CDZ What to do about a President who is mentally ill?

[Picaro]

I am not so sure psychiatrists and psychologists are right about Mr. Trump.
They can make mistakes.
At the end neither psychiatry nor psychology are exact sciences
And last but not least Trump ruled a business empire for many year. If he's mentally insane how was that possible?

He has a regional 'New Yorker' personality type, bombastic and aggressive, which just grates some people the wrong way. In real life, they tone it down and are just fine. Nothing he has done is really radical, at least by U.S. standards, he's just very good at slamming our own media and making them irrelevant; they are far more arrogant than any 10 Trumps, and intelligence isn't a job requirement for them. Once one knows how much money they stand to lose if they can't influence elections as much as they used to here, it's easy enough to dismiss the current dishonest tabloid nonsense for what it is, garbage. The press in the U.S., unfortunately, isn't required to tell the truth about anything, and frequently doesn't. It is also dominated by billionaire ownership, and they have their own axes to grind, many times with each other.

 

[esthermoon]

It's the same thing here for what concerns the press Picaro. They always tell lies and the truth is almost vacant. I think 99% of reporters are the same all over the world or at least they act the same

 

[Divine Wind]

I am not so sure psychiatrists and psychologists are right about Mr. Trump.
They can make mistakes.
At the end neither psychiatry nor psychology are exact sciences
And last but not least Trump ruled a business empire for many year. If he's mentally insane how was that possible?

Observing behavior can be accurate, but mistakes are made.

OJ Simpson was a multimillionaire sports start, but obviously has mental issues.

John McAfee is a tech genius, but also a wackadoodle wanted for murder.
John McAfee Accused of Rape and Murder in Explosive New Doc
Globe-trotting antivirus inventor, gun-happy wackadoo, and failed 2016 Libertarian presidential hopeful John McAfee hasn’t yet outrun his troubles in Belize, from whence he fled in 2012 as local authorities sought him in connection to the brutal murder of his neighbor. In the explosive new documentary Gringo, Oscar-nominated filmmaker Nanette Burstein unveils new information tying McAfee to the killing of American expat Greg Faull—as well as stunning allegations accusing the tech magnate of an unrelated rape and murder in the Central American paradise.

 

[Divine Wind]

I wonder if his cult will still support him when they see the mushroom cloud over DC? The man is totally mentally ill and Bannon is using him to take the US government down. Putin planted the orange clown.

No doubt the numbers would be balanced by Hillary cult followers applauding.

 

[Divine Wind]

Remarkable

psychologists can now make clinical decisions about someone's mental health by watching them make speeches on television.

Were they also able to determine if he has cancer, diabetes, lupus, arthritis, rheumatism, ingrown toenails, or any of a myriad of other complaints?

Most psychology is observing. Although treatment shouldn't be based "by watching them make speeches", FBI profilers, airport behavioral profilers and other psychology experts do make accurate analyses based on observation, even through security cameras.

 

[JimH52]

I am not so sure psychiatrists and psychologists are right about Mr. Trump.
They can make mistakes.
At the end neither psychiatry nor psychology are exact sciences
And last but not least Trump ruled a business empire for many year. If he's mentally insane how was that possible?

Observing behavior can be accurate, but mistakes are made.

OJ Simpson was a multimillionaire sports start, but obviously has mental issues.

John McAfee is a tech genius, but also a wackadoodle wanted for murder.
John McAfee Accused of Rape and Murder in Explosive New Doc
Globe-trotting antivirus inventor, gun-happy wackadoo, and failed 2016 Libertarian presidential hopeful John McAfee hasn’t yet outrun his troubles in Belize, from whence he fled in 2012 as local authorities sought him in connection to the brutal murder of his neighbor. In the explosive new documentary Gringo, Oscar-nominated filmmaker Nanette Burstein unveils new information tying McAfee to the killing of American expat Greg Faull—as well as stunning allegations accusing the tech magnate of an unrelated rape and murder in the Central American paradise.

And now a Whacko had been elected president.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Not CDZ material

 

[Auld Phart]

psychologists can now make clinical decisions about someone's mental health by watching them make speeches on television.

No, they cannot. Dr. Gartner made as much clear in the article. Did you click on the link I provided and read the whole thing? The same thing was alluded to in at least one of the videos. Did you miss that too?

Didn't click on the links, why should I?

The idea of making a mental evaluation based on air time is ridiculous.

Waste of time

 

[usmbguest5318]

psychologists can now make clinical decisions about someone's mental health by watching them make speeches on television.

No, they cannot. Dr. Gartner made as much clear in the article. Did you click on the link I provided and read the whole thing? The same thing was alluded to in at least one of the videos. Did you miss that too?

Didn't click on the links, why should I?

The idea of making a mental evaluation based on air time is ridiculous.

Waste of time

So you'd have the full picture and thus could have something constructive to add to the conversation.


...You know clicking by itself is just the start. You have to read once you get there.

 

[FA_Q2]

Why don't you post this in the FZ where it belongs?

Why don't you post this in the FZ where it belongs?

flame zone?

Conspiracy Theories would be a better forum

Is the CDZ being abused?

Why don't you post this in the FZ where it belongs?

flame zone?

Conspiracy Theories would be a better forum

That works too. Just seems like the purpose is to piss somebody off. Funny thing is, we've just gone through 8 years of temper tantrums and passive aggression from a certifiable malignant narcissist. It's like ignoring the elephant in the room.

The claim that Trump is supposedly mentally ill is just more BS from the left who is desperate to try and make him look bad at all costs.

If anybody displayed symptoms of mental illness it's the delusional old bat Nancy Pelosi. You just can't take what she says seriously.

Really?

• Was not one of you capable of offering substantive commentary that shows the circumstantial information to be circumstantially wrong by dint of it not aligning with the condition Dr. Gartner suspects Trump has?
• Did you really have nothing to offer besides purely partisan defensive deflection?

That's the limit of your ability to contribute to a serious discussion on the matter?

If any of you had bothered to read the full article, you'd have seen that I left out of the post the commentary from various politicians. That should have been enough for you to see that the aim here is to discuss the physiological correlation between the observed behavior of the POTUS and mental illness. If you really just haven't anything substantive to offer, you could just not post at all. That at least would be polite.

Well, here is a psychiatrist that claims liberalism itself is a mental disorder:
Veteran psychiatrist calls liberals mentally ill

Or we can look at another analysis claiming Obama to have NPD.
Obama’s Mental Illness Justifies His Removal from Office Under the 25th Amendment - Freedom Outpost

Or, conversely, we can acknowledge that it is a massive waste of time refuting these non-fact and asinine charges. We know that you cannot diagnose a patent from afar and a psychiatrist claiming that they have suspicions that Trump or Obama have NPD just expose them for the quacks that they are. A real doctor would not play so lose with what they do or the inherent sensitive nature of what they are claiming. It is CLEARLY a political gesture not based in medical fact but rather in trying to make a loud statement and get 15 min of fame.

I was not impressed when the right did it. I am not impressed when the political partisans on the left do it either. No one is going to bother refuting your silly claims because they clearly belong in the FZ.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Well, here is a psychiatrist that claims liberalism itself is a mental disorder:
Veteran psychiatrist calls liberals mentally ill

I'm not concerned with whether the behavior is liberal or conservative. Whether there's a political strategy involved isn't a point I've tried to make. Yet those are the points the article you've linked tries to make. That article attempts to make a claim about literally millions of people -- liberals -- whom he doesn't specifically identify and to whom he ascribes the collective creation of a strategy based on mental illness. The author makes clear that even though he cites two individuals as examples, his charge is far broader and is just of liberals in general. I wouldn't present that article as a basis for anything because its claims are too general to be of any value beyond entertainment.

That's not what I'm here to claim nor what I created the thread to discuss.

Or we can look at another analysis claiming Obama to have NPD.
Obama’s Mental Illness Justifies His Removal from Office Under the 25th Amendment - Freedom Outpost

This article's author makes an initial claim similar to that of Dr. Gartner, and that would be fine but for the fact that your article's author doesn't support his claim credibly in relation to a speculative diagnosis of NPD. For example, the author writes:

• "We are five days away from fundamentally transforming America." Very few Americans had any idea what Obama meant by that quote. Six years into his presidency, it is clear that Obama meant to turn this country into an impoverished nation devoid of civil liberties. This is the ultimate expression of the communist legacy that he is trying to build.
  
  • Fabrication: The U.S. not now, nor at any point in Obama's presidency, was or became an impoverished nation. On the contrary, by absolute or average GDP, for the entirety of Obama's Presidency, the U.S. has been #1 or #1 in the world.
  • Non-sequitur: Even if Obama's intent were to turn the U.S. into an "impoverished nation," doing so is not a manifestation of NPD.
  • Non-sequitur: Even if the claim were so, "expression of communism" is not a manifestation of NPD.
• This president does not tolerate normal criticism which comes with the territory of being a president. He has consistently sponsored legislation which inhibits the constitutionally guaranteed rights of legitimate protest with his support of the NDAA. This is the ultimate in haughtiness.
  
  • Non-sequitur: Signing the legislation that Congress submitted to him and that fund the DoD has nothing to do with and does not illustrate that Obama does not countenance the "normal criticism" a President faces.
• Obama exhibits extreme signs of feeling a sense of entitlement. His incessant misuse of the power of executive orders provides prima fascia evidence that "his will be done" and that he is above the law.
  
  • Hypothesis contrary to fact: Executive orders are part of the legitimate and Congressionally granted powers of a President.

It'd be one thing if Hodges made claims that show a clear equivalence between exhibited behavior and NPD, but he doesn't. What he does is (1) declare Obama has XYZ intents and then say the declared by Hodges intent indicates an aspect of NPD, or (2) falsely claim that X is not within the scope of Presidential powers; therefore the President using that power indicates entitlement, or (3) utterly fabricates a correlation between an NPD trait and an observed outcome resulting from collaboration between the Congress and the WH, and then declare those things that are all of Hodges' fabrication indicate collectively that Obama has NPD.

 

[longknife]

Another butthurt Leftard thread

 

[Divine Wind]

And now a Whacko had been elected president.

Yeah. Too bad the Democrats are so dishonest and corrupt they couldn't have run a better candidate. I'd have voted for James Webb in a heartbeat.

 

[HenryBHough]

I believe America's recently ended experience with a narcissistic sociopath suggests there is nothing to be done. Except, of course, by the election process.

 

[12icer]

The op in this thread Seems to lack real proof of the premise it suggests. We have the highest IQ president we have had in MANY years, and he is much more stable and has a much quicker and more multiplanic mental capacity than any dimshitscum that have decided to block his agenda. If you think he is unstable then you must have found his predecessor a complete straightjacket case.

 

[Divine Wind]

I believe America's recently ended experience with a narcissistic sociopath suggests there is nothing to be done. Except, of course, by the election process.

LOL

Love the signature because it's true:
Democrat Party has new religious school!
"Our Lady of Perpetual Outrage"
Tuition free for the submissive.

 

[usmbguest5318]

NPD is manifest by consistently displaying any five of the following behaviors:

• Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
  • Trump: "I alone can fix it."
    
    
    
    Contrast that with his predecessors who said:
    • 1968 - Nixon --> "Without God's help and your help, we will surely fail; but with God's help and your help, we shall surely succeed."
    • 1980 - Reagan --> "I ask you not simply to ‘Trust me,' but to trust your values—our values—and to hold me responsible for living up to them."
    • 2000 - Bush --> "I know the presidency is an office that turns pride into prayer."
  • Claimed to know Putin, but does not. In fact, he goes from knowing Putin "very well" to not knowing "who Putin is."
    • 2015 Radio Interview: (Hear the interview here.)
      Michael Savage: "Have you ever met Vladimir Putin?"
      Trump: "Yes."
    • Republican Debate: "I got to know him very well because we were both on 60 Minutes."
      • False: Here's the Deal With That Putin '60 Minutes' Episode Trump Mentioned
    • July 2016: "I never met Putin. I don't know who Putin is."
      
  • His entire business career appears focused on creating the impression that this is one successful, brilliant, power guy. But he’s actually been a pretty mediocre businessman according to most yardsticks. (See also: Donald Trump’s business failings, explained)
• Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
  • "We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College." Thinks he won the electoral college by a landslide. He won it. He didn't win by a landslide. 56% does not a landslide make, much less a "massive" one as he claimed on Fox with Chris Wallace.
    
    
    
    
  • Everything he says he's done or will do is "fantastic," "great," "the best ever," etc.
  • His entire business career appears focused on creating the impression that this is one successful, brilliant, power guy. But he’s actually been a pretty mediocre businessman according to most yardsticks. (See also: Donald Trump’s business failings, explained)
  • Trump:
    • "You know, it really doesn’t matter what (the media) write as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass."
    • "Wonderful looking while on the ice but up close and personal, she could only be described as attractive if you like a woman with a bad complexion who is built like a linebacker"
• Believe that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with other special or high-status people (or institutions)
• Requires excessive admiration
  • When he was supposed to be eulogizing his father, he spoke more about himself than his father and described his father's greatest achievement as raising Donald. "Where others spoke of their memories of Fred Trump, [Donald] spoke of Fred Trump’s endorsement."
  • "All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me – consciously or unconsciously. That’s to be expected."
• Has a sense of entitlement
  • Stated that he could grab women by the p*ssy.
  • Walks into women's dressing rooms
  • Cornered a reporter and said to her, "You know we’re going to have an affair, don’t you?...We’re going to have an affair, I’m telling you.
  • "All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me – consciously or unconsciously. That’s to be expected."
    
  • "One of my ex-wives once said to me, ‘You have to work at a marriage.’ And I said, ‘That’s the most ridiculous thing.’”
• Is exploitative
  • After 9/11, Donald Trump — not a “small business” — took advantage of $150,000 in government funds to help small businesses.
    
  • "I’ll sue her because it would be fun. I look forward to suing Rosie. ‘I’m gonna sue her and I look forward to it."
• Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
  • When he was supposed to be eulogizing his father, he spoke more about himself than his father and described his father's greatest achievement as raising Donald. "Where others spoke of their memories of Fred Trump, [Donald] spoke of Fred Trump’s endorsement."
    
  • Publicly attacked the parents of of a fallen soldier, people of who the only reason anyone even knows who they are is because their son died in action serving in the U.S. armed forces.
  • Belittled POWs for being captured.
  • Bragged about sexually assaulting women and getting away with it. (See also: 10 U.S. Code § 920 - Art. 120. Rape and sexual assault generally)
  • "I think that putting a wife to work is a very dangerous thing. Unfortunately, after they're a star, the fun is over for me."
• Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
  • "The old rich may look down their noses at me, but I think they kiss my ass."
• Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.
  • President Donald Trump warned in a phone call with his Mexican counterpart that he was ready to send U.S. troops to stop "bad hombres down there" unless the Mexican military does more to control them, according to an excerpt of a transcript of the conversation obtained by The Associated Press.
    
  • "Only I can fix it." (See above)
  • "When I come home and dinner's not ready, I go through the roof."
  • "I think that putting a wife to work is a very dangerous thing. Unfortunately, after they're a star, the fun is over for me."

That Trump exhibits the signs of NPD isn't in question. What's important is what to do about it. The first thing that needs to be done is that he needs to be evaluated. Maybe he doesn't have NPD, but it sure looks like it. If it turns out he does have NPD, the what is the country to do about it? Do we just ignore it? Do we implore Congress to apply the 25th Amendment? If the man's ill, the country needs to do something besides just let him run the nation with his disorder running at full tilt.

 

[flacaltenn]

Subject of this thread does not encourage a "clean debate". Not sufficient evidence of mental incapacity, too many other jabs shoved in about "polling results". Please don't put retail political brawls into the CDZ.. Closed...