What purpose does God Serve?

[vincubus]

Following your posts, it seems that your focus on Christian structure, has diverted you from the purpose of that structure. How do you distinguish between God and the church, or society, or culture, when you refuse to face conscience as an individual? No club, group, or society, is going to get you into heaven, by itself, neither are your perceptions limited to theirs. Your relationship to the Powers that be, is as an individual first, all else is secondary. Everyone is so tempted in selling their brand, that we fail to recognize that all of our perspectives are limited. Through Conscience we communicate with our maker, King Solomon once used the term "Sincerity of Heart". There is no one to lead you by the nose in matters of conscience, but your own being. The names or words you use when you pray, your concern.

How can I prove God exists to someone that doesn't want God to be real? Why wouldn't someone want God to be real? What burden would instill such determination? As an Individual I believe that there is little beyond the grasp of reconciliation. I believe that God's Purpose for creating each on of us trumps all of our screw ups, our reason for being is more important that the tangents we choose. I believe, as an Individual, that the message from birth, is and has always been, (God) seek Me first, in all things, return to me when you find yourself in error, and it will be healed.

How can I prove God exists.... how does one share in God's presence? Should I find myself in a Lightening storm on the beach at Robert Moses State Park, at natures mercy, should I find myself in a life and death situation of any kind, my first response is to pray, and cleanse, while focusing on doing what needs to be done.

I'll tell you that one thing I will never again do in my life is blame God, for what we do to each other, with the free will He gave us.

no one can prove their god. that is where faith comes in. faith creates existence. that faith is a subjective, individual force, and yet christians especially are prone to tell others that there god IS god, and do so lacking any shred of proof. you have done it also. and when pressed to offer proof that is stand alone and objective, y'all cannot, and backpeddle into the truth, and that is that your god is only subjective. then stop telling others that your god is the god. smile.

not only do y'all tell others that your god is the god, then y'all all but demand (and in some cases that to) that others live by your gods standards. without being able to objectively prove your god. others have their own gods, or dont accept your god. some, like me, had worshiped your god, and now have jettisoned ourselves from that system, and will not return to our vomit. we reject heaven. and....sigh....y'all cannot...cannot seem to grasp that you must talk to others from where they are. the concept of hell in its present form is pagan in origins and evolved over the years. i have been threatened with hell, even though i had emphatically stated i do not believe in hell!! Lol! i am not a christian, and yet you talk to me of your heaven and how i cannot get there but one way. do not y 'all listen? do not y'all have the ability to unthink your doctrine when dealing with others?

i do not not believe in your god, but i believe in my own version. fortunately, my own version doesn't demand i pester others with it, doesn't demand anyone sacrifice, and doesn't tell me i must shun, condemn, hate, or condescend to others.

christianity can be a decent religion. christians, some of them, are another story. i will attack the haters, the frauds, the abusers where they live, and that is in their religion. that is their shell of deceit and yes, i do have the right to judge. i too have read y'alls book.

A little angry at the world are we? Is this as Caffine or medication issue? I have no issue with the name one calls God by, or the words they use when they pray. I am not concerned with denomination or brand, Christian or non christian. The only place I would direct you is toand through your own conscience. Why the need to throw stones at others? You might also want to work on your reading retention. You have no obligation to me or anyone else, piss your life away screwing with others if you will, you alone are responsible for where, whin, and if you find yourself. Have a nice day. I owe, Iowe, so off to work I go.

i dont know. are you a little angry at the world? i am not, it is just a twirling ball of rock, water and mud spinning through the universe at a brisk clip. ohhhh...you mean am i angry at ppl? ppl are mean, spiteful, arrogant, selfish, trite and hateful. they are also magnanimous, warm, compassionate, intelligent and open minded. in short, they are behaving just as they are intended to, and that is perfection. i dont hate perfection. however, if we stand around while there are injustices done, like those perpetrated by bullies, the ignorant, and the low level sociopaths, then we are by our inaction complicit in their actions.

if yoiur definition of being angry at the "world" means standing up for those oppressed, then sure, i am angry at the world. that you so easily slot me into such a catagory based on the flimsiest of circumstance indicates to me you have a closed mind. i would prefer that you prove that wrong.

 

[vincubus]

i had been a born again for 20+ years. i know many fine christians. when i was senior mod in a pagan chat/posting room, there were a few christians who were regulars. i defended them against the rabid attacks because i knew them for what they are/were. decent, committed christians who serve their god with every ounce of their being. they exuded love (love, btw, is the one force that cannot be fought against successfully).

i would agree that most christians aren't pushy. they understand that to get respect you have to give it. pretending to be a friend to gain converts is transparent to all but the extremely dull. sadly, it is the "god squad" that accosted me on my way into town while stationed outside of memphis, the christians who will tell you that the gaping maw of hell awaits and you are a foul sinner, the ones who tell an individual who has made some mistakes in their past that they are bad, who set the tone for many "recovering catholics", escaping christians, and seekers of a better fitting system. i recall a lady friend who was smacked to salvation by her southern baptist mother, and a baptist minister who would't allow his family to have any contact with their lesbian daughter because she was a sinner. i talked with the woman at length. she was bitter, but still loved her father. hers was not a choice, but a determination made at birth. and because of the doctrine that says sin is a choice, she was shunned.

religion-or darn near anything else- in the hands of the ignorant is a dangerous thing. religion however, is something that resonates deeply within most of us, and transcends reason for many who abuse religion out of the best intentions, but abuse it none the less.

the christian religion has evolved. that is apparent to a great many who do not believe, and became apparent to a great many who did at one time believe. to give in to a system that is at times contradictory and has evolved is intellectually dishonest. to then try and even persuade a former christian or informed seeker is almost an insult to their intelligence. lol! i had hung out in an abio-gensis site for a time, and the well meaning christians who came in to do "battle" with the evolutionists seemed so....out gunned intellectually i began to feel sorry for them. i would cringe, hoping they wouldn't make total fools of themselves. it was embarrassing to me...maybe not to them. but they just had no tools to use. they were seen as greatly inferior. how can such a person mount any credible defense? they then shame their god in the eyes of others, and so become the butt of jokes.

For me, Christianity that is understood and practiced only intellectually is no different from any other religion that is understood and practiced only intellectually. For me Christianity is a relationship that is real; an experience that cannot be explained away intellectually, and I do not think many, if any, who have entered into that relationship stop believing.

This of course does not stop Christians, like any other people, from being wrong, from holding onto notions that seem absurd to you and me, or from being damn fools. Neverthless, I long ago concluded that God is far less interested in our theology than he is interested in that relationship. And while I am not fundamentalist and try not to be irrational or too embarrasing, I cannot deny that it is some of the most 'wrong', absurd, narrow minded, dogmatic, judgmental, embarassing, damn fool Chrsitians who are running those soup kitchens and homeless shelters etc. and who are ministering to some of the world's poorest people in some of the world's most miserable places. Many if not most of the world's more enlightened don't seem to be doing that.

And perhaps religion in the hands of the ignorant is inevitably a dangerous thing, but in a dangerous world, in dangerous territory, where would you feel the most secure? Where would you feel that others would most likely care about your well being and safety? Among Christians and/or Jews? Or with other folks? I think there is a reason that neighborhoods and communities with a lot of Christian churches and a majority of church-going people almost always enjoy less crime, more prosperity, more generally satisfying quality of life. All this is to say that despite all its ugliest chapters in history, Christianity overall has generally been a more positive than negative influence everywhere it has been planted.

I can't imagine that many people are led to Christ by being told they are going to hell. And I doubt many are persuaded by anti-evolutionists or those who insist the universe is little more than 6,000 years old. Isn't it a good thing that few Christians push such theories? But you can't dismiss the fact that many of those who do are among those doing some of the best work to make the world a less hostile, more compassionate place.

But then I am one who believes that God uses all sorts of people, believers and non believers alike, for various purposes. I don't think you have to be Christian to be a great person. But I also don't think being Christian ever disqualifies somebody from that either.

youi strike a pose of balance. i appreciate that, as i often try to as well. i will not relate some of my life experience, but i have found a great deal of compassion among the "sinners", although i understand you might have noted the opposite.

we disagree on much, but i respect your tone, and your balance. i will anticipate reading further posts from you on a variety of subjects. i am sure i will learn from you. if that is a responsibility you do not want, i apologize.

 

[JBeukema]

The purpose of religion is control of the ignorant masses.

 

[Intense]

The purpose of religion is control of the ignorant masses.

And my wife has been trying to train me to put the toilet seat down for 20 + years. Good luck with that. Training the masses.... probably end up with about 12 minutes of retention. One of my favorite reads, "The Fountainhead", had a character that built a news paper empire, thinking he controlled the masses, things didn't end up the way he thought.

 

[vincubus]

The purpose of religion is control of the ignorant masses.

to me, there is a dif between religion and god. i do agree with your assessment to a degree, since i see religion as a lagging social factor that acts as a bake on social evolution, and to be the repository of social mores.

 

[Foxfyre]

we disagree on much, but i respect your tone, and your balance. i will anticipate reading further posts from you on a variety of subjects. i am sure i will learn from you. if that is a responsibility you do not want, i apologize.

Thank you. It is most pleasant to actually have a pleasant discussion that includes opposing points of view. You may or may know how very rare it is to have such an opportunity in these kinds of forums. We would have a more civil and peaceful society and world if people could learn that it is possible to disagree profoundly without either party being evil or even necessarily wrong.

 

[vincubus]

we disagree on much, but i respect your tone, and your balance. i will anticipate reading further posts from you on a variety of subjects. i am sure i will learn from you. if that is a responsibility you do not want, i apologize.

Thank you. It is most pleasant to actually have a pleasant discussion that includes opposing points of view. You may or may know how very rare it is to have such an opportunity in these kinds of forums. We would have a more civil and peaceful society and world if people could learn that it is possible to disagree profoundly without either party being evil or even necessarily wrong.

you are most welcome. i do know how rare it is. jamie and i finally began a forum for just civilized if heated discussion, but we dont allow flaming. naturally, since we emphasize quality over quantity, our 50s or so posters aren't excessively active, so we tour other sites in search of intelligent life. lol!

i think we often inject our ego into our discussions, and so another person rejecting our ideas we see as an affront, and react accordingly. then too, we all remain hidden behind our monitors, and can act more as we want to. that thought isn't a pleasant one.

 

[Amanda]

we disagree on much, but i respect your tone, and your balance. i will anticipate reading further posts from you on a variety of subjects. i am sure i will learn from you. if that is a responsibility you do not want, i apologize.

Thank you. It is most pleasant to actually have a pleasant discussion that includes opposing points of view. You may or may know how very rare it is to have such an opportunity in these kinds of forums. We would have a more civil and peaceful society and world if people could learn that it is possible to disagree profoundly without either party being evil or even necessarily wrong.

Do do realize you're having a "pleasant discussion" with someone that also tells other to STFU and sometimes mistakenly signs the wrong name to the post, right?

In other words... don't believe the hype.

 

[JBeukema]

we disagree on much, but i respect your tone, and your balance. i will anticipate reading further posts from you on a variety of subjects. i am sure i will learn from you. if that is a responsibility you do not want, i apologize.

Thank you. It is most pleasant to actually have a pleasant discussion that includes opposing points of view. You may or may know how very rare it is to have such an opportunity in these kinds of forums. We would have a more civil and peaceful society and world if people could learn that it is possible to disagree profoundly without either party being evil or even necessarily wrong.

Do do realize you're having a "pleasant discussion" with someone that[...] sometimes mistakenly signs the wrong name to the post, right?

When was this?

 

[Amanda]

Thank you. It is most pleasant to actually have a pleasant discussion that includes opposing points of view. You may or may know how very rare it is to have such an opportunity in these kinds of forums. We would have a more civil and peaceful society and world if people could learn that it is possible to disagree profoundly without either party being evil or even necessarily wrong.

Do do realize you're having a "pleasant discussion" with someone that[...] sometimes mistakenly signs the wrong name to the post, right?

When was this?

The name signing thing? I'd have to dig it up, but I made sure I quoted it before it was edited. I'm too drunk right now to search effectively, but if you really need some proof I'll hunt it up in the next few days. I've also asked why that happened repeatedly and "Jamie"/Vinny NEVER even attempt an answer.

 

[vincubus]

Thank you. It is most pleasant to actually have a pleasant discussion that includes opposing points of view. You may or may know how very rare it is to have such an opportunity in these kinds of forums. We would have a more civil and peaceful society and world if people could learn that it is possible to disagree profoundly without either party being evil or even necessarily wrong.

Do do realize you're having a "pleasant discussion" with someone that[...] sometimes mistakenly signs the wrong name to the post, right?

When was this?

lol!! when i first came here, i signed in under jamies nic and made three posts, then opened my own account. someone claimed we were sockpuppets, and i was banned, then the truth was revealed, and i got my nic back. we sent an admin our web site so he could see us both having posted thread and pics there months prior to arriving at the shores of this forum. of course, no doiubt the other 48 or so posters are also our sockpuppets. we even traveled to minnesota to share a meal with a christian family i admire because of the calmness and reason of his posting style on our site and another one that he and i both post to, but he must also be a sockpuppet of me. or jamie.

most of the posters at our site were/are handpicked by us. we either know them in the real world, or have encoiuntered them elsewhere. a few have wandered in from the frozen tundra of the posting world.

someone is just having a hissy fit. and it aint me and it aint jamie.

 

[Amanda]

Do do realize you're having a "pleasant discussion" with someone that[...] sometimes mistakenly signs the wrong name to the post, right?

When was this?

lol!! when i first came here, i signed in under jamies nic and made three posts, then opened my own account. someone claimed we were sockpuppets, and i was banned, then the truth was revealed, and i got my nic back. we sent an admin our web site so he could see us both having posted thread and pics there months prior to arriving at the shores of this forum. of course, no doiubt the other 48 or so posters are also our sockpuppets. we even traveled to minnesota to share a meal with a christian family i admire because of the calmness and reason of his posting style on our site and another one that he and i both post to, but he must also be a sockpuppet of me. or jamie.

most of the posters at our site were/are handpicked by us. we either know them in the real world, or have encoiuntered them elsewhere. a few have wandered in from the frozen tundra of the posting world.

someone is just having a hissy fit. and it aint me and it aint jamie.

Yea, nice try.

You'll note JB that Vinny goes to a lot of trouble to write in all lower case and mis-spell common words like their/there, etc. So when you see a post in Vinny-style that is signed "Jamie" it's pretty obvious what's going on despite the attempt at spin you just heard.

Bottom line is Vinny thinks we're all stupid enough that he can fool us. What every USMB poster should be asking themselves is: Are you that stupid?

 

[kam1975]

to that comment about blaming eve and stuff
i am not eve
i didnt make that choice
i didnt do it
not sorry but hello
also man could have said no
she offered
but he accepted

ok
i believe there is a god
and i used to believe in god
but he did nothing for me then
and religious people
mainly extremists
explained to me
all the things i did wrong
and then explained me god cannot help me
wont help
and then explained why
becuase of the things i did wrong

hmm i didnt question it then
i do now

they werent god then
they are not god now

bottom line
i too have wondered what the purpose of god is in life
is it to simply judge the world and thats it

i agree with a nother poster
if we o i have to do everything myself
and have noticed when i do things
things get done
when i dont
they dont
i used to wait on god
however i am still waiting and really concerned and convinced
becuase i waited on god
i missed out
and most likely will forever miss out
becuase instead of doing something myself
i didnt
and asked god and waited

to sum it up
if i want something in my life
i have to do it myself
and to amazment
it gets done

bottom line
i could burn in hell for this
but
god needs to really be real
and not mysterious
becuase there needs to be more than just faith
people believe
and still it doenst happen

thanks

 

[rdean]

If humans are capable of doing things on our own....creating technology...creating medical "savior" procedures....Performing miracles using medicine and other techniques....etc

What is the purpose of God? In any religion?

Jamie

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves. Genesis 3:6-7

Many people in non Christian areas of the world go around naked all the time. No one even cares. Leave it to the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) to make the human body a "dirty" thing.

The original purpose of a God was a way to explain what then was unexplainable. Now a days, religion is used as a method of controlling people and by saying, "It's what God wants, giving people the license to do anything they want, no matter how evil or destructive".

There is this idea that this "GOD" could create these incredible biological systems as well as an entire universe filled with black holes millions to times larger than our own sun and all the other wonders and then worry if we wear two kinds of material or eat shrimp or who we "screw". It's insane.

The reason it's insane is because people are desperate to be "important". I'm so important that God reads my mind. No body cares what you think. No body.

Just the entire concept of this bearded Middle Eastern man with wizards robes is somehow the maker of the entire universe is so laughable, it's pathetic.

 

[watchingfromafar]

God Chose Them but For What Purpose?

This is the purpose-------------------

(Deu 7:6 KJV) For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

(Deu 7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

(Deu 7:9 KJV) Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

(Deu 7:11 KJV) Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.

(Deu 7:12 KJV) Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he swore unto thy fathers:

(Deu 7:13 KJV) And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kin, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

 

[Taz]

If humans are capable of doing things on our own....creating technology...creating medical "savior" procedures....Performing miracles using medicine and other techniques....etc

What is the purpose of God? In any religion?

Jamie

God makes people less afraid of the unknown, they're too busy being afraid of god.

 

[watchingfromafar]

the purpose continues----
God Chose Them but For What Purpose?

In my view God’s purpose is to give us instructions on how to live our lives. He could force us to do His bidding but instead He gave us the choice to follow His directive or not, The choice rests with us.

This is the purpose-------------------

(Mal 3:5 KJV) And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Jer 7:6 KJV) If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:

(Jer 22:3 KJV) Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.

 

[watchingfromafar]

purpose continues-----------

(Ezek 22:7 KJV) In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow.

(Zec 7:10 KJV) And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

(Exo 22:21 KJV) Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Exo 23:9 KJV) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Lev 19:34 KJV) But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

(Lev 25:35 KJV) And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

****If they do the above they will get the following in return****​

(Deu 7:13 KJV) And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and

 

[watchingfromafar]

God makes people less afraid of the unknown, they're too busy being afraid of god.

If you fear God you are lost in the dark shadows of dis-pear.
Love Him and He will love you in return.

 

[Taz]

God makes people less afraid of the unknown, they're too busy being afraid of god.

If you fear God you are lost in the dark shadows of dis-pear.
Love Him and He will love you in return.

Adam and Eve rejected god and we've been paying for it ever since. Loving a god that hates you won't do anything.