What was the meaning of the word infringed in the 2nd Amendment?

[edthecynic]

This is a very simple discussion just on the topic of what did the Founders mean when they used the word infringed in the 2nd Amendment.

Discuss, if you can!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

[BlindBoo]

It meant that the militiamen could take their muzzleloaders and in some cases, cannons home after a fighting season without the local law enforment being able to confiscate them.

 

[BlindBoo]

You shall not take away the legal force or effectiveness of the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not annul the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not invalidate the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not infringe the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

Class dismissed!

So do you think that regulating other weapons/arms such as .50 caliber machine guns, hand granades, RPG's or shoulder mounted ground to air missiles is an infringement on the 2nd amendment? What do the first four words in that amendment mean?

 

[Dubya]

You shall not take away the legal force or effectiveness of the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not annul the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not invalidate the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not infringe the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

Class dismissed!

So do you think that regulating other weapons/arms such as .50 caliber machine guns, hand granades, RPG's or shoulder mounted ground to air missiles is an infringement on the 2nd amendment? What do the first four words in that amendment mean?

I think you don't know what I mean, probably because you didn't read it.

No one has invalidated the right of the people to keep and bear arms. The Supreme Court decisions says it's not against the Constitution to prohibit certain weapons. The Founders just didn't want the people disarmed, period.

 

[martybegan]

You shall not take away the legal force or effectiveness of the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not annul the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not invalidate the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not infringe the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

Class dismissed!

So do you think that regulating other weapons/arms such as .50 caliber machine guns, hand granades, RPG's or shoulder mounted ground to air missiles is an infringement on the 2nd amendment? What do the first four words in that amendment mean?

It comes down to what you consider an "arm." In the language of the time an arm was a rifle for infantrymen, and sword/pistol combo for officers. As for the others they were specialty weapons.

Grenades were originally handled by "grenadiers" who were at first branches of the "sappers" or today's engineers. Not considered an arm.

A .50 cal machine gun is a crew serviced weapon, originally assinged to the artillery. Again, not considered an "arm"

RPG: Artillery/explosive. not an arm

SAM's, you guessed it artillery. Not an arm.

 

[BlindBoo]

What does the word infringed mean?

1. To break, as contracts; to violate, either positively by contravention, or negatively by non-fulfillment or neglect of performance. A prince or a private person infringes an agreement or covenant by neglecting to perform its conditions, as well as by doing what is stipulated not to be done.

2. To break; to violate; to transgress; to neglect to fulfill or obey; as, to infringe a law.

Link: Search => [word] => Infringe :: 1828 Dictionary :: Search the 1828 Noah Webster's Dictionary of the English Language (FREE) :: 1828.mshaffer.com
1828 Dictionary, first published in the US.

So, to be taken literally, anyone - a drunk, drug addict, child abuser, wife abuser, felon, pyschotic paranoid schizophrenic, child, etc. etc. cannot have their right to own, possess, carry or control any arm or firearm, anywhere - loaded or not infringed.

Does anyone believe the founders believed this to be so?

That's your interpretation, but it isn't what the Founders meant.

They wanted to preserve the liberty they fought for, but they didn't want a standing army that someone within could use to take away that liberty. They saw that happen in Europe, country after country. They saw the populace disarmed, country after country. So they wrote those two themes into the Constitution. They forbade the populace from being disarmed and choose a well regulated militia to defend the US instead of a standing army, that they really couldn't afford anyway, but didn't want it to happen. That way they could get the states to train their individual militias, who would rally together if attacked.

Infringe means to invalidate, annul, or to take away the legal force or effectiveness of.

In the case of an national threat like a foriegn invasion, the various states militias were used to defend the US until a National Army could be raised, not instead of.

 

[BlindBoo]

You shall not take away the legal force or effectiveness of the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not annul the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not invalidate the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not infringe the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

Class dismissed!

So do you think that regulating other weapons/arms such as .50 caliber machine guns, hand granades, RPG's or shoulder mounted ground to air missiles is an infringement on the 2nd amendment? What do the first four words in that amendment mean?

It comes down to what you consider an "arm." In the language of the time an arm was a rifle for infantrymen, and sword/pistol combo for officers. As for the others they were specialty weapons.

Grenades were originally handled by "grenadiers" who were at first branches of the "sappers" or today's engineers. Not considered an arm.

A .50 cal machine gun is a crew serviced weapon, originally assinged to the artillery. Again, not considered an "arm"

RPG: Artillery/explosive. not an arm

SAM's, you guessed it artillery. Not an arm.

I see, so you think they meant just 'Firearms' and not the other heavier weapons the militias had?

 

[Dubya]

You shall not take away the legal force or effectiveness of the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not annul the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not invalidate the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not infringe the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

Class dismissed!

So do you think that regulating other weapons/arms such as .50 caliber machine guns, hand granades, RPG's or shoulder mounted ground to air missiles is an infringement on the 2nd amendment? What do the first four words in that amendment mean?

It comes down to what you consider an "arm." In the language of the time an arm was a rifle for infantrymen, and sword/pistol combo for officers. As for the others they were specialty weapons.

Grenades were originally handled by "grenadiers" who were at first branches of the "sappers" or today's engineers. Not considered an arm.

A .50 cal machine gun is a crew serviced weapon, originally assinged to the artillery. Again, not considered an "arm"

RPG: Artillery/explosive. not an arm

SAM's, you guessed it artillery. Not an arm.

The arms were so safe back then that they probably meant the technology of the day by arm. Arm can mean just about any kind of weapon, including nuclear. All the Founders meant by it was to prevent the removal of arms from the population, because they witnessed it happening in Europe as countries were taken over. They didn't want it to happen here. It's a simple theme they talked about in the minutes composing the language:

Amendment II: House of Representatives, Amendments to the Constitution

"A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, being the best security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; but no person religiously scrupulous shall be compelled to bear arms."

Notice here it's reworded slightly and the part about religion was left off! They decided to let the states deal with it and didn't put it in the Constitution. There were issues like should religious people have to pay if they didn't serve to make it fair. The 2nd Amendment was a three theme proposal that was reduced to two themes: no standing army, use militia and don't disarm the populace. It isn't very complicated like people make it.

 

[BlindBoo]

You shall not take away the legal force or effectiveness of the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not annul the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not invalidate the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

You shall not infringe the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

Class dismissed!

So do you think that regulating other weapons/arms such as .50 caliber machine guns, hand granades, RPG's or shoulder mounted ground to air missiles is an infringement on the 2nd amendment? What do the first four words in that amendment mean?

I think you don't know what I mean, probably because you didn't read it.

No one has invalidated the right of the people to keep and bear arms. The Supreme Court decisions says it's not against the Constitution to prohibit certain weapons. The Founders just didn't want the people disarmed, period.

By the People the founders meant White Land Owning Males, you know, eligible citizens, for defense of the country from foriegn invasion, not from a government of the people by the people and for the people.

 

[Dubya]

So do you think that regulating other weapons/arms such as .50 caliber machine guns, hand granades, RPG's or shoulder mounted ground to air missiles is an infringement on the 2nd amendment? What do the first four words in that amendment mean?

It comes down to what you consider an "arm." In the language of the time an arm was a rifle for infantrymen, and sword/pistol combo for officers. As for the others they were specialty weapons.

Grenades were originally handled by "grenadiers" who were at first branches of the "sappers" or today's engineers. Not considered an arm.

A .50 cal machine gun is a crew serviced weapon, originally assinged to the artillery. Again, not considered an "arm"

RPG: Artillery/explosive. not an arm

SAM's, you guessed it artillery. Not an arm.

I see, so you think they meant just 'Firearms' and not the other heavier weapons the militias had?

They didn't care if someone had a cannon and a riverboat might have one. They just didn't want the populace disarmed. That doesn't mean you can't take a gun or knife away from the village idiot.

 

[martybegan]

So do you think that regulating other weapons/arms such as .50 caliber machine guns, hand granades, RPG's or shoulder mounted ground to air missiles is an infringement on the 2nd amendment? What do the first four words in that amendment mean?

It comes down to what you consider an "arm." In the language of the time an arm was a rifle for infantrymen, and sword/pistol combo for officers. As for the others they were specialty weapons.

Grenades were originally handled by "grenadiers" who were at first branches of the "sappers" or today's engineers. Not considered an arm.

A .50 cal machine gun is a crew serviced weapon, originally assinged to the artillery. Again, not considered an "arm"

RPG: Artillery/explosive. not an arm

SAM's, you guessed it artillery. Not an arm.

I see, so you think they meant just 'Firearms' and not the other heavier weapons the militias had?

When a person showed up for milita duty, they didnt come dragging a cannon with them. they came with a rifle or musket (shotgun if thats all they had), a bayonet, and if they had it a pistol. The more well off showed up with thier horses for cavalry purposes.

And I am incorrect about the navy thing in a previous post. There were letters of marque to allow for privateers, but you needed permission from the government for that, and that was accepted. anyone in an armed ship without one could be considered a pirate.

 

[Si modo]

This is a very simple discussion just on the topic of what did the Founders mean when they used the word infringed in the 2nd Amendment.

Discuss, if you can!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Verb

1. Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.): "infringe a copyright".
2. Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on: "infringe on his privacy".




Your word for the day.

 

[Dubya]

So do you think that regulating other weapons/arms such as .50 caliber machine guns, hand granades, RPG's or shoulder mounted ground to air missiles is an infringement on the 2nd amendment? What do the first four words in that amendment mean?

I think you don't know what I mean, probably because you didn't read it.

No one has invalidated the right of the people to keep and bear arms. The Supreme Court decisions says it's not against the Constitution to prohibit certain weapons. The Founders just didn't want the people disarmed, period.

By the People the founders meant White Land Owning Males, you know, eligible citizens, for defense of the country from foriegn invasion, not from a government of the people by the people and for the people.

There were free Blacks back then (not many) and there weren't restrictions of the second on women, except no one expected them to serve in a militia. There were a lot of free Blacks in my state, because the richest slave owner's wife died and he married a Quaker woman. He gave up his slaves at the time he courted her, maybe because Quakers didn't like slavery. There could have been other reasons, but it's reasonable that was one of them. Later Dickenson became Governor of Pennsylvania.

 

[martybegan]

It comes down to what you consider an "arm." In the language of the time an arm was a rifle for infantrymen, and sword/pistol combo for officers. As for the others they were specialty weapons.

Grenades were originally handled by "grenadiers" who were at first branches of the "sappers" or today's engineers. Not considered an arm.

A .50 cal machine gun is a crew serviced weapon, originally assinged to the artillery. Again, not considered an "arm"

RPG: Artillery/explosive. not an arm

SAM's, you guessed it artillery. Not an arm.

I see, so you think they meant just 'Firearms' and not the other heavier weapons the militias had?

They didn't care if someone had a cannon and a riverboat might have one. They just didn't want the populace disarmed. That doesn't mean you can't take a gun or knife away from the village idiot.

at the time cannons and cannonballs, as well as extra powder and ammunition were kept in local armories. I think even in colonial times they didnt want two neighbors blasting away at each other with smoothbore 12 pounders.

They also didnt want the people "effectively disarmed," meaning given inadequate weapons for the task at hand. If they wanted to limit it to certain arms, why didnt they say "shall be weapons XYZ" instead of not be infringed?

 

[Dubya]

This is a very simple discussion just on the topic of what did the Founders mean when they used the word infringed in the 2nd Amendment.

Discuss, if you can!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Verb

1. Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.): "infringe a copyright".
2. Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on: "infringe on his privacy".




Your word for the day.

You have to examine the use of the word when it was written. It means to invalidate.

 

[Uncensored2008]

This is a very simple discussion just on the topic of what did the Founders mean when they used the word infringed in the 2nd Amendment.

Discuss, if you can!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

infringed past participle, past tense of in·fringe (Verb)
Verb

Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.): "infringe a copyright".
Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on: "infringe on his privacy".

 

[konradv]

This is a very simple discussion just on the topic of what did the Founders mean when they used the word infringed in the 2nd Amendment.

Discuss, if you can!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I think the important part is "the people", i.e. an outright ban on guns is unconstitutional, but that does not mean an individual "person" can't be checked out/licensed to eliminate criminals and the insane.

 

[Si modo]

This is a very simple discussion just on the topic of what did the Founders mean when they used the word infringed in the 2nd Amendment.

Discuss, if you can!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Verb

1. Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.): "infringe a copyright".
2. Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on: "infringe on his privacy".




Your word for the day.

You have to examine the use of the word when it was written. It means to invalidate.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not taken away without good reason.

just wait until they start applying that logic to speech and assembly

They've already been doing that.

Fairness Doctrine
Free speech zones (dog runs.)

 

[Uncensored2008]

You have to examine the use of the word when it was written. It means to invalidate.

ROFL

At the time of the second, "regulated" meant "ARMED."

"Well regulated" was simply well outfitted with regulation arms.

We can use photosho too - it ain't that clever.