What Mahatma Gandhi said about the forced settlement of European Jews in Palestine

[abi]

...it took 45 years after the independence for India to allow Israeli Embassy in New Delhi, it was because of India's principled solidarity with the Palestinian cause that was against the forced settlement of Israelis in the Palestinian territory. And the origin behind this principled stand can be traced back to Mahatma Gandhi, our Father of the Nation, who believed that Israelis could settle in Palestine only with the permission from Arabs and it was wrong for them to enter with the might of the British gun....

But, he draws a line here saying his sympathy for the Jews cannot blind him to the requirements of justice.

He writes in his write-up, The Jews, in Harijan, "The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me." He says that Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French and it is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs."

Mahatma Gandhi says the settlement of the Jews in the Palestinian territory is akin to a religious act that rules out use of force, "The Palestine of the Biblical conception is not a geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs....
Why Mahatma Gandhi said no to forced settlement of Israelis in Palestine

Gandhi was a great man; the face of non-violent protest.

 

[Hollie]

...it took 45 years after the independence for India to allow Israeli Embassy in New Delhi, it was because of India's principled solidarity with the Palestinian cause that was against the forced settlement of Israelis in the Palestinian territory. And the origin behind this principled stand can be traced back to Mahatma Gandhi, our Father of the Nation, who believed that Israelis could settle in Palestine only with the permission from Arabs and it was wrong for them to enter with the might of the British gun....

But, he draws a line here saying his sympathy for the Jews cannot blind him to the requirements of justice.

He writes in his write-up, The Jews, in Harijan, "The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me." He says that Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French and it is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs."

Mahatma Gandhi says the settlement of the Jews in the Palestinian territory is akin to a religious act that rules out use of force, "The Palestine of the Biblical conception is not a geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs....
Why Mahatma Gandhi said no to forced settlement of Israelis in Palestine

Gandhi was a great man; the face of non-violent protest.

Did Ghandi ever read the Hamas Charter?

 

[abi]

You are only four decades off.

Did Ghandi ever read the Hamas Charter?

Gandhi died at age 78 in 1948; the document you refer to was written in 1988.

 

[Boston1]

Way to go Abi, I love it when they shoot themselves in the foot like tha,,,,,, Oh wait, I meant blow themselves up like that.

The fact that the pro pally faction will stoop to no low in an effort to forward their false diatribe is amazing

 

[RoccoR]

RE: What Mahatma Gandhi said about the forced settlement of European Jews in Palestine
※→ Hollie, abi, et al,

As charismatic as Ghandi was, we have to remember that that he died in January 1948, before the establishment of the Jewish National Home called Israel.

...it took 45 years after the independence for India to allow Israeli Embassy in New Delhi, it was because of India's principled solidarity with the Palestinian cause that was against the forced settlement of Israelis in the Palestinian territory. And the origin behind this principled stand can be traced back to Mahatma Gandhi, our Father of the Nation, who believed that Israelis could settle in Palestine only with the permission from Arabs and it was wrong for them to enter with the might of the British gun....

But, he draws a line here saying his sympathy for the Jews cannot blind him to the requirements of justice.

He writes in his write-up, The Jews, in Harijan, "The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me." He says that Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French and it is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs."

Mahatma Gandhi says the settlement of the Jews in the Palestinian territory is akin to a religious act that rules out use of force, "The Palestine of the Biblical conception is not a geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs....
Why Mahatma Gandhi said no to forced settlement of Israelis in Palestine

Gandhi was a great man; the face of non-violent protest.

Did Ghandi ever read the Hamas Charter?

(COMMENT)

When Ghandi talks about: "enter with the might of the British gun;" he was speaking as a anti-War activist that supported the Central Powers status quo (similar to a peace at any cost); and not in favor of the Allied Powers.

BTW: It was the Allied Powers that toppled the Ottoman Empire in the Great War; and it was the Allied Powers (the British Gun) again, that drove the Imperial Japanese Armed Forces back to the sea in WWII, defending India. If it had not been for the "British Gun" and the Southeast Asian or India-Burma (IBT) Commands --- New Delhi might be speaking Japanese today.

There is no question that Ghandi had an enormous impact on the development of humanity and the global views on politics of the time, there are clear cases where he was just as wrong as we generally believe him to be - intellectually correct.

Ghandi would not have approved of the half-century old tradition of terrorism by the Hostile Arab Palestinians, if he had lived long enough to see how they evolved into the culture of murder that they encourage.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[abi]

Ghandi would not have approved of the half-century old tradition of terrorism by the Hostile Arab Palestinians, if he had lived long enough to see how they evolved into the culture of murder that they encourage.

Of course he wouldn't, but none of that would even be an issue had the world heeded his warning:

...it is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs.

And it isn't a Arab tradition as your fantasy paints it; there have been acts of terrorism by Arabs for sure, but this is from a minute percentage of the Arab/Muslim population and as we have seen countless times, they learned this from the invading Jews.

Gandhi was absolutely right in this instance, prophetic even.

 

[Shusha]

... They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs....

One is compelled to ask why the Arabs would not have goodwill towards the Jewish people on their return home. One might also ask why the Jewish people would need someone else's permission to return home. And finally, because Tinmore is going to come here and say that the "Jews pigged the place", we would ask why the Jewish people should be permitted to return home but only if they live without the full civil rights afforded other peoples (such as the right to self-determination, sovereignty and independence).

 

[abi]

One is compelled to ask why the Arabs would not have goodwill towards the Jewish people...

No, this thread compels you to ask yourself if you agree or disagree with Gandhi.

...it is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs.

I would say to simply state whether or not you agree with the man, but we already know you do not.

 

[P F Tinmore]

... They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs....

One is compelled to ask why the Arabs would not have goodwill towards the Jewish people on their return home. One might also ask why the Jewish people would need someone else's permission to return home. And finally, because Tinmore is going to come here and say that the "Jews pigged the place", we would ask why the Jewish people should be permitted to return home but only if they live without the full civil rights afforded other peoples (such as the right to self-determination, sovereignty and independence).

The Palestinian Jews had the same rights as all of the other Palestinians.

 

[Shusha]

One is compelled to ask why the Arabs would not have goodwill towards the Jewish people...

No, this thread compels you to ask yourself if you agree or disagree with Gandhi.

...it is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs.

I would say to simply state whether or not you agree with the man, but we already know you do not.

I disagree with the idea that the Jewish people are the one peoples on the planet who must be prohibited from having a geographical territory within their ancestral and historical homeland under their own self-determination, sovereignty and independence. Which is EXACTLY what Gandhi is suggesting with his commentary. He believes the Jewish people -- and only the Jewish people -- were meant to be dispersed and scattered and be "people of the world" rather than a people with a national homeland. Gandhi is wrong on that. Just plain wrong.

Hey, here's any idea. How about the Arab Palestinians be the one peoples in the world who will NEVER be permitted to have a national homeland with self-determination, sovereignty and independence? Why don't you call for that instead?

 

[abi]

I disagree with the idea that the Jewish people are the one peoples on the planet who must be prohibited from having a geographical territory within their ancestral and historical homeland under their own self-determination, sovereignty and independence. Which is EXACTLY what Gandhi is suggesting with his commentary. He believes the Jewish people -- and only the Jewish people -- were meant to be dispersed and scattered and be "people of the world" rather than a people with a national homeland. Gandhi is wrong on that. Just plain wrong.

Not what Gandhi said. You keep pretending people take a position which they don't. He was clear that French Jews were French, English Jews were English, etc..

Hey, here's any idea. How about the Arab Palestinians be the one peoples in the world who will NEVER be permitted to have a national homeland with self-determination, sovereignty and independence? Why don't you call for that instead?

That is what is happening right now and has been for decades. That is also why this is about the most active forum on this board and dwarfs every every forum in the Global Discussion section.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: What Mahatma Gandhi said about the forced settlement of European Jews in Palestine
※→ abi, et al,

No one has seen such a thing as "invading Jews" for more than two millennium. There has not be a coordinated offensive action by a Jewish/Hebrew military force since the Jewish revolt against Heraclius (Byzantine–Sasanian War of ≈ 602–628 AD); and that was over the attempt by the Jews to to establish a self-governing institution in the same region (old Israel).

Now, there have been Jews represented in nearly every army of every major empire since the time of Emperor Vespasian. In fact, the Roman General that was second-in-command only to Titus, organized the two legions in putting down the Jewish Uprising (Tiberius Julius Alexander); and later was the Roman Prefect of Egypt (66–69 AD).

Ghandi would not have approved of the half-century old tradition of terrorism by the Hostile Arab Palestinians, if he had lived long enough to see how they evolved into the culture of murder that they encourage.

Of course he wouldn't, but none of that would even be an issue had the world heeded his warning:

...it is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs.

And it isn't a Arab tradition as your fantasy paints it; there have been acts of terrorism by Arabs for sure, but this is from a minute percentage of the Arab/Muslim population and as we have seen countless times, they learned this from the invading Jews.

Gandhi was absolutely right in this instance, prophetic even.

(COMMENT)

All organized military forces utilize fear, in some measure, as part of their strategy on an effect advance. The difference between the legitimate use of fear and the use of terrorism is that there is no apparent military objective to the targeting. A suicide bombing of a restaurant has no military value except to provoke a response. The hijacking of a civilian airliner has no military value other than coercion and blackmail.

Inciting, aiding or abetting, and attempting ⇒ are so plain and simple that it almost defies common sense. It is a forum on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. Keep that in mind, there are some acceptable reasoning points that need to be made.

When the talk about the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), we are talking about --- not all Arab/Muslims, but rather that segment of the Arab Palestinian Community that:

• To counter the influences that refused to make the best possible use of the capacities of the United Nations in areas such as conflict prevention, negotiation, mediation,conciliation, judicial settlement, rule of law, peacekeeping and peace-building, in order to contribute to the successful prevention and peaceful resolution of prolonged unresolved conflicts. This essentially bans the HoAP from Inciting, aiding or abetting, and attempting such negative activities which prevent dialogue, tolerance and understanding among civilizations, cultures, peoples and religions, and to promote mutual respect for and prevent the defamation of religions, religious values, beliefs and cultures.

• HoAP components in the communities that organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens.

• Does not cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to
justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing,
planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens.

• Those HoAP that assist, directly or indirectly, in crimes that might be connected with terrorism, including drug trafficking in all its aspects, illicit arms trade, in particular of small arms and light weapons, including man-portable air defence systems, money-laundering and smuggling other potentially deadly materials;

• Those HoAP that intentionally prevent Article 43 HR measures to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety. That attempt to shield all those HoAP purposely Incite riots and violence supporting those who commit offence which iare solely intended to harm the Occupying Power; and those guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons.​

Those that stand back and openly permit such --- provide any type of assistance to --- HoAP perpetrators are as guilty as the perpetrators themselves.

It doesn't matter where they acquired these abilities; what matters is that the otherwise peaceful Arab Palestinian that aiding or abetting such activity; even if they are not the principal offender. Throw rocks and firebombs that cause grievous bodily harm (GBH) or death, -- or just being with them is ⇒ cause for criminal prosecution.

That makes many, many, many (otherwise) peaceful Arab Palestinians criminal participants. Providing food and shelter to a criminal or terrorist is a form of facilitation in the evading arrest. But, most Arab Paestinians see themselves as beyond the law.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

Not what Gandhi said. You keep pretending people take a position which they don't. He was clear that French Jews were French, English Jews were English, etc..

This confirms my position, rather than disputes it. French Jews are FRENCH. English Jews are ENGLISH. Danish Jews are DANES. It confirms the denial of the Jewish people to a homeland of their own where they can just be JEWISH. Why can there not be a homeland for the Jewish people where Jews are just Jewish (Israeli)?

To put the reverse spin on it. Arab Palestinians are JORDANIAN. Arab Palestinians are SYRIANS. Arab Palestinians are LEBANESE. Arab Palestinians are EGYPTIANS. But Arab Palestinians are never permitted to just be Palestinians.

That is what is happening right now and has been for decades. That is also why this is about the most active forum on this board and dwarfs every every forum in the Global Discussion section.

Don't be ridiculous. No one on this board has EVER said that the Arab Palestinian people can not have a national homeland. Ever. Israel has never denied the Palestinians a national homeland on principle. What is required is for Arab Palestinians (just like other groups vying for a national homeland) to first adopt basic concepts like mutual recognition, negotiation and peace.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: What Mahatma Gandhi said about the forced settlement of European Jews in Palestine
※→ abi, et al,

No one has seen such a thing as "invading Jews" for more than two millennium. There has not be a coordinated offensive action by a Jewish/Hebrew military force since the Jewish revolt against Heraclius (Byzantine–Sasanian War of ≈ 602–628 AD); and that was over the attempt by the Jews to to establish a self-governing institution in the same region (old Israel).

Now, there have been Jews represented in nearly every army of every major empire since the time of Emperor Vespasian. In fact, the Roman General that was second-in-command only to Titus, organized the two legions in putting down the Jewish Uprising (Tiberius Julius Alexander); and later was the Roman Prefect of Egypt (66–69 AD).

Ghandi would not have approved of the half-century old tradition of terrorism by the Hostile Arab Palestinians, if he had lived long enough to see how they evolved into the culture of murder that they encourage.

Of course he wouldn't, but none of that would even be an issue had the world heeded his warning:

...it is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs.

And it isn't a Arab tradition as your fantasy paints it; there have been acts of terrorism by Arabs for sure, but this is from a minute percentage of the Arab/Muslim population and as we have seen countless times, they learned this from the invading Jews.

Gandhi was absolutely right in this instance, prophetic even.

(COMMENT)

All organized military forces utilize fear, in some measure, as part of their strategy on an effect advance. The difference between the legitimate use of fear and the use of terrorism is that there is no apparent military objective to the targeting. A suicide bombing of a restaurant has no military value except to provoke a response. The hijacking of a civilian airliner has no military value other than coercion and blackmail.

Inciting, aiding or abetting, and attempting ⇒ are so plain and simple that it almost defies common sense. It is a forum on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. Keep that in mind, there are some acceptable reasoning points that need to be made.

When the talk about the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), we are talking about --- not all Arab/Muslims, but rather that segment of the Arab Palestinian Community that:

• To counter the influences that refused to make the best possible use of the capacities of the United Nations in areas such as conflict prevention, negotiation, mediation,conciliation, judicial settlement, rule of law, peacekeeping and peace-building, in order to contribute to the successful prevention and peaceful resolution of prolonged unresolved conflicts. This essentially bans the HoAP from Inciting, aiding or abetting, and attempting such negative activities which prevent dialogue, tolerance and understanding among civilizations, cultures, peoples and religions, and to promote mutual respect for and prevent the defamation of religions, religious values, beliefs and cultures.

• HoAP components in the communities that organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens.

• Does not cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to
justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing,
planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens.

• Those HoAP that assist, directly or indirectly, in crimes that might be connected with terrorism, including drug trafficking in all its aspects, illicit arms trade, in particular of small arms and light weapons, including man-portable air defence systems, money-laundering and smuggling other potentially deadly materials;

• Those HoAP that intentionally prevent Article 43 HR measures to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety. That attempt to shield all those HoAP purposely Incite riots and violence supporting those who commit offence which iare solely intended to harm the Occupying Power; and those guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons.​

Those that stand back and openly permit such --- provide any type of assistance to --- HoAP perpetrators are as guilty as the perpetrators themselves.

It doesn't matter where they acquired these abilities; what matters is that the otherwise peaceful Arab Palestinian that aiding or abetting such activity; even if they are not the principal offender. Throw rocks and firebombs that cause grievous bodily harm (GBH) or death, -- or just being with them is ⇒ cause for criminal prosecution.

That makes many, many, many (otherwise) peaceful Arab Palestinians criminal participants. Providing food and shelter to a criminal or terrorist is a form of facilitation in the evading arrest. But, most Arab Paestinians see themselves as beyond the law.

Most Respectfully,
R

The difference between the legitimate use of fear and the use of terrorism is that there is no apparent military objective to the targeting.

I read someplace a long time ago that the common thread to so called terrorism was not religion but occupation/colonialism. The message sent was get the fuck out.

Terrorism is a name calling thing by the colonizers/occupiers.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Not what Gandhi said. You keep pretending people take a position which they don't. He was clear that French Jews were French, English Jews were English, etc..

This confirms my position, rather than disputes it. French Jews are FRENCH. English Jews are ENGLISH. Danish Jews are DANES. It confirms the denial of the Jewish people to a homeland of their own where they can just be JEWISH. Why can there not be a homeland for the Jewish people where Jews are just Jewish (Israeli)?

To put the reverse spin on it. Arab Palestinians are JORDANIAN. Arab Palestinians are SYRIANS. Arab Palestinians are LEBANESE. Arab Palestinians are EGYPTIANS. But Arab Palestinians are never permitted to just be Palestinians.

That is what is happening right now and has been for decades. That is also why this is about the most active forum on this board and dwarfs every every forum in the Global Discussion section.

Don't be ridiculous. No one on this board has EVER said that the Arab Palestinian people can not have a national homeland. Ever. Israel has never denied the Palestinians a national homeland on principle. What is required is for Arab Palestinians (just like other groups vying for a national homeland) to first adopt basic concepts like mutual recognition, negotiation and peace.

Don't be ridiculous. No one on this board has EVER said that the Arab Palestinian people can not have a national homeland.

As long as it is not in their homeland but someplace else like Jordan.

 

[Shusha]

As long as it is not in their homeland but someplace else like Jordan.

Which is EXACTLY my original point on this thread. This is what Gandhi was saying. That the Jewish people can't have a home in their homeland. That the Jewish homeland is the diaspora. This is wrong. It is hypocritical.

If the Arab Palestinian homeland is not in Jordan, then the Jewish homeland is certainly not in Poland.

If we are to apply that concept equally there is only one solution. BOTH the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinian people should have a national home in their homeland. Its not rocket science.

 

[Shusha]

The difference between the legitimate use of fear and the use of terrorism is that there is no apparent military objective to the targeting. A suicide bombing of a restaurant has no military value except to provoke a response. The hijacking of a civilian airliner has no military value other than coercion and blackmail.

This. This. A thousand times this.

 

[P F Tinmore]

As long as it is not in their homeland but someplace else like Jordan.

Which is EXACTLY my original point on this thread. This is what Gandhi was saying. That the Jewish people can't have a home in their homeland. That the Jewish homeland is the diaspora. This is wrong. It is hypocritical.

If the Arab Palestinian homeland is not in Jordan, then the Jewish homeland is certainly not in Poland.

If we are to apply that concept equally there is only one solution. BOTH the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinian people should have a national home in their homeland. Its not rocket science.

If the Arab Palestinian homeland is not in Jordan, then the Jewish homeland is certainly not in Poland.

You are nuts. Most Palestinians had never been to Jordan. Most, virtually all, of the original Israelis were actually from Poland, etc..

 

[Shusha]

I read someplace a long time ago that the common thread to so called terrorism was not religion but occupation/colonialism. The message sent was get the fuck out.

Terrorism is a name calling thing by the colonizers/occupiers.

1. You can't colonize your own homeland.

2. Really? So, the Manchester bombing that killed 22 and injured 119 in May of this year was a response to colonialism? And the attack in Nice which killed 86 and injured 202 was a defense against an occupation? And the Istanbul attack which killed 44 and injured 239 was "self-defense"? The Paris attack which killed 89 and injured 322 was because of what? French people occupying Arab land? Get bent. That is just plain wrong.

 

[Shusha]

You are nuts. Most Palestinians had never been to Jordan. Most, virtually all, of the original Israelis were actually from Poland, etc..

The original Israelis had never been to Poland either.