What is a fair tax rate?

[Toro]

Oh, I'd keep corporate tax rates low, 10%-15% tops. But I'd close down all these international loopholes companies use.

 

[Saigon]

It is but you must spell it out so they cannot dance and parse.. 50% of Americans pay ZERO FEDERAL INCOME TAX. we have to carry these leeches around on our backs.

And most of those leeches are either retired or mentally handicapped.

 

[Saigon]

BTW an across-the-board VAT is far more regressive than an across-the-board flat tax.

It is, but it is also so essential that I believe the US i now the only develped country without one.

That bite from the shadow economy is worth BILLIONS.

The GOP should be pushing it for all they're worth.

 

[Rozman]

Probably what ever the Libs can get away with taking from us
would be considered a good starting off point....
As much as they can get to provide

Free housing
Free medical,and money set aside for lots of birth control of course.
Free education
Free abortion on demand.
Food stamps
Welfare....

Oh and they will argue that they only want what's "fair"...

They just are never clear on what that means.

 

[Toro]

Isn't it amazing that so many poters think 10% - 15% is enough to run a government - and yet can not find a single place and time where it has ever worked.

Weird.

It worked throughout the 19th century.

Throughout history, there have only been two centuries when there have been any meaningful increase in per capita GDP - the 19th and the 20th. (It's happening in the 21st century too, but we'll wait until the end of it before making any grand proclamations.) Through most of this time, taxes in the rich and growing nations were between 5% and 20% of GDP. It is only around WWII and the creation of the vast, expansive welfare state has this not been true.

 

[Toro]

BTW an across-the-board VAT is far more regressive than an across-the-board flat tax.

It is, but it is also so essential that I believe the US i now the only develped country without one.

That bite from the shadow economy is worth BILLIONS.

The GOP should be pushing it for all they're worth.

Spoken like a true European.

People don't like taxes here. No, they REALLY don't like taxes. I've lived and traveled extensively in Europe, and it's not the same. In Canada - which is US-lite - when the Tories implemented the GST, a Canadian VAT, it lead to the unprecedented destruction of the ruling Tory party. If that was the reaction in Canada, where they are more tolerant of taxes, a national VAT is absolutely toxic in the US. I can't ever see it happening.

 

[chikenwing]

Who cares???

10% is plenty of money to run the gov't and protect the people... Everything else is just poorly spent money. What does the gov't do better than the private sector?

Unfortunately no country in the world has ever been foolih enough to try the idea, and I think most of us undertand why not.

The US would be bankrupt within a month.

True enough,because they spend more than they take in

We already are bankrupt,it would,t matter if the rate was 80% for everyone,it wouldn't be enough.

The problem is spending,not taxing.

10% sounds about right,no more no less.

 

[Sactowndog]

OK, we'd all like to pay 0%, but what tax rates do you think would be fair - and sustainable?

For simplicity, I've broken it down here into these main categories:

Low income 20%
Middle income 27.5%
High income 35%

Corporate tax 30%

VAT 15%

Tax on dividends & shares 25%

Any other major tax categories needed?

My plan is to raise income for the state with a VAT, which will hit the shadow economy and mean even drug dealers are paying some tax.

With that extra income I can then trim corporate taxes.

Feel free to add more details in - I did this very quickly!

Who cares what is fair. I care more what will get our economy moving and help to create jobs.

Capital gains is more than dividends and shares.

We also need to take a page from Asian countries and make it harder to export capital out of the country. So I would add a capital export tax.

Lastly you forgot Estate tax....

My model.....

Income and capital gains taxed in 5 tiers

0 - 30k. 1%
30k - 60k 10%
60 - 100. 20%
100 - 200 25%
200 - up. 30%
Rational: graduated but too high reduces incentive to work. No break for capital gains as most people invest globally so the break to invest rational no longer holds

Corporate income Tax. 0%
No corporate income tax will spur job growth and encourage investment from other countries. It will also allow us to bring profits back home

VAT 0%
Too much work to administer. If you want to tax drug profits make it legal

Corporate capital exportation tax 25%
This will reduce the incentive to offshore jobs and keep capital in the country.

Estate tax. 50%
You have the rights to enjoy the benefits of you labor but your heirs aren't you. The tax actually incents smart people to work as Daddy's millions won't be available to you.

 

[Sactowndog]

Isn't it amazing that so many poters think 10% - 15% is enough to run a government - and yet can not find a single place and time where it has ever worked.

Weird.

It worked throughout the 19th century.

Throughout history, there have only been two centuries when there have been any meaningful increase in per capita GDP - the 19th and the 20th. (It's happening in the 21st century too, but we'll wait until the end of it before making any grand proclamations.) Through most of this time, taxes in the rich and growing nations were between 5% and 20% of GDP. It is only around WWII and the creation of the vast, expansive welfare state has this not been true.

You can't run the government on 10% and be the worlds policeman with defense consuming 6-7% of GDP. Unfortunately many Republicans irrationally want to have it both ways. Say what you will about Ron Paul but at least he is honest.

 

[Saigon]

Spoken like a true European.

People don't like taxes here. No, they REALLY don't like taxes. I've lived and traveled extensively in Europe, and it's not the same. In Canada - which is US-lite - when the Tories implemented the GST, a Canadian VAT, it lead to the unprecedented destruction of the ruling Tory party. If that was the reaction in Canada, where they are more tolerant of taxes, a national VAT is absolutely toxic in the US. I can't ever see it happening.

But Conservative Americans SHOULD like a VAT.

I realise the idea is not at all popular, but I think that is largely because the GOP has become quite extreme, and totally out of step with what conservatives in other countries are doing.

Good tax policy is not alway about what is popular - it should be about what is the most effective and democratic method of bringing in money.

At the moment millions of Americans pay very little tax because they work for cash. Illegal immigrants, drug dealers, plumbers and labourers should pay their share too, shouldn't they?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Flat tax across the board...

10 percent of all income regardless of the source no deductions no exceptions.

We would see a net gain in revenue and a huge savings by gutting the irs

 

[Sactowndog]

OK, we'd all like to pay 0%, but what tax rates do you think would be fair - and sustainable?

For simplicity, I've broken it down here into these main categories:

Low income 20%
Middle income 27.5%
High income 35%

Corporate tax 30%

VAT 15%

Tax on dividends & shares 25%

Any other major tax categories needed?

My plan is to raise income for the state with a VAT, which will hit the shadow economy and mean even drug dealers are paying some tax.

With that extra income I can then trim corporate taxes.

Feel free to add more details in - I did this very quickly!

I only know a couple of things about it

1) Reagan began to borrow from foreign banks to finance tax cuts for the wealthy. He and Bush 41 quadrupled the national debt from less than $1 trillion to more than $4 trillion. George Bush came along in 2001, cut taxes twice and doubled the national debt again...from $5.7 trillion to nearly $12 trillion.

2) In the past this nation has pulled together and met any challenge it has faced. After the second world war we had massive debts and anyone who made more than $300,000 per year paid 91% of the excess in federal income tax...under one Republican president I might add.

Right now this country is more divided than at any time during my 78 years. The rich keep getting richer and even though tax rates are at the lowest levels they've been in forty years the conservatives want more tax cuts. I have a question for them. If low taxes create more jobs where the fuck are they?

Listen Closely!

TRICKLE DOWN DOESN'T WORK!

Yes it does. Have you been to Shanghai, Saigon or Mumbai recently. It works quite well but it just doesn't stop at national borders like it did in the 80's. The wealthy know this and feel they are doing well for the world and lining their pockets at the same time.

 

[Toro]

Isn't it amazing that so many poters think 10% - 15% is enough to run a government - and yet can not find a single place and time where it has ever worked.

Weird.

It worked throughout the 19th century.

Throughout history, there have only been two centuries when there have been any meaningful increase in per capita GDP - the 19th and the 20th. (It's happening in the 21st century too, but we'll wait until the end of it before making any grand proclamations.) Through most of this time, taxes in the rich and growing nations were between 5% and 20% of GDP. It is only around WWII and the creation of the vast, expansive welfare state has this not been true.

You can't run the government on 10% and be the worlds policeman with defense consuming 6-7% of GDP. Unfortunately many Republicans irrationally want to have it both ways. Say what you will about Ron Paul but at least he is honest.

I'm not saying we should. I'm saying that it has been done.

 

[spectrumc01]

Before we can decide on a tax %, we need to decide just what the governments job is. I think the government has four jobs. 1) represent the USA on the world stage. 2) coin money. 3) protect our borders (military). 4) maintain a equal playing field for every citizen (supreme court). Of course there are operating costs to go along with this, salaries of gov't employees and such. Once we find out how much all of this costs we set the tax rate accordingly. Set tax to a flat rate no deductions to cover the costs.

Government employees, to include senators and representatives, should be paid what the average income for their district is. Readjusted every term. If the people in your district get an increase in their salaries you get a raise, if they go down you loose income right along with them. That is fair.

Before touching social security and medicare / medicade, we need to do away with all the non essentials. Non essentials being overseas military bases (except Germany). Lowering salaries of government employees to above standards. There are so many others to list, but you get the idea. Remove the federal government and replace it with state government, I believe our state taxes should be higher than our federal taxes anyway.

 

[Saigon]

Flat tax across the board...

10 percent of all income regardless of the source no deductions no exceptions.

We would see a net gain in revenue and a huge savings by gutting the irs

Nonsense - you would lose in excess of US$1.5 trillion per year.

If you want a flat tax rate, you'll probably be paying around 30%.

 

[Shelzin]

Isn't it amazing that so many poters think 10% - 15% is enough to run a government - and yet can not find a single place and time where it has ever worked.

Weird.

It worked throughout the 19th century.

Throughout history, there have only been two centuries when there have been any meaningful increase in per capita GDP - the 19th and the 20th. (It's happening in the 21st century too, but we'll wait until the end of it before making any grand proclamations.) Through most of this time, taxes in the rich and growing nations were between 5% and 20% of GDP. It is only around WWII and the creation of the vast, expansive welfare state has this not been true.

You can't run the government on 10% and be the worlds policeman with defense consuming 6-7% of GDP.

That's perfect.

Policemen get paid to police. The US isn't the policemen of the world, nobody is paying the bill. Policemen of the world would be looking out for the interests of the world, not just the United States.

First Knight: What we hold to be right, and good, and true IS right and good and true for all men. Otherwise we're just another robber tribe

Unfortunately many Republicans irrationally want to have it both ways. Say what you will about Ron Paul but at least he is honest.

And Gary Jonson.

 

[Sactowndog]

OK, we'd all like to pay 0%, but what tax rates do you think would be fair - and sustainable?

For simplicity, I've broken it down here into these main categories:

Low income 20%
Middle income 27.5%
High income 35%

Corporate tax 30%

VAT 15%

Tax on dividends & shares 25%

Any other major tax categories needed?

My plan is to raise income for the state with a VAT, which will hit the shadow economy and mean even drug dealers are paying some tax.

With that extra income I can then trim corporate taxes.

Feel free to add more details in - I did this very quickly!

A fair tax schedule is one that does not burden the national economy unfairly or without solid justifrication for it in the first place.

There are no hard and fast numbers, the rate truly depends on the state of the nation at the time.

Do remember that even the highest rates are NOT placed on every dollar, but only those dollars that are in the next hihger rate of taxation.

EVeryone actually pays the EXACT same rates of taxes, but everyone's incomes' do not all get taxed at EVERY rate of taxation that the schedule has because everyone does not make enough money for THOSE ADDIONAL DOLLARS to be taxed.

The facts are that whatever is published for tax rates is a joke. When a bastard can inheirit money, invest it in equities or municipal bonds and end up paying 14% on $14 million of earnings when my wife and I pay 16% on about $80,000 is some kind of weird scam. Add to that our local and state taxes which would be a pittance for a rich person and we...WE are the ones paying the bills.

This true except he is probably not investing in Muni's because the return is too low. More likely he is investing in a hedge fund which his using his money plus debt to buy the company down the street. And what is the result:

1) The other local business down the street can't expand because capital isn't available.

2) the leveraged hedge fund owned company off shores the US employees so they can generate free cash flow to service the debt

3) the hedge fund company reduces their tax bite significantly with the interest expense being paid on the debt.

So for the joy of fewer US jobs and lower corporate tax receipts we gladly ask the wealthy hedge fund investor to pay 15% in taxes with no payroll taxes while you pay about 50% combined on your income.

 

[Sactowndog]

OK, we'd all like to pay 0%, but what tax rates do you think would be fair - and sustainable?

For simplicity, I've broken it down here into these main categories:

Low income 20%
Middle income 27.5%
High income 35%

Corporate tax 30%

VAT 15%

Tax on dividends & shares 25%

Any other major tax categories needed?

My plan is to raise income for the state with a VAT, which will hit the shadow economy and mean even drug dealers are paying some tax.

With that extra income I can then trim corporate taxes.

Feel free to add more details in - I did this very quickly!

A fair tax schedule is one that does not burden the national economy unfairly or without solid justifrication for it in the first place.

There are no hard and fast numbers, the rate truly depends on the state of the nation at the time.

Do remember that even the highest rates are NOT placed on every dollar, but only those dollars that are in the next hihger rate of taxation.

EVeryone actually pays the EXACT same rates of taxes, but everyone's incomes' do not all get taxed at EVERY rate of taxation that the schedule has because everyone does not make enough money for THOSE ADDIONAL DOLLARS to be taxed.

The facts are that whatever is published for tax rates is a joke. When a bastard can inheirit money, invest it in equities or municipal bonds and end up paying 14% on $14 million of earnings when my wife and I pay 16% on about $80,000 is some kind of weird scam. Add to that our local and state taxes which would be a pittance for a rich person and we...WE are the ones paying the bills.

It worked throughout the 19th century.

Throughout history, there have only been two centuries when there have been any meaningful increase in per capita GDP - the 19th and the 20th. (It's happening in the 21st century too, but we'll wait until the end of it before making any grand proclamations.) Through most of this time, taxes in the rich and growing nations were between 5% and 20% of GDP. It is only around WWII and the creation of the vast, expansive welfare state has this not been true.

You can't run the government on 10% and be the worlds policeman with defense consuming 6-7% of GDP. Unfortunately many Republicans irrationally want to have it both ways. Say what you will about Ron Paul but at least he is honest.

I'm not saying we should. I'm saying that it has been done.

Has it been done by an empire without running a deficit? I don't know the finances of 19th century Britain. I do know that the life described by Dickens is not one I aspire to. My ancestors left there for a reason.

 

[Sactowndog]

Before we can decide on a tax %, we need to decide just what the governments job is. I think the government has four jobs. 1) represent the USA on the world stage. 2) coin money. 3) protect our borders (military). 4) maintain a equal playing field for every citizen (supreme court). Of course there are operating costs to go along with this, salaries of gov't employees and such. Once we find out how much all of this costs we set the tax rate accordingly. Set tax to a flat rate no deductions to cover the costs.

Government employees, to include senators and representatives, should be paid what the average income for their district is. Readjusted every term. If the people in your district get an increase in their salaries you get a raise, if they go down you loose income right along with them. That is fair.

Before touching social security and medicare / medicade, we need to do away with all the non essentials. Non essentials being overseas military bases (except Germany). Lowering salaries of government employees to above standards. There are so many others to list, but you get the idea. Remove the federal government and replace it with state government, I believe our state taxes should be higher than our federal taxes anyway.

I find it interesting that many Libertarians who so value the founding fathers completely ignore that they specifically had the debate about the value of public education and the role of government such as Federal land grant schools.

Our founding fathers were not as convinced as to the role of private markets as today's libertarians

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You want a VAT tax on top of all the other taxes?!?!

Two words.......Fuck You