What caused the eonomic meltdown?

What was the MAIN cause of the meltdown?

  • George Bush & his policies

    Votes: 5 11.9%
  • Democrats

    Votes: 8 19.0%
  • A lack of banking regulation over 30 years

    Votes: 10 23.8%
  • Too much banking regulation

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • Other factors not listed here

    Votes: 18 42.9%

  • Total voters
    42
It was Bush's Dec 2003 American Dream Downpayment Initiative (ADDI) that changed the rules to allow no downpayment loans for more than the house was worth to people with bad credit who could not keep up with the payments and who were at least 20% below the standard of living for the neighborhood they were buying into.

And that was because Wall Street banker crooks were BEGGING his administration to somehow lower qualifications so that they would have more loans to bundle. The CRA did NOT cause it. Neither did Frannie and Freddie. They were among the LAST to lower loan qualifications and 85+% of sub-prime loans issued were from private lenders not insured by F&F. God, this has been debunked SO MANY TIMES. Why do you righties hold onto this lie???
 
It was Bush's Dec 2003 American Dream Downpayment Initiative (ADDI) that changed the rules to allow no downpayment loans for more than the house was worth to people with bad credit who could not keep up with the payments and who were at least 20% below the standard of living for the neighborhood they were buying into.

And that was because Wall Street banker crooks were BEGGING his administration to somehow lower qualifications so that they would have more loans to bundle. The CRA did NOT cause it. Neither did Frannie and Freddie. They were among the LAST to lower loan qualifications and 85+% of sub-prime loans issued were from private lenders not insured by F&F. God, this has been debunked SO MANY TIMES. Why do you righties hold onto this lie???

too stupid but perfectly liberal!! Fed policy was to stimulate the economy through mal investment in the housing market. Plus, much of federal and state government( CRA FHA AHLBB, etc etc) was organized to get people into homes the Republican free market said they could not afford. Does the idiot liberal think all those agencys and programs were created becuase the free market was creating too many mortgages???

our great newspapers and economists on left and right agree it was liberal government that caused the current depression.

"First consider the once controversial view that the crisis was largely caused by the Fed's holding interest rates too low for too long after the 2001 recession. This view is now so widely held that the editorial pages of both the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal agree on its validity!"...John B. Taylor


" The Federal reserve having done so much to create the problems in which the economy is now mired, having mistakenly thought that even after the housing bubble burst the problems were contained, and having underestimated the severity of the crisis, now wants to make a contribution to preventing the economy from sinking into a Japanese Style malaise....... - "Joseph Stiglitz"( uber left economist)

You may not have heard of the Federal Reserve system but it exists to inflate and deflate the currency supply through the housing market. They inflated too much for too long. This caused what they call a housing bubble. While the bubble was inflating all the big banks and many insurance companies bought bubble mortgages thinking they were sound rather than merely purchased or made possible by newly printed funny money. When the bubble deflated they all lost money on the mortgages. It would be analogous to the government making cars and giving them to GM so everyone could have a car. If GM got them by the ton and for very little money of course they would find a way to move them . This is essentially what the Banks did with the free money. In addition to the Federal Reserve System you had Fanny and Freddie which bought and guaranteed many of the mortgages so no one had to worry about them failing. Then you had CRA, FHA, Federal Home Loan Bank Board( 3% down payment loans) and several others that were designed to get everybody in their own home.

When the states tried to move against predatory lending by national banks they were blocked by the bank's federal regulator, the office of the comptroller of the currency, That empowered money lenders say Lynn Turner.

Just as significantly you had very badly conceived accounting rules that hid the problems from everyone until it was too late. Accounting rules are supposed to do the opposite, not move billions in potential liabilities off the balance sheet onto tiny footnote on the bottom of a page as happened at Citibank, or onto on sentence at the end of a 10-Q report as happened at AIG, or as generally happened with SIVs (structured investment vehicles). Then you had gov't rules from the last crisis, the Enron Crisis, the created mark-to- market accounting rules for this crisis that many believe greatly exacerbated this crisis.

Then you had the problem with the government backed ratings agencies that simply failed to rate the mortgage backed and related securities, properly. Sorry, it had little to do with Bush, but had everything to do with inane attempts by the liberal to regulate the free market!


Warren Buffett: "There are significant limits to what regulation can accomplish. As a dramatic illustration, take two of the biggest accounting disasters in the past ten years: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. We're talking billions and billions of dollars of misstatements at both places".

Now, these are two incredibly important institutions. I mean, they accounted for over 40% of the mortgage flow a few years back. Right now I think they're up to 70%. They're quasi-governmental in nature. So the government set up an organization called OFHEO. I'm not sure what all the letters stand for. [Note to Warren: They stand for Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight.] But if you go to OFHEO's website, you'll find that its purpose was to just watch over these two companies. OFHEO had 200 employees. Their job was simply to look at two companies and say, "Are these guys behaving like they're supposed to?" And of course what happened were two of the greatest accounting misstatements in history while these 200 people had their jobs. It's incredible. I mean, two for two!

“Whatever regulatory changes are made, they will pale in comparison to the change already evident in today’s markets,” he said. “Those markets for an indefinite future will be far more restrained than would any currently contemplated new regulatory regime.”-Alan Greenspan

Courtesy A. Smith:FDR created Fannie.
LBJ Privatized Fannie - creating an "enron" like environment:
Greg Mankiw's Blog: Thanks, LBJ

Carter's Community Reinvestment Act - accelerated by Clinton - pushed risky loans:
Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clinton pushed Fannie into Subprime - the most critical mistake:
Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice

Even the NY Times figured this out: Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com

Bush and McCain attempted to reform Fannie on 17 occasions
Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times in 2008 Alone Only To Have Dems Ignored His Warnings :: Political News and commentaries :: Hyscience

The risky subprime loans fueled another layer of risk - derivatives
https://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/2947518

The LA Times reported on Clinton's "subprime" success
 
Moron. You are so partisan that you just won't accept the facts. Here:

For the Last Time, Fannie and Freddie Didn't Cause the Housing Crisis - David Min - The Atlantic

The Bush administration passed the legislature that lessened loan requirements in 2003- to Wall Street's urgings: American Dream Down Payment Act .
Wall Street

No banks were "FORCED" to lend to minorities due to the CRA. They did so because they were making BANK! Greed is 100% behind this crisis.

Fannie, Freddie, and the CRA are Not Responsible for the Financial Crisis - CBS News
 
The economy collapsed because American workers could no longer sustain their spending or service their debts.

Spin that any way you'd like, but that's the gist of it.
 
Moron. You are so partisan that you just won't accept the facts. Here:

For the Last Time, Fannie and Freddie Didn't Cause the Housing Crisis - David Min - The Atlantic

The Bush administration passed the legislature that lessened loan requirements in 2003- to Wall Street's urgings: American Dream Down Payment Act .
Wall Street

No banks were "FORCED" to lend to minorities due to the CRA. They did so because they were making BANK! Greed is 100% behind this crisis.

Fannie, Freddie, and the CRA are Not Responsible for the Financial Crisis - CBS News


are you saying the Federal Reserve policy was not to stimulate the economy through malinvestment in the housing market when
the great economists on both side disagree with you? Please answer the question or admit as a liberal you lack the IQ to do so!!


our great newspapers and economists on left and right agree it was liberal government that caused the current depression.

"First consider the once controversial view that the crisis was largely caused by the Fed's holding interest rates too low for too long after the 2001 recession. This view is now so widely held that the editorial pages of both the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal agree on its validity!"...John B. Taylor


" The Federal reserve having done so much to create the problems in which the economy is now mired, having mistakenly thought that even after the housing bubble burst the problems were contained, and having underestimated the severity of the crisis, now wants to make a contribution to preventing the economy from sinking into a Japanese Style malaise....... - "Joseph Stiglitz"( uber left economist)

You may not have heard of the Federal Reserve system but it exists to inflate and deflate the currency supply through the housing market. They inflated too much for too long. This caused what they call a housing bubble. While the bubble was inflating all the big banks and many insurance companies bought bubble mortgages thinking they were sound rather than merely purchased or made possible by newly printed funny money. When the bubble deflated they all lost money on the mortgages. It would be analogous to the government making cars and giving them to GM so everyone could have a car. If GM got them by the ton and for very little money of course they would find a way to move them . This is essentially what the Banks did with the free money. In addition to the Federal Reserve System you had Fanny and Freddie which bought and guaranteed many of the mortgages so no one had to worry about them failing. Then you had CRA, FHA, Federal Home Loan Bank Board( 3% down payment loans) and several others that were designed to get everybody in their own home.

When the states tried to move against predatory lending by national banks they were blocked by the bank's federal regulator, the office of the comptroller of the currency, That empowered money lenders say Lynn Turner.

Just as significantly you had very badly conceived accounting rules that hid the problems from everyone until it was too late. Accounting rules are supposed to do the opposite, not move billions in potential liabilities off the balance sheet onto tiny footnote on the bottom of a page as happened at Citibank, or onto on sentence at the end of a 10-Q report as happened at AIG, or as generally happened with SIVs (structured investment vehicles). Then you had gov't rules from the last crisis, the Enron Crisis, the created mark-to- market accounting rules for this crisis that many believe greatly exacerbated this crisis.

Then you had the problem with the government backed ratings agencies that simply failed to rate the mortgage backed and related securities, properly. Sorry, it had little to do with Bush, but had everything to do with inane attempts by the liberal to regulate the free market!


Warren Buffett: "There are significant limits to what regulation can accomplish. As a dramatic illustration, take two of the biggest accounting disasters in the past ten years: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. We're talking billions and billions of dollars of misstatements at both places".

Now, these are two incredibly important institutions. I mean, they accounted for over 40% of the mortgage flow a few years back. Right now I think they're up to 70%. They're quasi-governmental in nature. So the government set up an organization called OFHEO. I'm not sure what all the letters stand for. [Note to Warren: They stand for Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight.] But if you go to OFHEO's website, you'll find that its purpose was to just watch over these two companies. OFHEO had 200 employees. Their job was simply to look at two companies and say, "Are these guys behaving like they're supposed to?" And of course what happened were two of the greatest accounting misstatements in history while these 200 people had their jobs. It's incredible. I mean, two for two!

“Whatever regulatory changes are made, they will pale in comparison to the change already evident in today’s markets,” he said. “Those markets for an indefinite future will be far more restrained than would any currently contemplated new regulatory regime.”-Alan Greenspan

Courtesy A. Smith:FDR created Fannie.
LBJ Privatized Fannie - creating an "enron" like environment:
Greg Mankiw's Blog: Thanks, LBJ

Carter's Community Reinvestment Act - accelerated by Clinton - pushed risky loans:
Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clinton pushed Fannie into Subprime - the most critical mistake:
Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice

Even the NY Times figured this out: Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com

Bush and McCain attempted to reform Fannie on 17 occasions
Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times in 2008 Alone Only To Have Dems Ignored His Warnings :: Political News and commentaries :: Hyscience

The risky subprime loans fueled another layer of risk - derivatives
https://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/2947518

The LA Times reported on Clinton's "subprime" success
 
What do you consider to be the MAIN driving force behind the 2008 economic meltdown?

actually, it was the 2007/2008 economic meltdown. :eusa_shhh:

Financial crisis of 2007

The financial crisis of 2007–2008, also known as the Global financial Crisis and 2008 financial crisis, is considered by many economists to be the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s.[1][2] It resulted in the threat of total collapse of large financial institutions, the bailout of banks by national governments, and downturns in stock markets around the world. In many areas, the housing market also suffered, resulting in evictions, foreclosures and prolonged unemployment. The crisis played a significant role in the failure of key businesses, declines in consumer wealth estimated in trillions of US dollars, and a downturn in economic activity leading to the 2008–2012 global recession and contributing to the European sovereign-debt crisis.[3][4] The active phase of the crisis, which manifested as a liquidity crisis, can be dated from August 7, 2007 when BNP Paribas terminated withdrawals from three hedge funds citing "a complete evaporation of liquidity".[5]
 
Moron. You are so partisan that you just won't accept the facts. Here:

For the Last Time, Fannie and Freddie Didn't Cause the Housing Crisis - David Min - The Atlantic

The Bush administration passed the legislature that lessened loan requirements in 2003- to Wall Street's urgings: American Dream Down Payment Act .
Wall Street

No banks were "FORCED" to lend to minorities due to the CRA. They did so because they were making BANK! Greed is 100% behind this crisis.

Fannie, Freddie, and the CRA are Not Responsible for the Financial Crisis - CBS News


are you saying the Federal Reserve policy was not to stimulate the economy through malinvestment in the housing market when
the great economists on both side disagree with you? Please answer the question or admit as a liberal you lack the IQ to do so!!


our great newspapers and economists on left and right agree it was liberal government that caused the current depression.

"First consider the once controversial view that the crisis was largely caused by the Fed's holding interest rates too low for too long after the 2001 recession. This view is now so widely held that the editorial pages of both the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal agree on its validity!"...John B. Taylor


" The Federal reserve having done so much to create the problems in which the economy is now mired, having mistakenly thought that even after the housing bubble burst the problems were contained, and having underestimated the severity of the crisis, now wants to make a contribution to preventing the economy from sinking into a Japanese Style malaise....... - "Joseph Stiglitz"( uber left economist)

You may not have heard of the Federal Reserve system but it exists to inflate and deflate the currency supply through the housing market. They inflated too much for too long. This caused what they call a housing bubble. While the bubble was inflating all the big banks and many insurance companies bought bubble mortgages thinking they were sound rather than merely purchased or made possible by newly printed funny money. When the bubble deflated they all lost money on the mortgages. It would be analogous to the government making cars and giving them to GM so everyone could have a car. If GM got them by the ton and for very little money of course they would find a way to move them . This is essentially what the Banks did with the free money. In addition to the Federal Reserve System you had Fanny and Freddie which bought and guaranteed many of the mortgages so no one had to worry about them failing. Then you had CRA, FHA, Federal Home Loan Bank Board( 3% down payment loans) and several others that were designed to get everybody in their own home.

When the states tried to move against predatory lending by national banks they were blocked by the bank's federal regulator, the office of the comptroller of the currency, That empowered money lenders say Lynn Turner.

Just as significantly you had very badly conceived accounting rules that hid the problems from everyone until it was too late. Accounting rules are supposed to do the opposite, not move billions in potential liabilities off the balance sheet onto tiny footnote on the bottom of a page as happened at Citibank, or onto on sentence at the end of a 10-Q report as happened at AIG, or as generally happened with SIVs (structured investment vehicles). Then you had gov't rules from the last crisis, the Enron Crisis, the created mark-to- market accounting rules for this crisis that many believe greatly exacerbated this crisis.

Then you had the problem with the government backed ratings agencies that simply failed to rate the mortgage backed and related securities, properly. Sorry, it had little to do with Bush, but had everything to do with inane attempts by the liberal to regulate the free market!


Warren Buffett: "There are significant limits to what regulation can accomplish. As a dramatic illustration, take two of the biggest accounting disasters in the past ten years: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. We're talking billions and billions of dollars of misstatements at both places".

Now, these are two incredibly important institutions. I mean, they accounted for over 40% of the mortgage flow a few years back. Right now I think they're up to 70%. They're quasi-governmental in nature. So the government set up an organization called OFHEO. I'm not sure what all the letters stand for. [Note to Warren: They stand for Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight.] But if you go to OFHEO's website, you'll find that its purpose was to just watch over these two companies. OFHEO had 200 employees. Their job was simply to look at two companies and say, "Are these guys behaving like they're supposed to?" And of course what happened were two of the greatest accounting misstatements in history while these 200 people had their jobs. It's incredible. I mean, two for two!

“Whatever regulatory changes are made, they will pale in comparison to the change already evident in today’s markets,” he said. “Those markets for an indefinite future will be far more restrained than would any currently contemplated new regulatory regime.”-Alan Greenspan

Courtesy A. Smith:FDR created Fannie.
LBJ Privatized Fannie - creating an "enron" like environment:
Greg Mankiw's Blog: Thanks, LBJ

Carter's Community Reinvestment Act - accelerated by Clinton - pushed risky loans:
Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clinton pushed Fannie into Subprime - the most critical mistake:
Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice

Even the NY Times figured this out: Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com

Bush and McCain attempted to reform Fannie on 17 occasions
Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times in 2008 Alone Only To Have Dems Ignored His Warnings :: Political News and commentaries :: Hyscience

The risky subprime loans fueled another layer of risk - derivatives
https://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/2947518

The LA Times reported on Clinton's "subprime" success


Lying through omission = propaganda
 
Then you had the problem with the government backed ratings agencies that simply failed to rate the mortgage backed and related securities, properly. Sorry, it had little to do with Bush, but had everything to do with inane attempts by the liberal to regulate the free market!

Seriously? That is the most ASININE thing I have ever heard. There wasn't ENOUGH regulation, thanks to the repeal of Glass-Steagall. The republicans had full control of congress for 6 years, yet you want to blame the CRA, which was absolutely not "forcing" banks to loan and F&F, which I have already debunked for you. You want to know what I really think? I think the private sector knew what would happen but didn't care, as they knew that we, the taxpayers would take the fall. Not only that, but I think they knew the collapse would drive down wages due to massive lay-offs. I think they created and let the crisis happen intentionally to kill labor.

Bush was in office when all of this went down. The bubble broke in 2006.
 
Moron. You are so partisan that you just won't accept the facts. Here:

For the Last Time, Fannie and Freddie Didn't Cause the Housing Crisis - David Min - The Atlantic

The Bush administration passed the legislature that lessened loan requirements in 2003- to Wall Street's urgings: American Dream Down Payment Act .
Wall Street

No banks were "FORCED" to lend to minorities due to the CRA. They did so because they were making BANK! Greed is 100% behind this crisis.

Fannie, Freddie, and the CRA are Not Responsible for the Financial Crisis - CBS News


are you saying the Federal Reserve policy was not to stimulate the economy through malinvestment in the housing market when
the great economists on both side disagree with you? Please answer the question or admit as a liberal you lack the IQ to do so!!


our great newspapers and economists on left and right agree it was liberal government that caused the current depression.

"First consider the once controversial view that the crisis was largely caused by the Fed's holding interest rates too low for too long after the 2001 recession. This view is now so widely held that the editorial pages of both the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal agree on its validity!"...John B. Taylor


" The Federal reserve having done so much to create the problems in which the economy is now mired, having mistakenly thought that even after the housing bubble burst the problems were contained, and having underestimated the severity of the crisis, now wants to make a contribution to preventing the economy from sinking into a Japanese Style malaise....... - "Joseph Stiglitz"( uber left economist)

You may not have heard of the Federal Reserve system but it exists to inflate and deflate the currency supply through the housing market. They inflated too much for too long. This caused what they call a housing bubble. While the bubble was inflating all the big banks and many insurance companies bought bubble mortgages thinking they were sound rather than merely purchased or made possible by newly printed funny money. When the bubble deflated they all lost money on the mortgages. It would be analogous to the government making cars and giving them to GM so everyone could have a car. If GM got them by the ton and for very little money of course they would find a way to move them . This is essentially what the Banks did with the free money. In addition to the Federal Reserve System you had Fanny and Freddie which bought and guaranteed many of the mortgages so no one had to worry about them failing. Then you had CRA, FHA, Federal Home Loan Bank Board( 3% down payment loans) and several others that were designed to get everybody in their own home.

When the states tried to move against predatory lending by national banks they were blocked by the bank's federal regulator, the office of the comptroller of the currency, That empowered money lenders say Lynn Turner.

Just as significantly you had very badly conceived accounting rules that hid the problems from everyone until it was too late. Accounting rules are supposed to do the opposite, not move billions in potential liabilities off the balance sheet onto tiny footnote on the bottom of a page as happened at Citibank, or onto on sentence at the end of a 10-Q report as happened at AIG, or as generally happened with SIVs (structured investment vehicles). Then you had gov't rules from the last crisis, the Enron Crisis, the created mark-to- market accounting rules for this crisis that many believe greatly exacerbated this crisis.

Then you had the problem with the government backed ratings agencies that simply failed to rate the mortgage backed and related securities, properly. Sorry, it had little to do with Bush, but had everything to do with inane attempts by the liberal to regulate the free market!


Warren Buffett: "There are significant limits to what regulation can accomplish. As a dramatic illustration, take two of the biggest accounting disasters in the past ten years: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. We're talking billions and billions of dollars of misstatements at both places".

Now, these are two incredibly important institutions. I mean, they accounted for over 40% of the mortgage flow a few years back. Right now I think they're up to 70%. They're quasi-governmental in nature. So the government set up an organization called OFHEO. I'm not sure what all the letters stand for. [Note to Warren: They stand for Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight.] But if you go to OFHEO's website, you'll find that its purpose was to just watch over these two companies. OFHEO had 200 employees. Their job was simply to look at two companies and say, "Are these guys behaving like they're supposed to?" And of course what happened were two of the greatest accounting misstatements in history while these 200 people had their jobs. It's incredible. I mean, two for two!

“Whatever regulatory changes are made, they will pale in comparison to the change already evident in today’s markets,” he said. “Those markets for an indefinite future will be far more restrained than would any currently contemplated new regulatory regime.”-Alan Greenspan

Courtesy A. Smith:FDR created Fannie.
LBJ Privatized Fannie - creating an "enron" like environment:
Greg Mankiw's Blog: Thanks, LBJ

Carter's Community Reinvestment Act - accelerated by Clinton - pushed risky loans:
Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clinton pushed Fannie into Subprime - the most critical mistake:
Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice

Even the NY Times figured this out: Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com

Bush and McCain attempted to reform Fannie on 17 occasions
Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times in 2008 Alone Only To Have Dems Ignored His Warnings :: Political News and commentaries :: Hyscience

The risky subprime loans fueled another layer of risk - derivatives
https://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/2947518

The LA Times reported on Clinton's "subprime" success


Lying through omission = propaganda

Are you implying CRA was a very small player in the Housing Crisis because CRA didn't apply to traditional mortgage loaners (banks; etc) that made up a huge majority of the loans?
Did you mean when Bush and McCain pushed reforming Fannie Mae 17 times in 2008 which is after the homes started losing their value? (It started in 2006) I could have sworn that having almost everyone in their own home was in the 2004 GOP Platform!
Well look at the chart below, look at the peak of home ownership, yep it was the Dems alright!
In real terms EB, you are right on some things, particularly pointing the finger at the Fed in a different post of yours. but for anyone to solely point the finger at the Dems or the GOP only is denying real life.
 

Attachments

  • $untitled.jpg
    $untitled.jpg
    17.6 KB · Views: 62
Last edited:
are you saying the Federal Reserve policy was not to stimulate the economy through malinvestment in the housing market when
the great economists on both side disagree with you? Please answer the question or admit as a liberal you lack the IQ to do so!!


our great newspapers and economists on left and right agree it was liberal government that caused the current depression.

"First consider the once controversial view that the crisis was largely caused by the Fed's holding interest rates too low for too long after the 2001 recession. This view is now so widely held that the editorial pages of both the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal agree on its validity!"...John B. Taylor


" The Federal reserve having done so much to create the problems in which the economy is now mired, having mistakenly thought that even after the housing bubble burst the problems were contained, and having underestimated the severity of the crisis, now wants to make a contribution to preventing the economy from sinking into a Japanese Style malaise....... - "Joseph Stiglitz"( uber left economist)

You may not have heard of the Federal Reserve system but it exists to inflate and deflate the currency supply through the housing market. They inflated too much for too long. This caused what they call a housing bubble. While the bubble was inflating all the big banks and many insurance companies bought bubble mortgages thinking they were sound rather than merely purchased or made possible by newly printed funny money. When the bubble deflated they all lost money on the mortgages. It would be analogous to the government making cars and giving them to GM so everyone could have a car. If GM got them by the ton and for very little money of course they would find a way to move them . This is essentially what the Banks did with the free money. In addition to the Federal Reserve System you had Fanny and Freddie which bought and guaranteed many of the mortgages so no one had to worry about them failing. Then you had CRA, FHA, Federal Home Loan Bank Board( 3% down payment loans) and several others that were designed to get everybody in their own home.

When the states tried to move against predatory lending by national banks they were blocked by the bank's federal regulator, the office of the comptroller of the currency, That empowered money lenders say Lynn Turner.

Just as significantly you had very badly conceived accounting rules that hid the problems from everyone until it was too late. Accounting rules are supposed to do the opposite, not move billions in potential liabilities off the balance sheet onto tiny footnote on the bottom of a page as happened at Citibank, or onto on sentence at the end of a 10-Q report as happened at AIG, or as generally happened with SIVs (structured investment vehicles). Then you had gov't rules from the last crisis, the Enron Crisis, the created mark-to- market accounting rules for this crisis that many believe greatly exacerbated this crisis.

Then you had the problem with the government backed ratings agencies that simply failed to rate the mortgage backed and related securities, properly. Sorry, it had little to do with Bush, but had everything to do with inane attempts by the liberal to regulate the free market!


Warren Buffett: "There are significant limits to what regulation can accomplish. As a dramatic illustration, take two of the biggest accounting disasters in the past ten years: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. We're talking billions and billions of dollars of misstatements at both places".

Now, these are two incredibly important institutions. I mean, they accounted for over 40% of the mortgage flow a few years back. Right now I think they're up to 70%. They're quasi-governmental in nature. So the government set up an organization called OFHEO. I'm not sure what all the letters stand for. [Note to Warren: They stand for Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight.] But if you go to OFHEO's website, you'll find that its purpose was to just watch over these two companies. OFHEO had 200 employees. Their job was simply to look at two companies and say, "Are these guys behaving like they're supposed to?" And of course what happened were two of the greatest accounting misstatements in history while these 200 people had their jobs. It's incredible. I mean, two for two!

“Whatever regulatory changes are made, they will pale in comparison to the change already evident in today’s markets,” he said. “Those markets for an indefinite future will be far more restrained than would any currently contemplated new regulatory regime.”-Alan Greenspan

Courtesy A. Smith:FDR created Fannie.
LBJ Privatized Fannie - creating an "enron" like environment:
Greg Mankiw's Blog: Thanks, LBJ

Carter's Community Reinvestment Act - accelerated by Clinton - pushed risky loans:
Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clinton pushed Fannie into Subprime - the most critical mistake:
Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice

Even the NY Times figured this out: Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com

Bush and McCain attempted to reform Fannie on 17 occasions
Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times in 2008 Alone Only To Have Dems Ignored His Warnings :: Political News and commentaries :: Hyscience

The risky subprime loans fueled another layer of risk - derivatives
https://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/2947518

The LA Times reported on Clinton's "subprime" success


Lying through omission = propaganda

Are you implying CRA was a very small player in the Housing Crisis because CRA didn't apply to traditional mortgage loaners (banks; etc) that made up a huge majority of the loans?
Did you mean when Bush and McCain pushed reforming Fannie Mae 17 times in 2008 which is after the homes started losing their value? (It started in 2006) I could have sworn that having almost everyone in their own home was in the 2004 GOP Platform!
Well look at the chart below, look at the peak of home ownership, yep it was the Dems alright!
In real terms EB, you are right on some things, particularly pointing the finger at the Fed in a different post of yours. but for anyone to solely point the finger at the Dems or the GOP only is denying real life.


In 2009 Frank responded to what he called "wholly inaccurate efforts by Republicans to blame Democrats, and [me] in particular" for the subprime mortgage crisis, which is linked to the financial crisis of 2007–2009.[53] He outlined his efforts to reform these institutions and add regulations, but met resistance from Republicans, with the main exception being a bill with Republican Mike Oxley that died because of opposition from President Bush.[53] The 2005 bill included Frank objectives, which were to impose tighter regulation of Fannie and Freddie and new funds for rental housing. Frank and Mike Oxley achieved broad bipartisan support for the bill in the Financial Services Committee, and it passed the House. But the Senate never voted on the measure, in part because President Bush was likely to veto it. "If it had passed, that would have been one of the ways we could have reined in the bowling ball going downhill called housing," Oxley told Frank. In an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal, Lawrence B. Lindsey, a former economic adviser to President George W. Bush, wrote that Frank "is the only politician I know who has argued that we needed tighter rules that intentionally produce fewer homeowners and more renters."[8] Once control shifted to the Democrats, Frank was able to help guide both the Federal Housing Reform Act (H.R. 1427) and the Mortgage Reform and Anti-Predatory Lending Act (H.R. 3915) to passage in 2007.[53] Frank also said that the Republican-led Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act of 1999, which repealed part of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 and removed the wall between commercial and investment banks, contributed to the financial meltdown.[53] Frank further stated that "during twelve years of Republican rule no reform was adopted regarding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In 2007, a few months after I became the Chairman, the House passed a strong reform bill; we sought to get the [Bush] administration's approval to include it in the economic stimulus legislation in January 2008; and finally got it passed and onto President Bush's desk in July 2008. Moreover, "we were able to adopt it in nineteen months, and we could have done it much quicker if the [Bush] administration had cooperated."[54] - Barney Frank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

---

Mr. Frank noted, as he has repeatedly over the past two years, that Democrats had little ability to do much about questionable mortgage lending practices or the structure of Fannie and Freddie. That’s because Republicans controlled the House of Representatives from 1995 until 2006. Democrats took over the House in 2007 .

“I was late in recognizing the problem,” Mr. Frank said at a news conference Monday. “But it was when I was in the minority.”

-
In an interview Monday, former Rep. Mike Oxley, a Republican who chaired the financial services panel from 2001 through 2006, said that bill was a lost opportunity to overhaul Fannie and Freddie.

Oxley noted that Rep. Frank helped deliver Democratic votes in favor of it. If the bill had been signed into law in 2005, Mr. Oxley noted that there would have been two years — 2006 and 2007 — during which the regulator could have tightened control over Fannie and Freddie.

“The new regulator would have had a chance to do some good,” Oxley said. “Frankly, we could have avoided a lot of the problems that developed…if that law had been on the books.”

Mr. Frank also said he worked to crack down on dubious mortgage lending practices, enacting tough restrictions as part of last year’s Dodd-Frank financial overhaul.

“The kinds of subprime loans that (caused) a problem for people are now illegal,” Mr. Frank said.

Barney Frank: Don't Blame Me for Fannie, Freddie Problems - Developments - WSJ
 
Are you implying CRA was a very small player in the Housing Crisis because CRA didn't apply to traditional mortgage loaners (banks; etc) that made up a huge majority of the loans?

too stupid and perfectly liberal as I barely mentioned CRA. CRA was ,though, significant but just one of many many liberal programs( Fan/Fred/ Federal Reserve being most important) designed to subvert the free market and get people into homes the Republican free market said they could not afford!! The liberal housing crisis and current depression was the result. A liberal will lack the IQ to understand.
 
Last edited:
Did you mean when Bush and McCain pushed reforming Fannie Mae 17 times in 2008 which is after the homes started losing their value? (It started in 2006) I could have sworn that having almost everyone in their own home was in the 2004 GOP Platform!


too stupid and perfectly liberal!!. Its never in the Jeffersonian/libertarian/Friedman/ Buckley/Reagan/Tea Party wing of the Republican Party to subvert the free market!!

See why we are positive a liberal will be slow??
 
but for anyone to solely point the finger at the Dems or the GOP only is denying real life.


too perfectly stupid!! If you have half a brain you point the finger and liberalism or free market subversion wheteher it exist in the GOP or Democrat party!!

I know thats way way over your head!!!
 
but for anyone to solely point the finger at the Dems or the GOP only is denying real life.


too perfectly stupid!! If you have half a brain you point the finger and liberalism or free market subversion wheteher it exist in the GOP or Democrat party!!

I know thats way way over your head!!!

It may be over the head of most English speaking people.

1) you said Democrats and GOP are responsible

2) i said, in effect, of course they are both responsible because they both overlap independents who decide elections

3) therefore blame must be placed on a philosophy; in this case the liberal philosophy, which resides mostly in the Democrat party, because it alone brought about the liberal socialist interference, with the free market, that caused the current depression.

ABCs still over your head???
 
GSE's can cause a financial crisis by themselves & have done so in the past.

The House That George Romney Built

Richard M. Nixon came to office in 1969, so it was left to a Republican administration, and Mr. Romney, to preside over the first mortgage-backed security sale in 1970, which they enthusiastically embraced. “This event,” Mr. Romney said, “marks a revolutionary step forward in our efforts to increase the funds available for mortgage financing.” But in an eerie prefiguring of the 2000s, the subprime lending program soon fell apart as predatory lenders and unscrupulous house flippers defrauded first-time buyers. The government found itself insuring mortgages on houses that could never be resold. After first denying the problems, Mr. Romney was ultimately forced to freeze the program in 1971. Yet even as the lending program ended, the mortgage-backed security sector blossomed, at least for higher-quality, middle-class homes. Securitization worked as an instrument to connect local demand and global capital.

Bypassing traditional bank deposits allowed money to come from almost anywhere: small-town banks, union pensions and European investors could all buy American mortgages. Lending on houses, at least for middle-class housing, became easier than ever before.

And that was the problem. While Mr. Romney may have stopped the fraud, he didn’t address the flip side of the urban crisis: the millions invested in mortgages was money not invested in business.

Small-business loans, however, still relied on those dwindling deposits and could not be securitized. Big corporations and small homeowners could rely on the surging global capital markets, while small business found itself crowded out.
 

Forum List

Back
Top