What do Communist, Socialist mean?

[TakeAStepBack]

With the seizure of the means of production by society, production of commodities is done away with, and with it the dominion of the product over the producers. Anarchy of social production is replaced by conscious organization according to plan. The whole sphere of the conditions of life which surround men, which ruled men up until now comes under the dominion and conscious control of men, who become for the first time the real, conscious lords of nature, because and in that they become master of their own social organization. The laws of their own social activity, which confronted them until this point as alien laws of nature, controlling them, then are applied by men with full understanding, and so mastered by them. Only from then on will men make their history themselves in full consciousness; only from then on will the social causes they set in motion have in the main and in constantly increasing proportion, also the results intended by them. It is the leap of mankind from the realm of necessity to the realm of freedom

~Engels.

 

[konradv]

Sounds like a chance for a golden slumber.

Is that what you call it, when you don't make it out of the refrigerator box in time to pee?

 

[Full-Auto]

We're all libertarians. But there's a big difference between wanting to be left alone as much as possible and saying anything government does is stealing our freedoms. That sort of freedom is only possible, if you're the only inhabitant of a given area. As soon as someone else shows up, the whole dynamic changes.

There you go with another false line in the sand.

Which strongly reinforces a point.

What about "steeling our freedoms" isn't a "line in the sand"? You like to say things like that with a lot less proof than I've offered. You never seem to counter anything with alternate solutions, just lame platitudes about "freedom" and ridicule of opponents. That's the trouble with "isms", long on philosophy, short on practical solutions.

Has the freedom to choose whether I decide to insure my health, been taken away?


I dont need to go further. I already have the advantage.

Your serve COMRADE......

 

[konradv]

Libertarians love discussing other philosophies but can't even explain their own.

Non-responsive to the question.

It was a leading question. A typical libertarian ruse, suggesting "if you don't like this, you have to be with us". It's just sloganeering. It solves no problems.

Someone wake me when these two idiots say something worth reading.

Same to you, fella. I've seen nothing but lame, nothing responses. Got anything besides, "we should all do this" or "nobody should be doing that"?

 

[Crackerjack]

Libertarians love discussing other philosophies but can't even explain their own.

It was a leading question. A typical libertarian ruse, suggesting "if you don't like this, you have to be with us". It's just sloganeering. It solves no problems.

Someone wake me when these two idiots say something worth reading.

Same to you, fella. I've seen nothing but lame, nothing responses. Got anything besides, "we should all do this" or "nobody should be doing that"?

And I said that where?

Back to sleep ...

 

[g5000]

There are clever people who are aware of a widespread ignorance in our society. And these people take advantage and redefine what words mean since their audience doesn't know any different.

Whoever gets to write on the blank slate of the gullible masses first has the great advantage.

However, the people don't like to be made fools of, and this is where things get really nasty. When you point out they have been misled, rather than acknowledge the mistake, they strive ever harder to believe what they were first told. They seek to reinforce their mistake.

Just reading the first couple pages of this topic has been an Orwellian experience.

This experience is not unique to the Right. I have seen it just as prevelant on the Left. Nor is it unique to politics. I spent many years in the paranormal community and seen it there, in spades, too.

Our society desperately needs an education on the subject of critical thinking. There is a serious lack of it in America today.

What is really spooky and particularly worrisome is the attitude that anyone who questions the prevailing "wisdom" must be from the enemy camp. That is the first step to totalitarianism, Left or Right.

 

[konradv]

Has the freedom to choose whether I decide to insure my health, been taken away?

I dont need to go further. I already have the advantage.

Your serve COMRADE......

I thought libertarians were against "free loaders"? Are you suggesting we should leave injured people on the side of the road until their insurance situation is confirmed?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Sounds like a chance for a golden slumber.

Is that what you call it, when you don't make it out of the refrigerator box in time to pee?

Seriously, that's actually funny. You should move over to making jokes and leave the important debates to those that understand what they are talking about. Because you clearly have no fucking idea regarding libertarian ideology.

Most of all, public campaign finance reform is a fucking horrible idea and has been shown as such on this very board over and over and yet, you keep throwing it back out there as if it is A) a good idea B) viable C) will ever get passed into law.

 

[Full-Auto]

Has the freedom to choose whether I decide to insure my health, been taken away?

I dont need to go further. I already have the advantage.

Your serve COMRADE......

I thought libertarians were against "free loaders"? Are you suggesting we should leave injured people on the side of the road until their insurance situation is confirmed?

We are.

But you insist I get insurance to pay for you.

Try and bring some game for a change.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

i.e. you don't know either. Thanks for the confirmation. Punking out when it comes to 'nuts and bolts' is a libertarian forte. They react very negatively whenever a magnifying glass is used on their philosophy. Like Marxism, it doesn't stand up to close scrutiny.

You dont have any idea what it means to be libertarian, you only know what your masters have told you.

If you wish to become serious at any point I would be happy to school you.

We're all libertarians. But there's a big difference between wanting to be left alone as much as possible and saying anything government does is stealing our freedoms. That sort of freedom is only possible, if you're the only inhabitant of a given area. As soon as someone else shows up, the whole dynamic changes.

all...? hardly...

even Ayn Rand....who is the idol of many libertarians.....despised libertarianism....

...because libertarianism....or any form of anarchy.....is a threat is a threat to freedom and capitalism....

 

[konradv]

Someone wake me when these two idiots say something worth reading.

Same to you, fella. I've seen nothing but lame, nothing responses. Got anything besides, "we should all do this" or "nobody should be doing that"?

And I said that where?

The problem is that you've really haven't said anything at all. Given that, I filled in the blanks with what libertarians usually say. Want to clear things up? Post something substantive.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Libertarians love discussing other philosophies but can't even explain their own.

Non-responsive to the question.

It was a leading question. A typical libertarian ruse, suggesting "if you don't like this, you have to be with us". It's just sloganeering. It solves no problems.

Someone wake me when these two idiots say something worth reading.

Exactly what Rip Van Winkle said before his snooze

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Socialist? Communist? I often notice some of you extreme righties throw the invective, “communist” or “socialist” around. It looks like these invectives mean to you anyone to your left. If they mean something else, would one of you please explain to us what you mean by these?

All one needs to note is that you begin your phony inquiry by characterizing classical liberals, you know, those of us who still hold to the political ideology of the Founders, as "extreme righties". You unwittingly expose yourself for what you are. LOL! The Founders and their acolytes are extremists?! So what's that make you, given that you find the Lockean philosophy of our Founding to be so distasteful?

As for explaining it to you. . . . ROTFLMAO! Just read the sentiments posted by the leftists on this thread, spouting nonsense about feudalism, the strong preying on the weak, redistribution of property, governmentally enforced collective rights against individual liberty, free association and free markets: all these things, classic Marxist speak. One of you leftists comes right out and unabashedly proclaims that he is a socialist, while the rest of you echo his sentiments and simultaneously fault the classical liberals for calling you socialists!

Are you kidding me? You admit what you are. I don't have to throw invective at you; you pile it upon youselves as you pretend to be something other. Just how obliviously stupid are you?

 

[Crackerjack]

Same to you, fella. I've seen nothing but lame, nothing responses. Got anything besides, "we should all do this" or "nobody should be doing that"?

And I said that where?

The problem is that you've really haven't said anything at all. Given that, I filled in the blanks with what libertarians usually say. Want to clear things up? Post something substantive.

In other words, you lied.

As for posting something substantive, I've learned it's not worth the pixels to do anything but make fun of shitbirds like you and Fakey, so that's what I'll do.

If you don't like that, you're free to fuck right off.

 

[konradv]

Sounds like a chance for a golden slumber.

Is that what you call it, when you don't make it out of the refrigerator box in time to pee?

Seriously, that's actually funny. You should move over to making jokes and leave the important debates to those that understand what they are talking about. Because you clearly have no fucking idea regarding libertarian ideology.

Most of all, public campaign finance reform is a fucking horrible idea and has been shown as such on this very board over and over and yet, you keep throwing it back out there as if it is A) a good idea B) viable C) will ever get passed into law.

There you have it, libertarian "ideology". I'm afraid we've had enough of those. I'm just taking it to its logical conclusions, using human nature as my guide. Libertarians never explain how with minimal regulation, we escape some of the strong preying on the weak. It's human nature to seek advantage wherever it lies. Whether its bribing Congress with campaign donations, taking advantage of someone's ignorance or simply taking, because one is stronger. Libertarianism never explains how the shady side of human nature doesn't come to the fore and become the the real "ethic" of the system.

 

[kwc57]

Socialist? Communist? I often notice some of you extreme righties throw the invective, “communist” or “socialist” around. It looks like these invectives mean to you anyone to your left. If they mean something else, would one of you please explain to us what you mean by these?

Those words have become conservative dogma. Use of such words denotes mental laziness.

Actually they are accurate descriptions of a growing cancer in our society. The fact that you can't recognize that says more about you than the people who are correctly using the terms.

 

[konradv]

And I said that where?

The problem is that you've really haven't said anything at all. Given that, I filled in the blanks with what libertarians usually say. Want to clear things up? Post something substantive.

In other words, you lied.

As for posting something substantive, I've learned it's not worth the pixels to do anything but make fun of shitbirds like you and Fakey, so that's what I'll do.

If you don't like that, you're free to fuck right off.

Same to you, .

You're just proving to me that libertarianism is platitudes without solutions. Whenever they're called on to explain inconsistencies, they take on a smug pomposity that's supposed to count as logic.

 

[Crackerjack]

The problem is that you've really haven't said anything at all. Given that, I filled in the blanks with what libertarians usually say. Want to clear things up? Post something substantive.

In other words, you lied.

As for posting something substantive, I've learned it's not worth the pixels to do anything but make fun of shitbirds like you and Fakey, so that's what I'll do.

If you don't like that, you're free to fuck right off.

Same to you, .

You're just proving to me that libertarianism is platitudes without solutions. Whenever they're called on to explain inconsistencies, they take on a smug pomposity that's supposed to count as logic.

And you just proved to the board that confirmation bias is alive and well. Oh, and that you're unteachable, too.

Carry on.

 

[kwc57]

Everyone but dupe/cold war dinosaur/morons agree:

Communist: China, Cuba, N. Korea- totalitarian central planning, state owned everything, never democratic, always put in by revolution..

Socialist- France, Sweden Germany, ALWAYS democratic, some nationaliztion of industry NEEDED by people- health, energy- capitalism regulated to protect citizenry. "Social democrats".

Fascism- Corporate/dictatorship RW nationalistic/militaristic, often racist wackjobs lol.

That's pretty ridiculous too. While socialist parties did play a role in France, Sweden, Germany, etc. it is ridiculous to classify these countries as socialist. They are in essence free market economies, with an elaborate welfare state.

Your definition of Fascism is pretty off too.

franco is one of our resident liberal trolls. Pay him no mind.

 

[kwc57]

Watch the libertarians above squirm like four year olds when trying to explain what they believe.

Funny little folk they are.

JakeFakey,

Tell us again about all of your "conservative" beliefs?