'What We Owe to Each Other'

Discussion in 'Economy' started by midcan5, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. midcan5
    Offline

    midcan5 liberal / progressive

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    9,535
    Thanks Received:
    1,998
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +2,034
    If you learn one thing as you go through this short time we call life, it is that people do not think. Situations, conversations, ideas go into our heads and some piece of the mind connects with another piece and instead of thinking about the topic it pulls the answer out immediately. If we wait we come back with the same answer, only now we think we thought about it. Have you ever wondered why you dream such nonsense or why certain things will create some feeling of dread or happiness or whatever? It is because much of what we are is simply our mind's evolutionary process at work. But maybe, sometimes, we can take those synapses and move them around so that next time something different comes out. Possible?

    Anyway that is my intro to an interesting interview in the 'Boston Review.' Quote below for my wingnut friends who often tell me how much they appreciate my quotes and book links.

    "Most interactions with people that you trust, people that you love, or people that just need to cooperate with on an immediate basis, take the form of “From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs.” It doesn’t matter if you’re working for the government, working for a corporation, or working in your family; if you need to fix the toilet because it’s leaking and you say “Hand me the wrench,” the other guy doesn’t say “What do I get for that?” It’s not an exchange; people act according to their abilities to chip in. Ironically communism is applied because it’s the only thing that works; it’s the most efficient way to allocate resources. Thus I like to say that you could argue that capitalism is just a bad way of organizing communism." David Graeber

    Boston Review — David V. Johnson: What We Owe to Each Other (David Graeber, Debt)
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  2. Katzndogz
    Offline

    Katzndogz Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Messages:
    45,911
    Thanks Received:
    4,370
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +5,242
    We owe each other nothing but what we choose to share. That's freedom. It's why communisim isn't freedom.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  3. syrenn
    Offline

    syrenn BANNED

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    47,839
    Thanks Received:
    10,373
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +10,376
    I don't owe anyone anything.... nor do i feel that others owe me anything..


    i give of myself..... i will revolt against anyone telling me i own them anything they do not deserve.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  4. Oddball
    Offline

    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    41,428
    Thanks Received:
    8,390
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Drinking wine, eating cheese, catching rays
    Ratings:
    +8,396
    The OP has to be the biggest strawman argument I've seen posited as "serious thought" in a looooooooong time.

    There's a vast gulf between voluntarily working together to achieve a mutually beneficial outcome, and having the fruits of your labor extorted by politicians and bureaucrats, under their self-centered POV of what's supposedly in my best interests.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2012
  5. Crackerjack
    Offline

    Crackerjack Too sick for a cure

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    4,266
    Thanks Received:
    765
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Your momma's house
    Ratings:
    +765
    "Capitalism is a bad way of organizing communism"? What a load of horseshit.

    You owe it to me to leave me the hell alone, both individually and by proxy (the state), unless and until we contract otherwise. And, since I didn't sign any social contracts, you can forget that one, too.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  6. Katzndogz
    Offline

    Katzndogz Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Messages:
    45,911
    Thanks Received:
    4,370
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +5,242
    It's really more meaningful than that. It supposes that there is a basic debt of survival that everyone owes to everyone else and should not be dependent on payment.If

    Someone would hand you a wrench if they understand that at some time in the future you might be in the position of handing them a wrench. Requiring payment for handing off a wrench means you have hired a plumber and must pay him for his services. Services that should be supplied free of charge because the plumber owes the services to the community.
     
  7. midcan5
    Offline

    midcan5 liberal / progressive

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    9,535
    Thanks Received:
    1,998
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +2,034
    I see that only the Robinson Crusoes have replied with the usual self interest meme conservatives have hard wired into their minds at birth. Is it at birth? Good question but we'll leave it for later. Any interested person can look back to history and see the success that fairness and equality bring to a society and just as simply look at third world nations were inequality exists. But of course they do not, they assume as my Rand example below tries to show, things are just as they are because they are just as they are, at least for them.

    http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/50564-libertarianism-in-a-nutshell-ii.html

    More stuff for those who think a bit and don't simply emote as conservatives / libertarians do.

    Edge: THE NEW SCIENCE OF MORALITY

    On the Evolutionary Edge of Altruism: A Game-Theoretic Proof of Hamilton's Rule for a Simple Case of Siblings
     
  8. Truthmatters
    Offline

    Truthmatters BANNED

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    80,207
    Thanks Received:
    2,218
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2,220
    I disagree, I think we can choose to owe each other kindness , fairness, love, respect, help and compassion.

    Its a choice we can make.

    If you choose to owe no one anything will the people who love you be proud of you for it?
     
  9. Truthmatters
    Offline

    Truthmatters BANNED

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    80,207
    Thanks Received:
    2,218
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2,220
    who hurt you so badly you habor nothing but contempt for your fellow man?
     
  10. Truthmatters
    Offline

    Truthmatters BANNED

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    80,207
    Thanks Received:
    2,218
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2,220
    Interesting stuff.


    When you are in a family love situation the "what do I get for that?" question has been pre answered.

    You already have made a pack that designated what the person will get for that action.


    In a family are those relationships more akin to communism or capitalism?
     

Share This Page