What's a liberal?

[rtwngAvngr]

He changed his name to leave the record of his lib ass getting beaten into submission behind. :funnyface

 

[Nuc]

He changed his name to leave the record of his lib ass getting beaten into submission behind. :funnyface

From perusing some of your other threads looks like your right wing ass has been getting a pounding lately!
:duh3: :finger: :69:

 

[acludem]

Arnold Schwarzeneggar is a liberal on social issues, so is Rudy Giuliani. I find absolute laughable, but equally sad your attempts to paint everyone who is to the left of Mussolini as a socialist. I said that liberals supported some government controls on the economy to ensure a level playing field for all businesses to compete on, fascists support giving the largest, wealthiest corporations complete control over the economy, something the Republican Part has been trying to do for years. Liberals do not seek a planned economy, we don't seek government ownership of utilities and businesses. That's what socialism is, since most of you seem to have failed basic economics 101. As for the church and state issue, I've been involved in public events involving my religious group. People have every right to practice their religion publically, conservatives simply want to use the power of government to force their religion on everyone, liberals support allowing everyone to practice their own religion without interference or fear of retribution. As for Bush and Cheney, they are both pretty far to the right. There are moderate Republicans, Arlen Specter, Lincoln Chaffee, et al, but most of you would call them socialists.

I am a proud American, and the greatest threat to freedom in this country is the religious right wing who seeks to turn our free nation into a Taliban style theocracy.

acludem

 

[Avatar4321]

Arnold Schwarzeneggar is a liberal on social issues, so is Rudy Giuliani. I find absolute laughable, but equally sad your attempts to paint everyone who is to the left of Mussolini as a socialist. I said that liberals supported some government controls on the economy to ensure a level playing field for all businesses to compete on, fascists support giving the largest, wealthiest corporations complete control over the economy, something the Republican Part has been trying to do for years. Liberals do not seek a planned economy, we don't seek government ownership of utilities and businesses. That's what socialism is, since most of you seem to have failed basic economics 101. As for the church and state issue, I've been involved in public events involving my religious group. People have every right to practice their religion publically, conservatives simply want to use the power of government to force their religion on everyone, liberals support allowing everyone to practice their own religion without interference or fear of retribution. As for Bush and Cheney, they are both pretty far to the right. There are moderate Republicans, Arlen Specter, Lincoln Chaffee, et al, but most of you would call them socialists.

I am a proud American, and the greatest threat to freedom in this country is the religious right wing who seeks to turn our free nation into a Taliban style theocracy.

acludem

Again you freaking idiot, Fascists had the government control the companies. They nationalized everything they could. This is the complete opposite of what conservatives believe in. We believe that government should be involved in business as little as possible.

The sad part is, the secular religion you celebrate has been responsible for far more deaths than any religion in history. The socialist dream is impossible because Marx had no freakin idea what he was talking about.

 

[ProudDem]

Arnold Schwarzeneggar is a liberal on social issues, so is Rudy Giuliani. I find absolute laughable, but equally sad your attempts to paint everyone who is to the left of Mussolini as a socialist. I said that liberals supported some government controls on the economy to ensure a level playing field for all businesses to compete on, fascists support giving the largest, wealthiest corporations complete control over the economy, something the Republican Part has been trying to do for years. Liberals do not seek a planned economy, we don't seek government ownership of utilities and businesses. That's what socialism is, since most of you seem to have failed basic economics 101. As for the church and state issue, I've been involved in public events involving my religious group. People have every right to practice their religion publically, conservatives simply want to use the power of government to force their religion on everyone, liberals support allowing everyone to practice their own religion without interference or fear of retribution. As for Bush and Cheney, they are both pretty far to the right. There are moderate Republicans, Arlen Specter, Lincoln Chaffee, et al, but most of you would call them socialists.

I am a proud American, and the greatest threat to freedom in this country is the religious right wing who seeks to turn our free nation into a Taliban style theocracy.

acludem

acludem, I totally agree with you. The answers that this poll provided were pretty ridiculous and show someone who is immature, IMO.

 

[Nuc]

acludem, I totally agree with you. The answers that this poll provided were pretty ridiculous and show someone who is immature, IMO.

Let me clue you in on something I think everyone else caught on to. The poll answers were intentionally ridiculous to protest how some people on this board scream "liberal" as soon as they hear an idea that is actually moderate or sometimes even a bit to the right. Not everyone, but a vocal minority.

Maybe they were right when they said liberals don't have a sense of humor.

 

[ProudDem]

Let me clue you in on something I think everyone else caught on to. The poll answers were intentionally ridiculous to protest how some people on this board scream "liberal" as soon as they hear an idea that is actually moderate or sometimes even a bit to the right. Not everyone, but a vocal minority.

Maybe they were right when they said liberals don't have a sense of humor.

Okay. Sorry if I insulted you. BTW, I have a fantastic sense of humor.

 

[Nuc]

Okay. Sorry if I insulted you. BTW, I have a fantastic sense of humor.

No offense taken, it's hard to read some things accurately on the internet.

 

[ProudDem]

No offense taken, it's hard to read some things accurately on the internet.

You know, I failed to pay attention to your initial post where you explained the reason for the poll. My bad.

You're not a liberal, but are you a democrat?

 

[Said1]

You know, I failed to pay attention to your initial post where you explained the reason for the poll. My bad.

You're not a liberal, but are you a democrat?

Neither. He's NUCULAR......so watch out.

 

[Nuc]

You know, I failed to pay attention to your initial post where you explained the reason for the poll. My bad.

You're not a liberal, but are you a democrat?

I think I'm liberal on certain points, but conservative on others. My opinions on certain issues have evolved over the years, death penalty for example. I don't affiliate myself with any political party, in part because I've lived in different parts of the country where Democrat/Republican have different connotations. I just vote my conscience. If I had to register as one or the other it would be Democrat. The reason is, I disagree with both parties on certain issues. But the issues where I disagree with Republicans on piss me off more than the issues I disagree with Democrats on. I think both parties have lost track of their historic legacies in favor of short term gain. On the other hand if the Democrats continue their poor decision making and losing ways I might become a Republican as a protest. I'm also a Buddhist and you know Buddha said be careful who you associate with. Better to travel alone than with fools. The Democrats have not only lost track of their ideals, but also have been choosing paths that seem designed to lose (at least presidential) elections. What's the point?

 

[ProudDem]

I think I'm liberal on certain points, but conservative on others. My opinions on certain issues have evolved over the years, death penalty for example. I don't affiliate myself with any political party, in part because I've lived in different parts of the country where Democrat/Republican have different connotations. I just vote my conscience. If I had to register as one or the other it would be Democrat. The reason is, I disagree with both parties on certain issues. But the issues where I disagree with Republicans on piss me off more than the issues I disagree with Democrats on. I think both parties have lost track of their historic legacies in favor of short term gain. On the other hand if the Democrats continue their poor decision making and losing ways I might become a Republican as a protest. I'm also a Buddhist and you know Buddha said be careful who you associate with. Better to travel alone than with fools. The Democrats have not only lost track of their ideals, but also have been choosing paths that seem designed to lose (at least presidential) elections. What's the point?

Wow, thanks for such a thoughtful answer. I'd love to understand more about what you have said, if you feel comfortable answering my questions. For example:

Which issues do you consider yourself a liberal?

Which issues do you consider yourself a conservative?

What do you think about the death penalty?

Which issues of the republican party piss you off the most?

Which issues of the democrat party piss you off the most?

What is do you think is the historic legacy of the republican party?

What do you think is the historic legacy of the democratic party?

If you don't want to answer any (or all) of the questions I asked, that is totally fine.

 

[Big Blue Machin]

I'm a Moderate Republican too.

Same sex: Let them marry and get equal rights but let the term 'marriage' be between man and woman.
Abortion: I'm against it but since most people are in favour of abortions, they can blow their brains out and have abortions.
Marijuana: Against the use of it, and there should be stiffer sentences.
Defence: More money into defence, but scrap nuclear weapons.
Death Penalty: Wishy-Washy, but on most days against it.
Finances: I believe in cutting taxes but not all the time.
Social Sercuity: There is a place for government social sercuity. But people should be allowed to decide with their savings.
Health care: One single public tier with private help
Iraq War: Justified
Deficit/Debt: We need to get rid of it now.
Government Subidies/Loans: For, if the company has a good plan to get back on its feets (aka Chrysler).
Crime: More police (especially minority police)/ stiffer sentences.
Guns: For the right to bear it, but for responible use of it.
Welfare: Should only go to the people who need it. People can get higher welfare checks if they accept job training.
Free trade: For it.

We should not spend money we don't have.

 

[ProudDem]

I'm a Moderate Republican too.

Same sex: Let them marry and get equal rights but let the term 'marriage' be between man and woman.
Abortion: I'm against it but since most people are in favour of abortions, they can blow their brains out and have abortions.
Marijuana: Against the use of it, and there should be stiffer sentences.
Defence: More money into defence, but scrap nuclear weapons.
Death Penalty: Wishy-Washy, but on most days against it.
Finances: I believe in cutting taxes but not all the time.
Social Sercuity: There is a place for government social sercuity. But people should be allowed to decide with their savings.
Health care: One single public tier with private help
Iraq War: Justified
Deficit/Debt: We need to get rid of it now.
Government Subidies/Loans: For, if the company has a good plan to get back on its feets (aka Chrysler).
Crime: More police (especially minority police)/ stiffer sentences.
Guns: For the right to bear it, but for responible use of it.
Welfare: Should only go to the people who need it. People can get higher welfare checks if they accept job training.
Free trade: For it.

We should not spend money we don't have.

Hi Big Blue. Very interesting. I have some questions for you, and they are not being asked to attack your reasons--just to understand why you feel the way you do.

1. What's wrong with calling the act of any 2 adults who get married a "marriage"? Why should it be limited to 2 members of the opposite sex?

2. Why would what the majority of people think about abortion affect your thinking, in the sense that you're against it, but you say since most people support it, we should allow it. Is it because you feel like it's hopeless to fight it?

3. Why are you against the death penalty? For me, it's about $$. It costs more $$ to have the death penalty than to just let those people rot in jail for the rest of their lives.

We do need make sure that those on welfare are not abusing it. I like many of the things you said, BTW.

Hey, what's up with that red square associated with your name that says you are not well liked? Why don't people like you? Is it because you're too moderate for the republicans on this board?

 

[Nuc]

Wow, thanks for such a thoughtful answer. I'd love to understand more about what you have said, if you feel comfortable answering my questions. For example:

Which issues do you consider yourself a liberal?

Which issues do you consider yourself a conservative?

What do you think about the death penalty?

Which issues of the republican party piss you off the most?

Which issues of the democrat party piss you off the most?

What is do you think is the historic legacy of the republican party?

What do you think is the historic legacy of the democratic party?

If you don't want to answer any (or all) of the questions I asked, that is totally fine.

I am liberal on many social issues such as gay rights, first amendment, environment, prison reform, drug laws.

Conservative because I believe in personal responsibility. I don't think people should blame the government for their personal failures. This is the land of opportunity. You can make yourself here and that's a lucky thing.

I used to favor the death penalty because it's really hard not to in certain cases. However I don't trust the government on any other issue, so I definitely don't trust them on life and death ones. We are out of step with the civilized world on this one. And I find it ridiculous that a country which is mainly Christian favors the death penalty when Jesus was the victim of an unjust death penalty.

Republicans piss me off when they pick relatively unimportant issues like gay rights or abortion and beat the hell out of it to drum up support from the rank and file. In the case of abortion I consider it cynical because they know Roe v. Wade will never be overturned and if it is there will be a backlash that sinks them. But they beat on it anyway because it's a vote getter. Gay rights I just don't think it's important. Likewise Pledge of Allegiance and Ten Commandments in public places. I don't really care about it, but the Republicans overemphasize to to cater to a specific constituency. It's not their main agenda but they want people to think it is. They pander to the religious right, and now those people are pissed because they haven't delivered. In my opinion they never intended to deliver, just wanted the votes.

Democrats are mainly pissing me off nowadays with their candy ass rhetoric. There is nobody with any charisma or ideas they are willing to stick with. I disagree with them on affirmative action. Goes against the principle of the individual. And someone needs to clue them in on the concept that you can't govern if you don't win elections.

Republican party had great figures like Lincoln and T.Roosevelt. Roosevelt was an ardent environmentalist with great foresight. When modern Republicans sell out the environment they piss on his grave.

Democrats used to look out for the common man, but now they are so busy trying to juggle all the different interest groups they want to serve that the common man is the last person who gets some attention. The factions of Democrat support are so self-centered that they are at each others throats. That's no way to run a party.

I could write a lot more but that's enough for now.

 

[ProudDem]

I really appreciate your response. Your answers are fascinating to me (because I agree with so much of what you said ). Seriously, I enjoyed reading your opinion on these issues. You have made excellent points regarding both parties.

 

[Avatar4321]

What amazes me is there are people who think that the breakdown of the family and the murder of children are unimportant issues. What is more important other than maybe defense?

 

[Nuc]

What amazes me is there are people who think that the breakdown of the family and the murder of children are unimportant issues. What is more important other than maybe defense?

2 Questions Av,

Do you really think there is a possibility of abortion becoming illegal in the US? If they answer is yes do you think that situation will become permanent.

I don't think so. It doesn't have anything to do with my opinion of abortion. It is based on what I think the majority wishes. Look, there is a Republican President, Senate, House, even the Supreme Court looks pretty Republican. If they can't do anything about abortion now, they never will. And they are not trying. That's why I said what I said about the Republicans.

I couldn't care less about gay marriage. I just think they should have the same legal rights as everyone else. If they can have those rights without marriage it's alright with me. But if nothing changes either way it's not important to me and won't change my vote or my party affiliation. So to me it's not a very important issue.

As you say defense is important. Personally I think the insane upward spiral in the cost of living is much more important than whether a handful of gays want legal protection of their assets.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

I don't totally disagree with what you say, but I do want to comment on a couple of things.

I used to favor the death penalty because it's really hard not to in certain cases. However I don't trust the government on any other issue, so I definitely don't trust them on life and death ones. We are out of step with the civilized world on this one. And I find it ridiculous that a country which is mainly Christian favors the death penalty when Jesus was the victim of an unjust death penalty.

We aren't in total disagreement here. I can understand why someone would be against the death penalty. Personally, I think it should only be used in extreme cases, like Ted Bundy or the child molester that buried the little girl alive in Florida. However, it isn't the government deciding when the death penalty should be used, it's the state government deciding if it is an option or not.

I know a lot of people point to countries in Europe with no death penalty, many of which have a low crime rate. What nobody ever mentions is that when someone goes to prison in these countries, it is an actual punishment. Prison is actually prison.

Republicans piss me off when they pick relatively unimportant issues like gay rights or abortion and beat the hell out of it to drum up support from the rank and file. In the case of abortion I consider it cynical because they know Roe v. Wade will never be overturned and if it is there will be a backlash that sinks them. But they beat on it anyway because it's a vote getter. Gay rights I just don't think it's important. Likewise Pledge of Allegiance and Ten Commandments in public places. I don't really care about it, but the Republicans overemphasize to to cater to a specific constituency. It's not their main agenda but they want people to think it is. They pander to the religious right, and now those people are pissed because they haven't delivered. In my opinion they never intended to deliver, just wanted the votes.

And exactly how is this different from the Democrats? This is nothing new for any political party. Of course they talk about things that are going to capture people's attention. I agree, I don't see Roe vs. Wade being overturned any time soon. Seems to me it's the Democrats that pound away on this one, making it sound like people will loose thier "right to choose" if a Republican is on office. Since Roe vs. Wade went into effect, we have elected or re-elected Republican presidents five times. Roe vs. Wade is still there. As far as the Pledge of Allegiance and the Ten Commmandments, who is right and who is wrong aside, these are issues stirred up by liberals and Democrats, not Republicans.

All in all, I think it's pretty funny how the Republicans are criticized for being out of touch, and at the same time criticized for emphasising what Americans will pay attention to. As far as people getting pissed for not delivering, it reminds me a bit of the gay community and the promises Clinton made to them. Sometimes things are promised, and for various reasons, they aren't delivered. Happens on both sides of the aisle.

 

[Nuc]

I don't totally disagree with what you say, but I do want to comment on a couple of things.



We aren't in total disagreement here. I can understand why someone would be against the death penalty. Personally, I think it should only be used in extreme cases, like Ted Bundy or the child molester that buried the little girl alive in Florida. However, it isn't the government deciding when the death penalty should be used, it's the state government deciding if it is an option or not.

I know a lot of people point to countries in Europe with no death penalty, many of which have a low crime rate. What nobody ever mentions is that when someone goes to prison in these countries, it is an actual punishment. Prison is actually prison.



And exactly how is this different from the Democrats? This is nothing new for any political party. Of course they talk about things that are going to capture people's attention. I agree, I don't see Roe vs. Wade being overturned any time soon. Seems to me it's the Democrats that pound away on this one, making it sound like people will loose thier "right to choose" if a Republican is on office. Since Roe vs. Wade went into effect, we have elected or re-elected Republican presidents five times. Roe vs. Wade is still there. As far as the Pledge of Allegiance and the Ten Commmandments, who is right and who is wrong aside, these are issues stirred up by liberals and Democrats, not Republicans.

All in all, I think it's pretty funny how the Republicans are criticized for being out of touch, and at the same time criticized for emphasising what Americans will pay attention to. As far as people getting pissed for not delivering, it reminds me a bit of the gay community and the promises Clinton made to them. Sometimes things are promised, and for various reasons, they aren't delivered. Happens on both sides of the aisle.

I pretty much agree with you here. A credible argument could be made either way about both parties. I think both the left and the right create a tempest in a teapot about stuff like the Pledge.

As far as what you say about Republicans emphasizing what Americans will pay attention to, that's part of my original point. They seem to cultivate single issue voters and farm those votes more than the Democrats do. I don't know if that makes the Republicans more cynical or just more effective.