What is the real reason that our Government is making gun laws stricter and stricter?

[Slash]

Look at Wyoming. Not a single major city in Wyoming. Not going to have many homicides without major cities.

Why not? Same number of people. If there's 100,000 people in a city, with 10 murderers, shouldn't there be 10 murderers in 100,000 people from Wyoming, especially if Wyoming has 500% more guns per person than the other place? Or is it because Wyoming has a different socioeconomic situation than that city?

I mean Temecula City is about the same size as Casper Wyoming, but 4 times the murder rate.

Nebraska is about 300k people, 0.4 murders per 100k people. no real gun laws, in a state where 63% of the population has a gun.
St Louis about 300k people, 59 murders per 100k people. Multiple gun laws in a state where 12% of the population has a gun.

San Antonio bigger than the greater baltimore area, triple the gun ownership by state, but with 1/10th the murder rate.

We've done the asault weapon ban, and seen no drop in violence. But something is different between those cities, when one has 1/10th the murder of another but with fewer guns and gun restrictions.

You can't have these scenarios if decreasing gun ownership is the answer.

 

[Brain357]

Look at Wyoming. Not a single major city in Wyoming. Not going to have many homicides without major cities.

Why not? Same number of people. If there's 100,000 people in a city, with 10 murderers, shouldn't there be 10 murderers in 100,000 people from Wyoming, especially if Wyoming has 500% more guns per person than the other place? Or is it because Wyoming has a different socioeconomic situation than that city?

I mean Temecula City is about the same size as Casper Wyoming, but 4 times the murder rate.

Nebraska is about 300k people, 0.4 murders per 100k people. no real gun laws, in a state where 63% of the population has a gun.
St Louis about 300k people, 59 murders per 100k people. Multiple gun laws in a state where 12% of the population has a gun.

San Antonio bigger than the greater baltimore area, triple the gun ownership by state, but with 1/10th the murder rate.

We've done the asault weapon ban, and seen no drop in violence. But something is different between those cities, when one has 1/10th the murder of another but with fewer guns and gun restrictions.

You can't have these scenarios if decreasing gun ownership is the answer.

You don't have a lot of gangs with no major cities. I would think the why should be obvious. Not a lot of road rage when you don't see anyone on the roads. You'd have to look around for a while just to find somebody to kill.

 

[Brain357]

Here is what is happening with the most concealed carry ever:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Meanwhile New York city has maintained strict gun laws.
New York City Had Record-Low Crime Rate in 2016

 

[Slash]

You see we do this every time. "Obesity is an epidemic and we need to ban transfats and large soda's". And then 5 years later obesity is still growing.

Or "assault weapons need banned". And 10 years AFTER the law expired, murder rates with rifles is down 40% from where it was during the assault rifle ban.

Or "alcohol is a sin and we need to ban it" and prohibition gave way to heavier drinking as people drank harder alcohols quicker.

You can't just ban stuff and expect results. It NEVER works. But why not keep banging our head against that same rock and maybe this time it will.

I'd MUCH rather spend the time and money on finding the reasons that one city can have 1/10th the crime of another. What's that city doing that the other one isn't.

 

[Slash]

You don't have a lot of gangs with no major cities. I would think the why should be obvious. Not a lot of road rage when you don't see anyone on the roads. You'd have to look around for a while just to find somebody to kill.

There we go. Socioeconomic issues. Banning guns means gangs will all turn in their weapons? Of course not. Thats why we need to move away from the gun bans.

 

[Brain357]

You see we do this every time. "Obesity is an epidemic and we need to ban transfats and large soda's". And then 5 years later obesity is still growing.

Or "assault weapons need banned". And 10 years AFTER the law expired, murder rates with rifles is down 40% from where it was during the assault rifle ban.

Or "alcohol is a sin and we need to ban it" and prohibition gave way to heavier drinking as people drank harder alcohols quicker.

You can't just ban stuff and expect results. It NEVER works. But why not keep banging our head against that same rock and maybe this time it will.

I'd MUCH rather spend the time and money on finding the reasons that one city can have 1/10th the crime of another. What's that city doing that the other one isn't.

Homicides in S.A. hit a 21-year high. Why?

 

[Brain357]

You don't have a lot of gangs with no major cities. I would think the why should be obvious. Not a lot of road rage when you don't see anyone on the roads. You'd have to look around for a while just to find somebody to kill.

There we go. Socioeconomic issues. Banning guns means gangs will all turn in their weapons? Of course not. Thats why we need to move away from the gun bans.

Actually yes it does. There isn't an armed gang problem in countries with strong gun control. Here they are all armed because everyone else is. More legal guns guarantees more illegal guns.

Up to 600,000 guns are stolen every year in the US – that's one every minute

 

[Slash]

Meanwhile New York city has maintained strict gun laws.
New York City Had Record-Low Crime Rate in 2016

And at the same exact time Chicago and Baltimore with strict gun laws see their murder rates skyrocketing.

You can't have both of those. That takes away any chance of correlation if you have the same situation not working. If you drop a ball and it hits the ground 100 out of 100 times you have a strong correlation that gravity works. If it hangs in the air every once in a while that completely throws out that theory.

If strict gun laws are the answer, they have to answer every time. Otherwise you need to look at what other things are different between the two places, because gun law wasn't the answer for two different paths.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Here is what is happening with the most concealed carry ever:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Meanwhile New York city has maintained strict gun laws.
New York City Had Record-Low Crime Rate in 2016

So how can you attribute that to guns? Don't you remember a thing called the Ferguson Effect? That had more to do with it than the amount of guns.

 

[Brain357]

Here is what is happening with the most concealed carry ever:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Meanwhile New York city has maintained strict gun laws.
New York City Had Record-Low Crime Rate in 2016

So how can you attribute that to guns? Don't you remember a thing called the Ferguson Effect? That had more to do with it than the amount of guns.

View attachment 161362

The Ferguson effect is a direct result of too many guns. Too many innocent people are getting shot by police because they themselves are getting shot at a rate not seen in any other country. Due to all these shootings we have lots of unrest which is leading to more crime. The root cause goes back to guns.

 

[Brain357]

Meanwhile New York city has maintained strict gun laws.
New York City Had Record-Low Crime Rate in 2016

And at the same exact time Chicago and Baltimore with strict gun laws see their murder rates skyrocketing.

You can't have both of those. That takes away any chance of correlation if you have the same situation not working. If you drop a ball and it hits the ground 100 out of 100 times you have a strong correlation that gravity works. If it hangs in the air every once in a while that completely throws out that theory.

If strict gun laws are the answer, they have to answer every time. Otherwise you need to look at what other things are different between the two places, because gun law wasn't the answer for two different paths.

Chicago and Milwaukee crime has only gotten worse since they got concealed carry. Guns are certainly not the only factor in crime, but it is a huge problem for us.

 

[Brain357]

Countries with few guns don't have these kinds of problems. They are unique to the US.
Why the US has the most mass shootings - CNN
US cops killed 100 times more than German police in 2015
Analysis | American toddlers are still shooting people on a weekly basis this year
Study: Road rage incidents involving guns are increasing

The “boyfriend loophole” in U.S. gun laws is costing women’s lives

More police officers die on the job in states with more guns

Fallen officers: 64 shot dead in the line of duty in 2016 - CNN

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Guns kill nearly 1,300 US children each year - CNN

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Here is what is happening with the most concealed carry ever:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Meanwhile New York city has maintained strict gun laws.
New York City Had Record-Low Crime Rate in 2016

So how can you attribute that to guns? Don't you remember a thing called the Ferguson Effect? That had more to do with it than the amount of guns.

View attachment 161362

The Ferguson effect is a direct result of too many guns. Too many innocent people are getting shot by police because they themselves are getting shot at a rate not seen in any other country. Due to all these shootings we have lots of unrest which is leading to more crime. The root cause goes back to guns.

So what do you want to do, disarm the cops? The Ferguson Effect is because police officers shot unarmed black men. It had nothing to do with the amount of guns we have. It has to do with the media sensationalizing these tragic events.

 

[Slash]

Actually yes it does. There isn't an armed gang problem in countries with strong gun control. Here they are all armed because everyone else is. More legal guns guarantees more illegal guns.

Up to 600,000 guns are stolen every year in the US – that's one every minute

WHAT??? Come on... When you have to lie to make your point, you ruin any hope of making that point. Ok..

El Salvador has very strict gun laws. And Maybe you've heard of MS-13. MS-18...

You have to register with the government to own a firearm, go through a background check, mental and health records reviewed, pass a firearms safety class and re-take that every 3 years. Any transfer of a firearm must be recorded with the government. Their punishments on breaking those laws are tough too. And they are the murder capital of the world.

El Salvador is 90th in guns per capita, below the UK. About 1/4 of that of Australia and their new gun laws. 1/20th of the US (but a 400% higher murder rate).

Lesotho is 120th in the world in gun ownership rate, 6th in murder rate.


So please please please. Check your facts before you say them.

And again, you just can't have these situations exist if it's proliferation of firearms. It's can't be the cause if sometime it doesn't work.

 

[Brain357]

Here is what is happening with the most concealed carry ever:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Meanwhile New York city has maintained strict gun laws.
New York City Had Record-Low Crime Rate in 2016

So how can you attribute that to guns? Don't you remember a thing called the Ferguson Effect? That had more to do with it than the amount of guns.

View attachment 161362

The Ferguson effect is a direct result of too many guns. Too many innocent people are getting shot by police because they themselves are getting shot at a rate not seen in any other country. Due to all these shootings we have lots of unrest which is leading to more crime. The root cause goes back to guns.

So what do you want to do, disarm the cops? The Ferguson Effect is because police officers shot unarmed black men. It had nothing to do with the amount of guns we have. It has to do with the media sensationalizing these tragic events.

It has everything to do with the amount of guns we have. Our police shoot way more people than they should. They do that because they themselves are shot a lot. Neither of those things happen in countries with strong gun control.
US cops killed 100 times more than German police in 2015
Fallen officers: 64 shot dead in the line of duty in 2016 - CNN

Because of this we have lots of unrest which is increasing crime.

 

[Brain357]

Actually yes it does. There isn't an armed gang problem in countries with strong gun control. Here they are all armed because everyone else is. More legal guns guarantees more illegal guns.

Up to 600,000 guns are stolen every year in the US – that's one every minute

WHAT??? Come on... When you have to lie to make your point, you ruin any hope of making that point. Ok..

El Salvador has very strict gun laws. And Maybe you've heard of MS-13. MS-18...

You have to register with the government to own a firearm, go through a background check, mental and health records reviewed, pass a firearms safety class and re-take that every 3 years. Any transfer of a firearm must be recorded with the government. Their punishments on breaking those laws are tough too. And they are the murder capital of the world.

El Salvador is 90th in guns per capita, below the UK. About 1/4 of that of Australia and their new gun laws. 1/20th of the US (but a 400% higher murder rate).

Lesotho is 120th in the world in gun ownership rate, 6th in murder rate.


So please please please. Check your facts before you say them.

And again, you just can't have these situations exist if it's proliferation of firearms. It's can't be the cause if sometime it doesn't work.

So you have to bring in a 3rd world country? Are they economically and politically stable?

 

[Slash]

Countries with few guns don't have these kinds of problems. They are unique to the US.

Ok hold off hon.. Before you check that.

El Salvador, Brazil, Columbia, Lesotho, Phillipines, Bahamas,

Serbia is 2nd in gun ownership per capita. 171st in murder rate.
Cyprus, 4th gun ownership, 174th murder rate
Finland 6th gun ownership, 159th murder rate
Norway 9th gun ownership, 206th murder rate

You can't have these if it's proliferation of guns. You can't have countries with low guns having high murder rates and vice versa.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Well, now, let's see. Has my state (Arizona) passed stricter guns laws? You now can open carry without a license. You now can concealed carry without a license, or even a class on proficiency (you don't even need to show that you know where the safety switch is). You can buy any firearm from any private person without a background check. There are no limitations on magazine capacity, or bump stocks.

But wait! It is still illegal to own a fully automated weapon without a federal license, or to buy a firearm while under a restraining order (although it would not be illegal to sell a firearm to someone under a restraining order).

The OP must be talking about some other government.

No I'm talking about this one. I don't know about Arizona laws put here in PA gun laws are pretty strict. And if you didn't know gun laws differ from state to state.

BTW, Almost half of American citizens are pushing for stricter gun laws.

You should jump the border to Ohio. We have fantastic gun laws here. You can carry in bars and stadiums provided the establishment doesn't prohibit it. You can drive with a loaded gun on your passenger seat not even holstered. You can find CCW classes that only takes one day to complete. Our Castle Doctrine extends to your car so if somebody tries to break into your vehicle, it's considered the same as somebody trying to break into your home. They are even working on a Stand Your Ground bill.

WOW! Driving around with a loaded gun on your seat, not even holstered! Now, what could POSSIBLY go wrong with that?!

 

[Slash]

So you have to bring in a 3rd world country? Are they economically and politically stable?

THANK YOU! It's not proliferation. Maybe that is it, lets see...

We have 3rd world countries with high and low murder rates. 1st world with high and low murder rates. ANd gun ownership all over the place. Caymans have 138th in gun ownership, 20th in murder rate, and GDP per capita well over the US. Canada, top 10 in gun ownership, 160th in murder rate.


It's some other socioeconomic issues that make the difference.

 

[Brain357]

So you have to bring in a 3rd world country? Are they economically and politically stable?

THANK YOU! It's not proliferation. Maybe that is it, lets see...

We have 3rd world countries with high and low murder rates. 1st world with high and low murder rates. ANd gun ownership all over the place. Caymans have 138th in gun ownership, 20th in murder rate, and GDP per capita well over the US. Canada, top 10 in gun ownership, 160th in murder rate.


It's some other socioeconomic issues that make the difference.

Yeah it's coincidence that we have the most guns and the most mass shootings, most cops killed, most people shot by cops, most people shot by toddlers....

We have many problems that are unique to the US because of our guns.