The human right is life and it is essential every person have healthcare. It's essential for the economy and national security. Healthcare as a right is humane and necessary for the advancement of this nation.
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What Would A Free Market For Health Care Look Like?
- Thread starter longknife
- Start date
The human right is life and it is essential every person have healthcare. It's essential for the economy and national security. Healthcare as a right is humane and necessary for the advancement of this nation.
It may, in your egotistical opinion, be a "human right." But, IT IS NOT a constitutional right!
Constitutional rights are human rights and vice versa. My human right to healthcare began the moment I was born, and it's only a matter of time until the government recognizes it as such.
You are claiming that, from the moment you were born, I AM SUPPOSED TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE?
Where the hell does that come from?
And where is it in the constitution?
Healthcare is a human right. Every American is supposed to pay into it. That's how it should be and goes with healthcare as a right. Paying into the system means you get to use it, too.
Show me PROOF of where healthcare is a human right!
Once you are born, the only human right there is is to DIE!
The human right is life and it is essential every person have healthcare. It's essential for the economy and national security. Healthcare as a right is humane and necessary for the advancement of this nation.
The main thing is to have state control over all the necessities of life.
a free market for healthcare would mean:
A very good question. And the following seems to make a whole lot of sense:
Why is it that trial lawyer ads are everywhere, while the doctor ads are nowhere to be found? The short answer is: we have a free market in the resolution of tort claims, but we have completely suppressed the market for medical care.
More @ What Would A Free Market For Health Care Look Like?
no MEDICARE
NO MEDICARE PART D FOR PRESCRIPTIONS
NO VA HOSPITALS
NO VA CARE
NO MEDICAL SCHOOL GRANTS
NO NURSING SCHOOL GRANTS
NO MEDICAID
NO EMERGENCY ROOM CARE FOR THE INDIGENT
NO TAX DEDUCTION FOR EMPLOYER PROVIDED HEALTH INSURANCE
NO CHILD HEALTH CARE -CHIPS
NO TAX DEDUCTION FOR YOUR HEALTH CARE PREMIUMS
NO MEDICAL RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT GRANTS
NO FDA PROTECTIONS
NO NIH FUNDS
NO VACCINES FOR CHILDREN
NO TRICARE
etc....
only without government interference in any manner would it be a ''free market'',
which will never happen,
and for a good reason.
5 times more than 20-25 years ago imo....regardless, it is an awful lot more!Free market health care is what we have now.
Not where health insurance is concerned. In that respect it's a crony capitalist market where big insurers lobby the government and win every time.
That's why the costs are so high.
Things now cost 5x or more what they did 15 years ago.
But costs have risen for the most part, because of medical technology and new drugs and new surgeries etc advancements.... MRI's and CAT scans vs just x-rays kind of thing, and lasers for surgery vs just the knife, and tiny cameras viewing in to your veins and organs and colon,
and key drugs that save the once dying that are priced through the roof for decades with patent laws and extensions of them...research and development is costly I suppose?
Marion Morrison
Diamond Member
- Feb 10, 2017
- 59,298
- 16,837
- 2,190
- Banned
- #45
Not that costly.5 times more than 20-25 years ago imo....regardless, it is an awful lot more!Free market health care is what we have now.
Not where health insurance is concerned. In that respect it's a crony capitalist market where big insurers lobby the government and win every time.
That's why the costs are so high.
Things now cost 5x or more what they did 15 years ago.
But costs have risen for the most part, because of medical technology and new drugs and new surgeries etc advancements.... MRI's and CAT scans vs just x-rays kind of thing, and lasers for surgery vs just the knife, and tiny cameras viewing in to your veins and organs and colon,
research and development is costly I suppose?
i haven't done a full analysis and am most certainly shooting from the hip on this...Not that costly.5 times more than 20-25 years ago imo....regardless, it is an awful lot more!Free market health care is what we have now.
Not where health insurance is concerned. In that respect it's a crony capitalist market where big insurers lobby the government and win every time.
That's why the costs are so high.
Things now cost 5x or more what they did 15 years ago.
But costs have risen for the most part, because of medical technology and new drugs and new surgeries etc advancements.... MRI's and CAT scans vs just x-rays kind of thing, and lasers for surgery vs just the knife, and tiny cameras viewing in to your veins and organs and colon,
research and development is costly I suppose?
I would love to see a down and dirty analysis on it....
could it be that insurance companies have higher profit margins now than 25 years ago?
could it be that hospitals profit margins are higher too?
could it be that CEO salaries and the top positions pay 500% more?
could it be medical advancements?
could it be key legislative measures?
could it be they were unprepared for the increased demand without proper supply with all the boomer increase?
Ithink it is more than likely,
ALL OF THE ABOVE
Marion Morrison
Diamond Member
- Feb 10, 2017
- 59,298
- 16,837
- 2,190
- Banned
- #47
i haven't done a full analysis and am most certainly shooting from the hip on this...Not that costly.5 times more than 20-25 years ago imo....regardless, it is an awful lot more!Free market health care is what we have now.
Not where health insurance is concerned. In that respect it's a crony capitalist market where big insurers lobby the government and win every time.
That's why the costs are so high.
Things now cost 5x or more what they did 15 years ago.
But costs have risen for the most part, because of medical technology and new drugs and new surgeries etc advancements.... MRI's and CAT scans vs just x-rays kind of thing, and lasers for surgery vs just the knife, and tiny cameras viewing in to your veins and organs and colon,
research and development is costly I suppose?
I would love to see a down and dirty analysis on it....
could it be that insurance companies have higher profit margins now than 25 years ago?
could it be that hospitals profit margins are higher too?
could it be that CEO salaries and the top positions pay 500% more?
could it be medical advancements?
could it be key legislative measures?
could it be they were unprepared for the increased demand without proper supply with all the boomer increase?
Ithink it is more than likely,
ALL OF THE ABOVE
I don't want to get too deep right now, but it's been 20-ish years of insurance lobbyists bribing comptrollers to get artificially high
premium increases every year.
But is there a correlation between insurance prices going up and hospital/doctor costs going up?i haven't done a full analysis and am most certainly shooting from the hip on this...Not that costly.5 times more than 20-25 years ago imo....regardless, it is an awful lot more!Free market health care is what we have now.
Not where health insurance is concerned. In that respect it's a crony capitalist market where big insurers lobby the government and win every time.
That's why the costs are so high.
Things now cost 5x or more what they did 15 years ago.
But costs have risen for the most part, because of medical technology and new drugs and new surgeries etc advancements.... MRI's and CAT scans vs just x-rays kind of thing, and lasers for surgery vs just the knife, and tiny cameras viewing in to your veins and organs and colon,
research and development is costly I suppose?
I would love to see a down and dirty analysis on it....
could it be that insurance companies have higher profit margins now than 25 years ago?
could it be that hospitals profit margins are higher too?
could it be that CEO salaries and the top positions pay 500% more?
could it be medical advancements?
could it be key legislative measures?
could it be they were unprepared for the increased demand without proper supply with all the boomer increase?
Ithink it is more than likely,
ALL OF THE ABOVE
I don't want to get too deep right now, but it's been 20-ish years of insurance lobbyists bribing comptrollers to get artificially high
premium increases every year.
and which came first, the chicken or the egg,
higher premiums so hospitals knew they could keep charging more and more,
or hospital costs rising so insurance had to collect more in premiums?
Constitutional rights are human rights and vice versa. My human right to healthcare began the moment I was born, and it's only a matter of time until the government recognizes it as such.
You are claiming that, from the moment you were born, I AM SUPPOSED TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE?
Where the hell does that come from?
And where is it in the constitution?
Healthcare is a human right. Every American is supposed to pay into it. That's how it should be and goes with healthcare as a right. Paying into the system means you get to use it, too.
Show me PROOF of where healthcare is a human right!
Once you are born, the only human right there is is to DIE!
The human right is life and it is essential every person have healthcare. It's essential for the economy and national security. Healthcare as a right is humane and necessary for the advancement of this nation.
The main thing is to have state control over all the necessities of life.
The main thing is that America needs a mixture, in my opinion. Having either total capitalism or total socialism would be disastrous for our country. The socialized elements have helped contribute positively to our nation.
Heckler und Koch
Member
You are claiming that, from the moment you were born, I AM SUPPOSED TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE?
Where the hell does that come from?
And where is it in the constitution?
Healthcare is a human right. Every American is supposed to pay into it. That's how it should be and goes with healthcare as a right. Paying into the system means you get to use it, too.
Show me PROOF of where healthcare is a human right!
Once you are born, the only human right there is is to DIE!
The human right is life and it is essential every person have healthcare. It's essential for the economy and national security. Healthcare as a right is humane and necessary for the advancement of this nation.
The main thing is to have state control over all the necessities of life.
The main thing is that America needs a mixture, in my opinion. Having either total capitalism or total socialism would be disastrous for our country. The socialized elements have helped contribute positively to our nation.
There is nothing wrong with actual capitalism - the problem is that what we have is crony capitalism, which magnifies all the worst aspects of the capitalist model. As to socialism in any form, it has been a failure anywhere it has been attempted. There has never been a successful socialist society for any stretch of time, and there never will be. As proof, I give you Venezuela as a dying model of socialism. There are many others.
Healthcare is a human right. Every American is supposed to pay into it. That's how it should be and goes with healthcare as a right. Paying into the system means you get to use it, too.
Show me PROOF of where healthcare is a human right!
Once you are born, the only human right there is is to DIE!
The human right is life and it is essential every person have healthcare. It's essential for the economy and national security. Healthcare as a right is humane and necessary for the advancement of this nation.
The main thing is to have state control over all the necessities of life.
The main thing is that America needs a mixture, in my opinion. Having either total capitalism or total socialism would be disastrous for our country. The socialized elements have helped contribute positively to our nation.
There is nothing wrong with actual capitalism - the problem is that what we have is crony capitalism, which magnifies all the worst aspects of the capitalist model. As to socialism in any form, it has been a failure anywhere it has been attempted. There has never been a successful socialist society for any stretch of time, and there never will be. As proof, I give you Venezuela as a dying model of socialism. There are many others.
Which is why I said I don't advocate total, complete socialism, but I do support some socialized elements in America. That includes socialized medicine.
Heckler und Koch
Member
But is there a correlation between insurance prices going up and hospital/doctor costs going up?i haven't done a full analysis and am most certainly shooting from the hip on this...Not that costly.5 times more than 20-25 years ago imo....regardless, it is an awful lot more!Not where health insurance is concerned. In that respect it's a crony capitalist market where big insurers lobby the government and win every time.
That's why the costs are so high.
Things now cost 5x or more what they did 15 years ago.
But costs have risen for the most part, because of medical technology and new drugs and new surgeries etc advancements.... MRI's and CAT scans vs just x-rays kind of thing, and lasers for surgery vs just the knife, and tiny cameras viewing in to your veins and organs and colon,
research and development is costly I suppose?
I would love to see a down and dirty analysis on it....
could it be that insurance companies have higher profit margins now than 25 years ago?
could it be that hospitals profit margins are higher too?
could it be that CEO salaries and the top positions pay 500% more?
could it be medical advancements?
could it be key legislative measures?
could it be they were unprepared for the increased demand without proper supply with all the boomer increase?
Ithink it is more than likely,
ALL OF THE ABOVE
I don't want to get too deep right now, but it's been 20-ish years of insurance lobbyists bribing comptrollers to get artificially high
premium increases every year.
and which came first, the chicken or the egg,
higher premiums so hospitals knew they could keep charging more and more,
or hospital costs rising so insurance had to collect more in premiums?
The correlation is that whenever government gets involved in anything, prices skyrocket. Healthcare started to go to shit as soon as the government decided to roll out Medicare back in 1965. Prices bent straight up from that point and have far exceeded the GDP increase YoY ever since. The only thing that brings prices down is open competition without government's thumb on the scale. Paul Ryan isn't stupid enough to thing that this rewarmed version of BozoCare is going to succeed - he is doing the bidding of his Big Pharma masters. He knows this will fail and will be right there to complete the monopoly on H/C with single payer - which has always the intend of BozoCare in the first place.
This isn't about the American taxpayer - it's about control.
Heckler und Koch
Member
Show me PROOF of where healthcare is a human right!
Once you are born, the only human right there is is to DIE!
The human right is life and it is essential every person have healthcare. It's essential for the economy and national security. Healthcare as a right is humane and necessary for the advancement of this nation.
The main thing is to have state control over all the necessities of life.
The main thing is that America needs a mixture, in my opinion. Having either total capitalism or total socialism would be disastrous for our country. The socialized elements have helped contribute positively to our nation.
There is nothing wrong with actual capitalism - the problem is that what we have is crony capitalism, which magnifies all the worst aspects of the capitalist model. As to socialism in any form, it has been a failure anywhere it has been attempted. There has never been a successful socialist society for any stretch of time, and there never will be. As proof, I give you Venezuela as a dying model of socialism. There are many others.
Which is why I said I don't advocate total, complete socialism, but I do support some socialized elements in America. That includes socialized medicine.
Sorry. Socialized anything is garbage. You need look no further than the NIH in Britain for the failure of a socialized medicine model.
Marion Morrison
Diamond Member
- Feb 10, 2017
- 59,298
- 16,837
- 2,190
- Banned
- #54
But is there a correlation between insurance prices going up and hospital/doctor costs going up?i haven't done a full analysis and am most certainly shooting from the hip on this...Not that costly.5 times more than 20-25 years ago imo....regardless, it is an awful lot more!
But costs have risen for the most part, because of medical technology and new drugs and new surgeries etc advancements.... MRI's and CAT scans vs just x-rays kind of thing, and lasers for surgery vs just the knife, and tiny cameras viewing in to your veins and organs and colon,
research and development is costly I suppose?
I would love to see a down and dirty analysis on it....
could it be that insurance companies have higher profit margins now than 25 years ago?
could it be that hospitals profit margins are higher too?
could it be that CEO salaries and the top positions pay 500% more?
could it be medical advancements?
could it be key legislative measures?
could it be they were unprepared for the increased demand without proper supply with all the boomer increase?
Ithink it is more than likely,
ALL OF THE ABOVE
I don't want to get too deep right now, but it's been 20-ish years of insurance lobbyists bribing comptrollers to get artificially high
premium increases every year.
and which came first, the chicken or the egg,
higher premiums so hospitals knew they could keep charging more and more,
or hospital costs rising so insurance had to collect more in premiums?
The correlation is that whenever government gets involved in anything, prices skyrocket. Healthcare started to go to shit as soon as the government decided to roll out Medicare back in 1965. Prices bent straight up from that point and have far exceeded the GDP increase YoY ever since. The only thing that brings prices down is open competition without government's thumb on the scale. Paul Ryan isn't stupid enough to thing that this rewarmed version of BozoCare is going to succeed - he is doing the bidding of his Big Pharma masters. He knows this will fail and will be right there to complete the monopoly on H/C with single payer - which has always the intend of BozoCare in the first place.
This isn't about the American taxpayer - it's about control.
Excellent post! I hope you don't end up being cultsmasher.
The human right is life and it is essential every person have healthcare. It's essential for the economy and national security. Healthcare as a right is humane and necessary for the advancement of this nation.
The main thing is to have state control over all the necessities of life.
The main thing is that America needs a mixture, in my opinion. Having either total capitalism or total socialism would be disastrous for our country. The socialized elements have helped contribute positively to our nation.
There is nothing wrong with actual capitalism - the problem is that what we have is crony capitalism, which magnifies all the worst aspects of the capitalist model. As to socialism in any form, it has been a failure anywhere it has been attempted. There has never been a successful socialist society for any stretch of time, and there never will be. As proof, I give you Venezuela as a dying model of socialism. There are many others.
Which is why I said I don't advocate total, complete socialism, but I do support some socialized elements in America. That includes socialized medicine.
Sorry. Socialized anything is garbage. You need look no further than the NIH in Britain for the failure of a socialized medicine model.
It is not garbage. It works. I look at Britain and I look at their healthcare system receiving high marks across the board and being ranked vastly superior to ours. Maybe theirs isn't perfect or without its fault, but we are one of the last countries in a position to criticize socialized medicine.
Heckler und Koch
Member
But is there a correlation between insurance prices going up and hospital/doctor costs going up?i haven't done a full analysis and am most certainly shooting from the hip on this...Not that costly.
I would love to see a down and dirty analysis on it....
could it be that insurance companies have higher profit margins now than 25 years ago?
could it be that hospitals profit margins are higher too?
could it be that CEO salaries and the top positions pay 500% more?
could it be medical advancements?
could it be key legislative measures?
could it be they were unprepared for the increased demand without proper supply with all the boomer increase?
Ithink it is more than likely,
ALL OF THE ABOVE
I don't want to get too deep right now, but it's been 20-ish years of insurance lobbyists bribing comptrollers to get artificially high
premium increases every year.
and which came first, the chicken or the egg,
higher premiums so hospitals knew they could keep charging more and more,
or hospital costs rising so insurance had to collect more in premiums?
The correlation is that whenever government gets involved in anything, prices skyrocket. Healthcare started to go to shit as soon as the government decided to roll out Medicare back in 1965. Prices bent straight up from that point and have far exceeded the GDP increase YoY ever since. The only thing that brings prices down is open competition without government's thumb on the scale. Paul Ryan isn't stupid enough to thing that this rewarmed version of BozoCare is going to succeed - he is doing the bidding of his Big Pharma masters. He knows this will fail and will be right there to complete the monopoly on H/C with single payer - which has always the intend of BozoCare in the first place.
This isn't about the American taxpayer - it's about control.
Excellent post! I hope you don't end up being cultsmasher.
Thanks. I am a Trump voter, but a pretty disillusioned one at this point. Been a hardcore right-winger for almost 40 years. I came over from Breitbart on the recommendation of a friend after that site became nothing but an echo chamber for the mindless Trump supporter. When Trump screws up, like he is on the H/C issue, he needs to be called out for it and not praised mindlessly.
Heckler und Koch
Member
The main thing is to have state control over all the necessities of life.
The main thing is that America needs a mixture, in my opinion. Having either total capitalism or total socialism would be disastrous for our country. The socialized elements have helped contribute positively to our nation.
There is nothing wrong with actual capitalism - the problem is that what we have is crony capitalism, which magnifies all the worst aspects of the capitalist model. As to socialism in any form, it has been a failure anywhere it has been attempted. There has never been a successful socialist society for any stretch of time, and there never will be. As proof, I give you Venezuela as a dying model of socialism. There are many others.
Which is why I said I don't advocate total, complete socialism, but I do support some socialized elements in America. That includes socialized medicine.
Sorry. Socialized anything is garbage. You need look no further than the NIH in Britain for the failure of a socialized medicine model.
It is not garbage. It works. I look at Britain and I look at their healthcare system receiving high marks across the board and being ranked vastly superior to ours. Maybe theirs isn't perfect or without its fault, but we are one of the last countries in a position to criticize socialized medicine.
What I see every single time someone tries to prop up socialized medicine is the claim that 'high marks' are received, etc. In every case, it turns out that the supposed praise was initiated by a completely biased source, like the NIH itself. This is the same crap that people spout when attempting to defend the VA, which by accounts of people that actually deal with it (my family members, for some), the high praise is completely unwarranted. Government intervention is not only inefficient, in the case of the US it's also unconstitutional.
The VA doesn't work, and neither does the NIH. You cannot escape the fact that every such solution rations care, and put government bureaucrats in charge of making your healthcare decisions. You may wish to accept that model; I do not.
The main thing is that America needs a mixture, in my opinion. Having either total capitalism or total socialism would be disastrous for our country. The socialized elements have helped contribute positively to our nation.
There is nothing wrong with actual capitalism - the problem is that what we have is crony capitalism, which magnifies all the worst aspects of the capitalist model. As to socialism in any form, it has been a failure anywhere it has been attempted. There has never been a successful socialist society for any stretch of time, and there never will be. As proof, I give you Venezuela as a dying model of socialism. There are many others.
Which is why I said I don't advocate total, complete socialism, but I do support some socialized elements in America. That includes socialized medicine.
Sorry. Socialized anything is garbage. You need look no further than the NIH in Britain for the failure of a socialized medicine model.
It is not garbage. It works. I look at Britain and I look at their healthcare system receiving high marks across the board and being ranked vastly superior to ours. Maybe theirs isn't perfect or without its fault, but we are one of the last countries in a position to criticize socialized medicine.
What I see every single time someone tries to prop up socialized medicine is the claim that 'high marks' are received, etc. In every case, it turns out that the supposed praise was initiated by a completely biased source, like the NIH itself. This is the same crap that people spout when attempting to defend the VA, which by accounts of people that actually deal with it (my family members, for some), the high praise is completely unwarranted. Government intervention is not only inefficient, in the case of the US it's also unconstitutional.
The VA doesn't work, and neither does the NIH. You cannot escape the fact that every such solution rations care, and put government bureaucrats in charge of making your healthcare decisions. You may wish to accept that model; I do not.
This isn't bias. These are scientific studies. Government intervention is the only way to ensure all of us have healthcare as a right.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally
World Health Organization's Ranking of the World's Health Systems
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...blic-health-care-systems-ranked-by-perception
U.S. Health-Care System Ranks as One of the Least-Efficient
The Quality of US Healthcare Compared With the World
This isn't how it goes. You cannot cherry pick. It isn't bias just because it is something you don't like. We are the only country with this kind of developed system. Developed countries around the world have far surpassed us. It's time we get into the 21st Century and guarantee healthcare to every citizen. Doing anything but does not make America great.
You say it doesn't work. Studies disagree with you.
a free market for healthcare would mean:
A very good question. And the following seems to make a whole lot of sense:
Why is it that trial lawyer ads are everywhere, while the doctor ads are nowhere to be found? The short answer is: we have a free market in the resolution of tort claims, but we have completely suppressed the market for medical care.
More @ What Would A Free Market For Health Care Look Like?
no MEDICARE
NO MEDICARE PART D FOR PRESCRIPTIONS
NO VA HOSPITALS
NO VA CARE
NO MEDICAL SCHOOL GRANTS
NO NURSING SCHOOL GRANTS
NO MEDICAID
NO EMERGENCY ROOM CARE FOR THE INDIGENT
NO TAX DEDUCTION FOR EMPLOYER PROVIDED HEALTH INSURANCE
NO CHILD HEALTH CARE -CHIPS
NO TAX DEDUCTION FOR YOUR HEALTH CARE PREMIUMS
NO MEDICAL RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT GRANTS
NO FDA PROTECTIONS
NO NIH FUNDS
NO VACCINES FOR CHILDREN
NO TRICARE
.
And that would be huge boon to our society.
You are claiming that, from the moment you were born, I AM SUPPOSED TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE?
Where the hell does that come from?
And where is it in the constitution?
Healthcare is a human right. Every American is supposed to pay into it. That's how it should be and goes with healthcare as a right. Paying into the system means you get to use it, too.
Show me PROOF of where healthcare is a human right!
Once you are born, the only human right there is is to DIE!
The human right is life and it is essential every person have healthcare. It's essential for the economy and national security. Healthcare as a right is humane and necessary for the advancement of this nation.
The main thing is to have state control over all the necessities of life.
The main thing is that America needs a mixture, in my opinion. Having either total capitalism or total socialism would be disastrous for our country. The socialized elements have helped contribute positively to our nation.
The insurance companies have done well, that's for sure.
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