What's wrong with for profit healthcare

[dilloduck]

Do you read the newspaper at all?

Millions of children were dying of malaria, and no one was doing anything about it, even though it would cost very little to prevent.....probably a miniscule percentage of our bloated defense budget.

So do you know who stepped into the breach? Bill Gates.

His nonprofit has taken up the cause of malaria because no one else was willing to spend the money to save two million children. But hey, those bombs we're dropping in the Middle East cost a lot of money, right?

I thought the CIA was trying to kill all the Africans so we could steal all of their resources. Why waste malaria medicine on them ?

 

[Chris]

I thought the CIA was trying to kill all the Africans so we could steal all of their resources. Why waste malaria medicine on them ?

The one thing Bush has done right was helping Africa.

I guess even a blind pig will find an acorn, if he roots around enough!

 

[Bern80]

Oh yeah! I been there and have seen it - but to be totally honest the past couple of years have been the worst. Of coarse ... declining health makes you see more than when you are young, and completely healthy, too.

Actually I had cancer when I was four and would suspect that I have taken more drugs and spent more time in a hospital bed before I was in Kindergarten then most wll in their whole lives.

I am acutely aware of what a pain in the ass it is to have to be on drugs that have no generics, to have to wait two months to see a specialist for something, etc. I know more than most the state of our health care system.

I am oppossed to government run healthcare because I don't believe we can sustain the quality of acutal care we have and and make things dirt cheap for people.

 

[jreeves]

The one thing Bush has done right was helping Africa.

I guess even a blind pig will find an acorn, if he roots around enough!

You completely ignore my post about a for profit company developing a cancer vaccination. I guess that doesn't go along with your conclusion that for profit companies don't want to prevent disease only treat it huh?

 

[Chris]

You completely ignore my post about a for profit company developing a cancer vaccination. I guess that doesn't go along with your conclusion that for profit companies don't want to prevent disease only treat it huh?

That is nice.

We could prevent cancer for pennies a day. But like I said, there's no money in it. There's plenty of money in a vaccine, however.

 

[jreeves]

That is nice.

We could prevent cancer for pennies a day. But like I said, there's no money in it. There's plenty of money in a vaccine, however.

Do you admit you are wrong then? When you said that for profit medical companies are not interested in preventing disease or do you wish to distract from your orginal comment that;

"No, I'm saying we could prevent cancer right now, but there is no money in it, so it doesn't happen."
"Shouldn't the purpose of a healthcare system be to prevent disease rather than making money off of sick people?"
But it is the goal of all healthcare, is it not?

"No preventative for cancer. Do you know why? Because there is no money in it. All the money is in treating cancer after people get it."

Now I will wait for you to admit you didn't know what the hell you were talking about.....

 

[Chris]

Do you admit you are wrong then? When you said that for profit medical companies are not interested in preventing disease or do you wish to distract from your orginal comment that;

"No, I'm saying we could prevent cancer right now, but there is no money in it, so it doesn't happen."
"Shouldn't the purpose of a healthcare system be to prevent disease rather than making money off of sick people?"
But it is the goal of all healthcare, is it not?

"No preventative for cancer. Do you know why? Because there is no money in it. All the money is in treating cancer after people get it."

Now I will wait for you to admit you didn't know what the hell you were talking about.....

No, the goal of all healthcare companies is to maximize profits.

 

[jreeves]

No, the goal of all healthcare companies is to maximize profits.

Lmao...hack everyone sees you for what you are.

 

[Chris]

Lmao...hack everyone sees you for what you are.

If our healthcare system was focused on prevention instead of profits, we would be much better off.

But higher and higher our healthcare costs grow, and we aren't any better off than we were before. Now costs are 15% of GDP, and that percentage will grow as the population ages.

It is very similar to the oil dependence problem. The solutions are easy and well known, but the powerful corporate lobbyists prevent them from being implemented.

 

[jreeves]

If our healthcare system was focused on prevention instead of profits, we would be much better off.

But higher and higher our healthcare costs grow, and we aren't any better off than we were before. Now costs are 15% of GDP, and that percentage will grow as the population ages.

It is very similar to the oil dependence problem. The solutions are easy and well known, but the powerful corporate lobbyists prevent them from being implemented.

I will ignore your post completely unless you admit when you said that, for profit companies don't prevent disease they only treat it because there is no money in it is completely wrong? I proved that a for profit company was developing a vaccine for cancer, which your response was well, there is money in vaccines. You don't understand how your earlier responses conflict in reality with each other? Or are you just going to recite over and over Democratic talking points?

 

[Chris]

I will ignore your post completely unless you admit when you said that, for profit companies don't prevent disease they only treat it because there is no money in it is completely wrong? I proved that a for profit company was developing a vaccine for cancer, which your response was well, there is money in vaccines. You don't understand how your earlier responses conflict in reality with each other? Or are you just going to recite over and over Democratic talking points?

Democratic talking points? We are talking about preventing disease. For profit companies are focused on making a profit not preventing disease.

Most of the preventions are fairly cheap and related to nutritional therapy rather than drugs. But there is much more money in drugs than nutritional therapy. Why? Because food cannot be patented.

The French have very little heart disease even though they eat rich food and smoke like chimneys. Scientists call this the "French Paradox." When scientists at Harvard Medical School( a non profit, gasp!) studied this, they decided that a substance in red wine called Resveratrol was part of the reason. When they fed rats Resveratrol and a junk food diet, the rats got fat, but they didn't get heart disease. Likewise another test study found that rats who took Resveratrol doubled their stamina. Nice, huh?

But you won't find any doctors prescribing Resveratrol because it's a nutrient, not a drug, and doctors are not required to take a single hour of nutrition in medical school.

 

[jreeves]

Democratic talking points? We are talking about preventing disease. For profit companies are focused on making a profit not preventing disease.

Most of the preventions are fairly cheap and related to nutritional therapy rather than drugs. But there is much more money in drugs than nutritional therapy. Why? Because food cannot be patented.

The French have very little heart disease even though they eat rich food and smoke like chimneys. Scientists call this the "French Paradox." When scientists at Harvard Medical School( a non profit, gasp!) studied this, they decided that a substance in red wine called Resveratrol was part of the reason. When they fed rats Resveratrol and a junk food diet, the rats got fat, but they didn't get heart disease. Likewise another test study found that rats who took Resveratrol doubled their stamina. Nice, huh?

But you won't find any doctors prescribing Resveratrol because it's a nutrient, not a drug, and doctors are not required to take a single hour of nutrition in medical school.

So vaccines don't prevent disease? Should I post the benefits of the small pox, Rubella, or other such vaccines?

 

[Chris]

So vaccines don't prevent disease? Should I post the benefits of the small pox, Rubella, or other such vaccines?

Vaccines prevent disease, but there's been a shortage of them in recent years because the for profit pharmas don't want to make them. In fact the U.S. has been buying them from an English manufacturer. Damn socialists!

 

[jreeves]

Vaccines prevent disease, but there's been a shortage of them in recent years because the for profit pharmas don't want to make them. In fact the U.S. has been buying them from an English manufacturer. Damn socialists!

So vaccines do prevent disease, which you stated US for profit companies don't develop because there is no money involved, correct?

 

[Diuretic]

Question is how do you fix it?

My main concerns with a single payer, expecially when that single payer is the government are

1) That the quality of acutal care will decrease

2) It will be horribily inefficient since government has shown it does nothing efficiently

3) people will wait longer based on on supply/demand principles.

4) It certainly won't encourage people to be healthier as there will be no longer a direct financial insentive to be healthy.

My point is at this stage there really is no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water. I believe there is a solution to get healthcare to people that can't afford it without 1)taking a away a good from those that can 2) creating an even greater tax burden.

If you were shown evidence that by and large allays your fears would you be prepared to discuss it rather than dismiss it out of hand?

 

[Diuretic]

We have high healthcare costs and government is the largest insurer in this nation. Doesn't that tell you everything right there?

I don't want to trust my healthcare to government who has spent itself in debt to the tune of 9 trillion dollars, who has admitted that it's entitlement programs are fiscally unsustainable. If you want to that's your choice, I would rather still live with my freedoms, thank you.

You have an incompetent Administration in the White House so I understand your fears

But that doesn't invalidate the concept of universal health care.

 

[Diuretic]

1. BS not in the US
2. More BS......by a report heavily skewed toward healthcare costs
3. Even more BS you mean if we tax everyone into the poor house

Nope, the points were correct.

 

[Diuretic]

As I have pointed out over and over, that link you keep putting up that rates health care systems leans towards access to health care as the most important factor in a high rating. If you rated systems on quality of care alone, the US would rate much higher. As they saying goes. The US has the best health care MONEY can buy.

But the US doesn't rate does it? It's like arguing that because thousands of Americans can afford multi-million dollar mansions that US housing is in the finest in the world.

 

[Diuretic]

and again there is so much more to medicine than cancer. You're still not gettin the big picture.

How do you know no for profit company is working on malaria? Did ya check them all. I imagine you don't have shit to back any of this up do you?

Malaria - Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

Big picture stuff.

 

[Bern80]

If our healthcare system was focused on prevention instead of profits, we would be much better off.

But higher and higher our healthcare costs grow, and we aren't any better off than we were before. Now costs are 15% of GDP, and that percentage will grow as the population ages.

It is very similar to the oil dependence problem. The solutions are easy and well known, but the powerful corporate lobbyists prevent them from being implemented.

Dude if you can't even get the basics down you need to step away from the conversatin. The purpose of any private business is to make a profit docotrs and hospitals are no exception. If they don't, every body suffers. If hospitals and physicians don't turn a profit have less ability to help people. How does a company grow and reinvest in itself if it doesn't turn a profit?