Which requires more education? Government jobs or Private Sector jobs?

[rdean]

National Institute on Retirement - Out of Balance?

The study provides an original analysis of data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and finds that:

Jobs in the public sector typically require more education than private sector positions. Thus, state and local employees are twice as likely to hold a college degree or higher as compared to private sector employees. Only 23% of private sector employees have completed college as compared to about 48% in the public sector.
Wages and salaries of state and local employees are lower than those for private sector employees with comparable earnings determinants such as education and work experience. State workers typically earn 11% less and local workers 12% less.

Public workers receive less pay, gap widens

The Center for State and Local Government Excellence's president, Elizabeth Kellar, said that there is a "looming workforce crisis" in the public sector, as a wave of retirement and low pay collide, leaving holes in many highly skilled slots.

"Hiring managers told us that, despite the economy, they find it difficult to fill vacancies for highly skilled [public sector] positions such as engineering, environmental science, information technology and health care professionals," said Kellar. "The compensation gap may have something to do with this."

-------------------------------------------

Those jobs aren't filled because half the country thinks education is unneeded, liberal and for snobs.

 

[alan1]

What's yer point?

 

[rdean]

What's yer point?

My point is always the importance of education.

 

[DGS49]

Many government jobs have a virtual, if not mandatory, requirement for a college degree, but the degree need not be in any particular field or major.

Most government jobs requiring a "professional" (small "p") degree, like accounting or engineering, are filled by people who barely graduated and their prospects in the competitive job market are quite limited. So they go to work as government auditors, inspectors, or regulators. Certainly, this is not true in ALL cases, but on average, the quality of accountants, engineers, and scientists in public sector is markedly lower than their counterparts in private industry.

Also consider that so-called "minorities" are more than welcome in the public sector, and they often walk over the threshhold with marginal degrees from "traditionally Black colleges," and from low-ranked state colleges, holding majors in "Ethnic Studies," "Communications," and other such lightweight nonsense.

I wouldn't be too impressed by the fact that public sector employees are more likely to have college degrees than private sector employees. Candidly speaking, it don't mean shit.

 

[Whereisup]

It's not that I am saying that people who don't value education due to its teaching knowledge are inferior people. Large numbers of people are very intelligent and skilled within the anti-intellectual system of ideas, values, etc. they have been taught by their parents, peers, the media, their church, etc.

What I am saying is that those systems within which people are being intelligent are failing to protect the United States.

We need to be making more and better use of knowledge.

On government requirement of a college education, that shows that the government knows that we need to make decisions in ax knowledgeable a way as possible. So this has some effect on the motivations of government workers.

This idea did come from the China of a couple of thousand years ago. China chose as government officials those people who passed difficult tests on Confucian thinking. This was then adapted, with college degrees replacing he tests.

The tests were mainly tests of how to apply Confucian ideas to actual problems and situations. So the student couldn't just memorize Confucian ideas. The student had to figure out how to apply them.

Of course, how much education is needed in either a government or private sector job depends on the job. For example, people who run or inspect nuclear reactors had better have a good university background in nucear engineering.

Jim

 

[Oddball]

What's yer point?

My point is always the importance of education.

Your uneducated posts do a good enough job of that....We didn't need and entire thread to drive the point home.

 

[rdean]

Many government jobs have a virtual, if not mandatory, requirement for a college degree, but the degree need not be in any particular field or major.

Most government jobs requiring a "professional" (small "p") degree, like accounting or engineering, are filled by people who barely graduated and their prospects in the competitive job market are quite limited. So they go to work as government auditors, inspectors, or regulators. Certainly, this is not true in ALL cases, but on average, the quality of accountants, engineers, and scientists in public sector is markedly lower than their counterparts in private industry.

Also consider that so-called "minorities" are more than welcome in the public sector, and they often walk over the threshhold with marginal degrees from "traditionally Black colleges," and from low-ranked state colleges, holding majors in "Ethnic Studies," "Communications," and other such lightweight nonsense.

I wouldn't be too impressed by the fact that public sector employees are more likely to have college degrees than private sector employees. Candidly speaking, it don't mean shit.

People tend to judge by what they are exposed to. You will never see the guy who designs the sewers. They won't see scientists at NASA. They won't see the people making the special paper our money is printed on.
They will see the woman behind the desk at the DMV. They will never see government inspectors checking out Nuclear Power plants.
So because they are only exposed to low skilled workers, they think every government worker is "low skilled".

 

[Avorysuds]

Rtard!

 

[Granny]

Many government jobs have a virtual, if not mandatory, requirement for a college degree, but the degree need not be in any particular field or major.

Most government jobs requiring a "professional" (small "p") degree, like accounting or engineering, are filled by people who barely graduated and their prospects in the competitive job market are quite limited. So they go to work as government auditors, inspectors, or regulators. Certainly, this is not true in ALL cases, but on average, the quality of accountants, engineers, and scientists in public sector is markedly lower than their counterparts in private industry.

Also consider that so-called "minorities" are more than welcome in the public sector, and they often walk over the threshhold with marginal degrees from "traditionally Black colleges," and from low-ranked state colleges, holding majors in "Ethnic Studies," "Communications," and other such lightweight nonsense.

I wouldn't be too impressed by the fact that public sector employees are more likely to have college degrees than private sector employees. Candidly speaking, it don't mean shit.

People tend to judge by what they are exposed to. You will never see the guy who designs the sewers. They won't see scientists at NASA. They won't see the people making the special paper our money is printed on.
They will see the woman behind the desk at the DMV. They will never see government inspectors checking out Nuclear Power plants.
So because they are only exposed to low skilled workers, they think every government worker is "low skilled".

You're right that we don't always see the very well educated government employees unless, of course, we happen to be working closely with those employees; however, there's a hell of a lot of truth to the belief that government employees are about as useful as a wet tissue. I've worked in both worlds and government employees just cannot cut it in the private sector. Private sector low level employees (on the secretarial/clerical level) have to be able to adapt, change direction on a dime, make on the spot decisions, be available without notice for overtime hours, be mind readers and have to know their bosses well enough to know what they want without being told. My government experience was that public employees are incapable of making decisions, go into panic mode if they have more than 3 pieces of paper on their desk (workload too heavy), are generally lazy, won't answer phones until after 8:01 am and quit answering at about 4:20 pm - no chance of answering a phone at 4:28pm because they might have to stay a couple minutes late. The waste of paper, time, and man power was more than I could stand - I had to get back in the private sector.

 

[Sunshine]

National Institute on Retirement - Out of Balance?

The study provides an original analysis of data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and finds that:

Jobs in the public sector typically require more education than private sector positions. Thus, state and local employees are twice as likely to hold a college degree or higher as compared to private sector employees. Only 23% of private sector employees have completed college as compared to about 48% in the public sector.
Wages and salaries of state and local employees are lower than those for private sector employees with comparable earnings determinants such as education and work experience. State workers typically earn 11% less and local workers 12% less.

Public workers receive less pay, gap widens

The Center for State and Local Government Excellence's president, Elizabeth Kellar, said that there is a "looming workforce crisis" in the public sector, as a wave of retirement and low pay collide, leaving holes in many highly skilled slots.

"Hiring managers told us that, despite the economy, they find it difficult to fill vacancies for highly skilled [public sector] positions such as engineering, environmental science, information technology and health care professionals," said Kellar. "The compensation gap may have something to do with this."

-------------------------------------------

Those jobs aren't filled because half the country thinks education is unneeded, liberal and for snobs.

What a dumb last sentence after a recent USMB poll showed that conservatives on here had more education than libs. Education for a doctor, nurse, or NP is the same in both sectors. But in the public sector the pay is not competitive. Doctors, nurses, and NP in the VA are Title 38 employees. That means from day one they get 5 weeks paid vacation in addition to their 2 weeks sick leave, and 10 paid holidays. Considering that, and considering the lack of overhead for the public sector health care professionals, their net is probably pretty close. Last time I saw my GYN we talked about that. Her gross was considerably higher than mine. But by the time she meets her overhead, she wasn't taking home any more than I was. It's all relative. And it's based on what you want. Do you want to be able to go home and forget it, no night call, etc. or do you want to be self employed.

If half the country thinks education is unneeded, that must be the 47% that considers themselves victims and lives off the taxes I pay. I don't know of any particular qualifications to do that.

 

[Sunshine]

Many government jobs have a virtual, if not mandatory, requirement for a college degree, but the degree need not be in any particular field or major.

Most government jobs requiring a "professional" (small "p") degree, like accounting or engineering, are filled by people who barely graduated and their prospects in the competitive job market are quite limited. So they go to work as government auditors, inspectors, or regulators. Certainly, this is not true in ALL cases, but on average, the quality of accountants, engineers, and scientists in public sector is markedly lower than their counterparts in private industry.

Also consider that so-called "minorities" are more than welcome in the public sector, and they often walk over the threshhold with marginal degrees from "traditionally Black colleges," and from low-ranked state colleges, holding majors in "Ethnic Studies," "Communications," and other such lightweight nonsense.

I wouldn't be too impressed by the fact that public sector employees are more likely to have college degrees than private sector employees. Candidly speaking, it don't mean shit.

Except in rdummy's world of tinfoil hats.

 

[BobPlumb]

I expect that public school teachers are grouped into government jobs. This results in a large percentage of the government jobs that require college degree.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

National Institute on Retirement - Out of Balance?

The study provides an original analysis of data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and finds that:

Jobs in the public sector typically require more education than private sector positions. Thus, state and local employees are twice as likely to hold a college degree or higher as compared to private sector employees. Only 23% of private sector employees have completed college as compared to about 48% in the public sector.
Wages and salaries of state and local employees are lower than those for private sector employees with comparable earnings determinants such as education and work experience. State workers typically earn 11% less and local workers 12% less.

Public workers receive less pay, gap widens

The Center for State and Local Government Excellence's president, Elizabeth Kellar, said that there is a "looming workforce crisis" in the public sector, as a wave of retirement and low pay collide, leaving holes in many highly skilled slots.

"Hiring managers told us that, despite the economy, they find it difficult to fill vacancies for highly skilled [public sector] positions such as engineering, environmental science, information technology and health care professionals," said Kellar. "The compensation gap may have something to do with this."

-------------------------------------------

Those jobs aren't filled because half the country thinks education is unneeded, liberal and for snobs.

I guess that would depend on what you mean by require.

For example, anyone in the public sector that happens to be any good gets a higher paying job in the private sector, which actually leaves the people who can't get good jobs working for the government.

The solution to this is obvious, get rid of the government.

 

[DGS49]

I spent three years in the Army, and worked in procurement for Department of Defense for 5 years.

Most of my colleagues had college degrees at the time, though I did not - I scored in the 98th percentile on the aptitude test (PACE) and, being a veteran, they hired me very reluctantly, assuming that a College Graduate with a degree in political science from bullshit U would be more capable than I was.

Because of my position I frequently saw government accountants (auditors) and engineers interfacing with their counterparts in the private companies who were our contractors. Rarely was a government guy able to "hold his own" in discussions and negotiations. Frequently, the contractors got screwed because the procurement officers were resentful and envious of the professionals on the other side of the table.

as a semi-humorour footnote, the Carter Administration was VERY unhappy with the Government's aptitude test because Blacks and Hispanics could never score high enough to get consideration for a position. His administrator for the Office of Personnel Management decreed that the test was dead - until they could develop one that was structured so that "minorities" would "pass" in the same proportion as caucasians. I laughed my ass off. The test, as described, as given up as an impossible task a few years later, and the Feds then started evaluating applicants purely on grades in college, which REWARDED you for going to a mediocre school and graduating with honors. Nice.

My co-workers were chronically lazy. No one worked a MINUTE of voluntary overtime in the 5 years I was there, despite the fact that we were considered "professionals." I saw people stand up and leave meetings when it was their quitting time (we were on "felex-time"). My whole office religiously look a 1/2 hour break - in the cafeteria - every morning at 9:30 and again at 2pm, something I have never seen in the private sector.

And yet they constantly talked about how busy and productive they were.

Just one office, so I shouldn't make assumptions, but...

 

[Stephanie]

I worked for the guberment just out of high school as a keypunch operator.....and seeing the different types of jobs in government , not many of the jobs need or are required to have college educations...

rdean doesn't live in reality...

 

[rdean]

I worked for the guberment just out of high school as a keypunch operator.....and seeing the different types of jobs in government , not many of the jobs need or are required to have college educations...

rdean doesn't live in reality...

As a "keypunch operator", what "different types" of government jobs did you see? Janitor? Switchboard?

 

[rdean]

National Institute on Retirement - Out of Balance?

The study provides an original analysis of data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and finds that:

Jobs in the public sector typically require more education than private sector positions. Thus, state and local employees are twice as likely to hold a college degree or higher as compared to private sector employees. Only 23% of private sector employees have completed college as compared to about 48% in the public sector.
Wages and salaries of state and local employees are lower than those for private sector employees with comparable earnings determinants such as education and work experience. State workers typically earn 11% less and local workers 12% less.

Public workers receive less pay, gap widens

The Center for State and Local Government Excellence's president, Elizabeth Kellar, said that there is a "looming workforce crisis" in the public sector, as a wave of retirement and low pay collide, leaving holes in many highly skilled slots.

"Hiring managers told us that, despite the economy, they find it difficult to fill vacancies for highly skilled [public sector] positions such as engineering, environmental science, information technology and health care professionals," said Kellar. "The compensation gap may have something to do with this."

-------------------------------------------

Those jobs aren't filled because half the country thinks education is unneeded, liberal and for snobs.

What a dumb last sentence after a recent USMB poll showed that conservatives on here had more education than libs. Education for a doctor, nurse, or NP is the same in both sectors. But in the public sector the pay is not competitive. Doctors, nurses, and NP in the VA are Title 38 employees. That means from day one they get 5 weeks paid vacation in addition to their 2 weeks sick leave, and 10 paid holidays. Considering that, and considering the lack of overhead for the public sector health care professionals, their net is probably pretty close. Last time I saw my GYN we talked about that. Her gross was considerably higher than mine. But by the time she meets her overhead, she wasn't taking home any more than I was. It's all relative. And it's based on what you want. Do you want to be able to go home and forget it, no night call, etc. or do you want to be self employed.

If half the country thinks education is unneeded, that must be the 47% that considers themselves victims and lives off the taxes I pay. I don't know of any particular qualifications to do that.

Depends on what you call "education". To Republicans a BS in Bible Study is "education". To others, it's simply "BS".

 

[Stephanie]

I worked for the guberment just out of high school as a keypunch operator.....and seeing the different types of jobs in government , not many of the jobs need or are required to have college educations...

rdean doesn't live in reality...

As a "keypunch operator", what "different types" of government jobs did you see? Janitor? Switchboard?

like I said, reality and rdean don't go hand in hand

 

[rdean]

Many government jobs have a virtual, if not mandatory, requirement for a college degree, but the degree need not be in any particular field or major.

Most government jobs requiring a "professional" (small "p") degree, like accounting or engineering, are filled by people who barely graduated and their prospects in the competitive job market are quite limited. So they go to work as government auditors, inspectors, or regulators. Certainly, this is not true in ALL cases, but on average, the quality of accountants, engineers, and scientists in public sector is markedly lower than their counterparts in private industry.

Also consider that so-called "minorities" are more than welcome in the public sector, and they often walk over the threshhold with marginal degrees from "traditionally Black colleges," and from low-ranked state colleges, holding majors in "Ethnic Studies," "Communications," and other such lightweight nonsense.

I wouldn't be too impressed by the fact that public sector employees are more likely to have college degrees than private sector employees. Candidly speaking, it don't mean shit.

People tend to judge by what they are exposed to. You will never see the guy who designs the sewers. They won't see scientists at NASA. They won't see the people making the special paper our money is printed on.
They will see the woman behind the desk at the DMV. They will never see government inspectors checking out Nuclear Power plants.
So because they are only exposed to low skilled workers, they think every government worker is "low skilled".

You're right that we don't always see the very well educated government employees unless, of course, we happen to be working closely with those employees; however, there's a hell of a lot of truth to the belief that government employees are about as useful as a wet tissue. I've worked in both worlds and government employees just cannot cut it in the private sector. Private sector low level employees (on the secretarial/clerical level) have to be able to adapt, change direction on a dime, make on the spot decisions, be available without notice for overtime hours, be mind readers and have to know their bosses well enough to know what they want without being told. My government experience was that public employees are incapable of making decisions, go into panic mode if they have more than 3 pieces of paper on their desk (workload too heavy), are generally lazy, won't answer phones until after 8:01 am and quit answering at about 4:20 pm - no chance of answering a phone at 4:28pm because they might have to stay a couple minutes late. The waste of paper, time, and man power was more than I could stand - I had to get back in the private sector.

Strange. Some years ago, I worked for a company that sold a cone calorimeter to NASA.

Here is what it looked like:

Sadly, it seems there was a fire inside one of the space capsules. Astronauts died. The atmosphere at the time was O2 enriched. In such an environment, even flammable materials can become explosive. The purpose of the calorimeter was to test materials for flammability, but it also has various gas analyzers attached. They aren't just worried about the materials burning, but also the type of toxic gas released. If the fire doesn't get you, the fumes will.

My job was to document the old one and help install the new one. I know, documenting the old one doesn't seem to make sense, but it's a long detailed explanation.
Anyway, I worked with several scientists that were working there. And, over the few weeks I was there, some swooped in and took us off to various, non classified tests they were conducting. Seems guys who live out in the desert are desperate to show off what they have been doing to someone.
The majority came from somewhere else. And I mean every where some where else. Guys that smart are one in a million. The guy in charge of the area I was at was from Transylvania and his name was actually "Vlad".
The point is, they sure didn't look lazy to me. And this goes back to the FACT that so few Republicans are in science. They don't have anyone they trust to counter the bullshit they spew about education, science, and scientists.

 

[rdean]

I worked for the guberment just out of high school as a keypunch operator.....and seeing the different types of jobs in government , not many of the jobs need or are required to have college educations...

rdean doesn't live in reality...

As a "keypunch operator", what "different types" of government jobs did you see? Janitor? Switchboard?

like I said, reality and rdean don't go hand in hand

So you don't know? Got it!