When Capitalism Is Kept Out Of Environmentalism...a Toxic Landscape...

[2aguy]

This is the thing I don't get about the religious believers in man made global warming and the other issues with the environment...have they been to poor countries....have they been to really socialist countries like the former soviet union and communist chian? If they had then they would see that government is not the answer for a clean environment...capitalism is...

Capitalism Is Clean er National Review Online

Under a system that imposed heavy government regimentation upon the economy, direct government ownership of the “commanding heights” of the economy (and the commanded heights, too), a socialist vision of property, etc., the environmental results were nothing short of catastrophic. Setting aside the direct human costs of socialist environmental policy in the twentieth century — the famines, the deformations, the horrific birth defects — socialism was a disaster from the purely environmental point of view, too.

Consider the Aral Sea disaster, in which one of the world’s largest lakes was converted into a toxic desert, with the husks of ships still floating upon the sand dunes — not by accident, but as a matter of government policy, implemented not by the famous monster Stalin, but by Nikita Khrushchev, by comparison a reformer.

 

[Steven_R]

The article implies that those huge environmental disasters only come from socialist policies and governments and good capitalists would never take shortcuts and do things like strip mining and dumping of toxic waste.

I hate socialism as much as the next guy, but the simple fact is things like the EPA and environmental regulations were set up because big businesses were just dumping anything and everything in the air, water, and ground rather than cleaning it up because of the expense involved, or clear cutting forests and not replanting the trees which led to massive erosion, or doing stuff like building poor dams that gave way to flooding like in the Buffalo Creek Disaster.

I'm not for the EPA strangling business or being used to push radical agendas, but I can see the need for the states and DC to set up oversight when it came to environmental policies. That isn't to say there can't be improvements in execution and long term planning, but we shouldn't pretend that there weren't problems with board rooms just saying "fuck the environment. Dumping is cheaper." There were just too many Randian heroes not acting as good stewards of their resources.

 

[2aguy]

because big businesses were just dumping anything and everything in the air, water, and ground rather than cleaning it up because of the expense involved,

Which was violating the property rights of other people...and hence had to be addressed in a capitalist system...capitalism needs the rule of law, democracy and free markets...and the rule of law includes contracts and respect of private property...so the mess had to be cleaned up and the criminals punished...and it was cleaned up...wasn't it...of course you need a police force for this stuff...but the government is referee..not master...

And which form of government addressed the problem faster? Russia, China, or the U.S.? Which country still has horrible pollution....?

I'll take captialsim to fix these problems any day of the week....trying to trust greedy, corrupt politicians and clock punching bureaucrats to do it is a recipe for disaster...

 

[mamooth]

When someone calls for a communist dictatorship to be implemented in the USA, I suppose the OP will have a point.