jibberish based on your white anti black hate

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Challenging is not racist but you have me confused with someone else. I disagreed with your post that too many innocent black kids are locked up. Where is your proof of that? First you said my figures were wrong, I didn’t post any figures. Then you call me racist for challenging your post. Put your crack pipe down.

I asked if you felt that your figures were good. I had already stated that they were crap. Anyone who puts faith in them is a racist or thick or,usually, both.

 

[Lisa558]

LOL. If you’re having trouble falling asleep, just read another one of IM2’s same-old, same-old diatribes!

 

[Lisa558]

IM2 creates such havoc that the mods just give him whatever he wants so he doesn't bother them. It's like he has his own private forum.

Except it wasn’t IM2 who is calling white posters “racist trash.” It’s a different leftist.

 

[Coyote]

No, the parents have to instill the right values. It’s not always about something external to blame. Black parents (mostly moms) raising children in a poor black neighborhood need to emphasize how they need to stay in school and learn a trade.

And don’t say they don’t have resources for that. It takes NO resources to teach good values. My grandparents were dirt poor, and my parents grew up in poverty worse than the poor black neighborhoods today, and they were taught the right values - along with all of their friends.

It is arrogant to assume black’s as a group don’t strive to teach their kids the right values because you, as an individual, had grandparents that did.

 

[Coyote]

You were the one who posted a quote from a leftist saying that Jews “should just get over it” (re antisemitism).

Maybe YOU should get over that ancestors you never met were slaves, and be thankful for the favoritism shown blacks for two generations. Meanwhile, I’m trying to get over the fact that antisemites just spray-painted “Jews are not welcome here” on a high school - imagine how the Jewish students there feel!” - and a swastika near a bike path. My elderly mother lives in the area, and my brother has removed the mezuzah from his doorpost.

And you tell JEWS to “get over it” while you create thread after thread moaning about racism.

Get over it.

They probably feel much like blacks and gays did in this school. Maybe they should join forces to combat hate.

Racial, homophobic slurs spray-painted at San Dieguito High School Academy

The county Sheriff's Department was investigating the incident as a hate crime

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

 

[Lisa558]

It is arrogant to assume black’s as a group don’t strive to teach their kids the right values because you, as an individual, had grandparents that did.

Blacks, as a group, do not value education as strongly as Jews. That’s a fact. Learning is considered a Mitzvah in the Jewish religion, and has been since before Jesus.

 

[Lisa558]

They probably feel much like blacks and gays did in this school. Maybe they should join forces to combat hate.

Racial, homophobic slurs spray-painted at San Dieguito High School Academy

The county Sheriff's Department was investigating the incident as a hate crime

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

We don’t have to diminish antisemitism by lumping it together with other forms of bigotry. Just like blacks wanted the slogan Black Lives Matter, to focus specifically on racism, we want to focus specifically on the rise in antisemitism.

When blacks complain about racism, do you tell them to join forces with Jews - and then show an antisemitic act? No, you do not.

 

[Coyote]

There seems to an overriding assumption that black mothers don’t teach “values” to their kids and that is why they commit crimes in disproportionate rates.

The interesting thing is…I know plenty of white families who did everything “right” yet ended up with kids addicted to drugs, committing crimes, etc.

There are a lot of factors that go into this, beyond what parents are able to do at any given time.

Social infrastructure for example. I was lucky. I grew up as a “free range” kid in a pretty safe middle class suburban neighborhood. I didn’t have to worry about tripping over heroin addicts on my way home, or passing drug deals on the corner, and I never experienced a shooting in my neighbor or knew any one who had been shot. We didn’t have to walk through metal detectors at school. We had safe playgrounds and a YMCA in walking distance. I didn’t have to take a job or drop out of school to help support my family. I didn’t watch other poor kids flashing gold and getting rich selling drugs.

There are good parents, indifferent parents, and bad parents, and it has nothing to do with race. My mother taught us values, and it was up to us to take them. My father was a severe alcohol and seldom present both in person and financially, so my mother raised us pretty much as a single working mother in an era when that was frowned upon. I never did drugs or committed crimes and I stayed in school. Yet my brother was far more disturbed, dropped out of school, got into drugs. Same values. I can only imagine how much harder it is for parents in worse neighborhoods who’s kids have far worse things to face.