Ravi
Diamond Member
50 Cent or Billy Bob is a straight culture connection. Ayisha/John is a straight race connection.
I can't agree with that. Unless you ask the people making the calls, you can only guess what is motivating them.
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50 Cent or Billy Bob is a straight culture connection. Ayisha/John is a straight race connection.
how so? Are there no blacks named John? No whites named Andre? How does this study indicate a clear racial motivation without clarifying the race of the test subjects?
I can't agree with that. Unless you ask the people making the calls, you can only guess what is motivating them.
What does the race of the test subjects have anything to do with anything?
Who cares if the test subjects are black, white, hispanic, whatever. Is it somehow ok for them not to hire black sounding names, because they are white?
Bingo.
yet, it's not irrelevant when looking for a cause outside of anyother reason to blame whitey.
Yet you ignore all the black Johns and White Andres. I'm afraid that i'll have to disagree with you on how convincing the interpretation of the data is.
which is why I brought up my name. Does Leroy sound too white to you? i put it on my resume and still got a job. Now, would you still charge racism after knowing that my employer is a minority owned company that didn't hire a Jeff McWhite in my place?
My point is that you arbitrarily blame racism when cultural business tradition seems a greater culprit.
Again, a white guy with the name Igthuk'yhuk Truman may not get as many call backs as a black guy named George Jones.
Does this say more to you about the RACE of each candidate or their names falling well outside of the first three standard deviations of the group of Average American names?
OR, you are just assuming racism because you are looking for such.
oh rly? You really think the name Shaniqua was popular on the plantation isntead of TRADITIONAL AMERICAN NAMES like ABIGAIL? Nice lunge at an appeal for emotion though.
How do you figure? If a black owned company preferred JOHN over Shabazz wouldn't it burst a few holes in the theory of racism?
and, your source days, specifically, 10 resumes for whites and 15 for blacks. Can you tell me what page of your source you are pulling 33 from?
Put another way, a White job seeker would have to send out at least 10 resumes to receive a single contact from a potential employer. A Black candidate, meanwhile, would have to send out 15--and this in a "soft" economy with a relatively low rate of new job creation.
page 1.
10 vs 15? With no clarification of test subject race? indeed, meager.
Feel free to start talking shit though.. I have a real job and my experience in HR allows me to wade through the the bullshit that others may not even notice.
Racism is still racist even if you want to rationalize a double standard based on history. Again, without comparing THESE results to the same data set from a period of actual rampant discrimination you get no perspective on the significance of your charge of racism.
Indeed, affirmative action IS institutional discrimination against whites. Feel free to assume otherwise.
Whose being the racist now? Is ANDRE inherently black? Is AYISHA a TRADITIONAL AMERICAN NAME? no? check.
according to you. Who, I would charge, is LOOKING for exactly the kind of result that you are waving around here.
I don't see your posted study indicating racism without being a little deeper than assuming that American business is A) white enough to restrict hiring Shaniqua and B) is racist when having affinity for common American names over uncommon names despite the race of both candidate or employer.
It has EVERYTHING to do with the implied RACISM of American business that you are charging is RACIST in it's discrimination against one sample over the other.
It's pretty indicative if a black owned company follows the same pattern as the white owned company when choosing John over Malcolm that racism is not the cause of their choice.
Is it OK? I guess that depends on what you assume is their motivation: racism or the business status quo. Strangely, business also don't accept a daishiki or sombrero on a candidate during the interview. Does this say something about RACISM or Traditional Business Attire?
Shogun, try reading the other link I posted about race and peoples preconceived notions. Blacks aren't immune to seeing other blacks and crossing the street because they think they must be thugs either.
No, thats exactly the point. Blacks discriminating against black names isn't racism any more than blacks not hiring a candidate dressed in a diashiki or sombrero is racism.
It's a business standard that puts more value on FAMILIAR names rather than UNFAMILIAR names.
Much like, and heres where I blow you out of the water, you are told to SELL YOURSELF on a resume businesses follow the same behaviour as any other consumer group that identifies with the familiar.
Shantawgwa being less culturally FAMILIAR than John or Bill. This is why, I think, you avoid all the black Johns and white Andres.
You do realize that, culturally, a person's background is just as much NOT a choice as his name, right?
Ever see a tibettan in a robe chumming it up with anyone dressed in a SUIT from the west? Should an AMERICAN business be forced to allow robes instead of business dress because you are a little too quick with the charge of racism?
Hey dude.. THIS is why I asked the question about your sources initially. Maybe another arrogant, pompous response would be in order next time.
Indeed, and if blacks are just as willing to discriminate as whites then it kind of takes the wind out of comparing John to Andre, eh?
No, you asked because you wanted to jump in without reading the thread first. You should have done so.
No, it really doesn't. It makes the racism even more pervasive.
well, at least you admit that your observation is based on assumptions.
generalizations, sure.. not all generalizations are wholly untrue. a John from HArvard might just have more to offer than a Wa-shanda from the ghetto.
Unless, of course, we can call it affirmative action.
or, wearing a specific business attire, acting "professionally" and speaking well. Not to mention, refraining from reflecting on the business with NECK TATTOOS, GOLD GRILLS and DROOPING PANTS.
But, dude.. I thought you said that you DIDNT assume anything about the motivation of blaming whitey????
it's not always inaccurate either.
Plenty when compared with the BILLS and JOHNS?
Top 10 Names for 2007 Rank Male name Female name
1 Jacob Emily
2 Michael Isabella
3 Ethan Emma
4 Joshua Ava
5 Daniel Madison
6 Christopher Sophia
7 Anthony Olivia
8 William Abigail
9 Matthew Hannah
10 Andrew Elizabeth
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/
Oh hey.. what do you know.. SHANIQUA is not on the list but, ready for it?
ABIGAIL sure the hell is.
not quite THats that. By blindly waving around the charge of racism you really are no better than those you accuse of discrimination.
Well, scroll up. Apparently that name beats out every Shaquanda out there in 2007.
Yet, blacks avoiding "black" names, as you suggest, isn't proven by your evidence. Hell, for all you know blacks AND WHITE companies know that familiar AMERICAN names provide more business opportunities than a sales staff of non-traditional names. Thus, the motivation isn't racially motivated at all.
It's TRUE, eh? Feel free to believe what you want, dude.
trying to snake out of the specific example in your own damn source, eh?
what have I told you before about such scandelous shit, dude. You might wanna review your math, dude.
It was using an average, I just picked one example.
of course you did. In an effort to distort the actua data set of your evidence, no less.
I disagree. But, as long as your observation is based on assumptions it really doesn't matter.
Then why did you even feel the need to bring it up? Feel free to fall back into talking shit, dude. You of all people know that I thrive on it.
of course you don't care. Showing that the sky isn't falling would minimize the relevancy of your accusation.
And, regarding the prerogative of employers whose bottom line depends on who they staff, a meager difference in the chioce of TRADITIONAL names over NON-Traditional names is no more racist than requiring business dress at work.
HA!
yea, OOOk. so, a white kid who loses out to a token statistic ISN'T being discriminated against based soley on race.
sure thing, dude.
uh, can you PROVE that black sulture is "more likely" to name their kid AIYISHA?
'Cause, just a second ago you admitted that you can't prove Latawna was more popular during slavery than anyo ther standard TRADITIONAL name.. But, I look forward to diving into your evidence that blacks are MORE LIKELY to name their kid Ja'Rosha than William.
nice to know that you can stereotype in order to reach a specific conclusion though. This really is how science, especially a soft science like the one you are using as evidence, works.
funny, I don't recall asking you about YOUR "real" job.
Like I said, throw down the gauntlet since you cannot support your position, dude. As far as Im concerned you've just been check mated.
No, I asked so that you had the chance to show your evidence before I did what you hoped no one would do: actually comb though your evidence.
no. The name John is not in danger of being less familair than a jamal anytime soon. I don't care HOW MANY you know personally.
But, you are not stating ANYTHING about an INTERVIEW; only a call back from a resume per your source.
damn, dude. keep up.
Oh, so it's OK to be racist against a Tibettan because they don't apply for jobs as often as blacks? And, if they show up to the interview in a fucking TOGA you are damn skippy they will be turned away. For real, I realize the appeal to emotion seems like it should work better than providing evidence but it is really kinda silly.
so, too, can a name.
ZING!