What is the purpose of the Senate?

[jon_berzerk]

The Founding Fathers created two chambers of Congress, one that had the direct vote from the people in the House, and the other chamber to be appointed by the state legislatures in the Senate. The Founders decided to have the Senators elected in order to help thwart the potential destructive forces of a democracy and to help preserve the sovereignty of the states.

However, the all knowing and enlightened progressives at the turn of the 20th century knew better, and decided to have Senators directly elected instead via the 17th amendment. However, since we already have direct representation by the House with our votes, why have the Senate?

Won't you help us help ourselves? Either give states their right to appoint Senators again or get rid of the Senate.

View attachment 28459

People like John McClown have been in there since birth. Does anyone think we need clowns like McCain in Congress? In fact, terms for Senators are longer than those in the House. It would seem to me that democracy lovers would want more frequent elections rather than Mubarak like terms in office.

the purpose was lost

when the Constitution was amended

 

[USNavyVet]

Um, no. It's the Democrats. A quick google gave me Hillary and Obama.

After Bush v. Gore, Obama, Clinton wanted Electoral College scrapped | TheHill

President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton are among the politicians whose past criticisms of the Electoral College system would draw new scrutiny if there is a split verdict in this year’s presidential election.

National and swing state polls suggest it’s possible Republican Mitt Romney could win this year’s popular vote while Obama triumphs in the Electoral College — potentially marking the second time the rare split in outcomes has occurred in the last 12 years.

Republicans do not want to go to a popular vote......they would still lose

They want to change the way Electoral votes are allocated, in blue states with Republican legislatures. They want to proportion the votes in those blue states but keep it all or nothing in red states

Exactly.

So at first you said it was the Republicans, then when I prove you wrong you say the Republicans would lose if we did get rid of the electoral college?

 

[Darkwind]

None whatsoever. The House should assume the Senate's roles and it should be disbanded.

Dumbest quote of the day.

The founding fathers got a lot of things right. This isn't one of them.

If you were starting a government today, it is unlikely that it would ever occur to you (much less be a good idea) to have the people elect two bodies to do essentially the same job.

It would take a re-jiggering of the House and perhaps an expansion of it's membership (which is long overdue anyway) but there is nothing the Senate can do that the House cannot if the rules were re-written.

The people already have a representative for their district who doesn't give two shits about them. Having 2 Senators who are even more detatched makes no sense.

Smart people would set it up in exactly the same way, without tampering with the institutional parts of the government. If they made a mistake, they did so in allowing the body of the Senate to have any control over the parliamentary rules of that body.

Government and change should happen slowly, and with real heavy inertia.


Otherwise we end up with complete corruption of government (Like we have today) and laws that are so fucked up we all get screwed in the worst possible way (Obamacare).

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

The Founding Fathers created two chambers of Congress, one that had the direct vote from the people in the House, and the other chamber to be appointed by the state legislatures in the Senate. The Founders decided to have the Senators elected in order to help thwart the potential destructive forces of a democracy and to help preserve the sovereignty of the states.

However, the all knowing and enlightened progressives at the turn of the 20th century knew better, and decided to have Senators directly elected instead via the 17th amendment. However, since we already have direct representation by the House with our votes, why have the Senate?

Won't you help us help ourselves? Either give states their right to appoint Senators again or get rid of the Senate.

View attachment 28459

People like John McClown have been in there since birth. Does anyone think we need clowns like McCain in Congress? In fact, terms for Senators are longer than those in the House. It would seem to me that democracy lovers would want more frequent elections rather than Mubarak like terms in office.

The Founding Fathers also created an amendment process to change the Constitution, because they knew that not everything they did would be viewed favorably by the American people in the future.

"""I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind.

As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. """

Thomas Jefferson, 1816

 

[eagle1462010]

Why the Senate was created is crystal clear in the Founding Fathers Statements.............

To be the voice and representative of the State Legislatures....................

To be the cooler's as a matter of fact..................

Longer terms because foreign trade deals could possibly take years................

Obliterated by Wilson with the 17th....................

Had they intended to run the country as a pure democracy, they would have never even created a Senate...............

Now, we have career Senator's who only listen to their fund raisers................Which was never the intent of the Senate to begin with.

 

[rightwinger]

Why the Senate was created is crystal clear in the Founding Fathers Statements.............

To be the voice and representative of the State Legislatures....................

To be the cooler's as a matter of fact..................

Longer terms because foreign trade deals could possibly take years................

Obliterated by Wilson with the 17th....................

Had they intended to run the country as a pure democracy, they would have never even created a Senate...............

Now, we have career Senator's who only listen to their fund raisers................Which was never the intent of the Senate to begin with.

Senators are accountable to the people of the State in which they were elected

I don't want them accountable to whatever back room deal got them appointed Senator

 

[candycorn]

Dumbest quote of the day.

The founding fathers got a lot of things right. This isn't one of them.

If you were starting a government today, it is unlikely that it would ever occur to you (much less be a good idea) to have the people elect two bodies to do essentially the same job.

It would take a re-jiggering of the House and perhaps an expansion of it's membership (which is long overdue anyway) but there is nothing the Senate can do that the House cannot if the rules were re-written.

The people already have a representative for their district who doesn't give two shits about them. Having 2 Senators who are even more detatched makes no sense.

Smart people would set it up in exactly the same way, without tampering with the institutional parts of the government. If they made a mistake, they did so in allowing the body of the Senate to have any control over the parliamentary rules of that body.

Government and change should happen slowly, and with real heavy inertia.


Otherwise we end up with complete corruption of government (Like we have today) and laws that are so fucked up we all get screwed in the worst possible way (Obamacare).

Nonsense...it would be like hiring 3 teachers to teach your child 7th grade English. It's overkill that has only one thing going for it; it's old

 

[Votto]

Why the Senate was created is crystal clear in the Founding Fathers Statements.............

To be the voice and representative of the State Legislatures....................

To be the cooler's as a matter of fact..................

Longer terms because foreign trade deals could possibly take years................

Obliterated by Wilson with the 17th....................

Had they intended to run the country as a pure democracy, they would have never even created a Senate...............

Now, we have career Senator's who only listen to their fund raisers................Which was never the intent of the Senate to begin with.

Senators are accountable to the people of the State in which they were elected

I don't want them accountable to whatever back room deal got them appointed Senator

Accountable to the people? Last I checked Congress had an 5% approval rating, and they have a turnover ratio less than in the government of the former USSR.

Before Harry Reid was re-elected to his seat, he had only a 9% approval rating in Nevada.

They say that insanity is doing the same things over again and expecting a different result.

 

[Antares]

If you are a Lib the Senate's purpose is to rubber stamp anything the Boi King wants.

 

[Antares]

Why the Senate was created is crystal clear in the Founding Fathers Statements.............

To be the voice and representative of the State Legislatures....................

To be the cooler's as a matter of fact..................

Longer terms because foreign trade deals could possibly take years................

Obliterated by Wilson with the 17th....................

Had they intended to run the country as a pure democracy, they would have never even created a Senate...............

Now, we have career Senator's who only listen to their fund raisers................Which was never the intent of the Senate to begin with.

Senators are accountable to the people of the State in which they were elected

I don't want them accountable to whatever back room deal got them appointed Senator

Appointed to the Senate?

 

[eagle1462010]

Why the Senate was created is crystal clear in the Founding Fathers Statements.............

To be the voice and representative of the State Legislatures....................

To be the cooler's as a matter of fact..................

Longer terms because foreign trade deals could possibly take years................

Obliterated by Wilson with the 17th....................

Had they intended to run the country as a pure democracy, they would have never even created a Senate...............

Now, we have career Senator's who only listen to their fund raisers................Which was never the intent of the Senate to begin with.

Senators are accountable to the people of the State in which they were elected

I don't want them accountable to whatever back room deal got them appointed Senator

Baloney, the State legislatures are elected at the local levels...........

It's a hell of a lot harder to buy off an entire Legislature, than one individual........

Now we have career Senators, and they are bought and paid for...........

The intent of the Senate was to be the voice of the State legislatures, that is clear in the Founders Intent.

Had they wanted a pure democracy, they never would have created the Senate at all.

 

[eagle1462010]

Why the Senate was created is crystal clear in the Founding Fathers Statements.............

To be the voice and representative of the State Legislatures....................

To be the cooler's as a matter of fact..................

Longer terms because foreign trade deals could possibly take years................

Obliterated by Wilson with the 17th....................

Had they intended to run the country as a pure democracy, they would have never even created a Senate...............

Now, we have career Senator's who only listen to their fund raisers................Which was never the intent of the Senate to begin with.

Senators are accountable to the people of the State in which they were elected

I don't want them accountable to whatever back room deal got them appointed Senator

Appointed to the Senate?

Before the 17th Amendment the State Legislatures picked the Senators and voted on who would represent the State as basically a diplomat for the State Legislature. The Senator was to represent the position of the State Legislatures....................

If he went against the Will of the State he could be Recalled and replaced, and a recall election would begin to replace the Senator in the State Legislature................

Which is exactly the intent of the Founding Fathers.

 

[Flopper]

I would love to see the Senate go back to being appointed by the states but that won't happen anytime soon. Just wait until the progressives get rid of the electoral college. Then the states will really be nothing more than vehicles of the federal government.

Anyway, the senate still has a purpose but it does not perform the way it was originally intended. However, getting rid of the Senate only allows us to fall under one party rule that much easier. We all saw how terrible that works out for us, under both Bush and Obama as well as every other time in history that has happened.

Senator elections by state legislators sounded good when it was written into the constitution, but as in other parts of the constitution there were problems. Election of senators by state legislators made the Senate less responsive to the people and open positions were bought and sold by special interest groups.

I find it strange that so many conservatives favor repealing the 17th amendment. Repealing the 17th Amendment today would only weaken the mechanisms that are essential to conservative policies and conservative philosophy. Specifically, restoring to state legislatures the power over the election of Senators would make the Senate less directly accountable to the people and insulate the federal courts even further from public accountability, would increase rather than decrease state spending of federally-raised revenues, and would increase the importance and influence of gerrymandering over public policy and electoral politics.
Defending The 17th | Redstate

 

[rightwinger]

Why the Senate was created is crystal clear in the Founding Fathers Statements.............

To be the voice and representative of the State Legislatures....................

To be the cooler's as a matter of fact..................

Longer terms because foreign trade deals could possibly take years................

Obliterated by Wilson with the 17th....................

Had they intended to run the country as a pure democracy, they would have never even created a Senate...............

Now, we have career Senator's who only listen to their fund raisers................Which was never the intent of the Senate to begin with.

Senators are accountable to the people of the State in which they were elected

I don't want them accountable to whatever back room deal got them appointed Senator

Baloney, the State legislatures are elected at the local levels...........

It's a hell of a lot harder to buy off an entire Legislature, than one individual........

Now we have career Senators, and they are bought and paid for...........

The intent of the Senate was to be the voice of the State legislatures, that is clear in the Founders Intent.

Had they wanted a pure democracy, they never would have created the Senate at all.

Are you shitting me? Do you know what the going rate for buying off a local politician? A six pack and a carton of smokes

What does it take to buy off all the voters in a state?

The Senate was created to appease the States Rights crowd. It allows 600,000 Wyoming residents to have the same power as 38 million Californians

 

[rightwinger]

I would love to see the Senate go back to being appointed by the states but that won't happen anytime soon. Just wait until the progressives get rid of the electoral college. Then the states will really be nothing more than vehicles of the federal government.

Anyway, the senate still has a purpose but it does not perform the way it was originally intended. However, getting rid of the Senate only allows us to fall under one party rule that much easier. We all saw how terrible that works out for us, under both Bush and Obama as well as every other time in history that has happened.

Senator elections by state legislators sounded good when it was written into the constitution, but as in other parts of the constitution there were problems. Election of senators by state legislators made the Senate less responsive to the people and open positions were bought and sold by special interest groups.

I find it strange that so many conservatives favor repealing the 17th amendment. Repealing the 17th Amendment today would only weaken the mechanisms that are essential to conservative policies and conservative philosophy. Specifically, restoring to state legislatures the power over the election of Senators would make the Senate less directly accountable to the people and insulate the federal courts even further from public accountability, would increase rather than decrease state spending of federally-raised revenues, and would increase the importance and influence of gerrymandering over public policy and electoral politics.
Defending The 17th | Redstate

Conservatives favor repealing the 17th amendment because they have an advantage in the State Legislatures. They can get their Senators appointed where they can't get them elected

 

[editec]

Why give STATE LEGISLATURES the right to choose Senators?

I think that's a terrible idea.

 

[candycorn]

I would love to see the Senate go back to being appointed by the states but that won't happen anytime soon. Just wait until the progressives get rid of the electoral college. Then the states will really be nothing more than vehicles of the federal government.

Anyway, the senate still has a purpose but it does not perform the way it was originally intended. However, getting rid of the Senate only allows us to fall under one party rule that much easier. We all saw how terrible that works out for us, under both Bush and Obama as well as every other time in history that has happened.

Senator elections by state legislators sounded good when it was written into the constitution, but as in other parts of the constitution there were problems. Election of senators by state legislators made the Senate less responsive to the people and open positions were bought and sold by special interest groups.

I find it strange that so many conservatives favor repealing the 17th amendment. Repealing the 17th Amendment today would only weaken the mechanisms that are essential to conservative policies and conservative philosophy. Specifically, restoring to state legislatures the power over the election of Senators would make the Senate less directly accountable to the people and insulate the federal courts even further from public accountability, would increase rather than decrease state spending of federally-raised revenues, and would increase the importance and influence of gerrymandering over public policy and electoral politics.
Defending The 17th | Redstate

Conservatives favor repealing the 17th amendment because they have an advantage in the State Legislatures. They can get their Senators appointed where they can't get them elected

As usual, your analysis is 100% correct.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The purpose of the Senate is to give states with smaller populations disproportionate power in the federal government,

on the misguided notion that such is more 'fair'.

Originally, too, it was just a concession to the smaller states to get their support for the Constitution in the first place.

 

[JWBooth]

To give the rich and powerful a voice in government.



Once upon a time it was where the state governments had their voice at the national level.

 

[Antares]

Senators are accountable to the people of the State in which they were elected

I don't want them accountable to whatever back room deal got them appointed Senator

Appointed to the Senate?

Before the 17th Amendment the State Legislatures picked the Senators and voted on who would represent the State as basically a diplomat for the State Legislature. The Senator was to represent the position of the State Legislatures....................

If he went against the Will of the State he could be Recalled and replaced, and a recall election would begin to replace the Senator in the State Legislature................

Which is exactly the intent of the Founding Fathers.

My question was how does that apply now?