What is Secularism?

[rtwngAvngr]

I wouldn't call a story about Heather and her 2 mommies sex education.

Exactly.

 

[nakedemperor]

public education should present both sides of every argument equally or they should present no sides of the issue.

I agree. If and only if the "argument" as such comes up in a particular subject. In religion courses, students learn ABOUT specific religions and their specific dogma. If that breeds a discussion about how creationism is necessarily incompatible with what they've been learning in science class. As such, the arguments presented are: a) this is what the Christian Bible says and b) this is what tons and tons of empirical, factual evidence says. However, in a science class, where principles of falsifiability are concerned, creationism has no place, as it is purely faith-based, has no empirical supporting evidence, and is completely unfalsifiable-- that is, you can't prove it false. Evolution is a credible theory because it withstands attempts to prove it false. You can't prove false the proposition "X is true because I have faith in it", nor should this proposition have any place in a science classroom.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I agree. If and only if the "argument" as such comes up in a particular subject. In religion courses, students learn ABOUT specific religions and their specific dogma. If that breeds a discussion about how creationism is necessarily incompatible with what they've been learning in science class. As such, the arguments presented are: a) this is what the Christian Bible says and b) this is what tons and tons of empirical, factual evidence says. However, in a science class, where principles of falsifiability are concerned, creationism has no place, as it is purely faith-based, has no empirical supporting evidence, and is completely unfalsifiable-- that is, you can't prove it false. Evolution is a credible theory because it withstands attempts to prove it false. You can't prove false the proposition "X is true because I have faith in it", nor should this proposition have any place in a science classroom.

How about just teaching the facts. The fact is: many people believe in creationism. It is also undisproveable. God could have created the world and then created a fossil record which made it APPEAR that evolution was the case.

Can't you prove that didn't happen?

 

[nakedemperor]

How about just teaching the facts. The fact is: many people believe in creationism. It is also undisproveable. God could have created the world and then created a fossil record which made it APPEAR that evolution was the case.

Can't you prove that didn't happen?

Of course not. But can YOU prove that aliens didn't put us on earth and they themselves created the fossil record which made it appear that evolution was the case? Of course not. Its equally as likely as "God done it" because there is no evidence to support either theory. The quality of being "undisprovable" doesn't make something probable, or even logical for that matter.

The fact is: evolution is supported by history, biology, paleantology, etc. It is a theory which has been supported by hundreds of years of scientific findings, not to mention fossil records.

The fact is: creationism is faith-based, with no evidence to support it other than faith itself. To assume that God created fossils to make us think evolution existed is a leap of logic that has an equally scant amount of evidence to support it.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Of course not. But can YOU prove that aliens didn't put us on earth and they themselves created the fossil record which made it appear that evolution was the case? Of course not. Its equally as likely as "God done it" because there is no evidence to support either theory. The quality of being "undisprovable" doesn't make something probable, or even logical for that matter.

The fact is: evolution is supported by history, biology, paleantology, etc. It is a theory which has been supported by hundreds of years of scientific findings, not to mention fossil records.

The fact is: creationism is faith-based, with no evidence to support it other than faith itself. To assume that God created fossils to make us think evolution existed is a leap of logic that has an equally scant amount of evidence to support it.

Let's also teach that some people believe aliens put us here.

What makes no sense is your phobic reaction to faith.

Let all points of view be heard. Why must libs silence the opposition? Is that the only way you can win? I think that's the only way you feel good about yourselves, in a groupthink environment where noone exposes your hatred.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I wouldn't call a story about Heather and her 2 mommies sex education. It might inspire questions that would require some though. The telling of said story might indeed be a part of some grand conspiracy to desensitize your kids to homosexuality. The only thing I can tell you for sure, is that I'm not a party in it.

The message I'm getting from you is that you want teachers to impart your morals to your kids. If you are going to rely on the public school system to teach your kids morality, then don't be shocked and upset when teachers impart their morals on your kids.

I wasn't talking about the story per se. I was talking about teachers teaching children in public schools that it is OK to have two mommies or two daddies. They are teaching the children in the grade schools that homosexuality is to be accepted as normal - I guess these are "Secular beliefs". However, these beliefs are contrary to the beliefs of the majority of parents as well as the teachings of all the major religions.

People think that "secularism" is not a religion or a belief system - and thus are fooled. Also don't be fooled into thinking that it is the teachers who are imparting "their" morals necessarily. They are being given the materials by those who run the school system and are expected to teach it. I don't think anybody should rely on the schools to teach their kids morality, nor do I think the schools should be teaching it either unless the parents specifically approve such a program.

The message I'm trying to give you is that "Secular morals" are being taught. Since the majority of parents are Christian, and they don’t want their children exposed to these ideas, why are the schools teaching these things? They don't allow Christian morals to be taught. What gives the schools the right to teach secular morals, beliefs, or practices? Secularism is just another belief system or form of religion.

 

[MissileMan]

I wasn't talking about the story per se. I was talking about teachers teaching children in public schools that it is OK to have two mommies or two daddies. They are teaching the children in the grade schools that homosexuality is to be accepted as normal - I guess these are "Secular beliefs". However, these beliefs are contrary to the beliefs of the majority of parents as well as the teachings of all the major religions.

In the eyes of the government, a child having two mommies or two daddies IS ok. I hope you don't want your kids to be taught that if one of their classmates happen to fall into the two mommy or daddy category that they are to be shunned or ridiculed, or perhaps even dragged outside and beaten up.

People think that "secularism" is not a religion or a belief system - and thus are fooled. Also don't be fooled into thinking that it is the teachers who are imparting "their" morals necessarily. They are being given the materials by those who run the school system and are expected to teach it.

To my knowledge, teachers are given the text books, but make up their own lesson plans. Teachers with agendas could very well impart their morals on young minds. My point was that morals should be instilled at home, and school should be for learning "secular" things.

The message I'm trying to give you is that "Secular morals" are being taught.

Teaching kids about the real world isn't necessarily trying to impart secular morals. If you don't want your kids to be exposed to the real world, I'm afraid you'll have to keep them home and keep them isolated. But if you decide on that strategy, you'll wind up with adults ill-equipped to make their way in the world.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

In the eyes of the government, a child having two mommies or two daddies IS ok. I hope you don't want your kids to be taught that if one of their classmates happen to fall into the two mommy or daddy category that they are to be shunned or ridiculed, or perhaps even dragged outside and beaten up.

What country do you live in? In the USA the people ARE the government. The people are the "eyes of the government," not some secularist bureaucrats who have highjacked our school system. The anti-gay marriage attitude should be reflected in our schools because this is what the MAJORITY wants and has consistently voted for. And no child should be ridiculed or beaten up because of what his parents do - it's not his fault - kids should not be beating up on each other anyway.

To my knowledge, teachers are given the text books, but make up their own lesson plans. Teachers with agendas could very well impart their morals on young minds. My point was that morals should be instilled at home, and school should be for learning "secular" things.

MissleMan, just what do you think is in the textbooks? The teachers make their lesson plans based upon what is IN the textbooks and the teaching materials. They are full of material about teaching acceptance of homosexuality and so forth. I agree, morals should be instilled at home. So WHY are the schools instilling these secular morals? You still haven't answered this question.

Teaching kids about the real world isn't necessarily trying to impart secular morals. If you don't want your kids to be exposed to the real world, I'm afraid you'll have to keep them home and keep them isolated. But if you decide on that strategy, you'll wind up with adults ill-equipped to make their way in the world.

Wake up! Teaching kids to accept homosexuality IS imparting secular morals.

Exposing kids to the "real" world is a matter of preference. If you want your kids to be exposed at an early age to all the smutty deviant sexual knowledge they can absorb at an early age, that is your business. However, most parents prefer their children are NOT exposed to it and grow up in a relatively clean environment so they can be innocent children and not have to deal with the perverts of the world starting at age 7. You also still have not answered my question as to why the secularists are against school vouchers so these parents can have a CHOICE of where to send their children to school??

 

[MissileMan]

What country do you live in? In the USA the people ARE the government. The people are the "eyes of the government," not some secularist bureaucrats who have highjacked our school system. The anti-gay marriage attitude should be reflected in our schools because this is what the MAJORITY wants and has consistently voted for. And no child should be ridiculed or beaten up because of what his parents do - it's not his fault - kids should not be beating up on each other anyway.

Yessiree Bob! The people are the government. Fortunately, the people are bound to govern within the confines of the constitution and the laws of their state. You can have anti-gay attitudes preached in schools when the laws are changed. Whether you agree with it or not, the fact remains that there are kids being raised by two homosexual parents out there. There are also millions of kids out there who have a homosexual relative or friend of the family. Until your MAJORITY votes to make homosexuality illegal, then such things make up the REAL world. Exposing your kids to the REAL world should not be confused with imparting secular morals. And btw, 11 states does not constitute a MAJORITY.

MissleMan, just what do you think is in the textbooks? The teachers make their lesson plans based upon what is IN the textbooks and the teaching materials. They are full of material about teaching acceptance of homosexuality and so forth. I agree, morals should be instilled at home. So WHY are the schools instilling these secular morals? You still haven't answered this question.

As I stated above, you are confusing imparting knowledge with imparting morals. You seem to be afraid to have your kids even know that homosexuals exist. What you really want the schools to teach is that homosexuality is wrong. I maintain that that opinion is yours to pass onto your kids.

Wake up! Teaching kids to accept homosexuality IS imparting secular morals.

You have not provided any evidence that the kids are being taught anything more than an acceptance of homosexuals or those who are associated with them. What happened to all the talk about "we don't hate homosexuals, we only hate their conduct"?

Exposing kids to the "real" world is a matter of preference. If you want your kids to be exposed at an early age to all the smutty deviant sexual knowledge they can absorb at an early age, that is your business. However, most parents prefer their children are NOT exposed to it and grow up in a relatively clean environment so they can be innocent children and not have to deal with the perverts of the world starting at age 7. You also still have not answered my question as to why the secularists are against school vouchers so these parents can have a CHOICE of where to send their children to school??

Since this is the first time you have asked it, I'll answer it. I think vouchers are a wonderful idea, but then again, I'm not a secularist.

 

[no1tovote4]

Since this is the first time you have asked it, I'll answer it. I think vouchers are a wonderful idea, but then again, I'm not a secularist.

Why would that make a difference? There are plenty of schools to send children to that are not religious in nature that could receive the vouchers as well.

 

[MissileMan]

Why would that make a difference? There are plenty of schools to send children to that are not religious in nature that could receive the vouchers as well.

According to ScreamingEagle, there is a conspiracy among the secularists to prevent school voucher programs from being implemented. Perhaps I should have included a ....

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Yessiree Bob! The people are the government. Fortunately, the people are bound to govern within the confines of the constitution and the laws of their state. You can have anti-gay attitudes preached in schools when the laws are changed. Whether you agree with it or not, the fact remains that there are kids being raised by two homosexual parents out there. There are also millions of kids out there who have a homosexual relative or friend of the family. Until your MAJORITY votes to make homosexuality illegal, then such things make up the REAL world. Exposing your kids to the REAL world should not be confused with imparting secular morals. And btw, 11 states does not constitute a MAJORITY.

As far as I know there is no law that declares the schools must teach homosexuality. There also doesn't need to be a law to get it out of the school system either. Parents need to become more aware and speak up at the school board meetings and declare that they don't want their children to be taught about the secular or homosexual agenda. If the schools won't comply, they should pull their kids out of the schools (altho for many they would need a voucher to pay for a different school and this is why the liberals are against vouchers because they want to spread their secular propaganda)

As I stated above, you are confusing imparting knowledge with imparting morals. You seem to be afraid to have your kids even know that homosexuals exist. What you really want the schools to teach is that homosexuality is wrong. I maintain that that opinion is yours to pass onto your kids.

No, I am not confused with that difference at all. I think you are. The schools are pushing acceptance of a homosexual lifestyle. I am not "afraid" of the children learning about homosexuality; I PREFER they are NOT taught about it. I am also saying that the schools do not need to teach ANYTHING about homosexuality or even sex in general, for that matter (although a simple basic course in health class would help some kids). There is way too much focus on "alternative sexual lifestyles" in the schools today and precious little focus on actual scholarship.

Sure, I can pass along my Christian opinion at home but why should you have the right to pass along YOUR Secular opinion in the classroom and keep MY opinion silenced? Don't you see the inequity?

You have not provided any evidence that the kids are being taught anything more than an acceptance of homosexuals or those who are associated with them. What happened to all the talk about "we don't hate homosexuals, we only hate their conduct"?

You have the wrong idea that teaching "an acceptance of homosexuals" is acceptable to most. It's not. Christians do NOT accept homosexuality as an "alternative lifestyle" or as an acceptable lifestyle. It is considered deviant behavior that is sinful and should not be "tolerated" in our society. Why should the minority be allowed to push their deviant agenda on the majority just because it is "secular"?

If you think children should be taught "understanding" for homosexually-oriented people, why not teach them to be "understanding" of pedophile-oriented people too? (getting sarcastic here) There are tons of different orientations that need to be "understood" and "protected". How about the orientation to bully? Or the orientation to steal? Since both of these orientations can be found in the animal world, they must be natural and right too, don't you think?

You ask about evidence. We're getting off topic but since you ask: There are many activist groups promoting homosexuality. Here's some of them:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17262

Another gay activist group called GLSEN is actively promoting the gay lifestyle in the schools. They actively provide materials to the liberal teachers and the gay teachers and administrators and then the materials are made available to the other teachers and it is amazing how fast such indoctrination is catching on. Actually it does not really surprise me because most teachers today are first indoctrinated in the liberal universities. You know, the "progressive" universities that nowadays are teaching about prostitution and pornography. The secular sexual brainwashing is just being passed downwards to the children.

"What I witnessed during these brief 72 hours left me with the conviction that GLSEN is a cultural hurricane that’s hitting our schools with the kind of force and devastation that may take years to fully assess. Let me try to paint the picture. GLSEN is a self-styled pro-gay education network targeting our kids in public schools. The danger is in how they seek to accomplish this mission. In effect, GLSEN’s objective is to cut out parents and adult leaders in the child’s life who don’t agree with the LGBT agenda. Every speaker at the national conference made this message very clear."

http://www.family.org/cforum/fosi/education/nac/a0029442.cfm

If you want to know more detail, read this [warning: graphic material] about what's been going on in the state of Mass. It's definitely beyond belief what the secular homosexual agenda is targeting our children with.
http://www.rense.com/general/queer.htm

 

[MissileMan]

As far as I know there is no law that declares the schools must teach homosexuality. There also doesn't need to be a law to get it out of the school system either. Parents need to become more aware and speak up at the school board meetings and declare that they don't want their children to be taught about the secular or homosexual agenda. If the schools won't comply, they should pull their kids out of the schools (altho for many they would need a voucher to pay for a different school and this is why the liberals are against vouchers because they want to spread their secular propaganda)

No, I am not confused with that difference at all. I think you are. The schools are pushing acceptance of a homosexual lifestyle. I am not "afraid" of the children learning about homosexuality; I PREFER they are NOT taught about it. I am also saying that the schools do not need to teach ANYTHING about homosexuality or even sex in general, for that matter (although a simple basic course in health class would help some kids). There is way too much focus on "alternative sexual lifestyles" in the schools today and precious little focus on actual scholarship.

I still fail to see how the knowledge that there are children out there who are being raised by two men or two women is harmful to your kids. You make it sound like they're running gay porn movies in the classrooms. They are being exposed to the REALITY, that they might come into contact, perhaps even enter into a friendship with another child who has two gay parents. I can't believe that you can't realize the need for all children to be tolerant of all other children.

Sure, I can pass along my Christian opinion at home but why should you have the right to pass along YOUR Secular opinion in the classroom and keep MY opinion silenced? Don't you see the inequity?

You have the wrong idea that teaching "an acceptance of homosexuals" is acceptable to most. It's not. Christians do NOT accept homosexuality as an "alternative lifestyle" or as an acceptable lifestyle. It is considered deviant behavior that is sinful and should not be "tolerated" in our society. Why should the minority be allowed to push their deviant agenda on the majority just because it is "secular"?

I have not argued that teachers should be allowed to teach kids that homosexuality is ok. That would be teaching morality, which I have already stated quite clearly should be taught by parents, not schools. I have and will continue to argue though, that teachers need to enforce an acceptance of all the kids in the school, no matter what their parental situation.

I find it amusing that you use the words secular and secularism with the same revulsion you use the word homosexuality and liberal. I'll wager that a majority of secularists are Christian. Probably not a "good" Christian as defined by a far-right, bible-thumping, homo-hating zealot, but a Christian none-the-less. I have little doubt they believe in God, and Jesus, and Heaven. Further, I have little doubt that they feel that asking you to pursue your religion at home, or in a church of your choosing, in no way infringes on your freedom of religion. My point being that secular does not equal deviant as you imply above.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I still fail to see how the knowledge that there are children out there who are being raised by two men or two women is harmful to your kids. You make it sound like they're running gay porn movies in the classrooms. They are being exposed to the REALITY, that they might come into contact, perhaps even enter into a friendship with another child who has two gay parents. I can't believe that you can't realize the need for all children to be tolerant of all other children.

I have not argued that teachers should be allowed to teach kids that homosexuality is ok. That would be teaching morality, which I have already stated quite clearly should be taught by parents, not schools. I have and will continue to argue though, that teachers need to enforce an acceptance of all the kids in the school, no matter what their parental situation.

I find it amusing that you use the words secular and secularism with the same revulsion you use the word homosexuality and liberal. I'll wager that a majority of secularists are Christian. Probably not a "good" Christian as defined by a far-right, bible-thumping, homo-hating zealot, but a Christian none-the-less. I have little doubt they believe in God, and Jesus, and Heaven. Further, I have little doubt that they feel that asking you to pursue your religion at home, or in a church of your choosing, in no way infringes on your freedom of religion. My point being that secular does not equal deviant as you imply above.

I'm beginning to think you are in denial. I've given you plenty of proof that the secularist homosexual lobby is pushing their rotten agenda on our innocent kids. If you think it sounds like porn, you are absolutely right, it's disgusting and morally wrong. This is the kind of stuff that destroys a child's innocence. It twists the mind and denigrates wholesome sex and marriage. This trash is just as bad as the slime coming out of Hollywood, stuff which most parents do not want their children watching. The secularist movement has spawned this garbage under "free speech" and has engulfed our society with it, including the colleges which now spit out ignoramus teachers and is now using these brainwashed teachers to target the young children, even the pre-schoolers.

Wake up man! This secularist movement is in complete contrast to the total non-existent push of any Christian agenda in our schools. Yet the secularists are still out to stamp out any teensy tiny smidgeon of reference to God in our schools such as a small prayer before a football game or a Christmas party. Why is it the secularists cannot tolerate the children saying a prayer together but they will tolerate the children discussing deviant sex with one another? Both subjects are related to morality. Yet the Christian morality is not being represented. This is what I call a double standard. This is what I call inequity. This is secularism gone rampant. They are out to destroy Christian morals and any religion in any form and replace them with their own secular beliefs. Innocent children are easy targets and a great way for them to innoculate our society with their decadence.

Secularism comes in many forms. However, the basic ingredient seems to be a denial of God and His teachings. This means that secularist morality is based upon what certain humans think is right or wrong, not what God teaches. This is where the slippery slope begins. This is how deviants thrive. You're right, I do find it revolting. Secularism must be stopped just as you think Christianity must be stopped.

You keep saying that children should "tolerate" each other. This is the formulated liberal pap and what it really means is that Christians should accept what they consider to be immoral behavior. Believe it or not, there are some things in life that people just don't want to tolerate. That is their CHOICE. Or do you not believe in freedom of religion? (and no, I'm not saying the children should heckle or fight one another)

Then you say that teachers should not be allowed to teach morality. Yet you say it is OK for the teachers to be pushing this secular immorality in the schools. These two positions are diametrically opposed to one another. You need to clear up your thinking, stop being in denial as to what is actually happening, and make a decision as to where you stand.

 

[MissileMan]

I'm beginning to think you are in denial. I've given you plenty of proof that the secularist homosexual lobby is pushing their rotten agenda on our innocent kids.

So far, you've only accused teachers of making your kids aware of the existence of homosexuality with two mommy or two daddy stories. You've provided no evidence at all that kids are being taught to go explore or attempt homosexuality.

If you think it sounds like porn, you are absolutely right, it's disgusting and morally wrong. This is the kind of stuff that destroys a child's innocence. It twists the mind and denigrates wholesome sex and marriage. This trash is just as bad as the slime coming out of Hollywood, stuff which most parents do not want their children watching. The secularist movement has spawned this garbage under "free speech" and has engulfed our society with it, including the colleges which now spit out ignoramus teachers and is now using these brainwashed teachers to target the young children, even the pre-schoolers.

You need to get over yourself...the only person comparing two mommy or two daddy stories to porn is you, and it is becoming obvious now that you are too emotionally overcome by your fear, hatred, and revulsion of homosexuals to carry on a rational,intelligent argument.

Wake up man! This secularist movement is in complete contrast to the total non-existent push of any Christian agenda in our schools. Yet the secularists are still out to stamp out any teensy tiny smidgeon of reference to God in our schools such as a small prayer before a football game or a Christmas party. Why is it the secularists cannot tolerate the children saying a prayer together but they will tolerate the children discussing deviant sex with one another? Both subjects are related to morality. Yet the Christian morality is not being represented. This is what I call a double standard. This is what I call inequity. This is secularism gone rampant. They are out to destroy Christian morals and any religion in any form and replace them with their own secular beliefs. Innocent children are easy targets and a great way for them to innoculate our society with their decadence.

Secularism comes in many forms. However, the basic ingredient seems to be a denial of God and His teachings. This means that secularist morality is based upon what certain humans think is right or wrong, not what God teaches. This is where the slippery slope begins. This is how deviants thrive. You're right, I do find it revolting. Secularism must be stopped just as you think Christianity must be stopped.

I think you need to drag out your dictionary and read the definition of secularism. And I defy you to come up with one quote from me where I've advocated the demolition of Christianity.

You keep saying that children should "tolerate" each other. This is the formulated liberal pap and what it really means is that Christians should accept what they consider to be immoral behavior. Believe it or not, there are some things in life that people just don't want to tolerate. That is their CHOICE. Or do you not believe in freedom of religion? (and no, I'm not saying the children should heckle or fight one another)

Then you say that teachers should not be allowed to teach morality. Yet you say it is OK for the teachers to be pushing this secular immorality in the schools. These two positions are diametrically opposed to one another. You need to clear up your thinking, stop being in denial as to what is actually happening, and make a decision as to where you stand.

I'm going to explain this one last time as you seem to be unable to grasp my arguments so far.

1. Morality should be taught at home, not at school.

2. Teaching the existence of a thing is not the same as teaching the right or wrong of it.

3. Two mommy stories are not porn.

4. Not all secularists are atheists. As a matter of fact, I would guess that the majority of secularists are non-atheist

5. Children should be tolerant of other children regardless of the sexual orientation of the parents. This is common sense and what it really means is I don't want to read about a squad of 12 year-old Christian soldiers making war on other kids because of who their parents or relatives are.

6. Teaching morality and teaching immorality are the same thing, and I am opposed to it occurring at school.

7. Banning the word homosexuality in school will not make it go away.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

So far, you've only accused teachers of making your kids aware of the existence of homosexuality with two mommy or two daddy stories. You've provided no evidence at all that kids are being taught to go explore or attempt homosexuality.


You need to get over yourself...the only person comparing two mommy or two daddy stories to porn is you, and it is becoming obvious now that you are too emotionally overcome by your fear, hatred, and revulsion of homosexuals to carry on a rational,intelligent argument.


I think you need to drag out your dictionary and read the definition of secularism. And I defy you to come up with one quote from me where I've advocated the demolition of Christianity.


I'm going to explain this one last time as you seem to be unable to grasp my arguments so far.

1. Morality should be taught at home, not at school.

2. Teaching the existence of a thing is not the same as teaching the right or wrong of it.

3. Two mommy stories are not porn.

4. Not all secularists are atheists. As a matter of fact, I would guess that the majority of secularists are non-atheist

5. Children should be tolerant of other children regardless of the sexual orientation of the parents. This is common sense and what it really means is I don't want to read about a squad of 12 year-old Christian soldiers making war on other kids because of who their parents or relatives are.

6. Teaching morality and teaching immorality are the same thing, and I am opposed to it occurring at school.

7. Banning the word homosexuality in school will not make it go away.

You've lost your ability to reason. I've already countered your points with tons of proof and you have no justifiable rebuttals. You just mindlessly repeat what you want to believe, going back to square one. I've got better things to do than

 

[MissileMan]

You've lost your ability to reason. I've already countered your points with tons of proof and you have no justifiable rebuttals. You just mindlessly repeat what you want to believe, going back to square one. I've got better things to do than

:rotflmao: You're only hurting the wall.

You've been ranting for 9 posts that there's this conspiracy in the public school system to turn your kids into homosexuals...the only one mindlessly repeating themselves is you. I've had to reiterate my position because you keep falsely representing my positions in your own posts. Your baseless allegations are not only the antithesis of tons of proof, but could only be believed by someone blindly faithful or blind drunk.

Can someone please help this guy find his argument? He's lost it and can't find it anywhere!