What caused the national debt?

[NYcarbineer]

Not paying for wars with taxes is the leading cause of the accumulation of national debt over the past 30 years.

The last war we raised taxes to pay for was Vietnam. Since then we have had 4 major wars (considered 'major' based on cost for purposes of this discussion)

the remainder of the Cold War

the first Iraq war.

the Afghanistan war.

the second Iraq war.

Instead of tax hikes to pay for the extraordinary costs of those wars (as was this nation's practice in the past), we have in fact had tax CUTS during 3 of the 4.

Simple math will show you that the money borrowed to fight these wars (in lieu of tax revenues), and the ongoing interest cost of servicing those war debts are primarily responsible for where we are fiscally at this point.

 

[flacaltenn]

Not paying for wars with taxes is the leading cause of the accumulation of national debt over the past 30 years.

The last war we raised taxes to pay for was Vietnam. Since then we have had 4 major wars (considered 'major' based on cost for purposes of this discussion)

the remainder of the Cold War

the first Iraq war.

the Afghanistan war.

the second Iraq war.

Instead of tax hikes to pay for the extraordinary costs of those wars (as was this nation's practice in the past), we have in fact had tax CUTS during 3 of the 4.

Simple math will show you that the money borrowed to fight these wars (in lieu of tax revenues), and the ongoing interest cost of servicing those war debts are primarily responsible for where we are fiscally at this point.

Federal revenues almost doubled from 1980 to 1990. And it nearly doubled from 1990 to 2000. In 2000 Fed revenues were close to 4 times what they were in 1980.. So for MOST of your 30 year period, the govt suffered not the least from tax policy...

What's happened SINCE 2000, Could be interpreted as a tax cut issue, but no amount of tax policy can fix the arrogance and extravagance of the spending that we've seen since 2000. As a percent of GDP, revenue is actually not much different than during 90's..

"""It's the economy stupid""" --- Carville...

 

[Avatar4321]

Sweden has one of the fast growing economies in the world.
Gaze upon the horrible face of socialism....

it took them 900 years to acheive it.

We have been one of the strongest economies for years...taking a mere 200 years to acheive it.

So we hit a bump in the road. Shit happens and you learn from it.

Are you one to say "cancel air flight becuase of one plane accident"?

"who cares how well we were doing.....it broke so lets dismantle it and try something different"

Me? I say "dont make major changes, just learn from the accident and make minor changes to make sure it doesnt happen again"

Or we can find a "new way" and let it take 900 years to develop.

That has to be one of the lamest posts ever.

Because posting pictures of underage girls is so much less lame right?

 

[Avatar4321]

BTW Chris, if Sweden is such a socialist paradise, why are you living in a capitalist country like the United States? You could easily move there, get a job, and let us have the type of government we want.

My guess, however, is there isnt a mass migration of people to Sweden.

 

[Rozman]

What caused the national debt?

Our elected leaders spent too much.

No secret the Bush tax cuts were coming like New Orleans new Katrina was on it's way...
They knew they were no longer gonna get the revenue that they got before the Bush tax cuts took effect...What did they do knowing they were not getting that revenue....they spent more.

Tired of hearing all our problems are because Bush let people keep more of THEIR money....

 

[NYcarbineer]

Not paying for wars with taxes is the leading cause of the accumulation of national debt over the past 30 years.

The last war we raised taxes to pay for was Vietnam. Since then we have had 4 major wars (considered 'major' based on cost for purposes of this discussion)

the remainder of the Cold War

the first Iraq war.

the Afghanistan war.

the second Iraq war.

Instead of tax hikes to pay for the extraordinary costs of those wars (as was this nation's practice in the past), we have in fact had tax CUTS during 3 of the 4.

Simple math will show you that the money borrowed to fight these wars (in lieu of tax revenues), and the ongoing interest cost of servicing those war debts are primarily responsible for where we are fiscally at this point.

Federal revenues almost doubled from 1980 to 1990. And it nearly doubled from 1990 to 2000. In 2000 Fed revenues were close to 4 times what they were in 1980.. So for MOST of your 30 year period, the govt suffered not the least from tax policy...

What's happened SINCE 2000, Could be interpreted as a tax cut issue, but no amount of tax policy can fix the arrogance and extravagance of the spending that we've seen since 2000. As a percent of GDP, revenue is actually not much different than during 90's..

"""It's the economy stupid""" --- Carville...

Revenue is around 14% of GDP. It was 20% of GDP in 2000. What are you talking about?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Not paying for wars with taxes is the leading cause of the accumulation of national debt over the past 30 years.

The last war we raised taxes to pay for was Vietnam. Since then we have had 4 major wars (considered 'major' based on cost for purposes of this discussion)

the remainder of the Cold War

the first Iraq war.

the Afghanistan war.

the second Iraq war.

Instead of tax hikes to pay for the extraordinary costs of those wars (as was this nation's practice in the past), we have in fact had tax CUTS during 3 of the 4.

Simple math will show you that the money borrowed to fight these wars (in lieu of tax revenues), and the ongoing interest cost of servicing those war debts are primarily responsible for where we are fiscally at this point.

Federal revenues almost doubled from 1980 to 1990. And it nearly doubled from 1990 to 2000. In 2000 Fed revenues were close to 4 times what they were in 1980.. So for MOST of your 30 year period, the govt suffered not the least from tax policy...

What's happened SINCE 2000, Could be interpreted as a tax cut issue, but no amount of tax policy can fix the arrogance and extravagance of the spending that we've seen since 2000. As a percent of GDP, revenue is actually not much different than during 90's..

"""It's the economy stupid""" --- Carville...

In constant dollars revenues were only up 25% from 1980 to 1990.

 

[skookerasbil]

What caused the national debt? 6 culprits - The Week

1. The Bush tax cuts
The biggest culprit? The 2001 and 2003 tax cuts under then-president George W. Bush, says the Associated Press. They have added an estimated $1.6 trillion to the national debt. It's pretty clear, says Brian Beutler at Talking Points Memo, that Bush-era policies, "particularly debt-financed tax cuts," make up "the lion's share of the problem." And they're ongoing, so the tab for them builds every year.

2. Health care entitlements
Democrats "constantly harp" about the Bush tax cuts, says Peter Morici at Seeking Alpha, but those rates were in place in 2007, and the deficit that year was one-tenth this year's budget shortfall of $1.6 trillion. So what has changed since then? Added "federal regulation, bureaucracy, and new Medicaid and other entitlements have pushed up federal spending by $1.1 trillion — $900 billion more than required by inflation." And down the road, says Yuval Levin at National Review, our "health-entitlement explosion" will account for "basically 100 percent" of our debt problem.

3. Medicare prescription drug benefit
Another piece of the pie: George W. Bush's addition of Medicare's prescription drug benefit. That has added $300 billion to the debt, according to the AP. Expanding entitlements like Medicare, or last year's health-care reform package, is a particularly tempting way for Congress to run up debt, says Jagadeesh Gokhale at The Daily Caller. Since lawmakers don't typically map out a revenue strategy to fund those benefits, they are "shielded from the political costs of actually paying for the new programs."

4. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
The tab for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan comes to $1.3 trillion, another major chunk of new, unexpected spending over the last decade. "These wars cost us plenty," says Nake M. Kamrany at The Huffington Post, and they "have to be financed with borrowing, which adds up to national debt."

5. Obama's economic stimulus
The 2009 stimulus package enacted by President Obama cost $800 billion. And the 2010 tax-cut compromise between Obama and Republicans, which extended jobless benefits and reduced payroll taxes, added another $400 billion to the debt. Add another $200 billion for the 2008 bailout of the financial industry, and the government's efforts to soften the blow of the Great Recession amount to one of the largest chunks of the debt build-up. The "federal budget was one good year away from balancing" after 2007, says Tom Blumer at News Busters. But in the years since, Obama and Democrats in Congress put that goal out of reach.

6. The Great Recession
Some of the spending gap came from factors outside the control of Congress and the White House. As the government spent heavily to boost the economy, says the AP, it took in hundreds of billions less in tax revenue than expected, because the Great Recession eroded Americans' income and spending.

Who cares s0n............all thats important now is that everyone and their brother wants Obama the fcukk out. For Christsakes........they took a poll today and that nut Ron Paul is in a dead heat with the president!!! HOLY MOTHER OF GOD. Not even I thought that was even remotely possible. But to be sure, the k00ks are going to be falling all over themselves in the next 16 months trying to convince people its 2006...........FTMFG!!!

To say the shine has completely worn off this fraud is an understatement. Like Carter, hes going to be viewed as a first class fcukk up. And who's going to be the happiest mofu on the face of the planet? George Bush!!!

 

[Mr. Jones]

Socialism will only work with a society of prisoners, slaves, and robots who can be controlled by the ruling elite (which will always exist in that type of system).

Do you not realize that our current system really is a form of slavery?
Look around and you'll see the prisoners, slaves, and robots you describe, that are not unique to socialism or any other term you want to use as the label for societal control.
We are all slaves to the debt that demands payment in various forms, but instead of physical slavery where the master houses, feeds and is responsible for the needs of his slaves, economic capitalism slavery, is designed to cut overhead by making the economic slaves in a capitalist society, free to provide these things for themselves.

Our current system is not a form of slavery.

Your stale old trite rhetoric is pathetic and unpersuasive, but at least it's baseless.

Sure it is. The fractional reserve policies of the banking system creates capitalism slavery. This point of view may be unpersuasive to you, but in reality is a fact.
Consider that money is created out of debt.
And what do you do when you are in debt?
You must submit to expending your labor to work to pay it off.

If money can only be created out of loans (more debt) how can we ever hope to be debt free? It is impossible, but that is the point of the system that is in place. To create a society that is in perpetual debt, this creates a society of slaves to work to (try) to pay it off.

We live in fear that we will be foreclosed on, or lose what possessions we have, be it a house, car, even our accustomed way of living, and we live with this fear and add to that the struggle to keep up with the perpetual debt and inflation that is built right into this system, compounded by the interest that can never be repaid, that keeps us, the wage slaves toiling away day after day, not to mention it is detrimental to our health.

When it's all said and done at the end of the day, we really are working for the banking system and the economic model that is in place has made slaves out of us running in the hamster wheel of life, until we are of no use or die.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs0TRYnScC8&feature=player_embedded]‪Capitalism_The System Of Modern Slavery‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

You aren't free to say no to many things you are forced to comply with either, so whether you admit to it or not, only have an illusion of freedom in the experiment that is America.

 

[Neotrotsky]

The Socialist Fist

too funny

a FISTER

 

[AquaAthena]

What caused the national debt? 6 culprits - The Week

1. The Bush tax cuts
The biggest culprit? The 2001 and 2003 tax cuts under then-president George W. Bush, says the Associated Press. They have added an estimated $1.6 trillion to the national debt. It's pretty clear, says Brian Beutler at Talking Points Memo, that Bush-era policies, "particularly debt-financed tax cuts," make up "the lion's share of the problem." And they're ongoing, so the tab for them builds every year.

2. Health care entitlements
Democrats "constantly harp" about the Bush tax cuts, says Peter Morici at Seeking Alpha, but those rates were in place in 2007, and the deficit that year was one-tenth this year's budget shortfall of $1.6 trillion. So what has changed since then? Added "federal regulation, bureaucracy, and new Medicaid and other entitlements have pushed up federal spending by $1.1 trillion — $900 billion more than required by inflation." And down the road, says Yuval Levin at National Review, our "health-entitlement explosion" will account for "basically 100 percent" of our debt problem.

3. Medicare prescription drug benefit
Another piece of the pie: George W. Bush's addition of Medicare's prescription drug benefit. That has added $300 billion to the debt, according to the AP. Expanding entitlements like Medicare, or last year's health-care reform package, is a particularly tempting way for Congress to run up debt, says Jagadeesh Gokhale at The Daily Caller. Since lawmakers don't typically map out a revenue strategy to fund those benefits, they are "shielded from the political costs of actually paying for the new programs."

4. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
The tab for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan comes to $1.3 trillion, another major chunk of new, unexpected spending over the last decade. "These wars cost us plenty," says Nake M. Kamrany at The Huffington Post, and they "have to be financed with borrowing, which adds up to national debt."

5. Obama's economic stimulus
The 2009 stimulus package enacted by President Obama cost $800 billion. And the 2010 tax-cut compromise between Obama and Republicans, which extended jobless benefits and reduced payroll taxes, added another $400 billion to the debt. Add another $200 billion for the 2008 bailout of the financial industry, and the government's efforts to soften the blow of the Great Recession amount to one of the largest chunks of the debt build-up. The "federal budget was one good year away from balancing" after 2007, says Tom Blumer at News Busters. But in the years since, Obama and Democrats in Congress put that goal out of reach.

6. The Great Recession
Some of the spending gap came from factors outside the control of Congress and the White House. As the government spent heavily to boost the economy, says the AP, it took in hundreds of billions less in tax revenue than expected, because the Great Recession eroded Americans' income and spending.

We, the voters!

 

[Mr. Jones]

Socialism will only work with a society of prisoners, slaves, and robots who can be controlled by the ruling elite (which will always exist in that type of system).

Do you not realize that our current system really is a form of slavery?
Look around and you'll see the prisoners, slaves, and robots you describe, that are not unique to socialism or any other term you want to use as the label for societal control.
We are all slaves to the debt that demands payment in various forms, but instead of physical slavery where the master houses, feeds and is responsible for the needs of his slaves, economic capitalism slavery, is designed to cut overhead by making the economic slaves in a capitalist society, free to provide these things for themselves.

Using your rather global definition of slavery....
All men are slaves to something, the key to freedom lies within them

Promoting the development of Centralized Planning will lead to more of us being "enslaved" to the state.

Because property rights are fundamental to any liberal society, any governments’ attempts at redistributing property
invites the truncation of many other political rights." The problem with the promoters of Statism, the gov't just never stops.I'll take this "slavery" any day over socialist slavery in the Gulags

A Hidden History of Evil- Soviet

True, however we really are facing more limitations in being able to express this freedom that, as you say, lies within. It has been, and currently still is being chipped away on a regular basis. This is the plan to stifle the coming protests and demands that will surely be forthcoming. You run the risk of being labeled a "terrorist" and accused of "treason" for simply wanting to restore sanity to the government.

It is important that we don't allow the state to run amok, the American political model is supposed to provide an equal opportunity, and an equal say in matters. It is failing.

As it stands all consideration has shifted to the elite class, with the acquiescence and blessings of the political leaders we have entrusted to protect our rights and to keep a level playing field. The lower tier is being forced to make due with less, all the time. But who cares about us anyway, we're just slaves....

As I said before, physical slavery requires people to be housed and fed, economic slavery requires people to feed and house themselves.

Take your pick from whatever social control mechanism you wish, they all boil down to a form of slavery, so even though you may be more then willing to except the capitalistic model compared to others, going around saying you are not a slave to any model of governance is really false when you think about it.

Even the fear imposed on us, for example of going from the current capitalistic system to becoming more socialist, or worse, keeps us all desperately holding on to our current form of slavery, even though it too is not perfect, which by the way has been undergoing more and more of a Fascist shift to it.

Capitalism is a system where profit and loss are kept private. If you make money, you keep it., If you lose money, that is your tough luck (or incompetence).

Socialism is a system in which both profit and loss are socialized across the population. If you make money, it is taxed to help those who lose money.

Fascism is a system in which profit is kept private and only losses are socialized. If you make money you keep it, and if you lose money, the government forces the general population to repay it.

Which system does the United States live under now in this age of endless Wall Street bailouts? Does this seem like a level playing field? Not hardly.

The big lie about capitalism is that everyone can be rich. That's impossible. Capitalism works only if the vast majority of the population are kept poor enough to never quit working, are kept poor enough to accept distasteful jobs society cannot function without. If everyone were a millionaire, who would empty the trash or repair the sewers? It follows that the poorer the general population is made, the greater the worth of the money held by the wealthy, in terms of the lives which may be bought and sold with it.


Also, truly free people can say "no". Free people can refuse demands for their money, time, and children. Slaves cannot. There is no freedom without the freedom to say "no". If someone demands that you do something and you can say "no" and refuse to do it, then you are a free human being. If you can be forced to do something or surrender something that you do not wish to, then you are a slave. No other test need be applied.

Beyond that, human greed and the tool that is the Federal Reserve with their fractional reserve system of banking to acquire more and more wealth, is nothing but a massive ponzi scheme, that is the root cause of our problems.

Under the Federal Reserve system, money doesn't exist until someone agrees to borrow and repay it with interest. Then the money is simply created out of thin air by the bank. To keep the system afloat, more borrowers must be found to allow the creation of more money at the bottom of the pyramid. When they talk about consumer confidence and expansion of the economy, what they are really talking about is the luring of new borrowers into the system. When they can no longer find new borrowers, the system collapses.

Which is what is happening now, hence the demand for and buying spree of real tangible assets like precious metals.

 

[Chris]

Reagan started it all with trickle down economics.

The rich are now trickling down on us.

 

[Chris]

What caused the national debt? 6 culprits - The Week

1. The Bush tax cuts
The biggest culprit? The 2001 and 2003 tax cuts under then-president George W. Bush, says the Associated Press. They have added an estimated $1.6 trillion to the national debt. It's pretty clear, says Brian Beutler at Talking Points Memo, that Bush-era policies, "particularly debt-financed tax cuts," make up "the lion's share of the problem." And they're ongoing, so the tab for them builds every year.

2. Health care entitlements
Democrats "constantly harp" about the Bush tax cuts, says Peter Morici at Seeking Alpha, but those rates were in place in 2007, and the deficit that year was one-tenth this year's budget shortfall of $1.6 trillion. So what has changed since then? Added "federal regulation, bureaucracy, and new Medicaid and other entitlements have pushed up federal spending by $1.1 trillion — $900 billion more than required by inflation." And down the road, says Yuval Levin at National Review, our "health-entitlement explosion" will account for "basically 100 percent" of our debt problem.

3. Medicare prescription drug benefit
Another piece of the pie: George W. Bush's addition of Medicare's prescription drug benefit. That has added $300 billion to the debt, according to the AP. Expanding entitlements like Medicare, or last year's health-care reform package, is a particularly tempting way for Congress to run up debt, says Jagadeesh Gokhale at The Daily Caller. Since lawmakers don't typically map out a revenue strategy to fund those benefits, they are "shielded from the political costs of actually paying for the new programs."

4. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
The tab for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan comes to $1.3 trillion, another major chunk of new, unexpected spending over the last decade. "These wars cost us plenty," says Nake M. Kamrany at The Huffington Post, and they "have to be financed with borrowing, which adds up to national debt."

5. Obama's economic stimulus
The 2009 stimulus package enacted by President Obama cost $800 billion. And the 2010 tax-cut compromise between Obama and Republicans, which extended jobless benefits and reduced payroll taxes, added another $400 billion to the debt. Add another $200 billion for the 2008 bailout of the financial industry, and the government's efforts to soften the blow of the Great Recession amount to one of the largest chunks of the debt build-up. The "federal budget was one good year away from balancing" after 2007, says Tom Blumer at News Busters. But in the years since, Obama and Democrats in Congress put that goal out of reach.

6. The Great Recession
Some of the spending gap came from factors outside the control of Congress and the White House. As the government spent heavily to boost the economy, says the AP, it took in hundreds of billions less in tax revenue than expected, because the Great Recession eroded Americans' income and spending.

Well done, my friend.

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Reagan started it all with trickle down economics.

The rich are now trickling down on us.

and sadly
Papa Obama is going to finish us off

Politifact-

Barack Obama will add more debt than 43 prior presidents

 

[Chris]

Reagan started it all with trickle down economics.

The rich are now trickling down on us.

and sadly
Papa Obama is going to finish us off

Politifact-

Barack Obama will add more debt than 43 prior presidents

Not hardly.

We had more debt under Truman.

All we need to do is repeal the Bush tax cuts and raise the top rate by 3%.

But Republicans are so anti American that they don't want to pay taxes.

 

[Neotrotsky]

If only it was that easy


The Left really is bad with math
Which explains why their spending and programs have
gotten us into such a financial mess

We have a spending problem not a taxing problem.

Three Little Pigs: How Entitlements Will Destroy Us

In the next few years, our major entitlement programs, in particular Social Security and Medicare, will begin to run cash-flow deficits, adding hundreds of billions each year to the debt. In fact, Social Security's total unfunded liabilities top $15.8 trillion, and depending on what accounting measure is used, Medicare's future shortfall could exceed $100 trillion.​

Nor can you tax your way out of debt. Eliminate all of the Bush tax cuts, including the tax cuts for low- and middle-income Americans, and you would reduce the debt by perhaps 10% — assuming you didn't cripple the economy in the process. Tax the rich? That won't get you there either. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, in order to pay for all currently scheduled federal spending would require raising both the corporate tax rate and top income tax rate from their current 35% to 88%, the current 25% tax rate for middle-income workers to 63%, and the 10% tax bracket for low-income workers to 25%.​

 

[Charles_Main]

1. The Bush tax cuts
The biggest culprit? The 2001 and 2003 tax cuts under then-president George W. Bush, says the Associated Press. They have added an estimated $1.6 trillion to the national debt. It's pretty clear, says Brian Beutler at Talking Points Memo, that Bush-era policies, "particularly debt-financed tax cuts," make up "the lion's share of the problem." And they're ongoing, so the tab for them builds every year.

Clearly not the Biggest Culprit. In 8 Years they have added 1.5 Trillion, or Roughly Half of what Obama's One stimulus Bill added in the stroke of the pen, and less than Entitlements add.

And what in the hell is this new term this asshole is trying to invent. "Debt Financed Tax Cuts" That's to fucking rich. Just Another Lefty who thinks of Money as belonging to the Government first, and they just let us keep some. Since the Tax Cuts went into effect. SPENDING went up. Why Blame the Tax cuts? had we simply not continued to increase spending, while making cuts, the would not be a problem.

 

[Charles_Main]

If only it was that easy


The Left really is bad with math
Which explains why their spending and programs have
gotten us into such a financial mess

We have a spending problem not a taxing problem.

Three Little Pigs: How Entitlements Will Destroy Us

In the next few years, our major entitlement programs, in particular Social Security and Medicare, will begin to run cash-flow deficits, adding hundreds of billions each year to the debt. In fact, Social Security's total unfunded liabilities top $15.8 trillion, and depending on what accounting measure is used, Medicare's future shortfall could exceed $100 trillion.​

Nor can you tax your way out of debt. Eliminate all of the Bush tax cuts, including the tax cuts for low- and middle-income Americans, and you would reduce the debt by perhaps 10% — assuming you didn't cripple the economy in the process. Tax the rich? That won't get you there either. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, in order to pay for all currently scheduled federal spending would require raising both the corporate tax rate and top income tax rate from their current 35% to 88%, the current 25% tax rate for middle-income workers to 63%, and the 10% tax bracket for low-income workers to 25%.​

They will never get it. They are trying to find ways to sustain the unsustainable. We can not get out of this problem by Increasing Taxes to cover the spending. The Only solution is spending less.

 

[Charles_Main]

Reagan started it all with trickle down economics.

The rich are now trickling down on us.

and sadly
Papa Obama is going to finish us off

Politifact-

Barack Obama will add more debt than 43 prior presidents

But Republicans are so anti American that they don't want to pay taxes.

Thanks for the classic line Chris. You are an idiot. This country was Born out of peoples frustration about A TAX!

You Liberals just do not get it. Not your Fault, your Government run Education system has failed to even teach you the Basic Facts about the Birth of this Nation.

To call not wanting to pay taxes Un-American demonstrates a clear lack of Understanding of America.