What can we all agree on?

[eagle1462010]

To those who think that the federal government does not have the constitutional authority to provide a national healthcare program:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to... promote the general Welfare...do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

A clause that has been abused. Once the people realized they could get money from the Gov't they want more more more.

Problem is we can't afford our bills. We get loans for 85 BILLION A MONTH. This has LOWERED OUR STANDARD OF LIVING. Mainly through the DEBASEMENT OF OUR CURRENCY. The more we borrow the less our dollar's worth.

A private central bank issuing the public currency is a greater menace to the liberties of the people than a standing army." We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." Thomas Jefferson

Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare but only those specifically enumerated." Thomas Jefferson

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson

 

[Antares]

You haven't a fucking clue about the Constitution OR what the FF wanted.

We are here to tell people like to simply fuck off, no free ride Philly....we don't owe you shit.

Especially people like General Dynamics, Lockeed-Martin and Halliburton.

Too funny....then you should write Bammy and him to quit digitalizing 85 Bil a month and propping up the markets....I'm jus sayin....Prez Cracka has shown Bush to be a Piker when it comes to Corporate subsidies.

 

[Billo_Really]

Promote, not Provide. Big difference. Read your dictionary if you need clarification.

In the actual article section, it says "provide".

 

[Billo_Really]

Too funny....then you should write Bammy and him to quit digitalizing 85 Bil a month and propping up the markets....I'm jus sayin....Prez Cracka has shown Bush to be a Piker when it comes to Corporate subsidies.

WTF does "...and him to quit..." mean?

 

[blackhawk]

There is a difference between helping someone and supporting them I'm all for helping someone who is going through a rough patch get back on there feet but I'm not for supporting them indefinitely to me it's like letting someone who is down on their luck stay with you yes you might let them for awhile but your not going to let them stay forever.

 

[Antares]

Too funny....then you should write Bammy and him to quit digitalizing 85 Bil a month and propping up the markets....I'm jus sayin....Prez Cracka has shown Bush to be a Piker when it comes to Corporate subsidies.

WTF does "...and him to quit..." mean?

Too funny.

Just stop this QE shit, it is simply propping up the Corps

...and if you DON'T know that Bammy controls this you are dismissed.

 

[alan1]

Whatever our political preferences are, don't we all care about every American having healthcare and living a decent life? Perhaps the ACA isn't the best solution, but neither is refusing to help. Thoughts?

The US Constitution, Bill of Rights and Amendments never list healthcare as a right.
The ACA does nothing to make health care affordable, it is merely a mandate to have insurance and for the government to subsidize insurance.
If I am being forced (via taxes) to pay for health insurance for another person, that effectively makes me a slave to that person because the fruits of my labor are being denied of me and given to another.

You speak of a "decent living", should every person be provided clothing? Should every person be provided a house? What about in that house, should they be provided a comfortable bed and bedding, electricity, gas, cookware, dinnerware, etc?
Where do you draw the line for providing for others at your own personal expense?

They don't list that the government should have control over reproduction or whether or not you can marry whomever you please, either.

Indeed they don't, so lets get the federal government out of both.

How about the definition of "equal"? Or, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?

Those statements would be from The Declaration of Independence, not the US Constitution or Bill of Rights or Amendments.

Note: Luddly Neddite didn't answer any of the questions I laid out. I am nice though, and answered his. I won't hold hold my breath waiting for his answers because I am not prepared to die from lack of oxygen.

 

[eagle1462010]

An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others. Madison

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. Madison

There is not a more important and fundamental principle in legislation, than that the ways and means ought always to face the public engagements; that our appropriations should ever go hand in hand with our promises. To say that the United States should be answerable for twenty-five millions of dollars without knowing whether the ways and means can be provided, and without knowing whether those who are to succeed us will think with us on the subject, would be rash and unjustifiable. Sir, in my opinion, it would be hazarding the public faith in a manner contrary to every idea of prudence. Madison

comment

The Founding Fathers were VERY CLEAR ON THE ROLE OF GOV'T. They wanted it as small as possible, and the majority of the power to be with the States and as local as possible. They also stated that the Gov't role as defined. They never intended the Common Good clause to be abused as it has today and for decades.

To those who say the Constitution gives us the power because of the Common Good Clause have absolutely no understanding of the Framers of the Constitution.

 

[alan1]

Promote, not Provide. Big difference. Read your dictionary if you need clarification.

In the actual article section, it says "provide".

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Yeah, "provide for the common defence", "To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;" "To provide and maintain a Navy;", "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;" and "promote the general Welfare".

Read it here

 

[Vox]

Whatever our political preferences are, don't we all care about every American having healthcare and living a decent life? Perhaps the ACA isn't the best solution, but neither is refusing to help. Thoughts?

Bullshit.
obamacare is neither solution nor help.

it is selling the American taxpayer to the one-percenters

 

[Two Thumbs]

Whatever our political preferences are, don't we all care about every American having healthcare and living a decent life? Perhaps the ACA isn't the best solution, but neither is refusing to help. Thoughts?

political hacks shouldn't pretend to be doctors with MD at the end of their names.

It's an insult to the vast effort it takes to become one.

and fucking every citizen over b/c some people are to dumb or lazy to get hc is tyranny.

fucking shit pile.

 

[Billo_Really]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Yeah, "provide for the common defence", "To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;" "To provide and maintain a Navy;", "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;" and "promote the general Welfare".

Read it here

Here's the actual text....

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

Questions or comments?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Whatever our political preferences are, don't we all care about every American having healthcare and living a decent life? Perhaps the ACA isn't the best solution, but neither is refusing to help. Thoughts?

political hacks shouldn't pretend to be doctors with MD at the end of their names.

It's an insult to the vast effort it takes to become one.

and fucking every citizen over b/c some people are to dumb or lazy to get hc is tyranny.

fucking shit pile.

You are a dick.

My guess is that the "MD" means Maryland.

Either way, you are are dick.

 

[candycorn]

When polled Americans believe we are heading down the wrong path...............

When polled Americans rate our current Congress very very low. I even saw one poll that compared them to lice. And some polled said they could get rid of lice, but not Gov't.

The country has simply had it with our own Gov't. All of them. They now longer trust any of them and go to the polls hoping to elect the one that will do the least damage.

We have lawmakers on both sides who vote for bills they do not read.

We have bills that are "all or nothing" so lawmakers have learned to insert poison pills to kill what they don't want to pass or pull shit like Boehner and Reid are pulling; if they think there may be a chance that their Party will be embarrassed by the outcome of a vote; they won't have a vote.

I called for the dissolution of the Senate. I believe that we do not need it in this day and age.

 

[Antares]

Whatever our political preferences are, don't we all care about every American having healthcare and living a decent life? Perhaps the ACA isn't the best solution, but neither is refusing to help. Thoughts?

political hacks shouldn't pretend to be doctors with MD at the end of their names.

It's an insult to the vast effort it takes to become one.

and fucking every citizen over b/c some people are to dumb or lazy to get hc is tyranny.

fucking shit pile.

You are a dick.

My guess is that the "MD" means Maryland.

Either way, you are are dick.

Projection kid.

 

[alan1]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Yeah, "provide for the common defence", "To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;" "To provide and maintain a Navy;", "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;" and "promote the general Welfare".

Read it here

Here's the actual text....

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

Questions or comments?

This,

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

I'm not seeing healthcare (or health insurance) as a "provide".
But lets suppose that they are, if they are "uniform", that I am not responsible for the healthcare of another, am I?

 

[Pop23]

Whatever our political preferences are, don't we all care about every American having healthcare and living a decent life? Perhaps the ACA isn't the best solution, but neither is refusing to help. Thoughts?

One thing we can all agree on is that our Nations Government should NEVER force it's citizens to buy a product.

 

[Vox]

Whatever our political preferences are, don't we all care about every American having healthcare and living a decent life? Perhaps the ACA isn't the best solution, but neither is refusing to help. Thoughts?

political hacks shouldn't pretend to be doctors with MD at the end of their names.

It's an insult to the vast effort it takes to become one.

and fucking every citizen over b/c some people are to dumb or lazy to get hc is tyranny.

fucking shit pile.

You are a dick.

My guess is that the "MD" means Maryland.

Either way, you are are dick.

I found something I can agree with you

 

[Flopper]

Whatever our political preferences are, don't we all care about every American having healthcare and living a decent life? Perhaps the ACA isn't the best solution, but neither is refusing to help. Thoughts?

A good question, however there are many that just can't see the forest for the trees. They are so concerned about some people getting financial assistance from the government, that they can't see the value of universal healthcare coverage to the nation.

They ignore the fact that illness in the workforce cost $576 billion a year. Inoculations for communicable disease which are free under the ACA could prevent the spread of disease that effects all of us. Tens of thousands of deaths each year from cancer and heart disease could be prevented by early diagnosis and treatment. They ignore the fact that better health begins with accessible healthcare and better healthcare improves all of our lives.

 

[Vox]

Inoculations for communicable disease which are free under the ACA

one of the myths lying left is spreading around.

the way they are "free" under obamacare they have been free at least 40 years.