Zone1 What is hate speech?

[Hector12]

If someone makes a statement about a group of people that is true but unflattering, should that be regarded as hate speech? If so, what should the punishment be?

For the record, I have a high opinion of Jews and Orientals (AKA, East Asians). If someone makes an unflattering empirical statement about either group or both groups that is untrue, I only ask the opportunity to prove that it is not true. On some websites I am not allowed that opportunity.

For example, on an anti Jewish website I pointed out that one of the accusations Hitler made about German Jews was untrue. I quoted a footnote below his statement in my copy of Mein Kampf. I was banned.

 

[Donald H]

If someone makes a statement about a group of people that is true but unflattering, should that be regarded as hate speech? If so, what should the punishment be?

For the record, I have a high opinion of Jews and Orientals (AKA, East Asians). If someone makes an unflattering empirical statement about either group or both groups that is untrue, I only ask the opportunity to prove that it is not true. On some websites I am not allowed that opportunity.

For example, on an anti Jewish website I pointed out that one of the accusations Hitler made about German Jews was untrue. I quoted a footnote below his statement in my copy of Mein Kampf. I was banned.

What did you quote? You should be able to say it on this board unless it's very obviously hate speech.

To reassure you, I'm a Canadian and I'm very liberal on defining hate speech.

 

[lg325]

I am against censorship of any form. When the supreme court made specific issues legal my parents just told us, kids, it may be legal by government standards but we disapprove of it in this household.

 

[Hector12]

What did you quote? You should be able to say it on this board unless it's very obviously hate speech.

To reassure you, I'm a Canadian and I'm very liberal on defining hate speech.

I quoted a statement by Hitler claiming that German Jews shirked combat duty during World War I. The footnote I quoted said that German Jews participated in combat in numbers proportional to their numbers in the German population, and that the casualty figures for German Jews were also proportional.

I could have added that Anne Frank's father served in the German Army on the Western Front during World War I.

 

[Donald H]

I quoted a statement by Hitler claiming that German Jews shirked combat duty during World War I. The footnote I quoted said that German Jews participated in combat in numbers proportional to their numbers in the German population, and that the casualty figures for German Jews were also proportional.

I could have added that Anne Frank's father served in the German Army on the Western Front during World War I.

Yes, I would tend to be liberal on allowing those remarks.

Had you previously created a reputation of being a holocaust denier? If so then that could have pressured the forum's moderators to take action against you.

Truth and facts can't be prefaced by a reputation that clearly states that it's hate speech.

 

[Hector12]

Yes, I would tend to be liberal on allowing those remarks.

Had you previously created a reputation of being a holocaust denier? If so then that could have pressured the forum's moderators to take action against you.

Truth and facts can't be prefaced by a reputation that clearly states that it's hate speech.

Whenever I encounter a Holocaust denier I tell him that if the Holocaust did not happen it needs to be true that every survivor of a Nazi concentration camp and every soldier who liberated a Nazi concentration camp conspired to lie about what was happening in the camp.

 

[Donald H]

Whenever I encounter a Holocaust denier I tell him that if the Holocaust did not happen it needs to be true that every survivor of a Nazi concentration camp and every soldier who liberated a Nazi concentration camp conspired to lie about what was happening in the camp.

I don't think you can tell me anything about the holocaust that I don't already know, or would find interesting and informative.

You've started by proposing an adversarial POV.

 

[Lisa558]

I don't think you can tell me anything about the holocaust that I don't already know, or would find interesting and informative.

You've started by proposing an adversarial POV.

How is he proposing an adversarial POV? He clearly does not give credence to Holocaust denial.

 

[Hector12]

I don't think you can tell me anything about the holocaust that I don't already know, or would find interesting and informative.

You've started by proposing an adversarial POV.

I think hate speech laws interfere with the conversation on race we need to be having.

I do not think Jews and Orientals need to be protected by hate speech laws because most of them are wonderful people.

 

[Donald H]

How is he proposing an adversarial POV? He clearly does not give credence to Holocaust denial.

Adversarial in that I am able to consider any and all proposals, while he's moved on before the discussion even started.

You're disqualified because it's over your head Lisa.
Not suggesting that I won't allow you to try again, with a lot more forethought.

 

[Lisa558]

Adversarial in that I am able to consider any and all proposals, while he's moved on before the discussion even started.

You're disqualified because it's over your head Lisa.
Not suggesting that I won't allow you to try again, with a lot more forethought.

Ah…..an insult! Let me guess….you’re a leftist.

 

[Donald H]

I think hate speech laws interfere with the conversation on race we need to be having.

Are you not an American?

I do not think Jews and Orientals need to be protected by hate speech laws because most of them are wonderful people.

That's fine for you. I don't paint all races with the same brush. In fact I'm a Canadian and I don't paint races period. So we've already reached an issue on which we disagree.

I don't consider Zionists to be wonderful people. They need to stand responsible for their dogmatic position of apartheid against the Palestinian people.

FYI, the people of Israel can be separated into at least four categories.

Zionists
Israelis
Jewish
Non-Jewish

 

[Lisa558]

Are you not an American?

That's fine for you. I don't paint all races with the same brush. In fact I'm a Canadian and I don't paint races period. So we've already reached an issue on which we disagree.

I don't consider Zionists to be wonderful people. They need to stand responsible for their dogmatic position of apartheid against the Palestinian people.

FYI, the people of Israel can be separated into at least four categories.

Zionists
Israelis
Jewish
Non-Jewish

Zionists are simply people who believe in and support the state of Israel. Some may be overly aggressive, but then again, look at the monsters of BLM.

 

[Lisa558]

Are you not an American?

That's fine for you. I don't paint all races with the same brush. In fact I'm a Canadian and I don't paint races period. So we've already reached an issue on which we disagree.

I don't consider Zionists to be wonderful people. They need to stand responsible for their dogmatic position of apartheid against the Palestinian people.

FYI, the people of Israel can be separated into at least four categories.

Zionists
Israelis
Jewish
Non-Jewish

Also, Israeli isn’t a separate category. There are Jewish Israelis, Muslim Israelis, and Christian Israelis.

 

[Donald H]

Maybe a good way to start is to put a toe in to test the water.

I'm a Canadian but also an Englishman, on account of my ancestors coming from England.
Likewise Jewish people are also of more than one nationality,ethnicity. (During WW2)

Therefore, the number of dead attributed to the holocaust is an unknown number, and thus the confusion on what is to be accepted as fact. To pick a number out of the air, I'll suggest 60 million.

We should maybe start with pronouncing a number of Russians who died during WW2, but out of necessity we would be ignoring that millions were jewish too. Also keeping in mind that being Jewish is a religion only, in some appreciable number of cases. Whereas it denotes ethnicity in an appreciable number too.

Did Jews fight against the Nazis? Yes!

 

[Donald H]

Also, Israeli isn’t a separate category. There are Jewish Israelis, Muslim Israelis, and Christian Israelis.

You can parrot what I say all you like Lisa.
But you know what happens when you disagree.

 

[Hector12]

Are you not an American?

That's fine for you. I don't paint all races with the same brush. In fact I'm a Canadian and I don't paint races period. So we've already reached an issue on which we disagree.

I don't consider Zionists to be wonderful people. They need to stand responsible for their dogmatic position of apartheid against the Palestinian people.

FYI, the people of Israel can be separated into at least four categories.

Zionists
Israelis
Jewish
Non-Jewish

I am a Christian Zionist. The end of apartheid in South Africa has not worked well. There are long periods of time when there is no electricity. Rates of crime and AIDS are high.

I suspect that you would rather live in Israel than in any Arab country. Among the Palestinians rape victims who get pregnant are often publicly murdered. Sometimes they are raped and impregnated by their brothers.

 

[Donald H]

I am a Christian Zionist. The end of apartheid in South Africa has not worked well. There are long periods of time when there is no electricity. Rates of crime and AIDS are high.

So you support apartheid.

I suspect that you would rather live in Israel than in any Arab country. Among the Palestinians rape victims who get pregnant are often publicly murdered. Sometimes they are raped and impregnated by their brothers.

N.A.

 

[Hector12]

So you support apartheid.


N.A.

I was opposed to apartheid when it existed. I have since then become disappointed with the results of ending it. Nobel ideals should be measured against the result of realizing those ideals.

This is true for the civil rights movement in the United States as well. I supported it as a child, a teenager, and as a young adult. Again I have become disappointed with the results.

Would you like to live in South Africa? Would you rather live in an Arab country than in Israel? Those questions are relevant to this discussion.

 

[Blues Man]

Speech is speech

There is no such thing as "hate" speech