What is a saved job?

[jreeves]

The term doesn't have an economic meaning, but it does have a plain language meaning. If a job still exists due to stimulus which otherwise would have been eliminated, it's a "saved job". Admittedly, there is no way to really compute that, but conceptually it makes sense.

In reality it probably does. If you can't compute it, it's not real! As I've tried to explain to others, if those jobs were saved due to bail out cash, what happens when that runs out. They still loose their jobs in the end so the jobs are not really saved, the pain is being put on hold.

If you can't compute it with 100% accuracy, it's not real? That's your argument. I guess the sand on the beach isn't real either, since you calculate the exact number of grains.

Hmm...a project to figure the grains of sand for 12 year olds....


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/archimedes/media/lrk_sand.pdf


Now show everyone a link to an economic textbook that refers to "jobs saved"?

 

[Polk]

In reality it probably does. If you can't compute it, it's not real! As I've tried to explain to others, if those jobs were saved due to bail out cash, what happens when that runs out. They still loose their jobs in the end so the jobs are not really saved, the pain is being put on hold.

If you can't compute it with 100% accuracy, it's not real? That's your argument. I guess the sand on the beach isn't real either, since you calculate the exact number of grains.

Hmm...a project to figure the grains of sand for 12 year olds....


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/archimedes/media/lrk_sand.pdf


Now show everyone a link to an economic textbook that refers to "jobs saved"?

And you really think that number of the grains of sand would be accurate?

 

[immto]

In reality it probably does. If you can't compute it, it's not real! As I've tried to explain to others, if those jobs were saved due to bail out cash, what happens when that runs out. They still loose their jobs in the end so the jobs are not really saved, the pain is being put on hold.

If you can't compute it with 100% accuracy, it's not real? That's your argument. I guess the sand on the beach isn't real either, since you calculate the exact number of grains.

Just pretend it was Bush saying that he "saved" jobs using fuzzy math instead of Obama.

The term doesn't have an economic meaning, but it does have a plain language meaning. If a job still exists due to stimulus which otherwise would have been eliminated, it's a "saved job". Admittedly, there is no way to really compute that, but conceptually it makes sense.

In reality it probably does. If you can't compute it, it's not real! As I've tried to explain to others, if those jobs were saved due to bail out cash, what happens when that runs out. They still loose their jobs in the end so the jobs are not really saved, the pain is being put on hold.

If you can't compute it with 100% accuracy, it's not real? That's your argument. I guess the sand on the beach isn't real either, since you calculate the exact number of grains.

No one is actually questioning whether sand is real just as no one is questioning the fact that some jobs might be saved. The idea that there is no way to actually calculate a saved job added to the fact that Obama and his administration are the first to use this new trick make it all the more questionable.

Also like I just said, those jobs are really not saved if the money keeping them employed runs out. That's why being able to calculate it is so important, because the U.S. citizens deserve to know whether a job saved is a job that someone keeps for several more months or a career that lasts a lifetime or at least several more years.

 

[Polk]

If you can't compute it with 100% accuracy, it's not real? That's your argument. I guess the sand on the beach isn't real either, since you calculate the exact number of grains.

Just pretend it was Bush saying that he "saved" jobs using fuzzy math instead of Obama.

In reality it probably does. If you can't compute it, it's not real! As I've tried to explain to others, if those jobs were saved due to bail out cash, what happens when that runs out. They still loose their jobs in the end so the jobs are not really saved, the pain is being put on hold.

If you can't compute it with 100% accuracy, it's not real? That's your argument. I guess the sand on the beach isn't real either, since you calculate the exact number of grains.

No one is actually questioning whether sand is real just as no one is questioning the fact that some jobs might be saved. The idea that there is no way to actually calculate a saved job added to the fact that Obama and his administration are the first to use this new trick make it all the more questionable.

Also like I just said, those jobs are really not saved if the money keeping them employed runs out. That's why being able to calculate it is so important, because the U.S. citizens deserve to know whether a job saved is a job that someone keeps for several more months or a career that lasts a lifetime or at least several more years.

I freely admit that's a problem with the calculation.

 

[immto]

Just pretend it was Bush saying that he "saved" jobs using fuzzy math instead of Obama.

If you can't compute it with 100% accuracy, it's not real? That's your argument. I guess the sand on the beach isn't real either, since you calculate the exact number of grains.

No one is actually questioning whether sand is real just as no one is questioning the fact that some jobs might be saved. The idea that there is no way to actually calculate a saved job added to the fact that Obama and his administration are the first to use this new trick make it all the more questionable.

Also like I just said, those jobs are really not saved if the money keeping them employed runs out. That's why being able to calculate it is so important, because the U.S. citizens deserve to know whether a job saved is a job that someone keeps for several more months or a career that lasts a lifetime or at least several more years.

I freely admit that's a problem with the calculation.

baby steps, that's all I'm asking for.

 

[jreeves]

If you can't compute it with 100% accuracy, it's not real? That's your argument. I guess the sand on the beach isn't real either, since you calculate the exact number of grains.

Hmm...a project to figure the grains of sand for 12 year olds....


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/archimedes/media/lrk_sand.pdf


Now show everyone a link to an economic textbook that refers to "jobs saved"?

And you really think that number of the grains of sand would be accurate?

There is actually a math processes behind figuring the number of grains, what processes does the figuring of saved jobs use?

 

[Chris]

Blaming Obama for the high unemployment rate is like blaming your doctor because you slept with a prostitute(Phil Gramm) and got gonorrhea.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Blaming Obama for the high unemployment rate is like blaming your doctor because you slept with a prostitute(Phil Gramm) and got gonorrhea.

Believing any thing you post is accurate is like believing Obama's saved jobs figure is correct and irrefutable.

 

[immto]

Blaming Obama for the high unemployment rate is like blaming your doctor because you slept with a prostitute(Phil Gramm) and got gonorrhea.

Believing any thing you post is accurate is like believing Obama's saved jobs figure is correct and irrefutable.

He told us that if we did the stimlus, we might see 8.5%. now we might be closer to 2 points higher than that, All the while or GDP is growing.

 

[DiveCon]

If you can't compute it with 100% accuracy, it's not real? That's your argument. I guess the sand on the beach isn't real either, since you calculate the exact number of grains.

Just pretend it was Bush saying that he "saved" jobs using fuzzy math instead of Obama.

I'd say the same thing I say now: it's true to an extent, but impossible to accurately count.

BULLSHIT you would

 

[DiveCon]

If you can't compute it with 100% accuracy, it's not real? That's your argument. I guess the sand on the beach isn't real either, since you calculate the exact number of grains.

Hmm...a project to figure the grains of sand for 12 year olds....


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/archimedes/media/lrk_sand.pdf


Now show everyone a link to an economic textbook that refers to "jobs saved"?

And you really think that number of the grains of sand would be accurate?

within a margin of error it would

 

[DiveCon]

Blaming Obama for the high unemployment rate is like blaming your doctor because you slept with a prostitute(Phil Gramm) and got gonorrhea.

Believing any thing you post is accurate is like believing Obama's saved jobs figure is correct and irrefutable.

He told us that if we did the stimlus, we might see 8.5%. now we might be closer to 2 points higher than that, All the while or GDP is growing.

last reported unemployment rate was 10.2%

 

[jreeves]

Blaming Obama for the high unemployment rate is like blaming your doctor because you slept with a prostitute(Phil Gramm) and got gonorrhea.

Hmm....what was the unemployment rate under Bush...

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Believing any thing you post is accurate is like believing Obama's saved jobs figure is correct and irrefutable.

He told us that if we did the stimlus, we might see 8.5%. now we might be closer to 2 points higher than that, All the while or GDP is growing.

last reported unemployment rate was 10.2%

immto
GDP is growing???!!! Are you kidding me? Let me clue you in on something.....
WHEN THE DOLLARS FALLS IN VALUE LIKE A ROCK GDP MONETARY VALUE RISES BASED ON CURRENCY EXCHANGE RATES AROUND THE WORLD.

Let me ask you a question.....How can GDP rise when unemployment continues to rise? No one's making shit, no one's buying shit...how the hell does GDP rise???!!!

Look America...you all need to quit falling for this BARRYBULLSHIT!!!!!!! What the f*ck is wrong with you people!!!!!

 

[immto]

Blaming Obama for the high unemployment rate is like blaming your doctor because you slept with a prostitute(Phil Gramm) and got gonorrhea.

Hmm....what was the unemployment rate under Bush...

I believe it got as high as 7%

 

[immto]

He told us that if we did the stimlus, we might see 8.5%. now we might be closer to 2 points higher than that, All the while or GDP is growing.

last reported unemployment rate was 10.2%

immto
GDP is growing???!!! Are you kidding me? Let me clue you in on something.....
WHEN THE DOLLARS FALLS IN VALUE LIKE A ROCK GDP MONETARY VALUE RISES BASED ON CURRENCY EXCHANGE RATES AROUND THE WORLD.

Let me ask you a question.....How can GDP rise when unemployment continues to rise? No one's making shit, no one's buying shit...how the hell does GDP rise???!!!

Look America...you all need to quit falling for this BARRYBULLSHIT!!!!!!! What the f*ck is wrong with you people!!!!!

Look it was 12:30AM when I wrote that so I'm not sure I know I meant to say GDP. I think I might have meant the DJ was rising, which would have been an idication that this recovery, if you want to call it that (being a jobless recovery) is BS.

On a side note GDP has risen and overall continues to rise which is a whole other issue. 2009 3rd quarter was higher than 2nd quarter. 4th quarter might be higher yet (although it may drop) which alongside this level of unemployment is casuing havoc on our overall economy. The GDP quartly has been flat and in a slight dip since it's overall high in 2nd quarter 2008 but year to year it has been rising.

That said, you are right about us the U.S. not making shit, you're wrong however about us not buying shit. Us the U.S. buying shit is what's keeping our GDP and our economy rising. This is why we are in such a perdiciment. Our economy is based on our ability to keep buying shit. If we STOP buying shit we are in real trouble. If we don't have jobs, we will not be able to keep buying shit.

That is the symptom of our country NOT making shit and our businesses will continue to NOT make shit if there is no incentive to do so. U.S. companies will continue to move jobs outside of the U.S. as long as taxes and fee's stay high and or continue to rise.

what are your reffering to, BARRYBULLSHIT???!!! Not knowing what you mean I can't say what our problem is, but I think our problem is that we're tired of having our country torn apart and our Liberty erased but this new socialist mentality that seems to be taking over.

 

[Polk]

Hmm...a project to figure the grains of sand for 12 year olds....


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/archimedes/media/lrk_sand.pdf


Now show everyone a link to an economic textbook that refers to "jobs saved"?

And you really think that number of the grains of sand would be accurate?

within a margin of error it would

The same could be said for an estimate of saved jobs.

 

[Polk]

Blaming Obama for the high unemployment rate is like blaming your doctor because you slept with a prostitute(Phil Gramm) and got gonorrhea.

Hmm....what was the unemployment rate under Bush...

I believe it got as high as 7%

7.6% when he left office. It was 4.2% when he took office.

 

[immto]

Hmm....what was the unemployment rate under Bush...

I believe it got as high as 7%

7.6% when he left office. It was 4.2% when he took office.

So that means Bush had an increase of 3.4% in eight years and Obama has had an increase of 2.6% in the last 18 months. Do you believe this some how proves your point?

First, I'm not a Bush Fan so I'm not sure why you even brought that to my attention, I never held Bush on some pedestal of how a great conservative runs things. I know allot of what we have right now is his fault but no where near the bulk of it. I think he did make mistakes but let's not forget he was directed into much of it and the bail out process that he started was heavily pushed by Obama himself. President elect Obama met with Bush to push the idea. So Bush had 2 choices, Now or Later.

 

[immto]

I've been spending allot of time on this message board lately and I've found that many people are really confused about quite allot actually. At first I thought it was just people who maybe didn't spend as much time as I watching and reading. But I've come to understand that many people are really simply set in their belief on one topic or another with no backup or support. I come to a head with folks who simply believe a thing and can't even explain why they believe it and question facts of mine without understanding basic principles behind them.

I know this all sounds very vague and I'm only writing that way because I don't want to point any fingers at specific individuals. But all this has got me thinking and the only explanation I can come up with is that there is no much dis-information out there. At first i feared that maybe some of the Liberals were right but then I noticed that most of the folks who were dead wrong, were beating the Liberal Drum. I don't think this is mistake. I really believe that the Left is capitalizing on the fact that so many folks will simply take a side that is put in front of them and run with it.



Scary I know but how else can you explain so many people who actually believe in Saved Jobs? I've been hammered about how Schools and Police have been saved by the stimulus. Try as I might I cannot get them to understand that if stimulus is the ONLY thing saving the job, it's not really saved. Once the Stimulus runs out the job is still GONE. The system needs to be able to support the job long term on it's own for the job to be saved. If I hire someone knowing that I can't afford to pay them past a certain point, that is a temp job, not a career position. Throwing money at an industry or sector to avoid someone from being fired is not a saved job.

Argue all you want about whether or not people are still employed and whether or not you can even calculate it, it's not a saved job unless YOU KNOW there is no end in sight for that job. If you need to count on a recovery or an increase in revenue or an expansion in some government program in order for the job to remain than it's NOT A SAVED JOB! Sure some folks are still working thanks to stimulus spending, that is not an indication that anything is improved.

If I'm broke, unemployed and close to losing my house with a Housekeeper and a Gardner on my payroll. Then someone hands me $100,000.00. I choose to keep my Housekeeper and Gardner instead of paying for my mortgage and bills. Are those jobs really saved? I'm going to lose the house, they are going to lose their jobs it's just a matter of time, unless I find a new job or win the lottery. So their job security is connected my job security. Without that situation changing the overall collapse is still in sight.

The same holds true for Teachers, Police, City Workers or Corporate Executives. If you don't change the system to make it more profitable or less costly then nothing is really changed by simply adding more money. You only change the time frame in which it all comes to a crashing end.