What's a liberal?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Nuc, Sep 15, 2005.

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What is a liberal?

  1. Adolf Hitler was a liberal.

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. Anyone left of Hitler.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Anyone left of Genghis Khan.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Anyone left of Barry Goldwater.

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  5. Anyone left of Richard Nixon.

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  6. George Bush.

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  7. Anyone.

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  1. Nuc
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    Nuc Senior Member

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    I have frequently posted on this board only to have some posters assault me with statements to the effect of "you libs are all the same, libs like you, all libs are the same, and so on. But I don't consider myself a liberal by any means. So I'm wondering what this obsession is about.
     
  2. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    Anyone left of me. ;)
     
  3. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    A liberal IMO, is someone who promotes the socialist/communist philosophy. They believe in the state as the true caregiver and that the individual is incapable of caring for themselves much less other people. They believe in a utopian society in which everyone shares all that they make with everyone else. They believe that universal peace is achieved through everyone being the same. Whether you interpret that through the hippy notion of peace and love or Hitler and Stalin's notion of one-ness through force, individuality is the enemy. Anyone that thinks for themselves and becomes self sufficient is an enemy to liberalism.

    For the record, i dont believe your a liberal. I believe you are on the left but not to the extremity that liberalism is.
     
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  4. Bonnie
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    Bonnie Senior Member

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    I think that depends on the perspective of the person, in the former Soviet Union a liberal is the same as conservative here and the conservatives there were in the KGB

    IN the U.S. a liberal is one who believes the government is the answer to all problems even the ones it creates.
    A liberal is one who has an elitist way of thinking that they are the only smart, generous, open minded, thoughtful, and provactave people, while conservatives are just a bunch of dumb religious hicks who are selfish, hypocritical, closed minded, judgemental, greedy, moralistic, simple minded etc.
    Liberals think they are the only ones smart enough to make money, the only ones generous enough to make lots of money but lobby the government to take other's money away from them.
    Liberals think their opinion is the only one that belongs on campus.
    Liberals think they now have the right to enlighten other people's children on accepting homosexuality, promiscuity, secularism.
    Liberals think God is for morons
    Liberals think it's okay to be sexually promiscious, adulterous, etc but they are still okay because they give money occasionally to the homeless, and lobby for socialism.
    Liberals empathize with pedaphiles, murderers, and think minimal jail time and rehab are sufficient anything more is barbaric.
    Liberals think anything short of kissing terrorists collective asses is exhibiting closed minded, and "cowboy" like behavior, " we must understand terrorists, their pain.
    Liberals probably think it's stupid to fly the flag.
    Liberals want all public traces of religion removed so as not to offend the 30 athiests that live here, heaven forbid!!
    Liberals like to rewrite history to suit their own agenda,

    JMO ..But none of this applies to you right ;)
     
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  5. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    The sad part is, that used to be the definition of a socialist/communist, and not a liberal. Nowadays, it's hard to see a divide.
     
  6. acludem
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    acludem VIP Member

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    The true definition of an American liberal in today's political climate is someone who supports church/state separation, someone who supports equal opportunity and civil liberties for everyone regardless of age, gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation. Liberals believe that the government has a responsibility to exert certain controls on the economy to ensure a level playing field for businesses to compete and for consumers to spend.

    Adolf Hitler was a dictator, he didn't have a political philosophy except that he was great. Mussolini was a fascist, which is the farthest extreme on the political right. Fascism is the merger of corporations and government, a policy wholly supported by the Republican (Fascist) Party in America, maybe not in word, but certainly in deed.

    "Liberal" covers a large spectrum of views, just as "Conservative" does. I realize that many of you consider anyone to the left of Pat Robertson to be a flaming, screaming liberal. That's why many Republicans hate Arlen Specter, Christine Todd Whitman, et. al who are the true moderate conscience of that party. There are some on the extreme left of my party who may say the same things about Joe Lieberman, et al. but I am not one of them. I'm a pragmatic, common sense liberal. There are many pragmatic common sense conservatives. Many of the people who post on this board are right-wing extremists who won't walk on the left side of the road.

    The real difference? Liberals think and then act, conservatives act and then, if they feel like it, think, but usually only after a liberal fixes their mistake (don't believe me, see Harding-Hoover and then Roosevelt, Reagan/Bush I and then Clinton).

    acludem
     
  7. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Not a very good poll. You could select multiple answers and still be right.

    A liberal is anyone who espouses socialist idealogy, whether they are aware of it or not, and tries to corrupt our Constitution with said idealogy.
     
  8. theim
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    theim Senior Member

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    Liberals are idealists who value equality over all else. Freedom they have no use for. In their ideal, perfect world, we all are exactly the same. No money, no power, no forcing others to do things. All equal. Socialism and Anarchism are the goals. Nobody should tell anybody else what to do, which, since liberals beleive humans to be naturally good, will mean that everyone treats everyone else with respect. A very good-sounding ideal indeed. The only thing is...

    Humanity on the whole is not naturally good. Humans are selfish, above all else. The most basic human drives can eventually be boiled down to the desire to make yourself happy. This hapiness often comes at the expense of others. Time and time again this has been revealed. As the restraining force of the social order breaks down, violent chaos ensues. This was most recently exibited in NO.

    Conservatives see the ideal of the Liberals and realize that it will never come to pass as long as humans have the capacity of thought. Ever. There must be a restraining force. It doesn't have to be (in fact, shouldn't) very large, but it must be there. Disagreeing with even the basic liberal ideal (socialist anarchy), conservatives beleive the natural thing is for people to have nothing more or less than what they earn themselves. And since utopian equality is not the goal, the primary aim of a conservative is not to earn the love or respect of a foe.

    Now that my very basic, Hobbesian philosphy is out of the way and explained, let us explore the question of what happens when liberal idealism meets with human nature and the real world.

    Havinig explained above that humans want things, it is only logical that they will want as many things as they can accumulate. This, of course, is in direct conflict with the liberal ideal. So what happens? In extreme cases (the USSR, China) the liberals, having secured power, use force to create their utopia. Things are physically taken away from people, and if the people attempt to resist, they are imprisoned or killed for wanting more than their alloted share. In more subtle cases (US Democratic Party) liberals work within the framework of the laws of a free country to take things away, without actually resorting to force. "Progressive taxation" and income redistribution are prime examples of this. Rich people are penalized for no other reason than that they have more than somebody else.

    The eventual goal of the latter method is to partially dismantle the free society and institute socialism into law without mass approval, because freedom and equality are inherently in conflict.

    Liberals do not recognize national boundaries. Only political boundaries. A member of the movement in Russia is the same as a member of the movement in Botswana. Anybody proud to be American just because they are American is misguidedly nostalgic at best, a jingoistic nutcase at worst. Ergo, they typically hold little or no respect for the country they inhabit, and are not above using its own laws of free speech to undermine and attack it. Keep in mind the eventual ideal is that one day there will be no nations. There is a problem. Most people, unlike liberals, love their country. To get around this, Liberals will declare that they too love their country, they just despise whatever it is their country does. And since, to conservatives, freedom is the goal, liberals are free to say these things with no legal ramifications, all the while chipping away at national pride.

    Liberals hold a hatred of the Christian church. Mostly because its the dominant religion. If another religion was espoused by the majority that required strict value judgments, they would hate that too. This is because of the judgements practicing Christians make. Christianity is part of the restraining social order mentioned at the top, which liberals wish to see done away with. Christians do not see homosexuality as a correct way of living and will say so. The is repugnant to liberals. Herein lies another problem, much like the above. Most Americans are Christians. Well, that's OK, so long as their religion is marginalized to such an extent that judgements are no longer able to be made. So now you have a full frontal assault on Christianity. Whereas when this nation was founded, government documents of all types were a lot more religious than "under God" in the pledge, now schoolchildren are no longer allowed to swear loyalty to their country. I do not pretend to know how this particular battle will end. But in the ideal liberal world, Christianity and all value judgement-based religions are out of the picture.

    In short liberals are idealists, who are simply unable to admit their ideas have been tried and found severely wanting. Professing to care about people, they think nothing of letting others get slaughtered so long as "the cause" is furthered. Like the Soviets, they believe the cost will be worth it in the end.

    And the surefire way you know you have uncovered the true motives of a liberal is when he screeches like a stuck pig when you get close to the truth. If you say burning a US flag on the fourth is inappropriate, you get accused of being a fascist who wants to stifle dissent and have Nuremburg rallys in Chicago. (TIP: Look for the line "How dare you question my patriotism!") If you point out the nobody honestly sees anything offensive about a tree at the capitol being decorated at Christmas, you are accused of wishing all mosques, temples, and synogogues to be torched, and all non-Christians rounded up into camps. If you declare that a 20-hour workweek is perhaps a little light, you are accused of wishing workers to be chained to their machinery, working 23 hour shifts with no breaks, and using little children as coal min air quality testers. Etc.

    Wow, that was a lot longer than I thought it would be.
     
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  9. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I honestly have no clue where to begin responding to this garbage.

    Liberals don't support the separation of Church and state, they support the elimination of the practice of religion in public. Which is unconstitutional. They fight free speech with political correctness. They have essentially taken our property rights away. They think no honest citizen should own a gun. They think killing an innocent child is a constitutionally guarenteed right while executing a convicted felon is unconstitutional. They think the government can spend our money better than we can.

    Liberals don't want to level the corporate playing field. They want to eliminate it. Those "evil" Corporations prove how inefficient government is when it tries to run the economy. It's those "evil capitalist pigs" that keep they little guy down. It's those "evil corporate scumbags" that are killing our environment! It's more important to save trees than for humans to have jobs, heat, or food.

    You are a freaking idiot when it comes to fascism. Fascism does demand nationalized corporations. Which is exactly the opposite of what the conservative right stands for. You see, we on the right thing government involvement in business is bad. It's the liberals who want the government controling businesses. You even admitted it in the same freaking post you are trying to accuse Republicans of doing it. Ill give you a reminder.

    Now which is a merger of government and corporation? The view that government should stay out of the corporations way? Or the view that government has the responsibility to control them?

    It's rather Ironic that you defined yourself and all liberals as fascists.

    It's approprate though. You have alot in common. You want the government controling corporations. You care more about trees than humans. You want to kick religion out of the public sphere in favor of the state. you want to impose speech controls. You all hate jews.

    But then why wouldn't you be pretty much the same? Whether you call yourselves communist, fascist, or liberal you all espouse the same idealogy: Socialism. You all exalt the state as your god. it is the state that supposed to solve all your problems.

    Arlen Specter and Christine Whitman aren't the conscience of the Republican parties. They are the ones corrupting it. They only reason they get elected is because the alternative, a flaming liberal Democrat, is the alternative. They are a choice between bad and hell on earth.

    You are a pragmatic sensible liberal? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Seriously, you really think highly of yourself don't you?

    Liberals think before they act? Seriously you can't be serious. This is like the funniest thing I've seen in a while. Were you watching your Democrat leadership in the Senate the past few days? They have been making fools of themselves in front of the nation while trying to grill Roberts. Seriously, if your leadership in the Senate is the cream of the liberal crop then you guys are in serious trouble.

    And what about your last Presidential Candidate? The man wanted to offer nuclear materials to Iran to get them to stop building nuclear weapons. What kind of idiot would do such a thing? Oh that's right, Clinton and Carter negotiated a deal that gave North Korea nuclear material if they promised not to build nuclear weapons. And what did they do? They took the nuclear material they were given and built nuclear weapons out of it.

    Let's look at the former vice President. He went out on the coldest day of the year to denounce Global warming. On top of that the Hollywood left even created a movie showing how global warming caused an ice age. Lot's of intelligent thought going on there.

    If anyone acts before they think, it's the left of this country. It's always lets move quickly to destroy the pillars of society before thinking through why such institutions in society exist the way they do to begin with. Let's destroy businesses. Let's destroy family. Let's destroy property rights.

    I mean your entire post is a perfect example of not thinking. You don't have any real arguments against Conservatives so you start with: 1)Conservatives are fascists, 2)The only Republicans with consciences are the ones that agree more with you, and 3)Conservatives are stupid. Liberals are educated.

    I think if you are pragmatic sensible thinking liberal you can come up with something alittle more convincing.

    What mistakes have conservatives made that liberals clean up? We are still trying to clean up social security. We will probably still be trying to clean up the Carter admistration for the next 20 years. We cleaned up Iraq, but Iran was his mess that we still need to clean up. Of course then Carter and

    Oh and if you want to learn more about Hitler and his idealogy you can learn from a Phd. You can tell its alot closer to the left then the right.

    http://jonjayray.netfirms.com/hitler.html
     
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  10. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    You mean someone who buys in to the paranoia that a nativity scene on public property constitutes some form of coercion.
    You mean someone who believes in racial quotas to control the racial composition of society.
    You mean someone who really believes businesses are evil and the economy should be planned, but lies about it, but will admit it after about an hour of trying to get of them why they FEEL tax cuts don't grow the economy.
    You mean you're one of theose people who's thoughful until their reasoning leads them to see how wrong they are, but then becomes irrational and hurtful instead of accepting that anything liberal could be wrong.
    Once again, you must resort to simplistic adhominem attacks against conservatives, because you're outgamed at every turn.
     
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