Where are the basics of military science described?

[rupol2000]

Oh FFS. I did nine years in the Army. I knew we were going to lose in Afghanistan in 2008. What would you do that would give us a victory?

There was a victory, already in '14 there was an end to the control of terrorists over the territory, they only hid there in the cracks. The Taliban didn't control anything there.

 

[eagle1462010]

When there was a normal government in the country, they finished with Hussein in one day. This was just a real military operation, not a presence.

Saddam was contained. An Asshole but contained. We screwed with the balance of Shiite and Sunni by doing that. The Sunni were ISIS.......and in yemen the Shiites go to War with Saudi Arabia.

The middle east is a shithole. Anyone wanting prolonged combat there is an idiot.

 

[rupol2000]

Saddam was contained. An Asshole but contained. We screwed with the balance of Shiite and Sunni by doing that. The Sunni were ISIS.......and in yemen the Shiites go to War with Saudi Arabia.

The middle east is a shithole. Anyone wanting prolonged combat there is an idiot.

No, just because then there was an adequate right-wing policy, and not behind-the-scenes intrigues and betrayal. The USA just came and showed what they are capable of militarily and who is the boss. If they did it in Afghanistan, it would be the same. The Taliban would simply lay down their arms in a week.

 

[rupol2000]

The United States was present in Afghanistan even before the Army entered there. Since the beginning of the 80s, they have supported the Northern Alliance, and supplied weapons there, this was directed against the Pashtuns and the USSR army. And that was enough, the Northern Alliance actually won.

 

[eagle1462010]

The United States was present in Afghanistan even before the Army entered there. Since the beginning of the 80s, they have supported the Northern Alliance, and supplied weapons there, this was directed against the Pashtuns and the USSR army. And that was enough, the Northern Alliance actually won.

I served then. I'm aware of the history. That was covert ops and not sending in Divisions as we did since 2001

 

[rupol2000]

I served then. I'm aware of the history. That was covert ops and not sending in Divisions as we did since 2001

What's the difference, the point is that the United States did not fall on its knees in front of terrorists and communists, but defeated them

 

[rupol2000]

What was the point in the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan? The Taliban did not control Afghanistan. It was just giving away for free what was won.

 

[rupol2000]

And the situation went back to the early 80s. Massoud's son holds the Panjshir in an attempt to revive the Northern Alliance. Only now there is no US aid, what can he do alone?

 

[eagle1462010]

What's the difference, the point is that the United States did not fall on its knees in front of terrorists and communists, but defeated them

The USSR did leave. Especially when their helicopters started getting STUNG.......pun intended.

Doesn't change that endless wars are not in our best interest.

 

[SavannahMann]

There was a victory, already in '14 there was an end to the control of terrorists over the territory, they only hid there in the cracks. The Taliban didn't control anything there.

They were in every village and every hamlet.

They were across the border in Pakistan. Learning. Waiting. Gathering strength.

Just like in Vietnam. They were right under our noses. They were across the border. Safe and untouchable.

 

[SavannahMann]

I am probably wasting my time. But I will write what victory in Afghanistan would have taken.

At least 100 years.

John McCain said it during the campaign in 2008. I thought he was right then. And I knew we would never invest the time and money it would take.

It was never about killing Jihadists. It was about eliminating them through social change.

Look at what happened as we left. Schools for girls shut down. Womens rights eliminated. Female athletes beheaded.

Twenty years of half assed effort undone in a month.

It would have taken a century to turn them from a religious based society to a secular one. One where laws and rights took precedence in the minds of the people. Then the Jihadists would have found few supporters and fewer still volunteers.

We were never going to build a country. We were going to prop up the locals. Cheaply. And hope that changes followed.

We were not nation building. We never gave it a shot.

So Afghanistan fell almost faster than we could drive out. The Army we had spent two decades training collapsed in minutes. Because it was never about security or training. It was about religion and social norms. And those take a long time to change. The change takes generations. Each subsequent generation being more liberal. More educated than the generation before.

A century. At least.

 

[rupol2000]

Safe and untouchable.

Were you not allowed to fight them? Why?

 

[rupol2000]

It would have taken a century to turn them from a religious based society to a secular one

This was never the real goal. This was directed against the Pashtun occupation of the peoples of the former Turkestan and the genocide of the Hazaras.

 

[SavannahMann]

This was never the real goal. This was directed against the Pashtun occupation of the peoples of the former Turkestan and the genocide of the Hazaras.

If you don’t do the nation building, then ten seconds after you leave, they revert. They tolerate you as an occupier that they can’t remove, but they’ll wait you out.

How fast did the Taliban take the territory? Patton would have been envious. But hey, we can win somehow without actually dragging them into the modern world. Somehow.

 

[rupol2000]

If you don’t do the nation building, then ten seconds after you leave, they revert. They tolerate you as an occupier that they can’t remove, but they’ll wait you out.

There was already a separate state in the 90s. They have already gained independence

 

[rupol2000]

Islamic State of Afghanistan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SavannahMann]

There was already a separate state in the 90s. They have already gained independence

Ok, earlier in the thread you announced we had already one, but the Liberals and Leftists let the Terrorists and Taliban back into the country. Now, you are saying we never did anything, like winning. I think you are just opposed to anything. You will take the contrarian view.

Pathetic really. You have no opinion other than everyone is wrong. Just wrong.

 

[rupol2000]

Ok, earlier in the thread you announced we had already one, but the Liberals and Leftists let the Terrorists and Taliban back into the country. Now, you are saying we never did anything, like winning. I think you are just opposed to anything. You will take the contrarian view.

Pathetic really. You have no opinion other than everyone is wrong. Just wrong

Did I say that the Right was wrong in helping the peoples of the Northern Alliance to defend their freedoms? You mumble something incomprehensible.

The left was not wrong; it betrayed the American people and the Northern Alliance. This is not a mistake, but a deliberate evil

 

[rupol2000]

Now, you are saying we never did anything, like winning

Where did I say that? The Northern Alliance won then thanks to the support of the United States, do not attribute to me what I did not say.

 

[toobfreak]

Why?

That's a really stupid question that shows you are too lazy to think and I don't normally respond to such tripe, but, how do you expect the police to functions as a body of the people acting in their defense and protection FROM a corrupt government when they are a PART of the very government you are seeking protection from?