what can you teach me about war?

[catatomic]

Dear Board,

After going in the global warming forum I promised I would talk about things like Terrorism and nukes. However I feel that I don't really know much.

Basically I used to think war was fine and it didn't count as killing. One day I read the lyrics to "In A World Gone Mad" by the Beastie Boys. The lyrics may be seen at

BEASTIE BOYS LYRICS - In A World Gone Mad

I put off posting about war because I believe this message board is a very strong proponent of war. But I don't want to kill a single person. However I will say that every once in a while I see what looks like a justification for going to war or killing. I try not to be emotional. Help me.

 

[deltex1]

War is an instrument of national policy, employed by rational nations when all other instruments fail to solve a particular problem. Irrational nations use war as a primary instrument of national policy...and get their ass kicked for it.

 

[Iceweasel]

If you changed your mind listening to music you weren't very well informed. What's to teach, sometimes you gotta do it, it stopped Germany and Japan and they are much different countries today.

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Keep your powder dry.

 

[shadow355]

War is complicated business.

Identifying objectives and goals. Trying to ascertain what your adversary / or enemy will do.

What is the enemys goals and objectives. What move will they make next and how will they do it.

Identifying the enemy Command and Control, what their resources and support is. What is the enemys morale and what is the shape of and maintenance of the enemys / adversary's equipment.

Using "Black Information" ( essentially false information ) to check for leaks inside your own party. Women, as I have described in my first book thati have wrote - are notorious and mostly used = for gaining the trust of not only men......but other women. ( Watch the movie "Run Away Jury" ; the blonde female at the beginning with John Cusack and being covertly videoed in the store - Gene Hackman tells her "Good Job" in the briefing room afterwards. ) Women - Drugs - Sex - Money - Power ( leadership / political appointments ) have been used for centuries upon centuries for intelligence collection, to betray and bribe the opposition, or to cause embarrassment or for use in "Black Mail".

Using manpower and resources adequately and not abusing or misusing assets. One has to be careful. Why send in a Company of troops when two platoons will get the job done.

***** INTELLIGENCE Acquisition *****. ## This is extremely, extremely important ! ##
Gaining knowledge on the enemy, what their strengths and weaknesses are - what their routine is - who they see and what or whom they avoid. What tactics do they use, how much and what resources do they use. Where do they go and are their any patterns that the opposition has. Do they say one thing, then do another?

Movement. False movements; or be tracked going in one direction and then changing course to deceive the enemy. In the board room - on the battle field - in the paintball game. Changing directions after being seen going one way.....confuses the enemy and makes it harder to track you.

False tracks. In the office with a paper trail, in war...leaving a false set of foot prints leading one direction while you go another - or dropping paper and food wrapping making it look like you crossed a stream. Leave false tracks for the bad guys ----->therefore making them use manpower and time that they do not have.

Trust is hard to get and takes along time to obtain - but it can be easily destroyed within minutes. Being trustworthy - being reliable and being forward and upfront in your reports are valuable. Some people would sell their souls for a large popcorn and fountain soda. Would you? Some people see spying / espionage and selling out their team for the excitement of spying, or some tangible benefit. DO NOT BE ONE of those people. Spys get caught - and they face the gallows or the firing squad. Spys most usually - 97% of the time get caught and immediately shot - or put under surveillance. Be the person that gets a pat on the back - not someone who get a bullet to the chest. Loyalty is rewarding.

Move of a night, or in bad weather if at all possible. Never of a day. Daylight makes it easier to be observed, and exactly what you have and do not have can be identified, along with numbers of personnel and other specifics.

Smoke screens. In the office - on the football field - in the verbal confrontations ; or in war itself. Use smoke screens whenever possible. Prevent the enemy from seeing exactly what you have, to cover your movements, or what number of assets you have...are moving. US Marines do this when taking a beachhead - the US Army does it when moving in open spaces.

Move one direction, then after a few minutes you can turn 90 degrees left or right and go that direction. Your set course - time and distance will not be able to be calculated. The enemy will not be able to determine your real destination - OR SET UP and hit you in an ambush. That is a good thing. In war - the office - the bargaining table.......change directions. Have more than one option and one route to take, les you travel over many land mines.

Make the enemy think they are doing good. Nothing better than making the enemy believe their morale is good - then they realize that for weeks or months all of their efforts have been for nothing. The ground troops will be devastated and begin to question - and / or doubt their leadership. Morale - damaging morale - making the enemy use substandard equipment / or equipment they have doubt in......is one way to gain ground. Google ----> Gulf War - Iraqis surrender, and watch the video of hundreds of Iraqis being marched by troops and those hungry and starved troops walking with white flags in their hands. Hundreds and thousands......surrendering.

Tactics vary in combat. Just because someone is in charge, does not mean they are - Competent, knowledgeable, a leader, or have the respect of their troops. Do some research on your adversary. What do they know? Can they handle a fight? Do they have the respect of the subordinates. In the movie "Siege of Fire Base Gloria ; the Vietnamese general was looking through binoculars watching, R.Lee Ermey. The Vietnamese General told his subordinate officer of R.Lee Ermey.... that "He looks professional. This could be hard." It was hard - R.Lee Ermey and the Marines kicked the Vietnamese back to the river......because R.Lee Ermey predicted the enemys movements and where they would shoot from. He knew what the enemy was going to do - and where they were going ; and this made him victorious.

Take the route that the enemy does not expect you to take - or believes you can succeed in. Make time and distances that seem like world records. No one will believe you made it that far. You cannot be "pinned down" or "pegged". Speed......properly used = is one counter ambush and counter surveillance technique.

Use the sun - the moon - daylight and darkness to your advantage. Use time and rest.....to your advantage. Make the enemy scratch their heads. Deny the enemy intelligence, or feed them partially true intelligence and partially false intelligence to throw them off. "Wax On - Wax Off" ( "From Paris with Love ).*** Keep the enemy off balance.*** They get really pissed when they go chasing their tails with false information and research they spent man hours and money on. What is true - and what is false.

The President receives his "Daily Intelligence Brief". He gets his daily intelligence information, and any places in the world that may be potential "hotspots". Potential hotspots receive Special Operation Troops, so they can watch the area, perform surveillance, keep track of senior personnel, and observe its politics and military ; so if the US Military Deploys there.....intelligence will already have been in place for about 6 months. If you see a potential "Hotspot" - in war, or even in life......Keep an eye on it. The intelligence you gain will be irreplaceable.

President's Daily Brief - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Freeing the President’s Daily Brief

War is deception. It is dirty and bloody. Their are risks and dangers. Security can never be downplayed or underestimated.......NEVER. It is about long hours - long days and even nights. It is about a winning command. It is about proper use of resources and having the proper intelligence. War is about winning over the bad guys.


Shadow 355 ( Prior service - US Army - "Gulf War" veteran ; 1st Cav - 2nd Infantry - 18th Airborne )

 

[shadow355]

War is an instrument of national policy....

National Policy.

Resources = Gold - oil - Silver - Coal

Real Estate in general.

Religion.


These are just a few reasons to fire a shot in anger.


Shadow 355

 

[IsaacNewton]

Dear Board,

After going in the global warming forum I promised I would talk about things like Terrorism and nukes. However I feel that I don't really know much.

Basically I used to think war was fine and it didn't count as killing. One day I read the lyrics to "In A World Gone Mad" by the Beastie Boys. The lyrics may be seen at

BEASTIE BOYS LYRICS - In A World Gone Mad

I put off posting about war because I believe this message board is a very strong proponent of war. But I don't want to kill a single person. However I will say that every once in a while I see what looks like a justification for going to war or killing. I try not to be emotional. Help me.

First off how can anyone think war 'doesn't count as killing'. THAT is what it is! Every single person killed in a war wants to live their life as much as someone that died of pneumonia. LIFE IS LIFE.

And though war is the most abhorrent thing by orders of magnitude than anything else that humans do, sometimes it is necessary. Defeating Japan and Germany during World War 2 were absolute necessities for the whole of humanity to proceed forward in light rather than go back to the Dark Ages. And neither of those regimes gave up, they had to be completely ground into dust before it was over.

Consider for a minute what the world would be like today if the mentality that thought it ok to march 6 million people, 2500 at a time, into enclosed concrete rooms and murder them, men, women, and children, while they screamed, and then burn the bodies so there would be no evidence of it happening, had won the war. And if they hadn't been stopped the 6 million number would likely have doubled or tripled at least.

Some wars HAVE to be fought and won.

Then there are the 'other' wars. Where these was no threat and no real reason to go to war. After 9/11 we had every reason to go to Afghanistan and obliterate the Taliban. But Iraq? There was no reason, the reason was created and manipulated by men that wanted to invade that country.

If nothing else study up on when it is appropriate to go to war and when it becomes one or a few men simply wielding power over other people at their whim. The second is why many democracies fail so you need to know.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Let's give the down and dirty answer.

War is just a tool in the Diplomatic tool chest.

To win a war, it's not about killing. It's about removing the enemies will to fight.

Those two things are what make war. Not the killing involved. Killing is just part of it but in the end, you must remove your enemies will to fight. Just knowing that you will go to war may affect the Diplomatic talks. When talking is done, war may have to be done until the other side is willing to talk again and be more receptive.

 

[catatomic]

I thanked you all, though I don't see why Shadow355 gave out so much information. I guess there's a lot more covert information than that. I have not learned enough from your posts to post back yet, but I feel good about all of you.

 

[eagle1462010]

War is when all reasonable diplomatic options lead to no results.

War is to kill and/or break the will of the enemy.

 

[shadow355]

.........though I don't see why Shadow355 gave outso much information......

Quote = catatomic

"what can you teach me about war?"

You asked so I commented.

So......I taught. Actually I just gave a small sermon. It would take weeks for me to teach you everthing.


========

PVC pipe in the ground. At the base of the PVC pipe is pressed wood with a nail in the center.

( Not specific ) "X" amount of inches above the nail is a toothpick crossways through the PVC pipe with a shotgun shell resting on top of it.

Shotgun shell sticks above ground, under some leaves "X" inches.

Step on shotgun shell - toothpick breaks - Shotgun shell falls onto the nail at the base of the PVC pipe. Shotgun shell goes off ; leg of person is shattered. ( Plan not entirely specific - there are a couple of more tricks )

------------------------------

A metal ammo can of gunpowder with ball bearings - nails and ect ; placed under the seat of a vehicle. Vehicle is started - ammo can explodes. ( Not entirely plan specific )

-------------------------------

Mouse trap and shotgun shells in trees. Trip wire to the mouse trap. Trip wire on path or trail is tripped = shotgun shell(s) go off. GREAT anti-personnel. ( not entirely plan specific )

-----------------------------

Brillo pads make great explosive detonators.

------------------------------


I could teach.......all day !

You can accomplish alot of things.......is spy satellites are not watching you.


Shadow 355

 

[whitehall]

The United States was attacked without provocation on December 7, 1941 and after about four years and incredible casualties the greatest Country in the world prevailed and brought the AXIS and the Nazi regime to their knees. Was it worth it? Was the defense of international freedom and the security of the American way of life worth the sacrifice?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The United States was attacked without provocation on December 7, 1941 and after about four years and incredible casualties the greatest Country in the world prevailed and brought the AXIS and the Nazi regime to their knees. Was it worth it? Was the defense of international freedom and the security of the American way of life worth the sacrifice?

The Japanese attacked china and a few other places in the Orient. The US was the main supplier of steel, iron, food and fuel to Japan. We started shutting off the taps. The Japanese needed those other places in Asia for their resources that they depended on the US for. The Japanese was the best customer the US had for scrap iron until December 8th, 1941. The Tap started to be shut down in 1937 when Japan invaded China. There was provocation on both sides. Japan needed to cripple the USN in the Pacific in order to accomplish their expansion. They did exactly that.

'Japan had a choice or series of choices but the US didn't really have any other choice after December 7th, 1941.

To say the Japanese attacked without provocation just isn't true. FDR had to make people think that in order to get the whole country behind the new war effort.

 

[regent]

The question was: should the US supply the materials for the Japanese military to kill Chinese civilians and take over China?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The question was: should the US supply the materials for the Japanese military to kill Chinese civilians and take over China?

No. And if it were allowed, Japan would have never attacked Pearl at that time. But they would have later on when they had their own sources of material. Japan is a natural resource pit. Even today, they require other countries for their natural resources. What they bring to the table is workers. Same went before and during WWII. The needed control of China, the Dutch Indies and more in order to keep their war machine going. Since the US shut them off, they could not continue their expansion without the other areas in their total control.

 

[Iceweasel]

The United States was attacked without provocation on December 7, 1941 and after about four years and incredible casualties the greatest Country in the world prevailed and brought the AXIS and the Nazi regime to their knees. Was it worth it? Was the defense of international freedom and the security of the American way of life worth the sacrifice?

The Japanese attacked china and a few other places in the Orient. The US was the main supplier of steel, iron, food and fuel to Japan. We started shutting off the taps. The Japanese needed those other places in Asia for their resources that they depended on the US for. The Japanese was the best customer the US had for scrap iron until December 8th, 1941. The Tap started to be shut down in 1937 when Japan invaded China. There was provocation on both sides. Japan needed to cripple the USN in the Pacific in order to accomplish their expansion. They did exactly that.

'Japan had a choice or series of choices but the US didn't really have any other choice after December 7th, 1941.

To say the Japanese attacked without provocation just isn't true. FDR had to make people think that in order to get the whole country behind the new war effort.

Wow. The tap was closed because of their aggressive behavior in attacking China, which they did rather brutally. To say they had no choice in the matter is ignorant beyond comprehension. You act like a thief that had no choice than to shoot you because you didn't hand over your wallet.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The United States was attacked without provocation on December 7, 1941 and after about four years and incredible casualties the greatest Country in the world prevailed and brought the AXIS and the Nazi regime to their knees. Was it worth it? Was the defense of international freedom and the security of the American way of life worth the sacrifice?

The Japanese attacked china and a few other places in the Orient. The US was the main supplier of steel, iron, food and fuel to Japan. We started shutting off the taps. The Japanese needed those other places in Asia for their resources that they depended on the US for. The Japanese was the best customer the US had for scrap iron until December 8th, 1941. The Tap started to be shut down in 1937 when Japan invaded China. There was provocation on both sides. Japan needed to cripple the USN in the Pacific in order to accomplish their expansion. They did exactly that.

'Japan had a choice or series of choices but the US didn't really have any other choice after December 7th, 1941.

To say the Japanese attacked without provocation just isn't true. FDR had to make people think that in order to get the whole country behind the new war effort.

Wow. The tap was closed because of their aggressive behavior in attacking China, which they did rather brutally. To say they had no choice in the matter is ignorant beyond comprehension. You act like a thief that had no choice than to shoot you because you didn't hand over your wallet.

You sound like a friggin troll. It matters little if I agree with their actions or our. It's about history that neither of us can change. It all depends what side your view is on. The US thought it was right by their treatment of the Cherokee, the Germans thought they were right with the invasion of Poland, How about the treatment by the British in India, or the French in North Africa. Each time, the offending countries citizen agreed with it's action. Does it make it right? No. Does it make it wrong? Depends on who you are asking.

 

[Iceweasel]

The United States was attacked without provocation on December 7, 1941 and after about four years and incredible casualties the greatest Country in the world prevailed and brought the AXIS and the Nazi regime to their knees. Was it worth it? Was the defense of international freedom and the security of the American way of life worth the sacrifice?

The Japanese attacked china and a few other places in the Orient. The US was the main supplier of steel, iron, food and fuel to Japan. We started shutting off the taps. The Japanese needed those other places in Asia for their resources that they depended on the US for. The Japanese was the best customer the US had for scrap iron until December 8th, 1941. The Tap started to be shut down in 1937 when Japan invaded China. There was provocation on both sides. Japan needed to cripple the USN in the Pacific in order to accomplish their expansion. They did exactly that.

'Japan had a choice or series of choices but the US didn't really have any other choice after December 7th, 1941.

To say the Japanese attacked without provocation just isn't true. FDR had to make people think that in order to get the whole country behind the new war effort.

Wow. The tap was closed because of their aggressive behavior in attacking China, which they did rather brutally. To say they had no choice in the matter is ignorant beyond comprehension. You act like a thief that had no choice than to shoot you because you didn't hand over your wallet.

You sound like a friggin troll. It matters little if I agree with their actions or our. It's about history that neither of us can change. It all depends what side your view is on. The US thought it was right by their treatment of the Cherokee, the Germans thought they were right with the invasion of Poland, How about the treatment by the British in India, or the French in North Africa. Each time, the offending countries citizen agreed with it's action. Does it make it right? No. Does it make it wrong? Depends on who you are asking.

You're full of shit. The Japanese invaded China, brutally as I said. That was the cause of the embargo. For you to not know if it was right from wrong or who you ask is mindless moral relativism. I'm not going to let you obfuscate the point with every conflict know to man.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Well, OP, there you have it. What is war? Mostly it's population control, power, resources or you just think the other side is an animal. There are tons of reasons from all sides. BTW, I spent 20 years in the Military and make a damned poor cop. Most Military do. Not that we can't become a good cop, but it's two different worlds. What you are seeing is someone that probably never served (or just did one hitch) and thinks we should be beat up every bully in existence. There are types of reasons used by many to go to war. If you want the whole list, just look up the 7 deadly sins.

 

[catatomic]

Deltex – if it is rational to go to war to defend yourself it may also be rational to try to take over another country unjustly and be a dick.

Iceweasel – I researched the music a lot before changing my mind – they were just one of the first to say it. However things think different again now so I may want to rethink this.

Isaac Newton- Of course I don’t want to kill – there are some times when it doesn’t think that it counts as killing anyway – I would like advice on how to tell the difference but if it is all just killing perhaps then we shouldn’t kill. And how to survive? Motivate worldwide disdain for war and set up an international peacekeeping military like Interpol but with soldiers not police – Intermil.

But if that’s not practical – I may have no choice but to let people die because I am not creative enough so what should I do?

Daryl Hunt – I like your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Eagle1462010 – when is it fair to say that their lack of surrender led to their demise, and when is it fair to say that we just made them look bad and destroyed them?

By the way you all I am further conflicted by my Grandfather being a great WWII hero. I know he did it for his ancestors and predecessors. He also did it for freedom of religion, education, the right to work where and when you want, etc… I like the idea of fighting nonviolently for those things always but if enough people are smart enough perhaps a warring politician can never pull things over on us anymore. I mean it sucks to be in North Korea but perhaps it’s time, like that song says, that we fight more nonviolently, if our imagination is good enough.

I don’t know between China and Japan and America. I like to say all politics is subjective until your life is on the line.

Also I would say I think religious books are helpful if read correctly – perhaps violence should be censored out of them.

Some of my own suggestions are as follows:

1. Utilize religious books since they are generally produced wisely, but be careful not to avoid finding higher ground.
   
   
2. Promote disdain for war – many soldiers commit suicide and as sad as it is I think they go out happier this way.
   
   
3. Stop international war – if a person props up a government that goes to war, do they have blood on their hands?
   
   
4. Creative defenses can still make it rational to not fight. What if with each military maneuver we judge it on an individual is fighting to defend themselves against an individual basis – not trying to kill.
   
   
5. We shouldn’t be lazy with this fragile planet – come up with advanced technologies that make ourselves safer and not more in danger.
   
   Well, I’m sure there’s a lot I missed and left out and don’t know and am still asking and still want to know. Those are some ideas of mine. I will send it without double-checking my text.